There were a number of things that disappointed me in this article in the Manassas Journal Messenger, including a huge mistake in misquoting Chief Deane. But this part disappointed me, puzzled me, and pissed me off. The writer editorializes that 9500 Liberty,
works to demonize board Chairman Corey Stewart, R-at large, who was running for re-election in 2007 when he and Supervisor John T. Stirrup, R-Gainesville, pushed to pass the resolution.
I’m not sure what the writer was thinking when he added this perspective to what is supposed to be a straight news article. First of all, there is no call for using such a strong word. Second of all, the film does not “work” to do anything other than show Chairman Stewart being very good at what he does. If you like the idea of immigration culture wars dividing your community right before an election, Corey is no demon in this film, he’s a saint. No one in the film criticizes him. No one who spoke after the film directly criticized him. In fact, his name didn’t even come up. I was among a number of audience members who were shocked that certain of the Chairman’s most dastardly deeds were NOT included in the film. I wasn’t going to respond to the comment other than to say I agreed, but this was posted yesterday by Last Best Hope:
Billed as a film that “makes Corey Stewart look like an idiot” (this was the big quote in a MJM article from someone who got a sneak preview), the film revealed nothing I did not already know about him, while omitting many of the things he did to make himself look, if not idiotic, at least unhinged. There was nothing about Stewart instantaneously forwarding internal BOCS emails to Greg Letiecq so that the Letiecq Internet Frenzy machine could be used to bully the Board into firing Chief Deane. That was Stewart’s lowest moment and a glaring omission from the film. Stewart’s second lowest moment, or most brilliant depending on your agenda, was using county funds to send out a political post card during his “fighting illegal immigration” reelection campaign setting up the circus act BOCS meeting in Oct. 2007. While this is 10 times more predictable, it was also 10 times more infamous and more discussed at the time. I was looking forward to seeing Maureen Caddigan’s brilliant move to hold the Chairman’s feet to the fire when he tried to limit the very people he invited to participate to only one minute at the podium. I believe Stewart lost the vote 6 to 2, and the result was 12 hours of Citizens’ Time to delay a vote that was already decided before they showed up. But this was skipped as well.
Last Best Hope concludes by saying, “Basically Stewart is not in the film other than Board meetings, and I’m not sure this alone makes him look like an idiot.” I could not agree more. If anything, the film was soft on Corey Stewart, considering how it should, or could have been made. Much was left out that could follow Corey politically.
Speaking of soft pedaling, I thought the film went too easy on Mr. Fernandez as well. Most people I have talked to say that his sign hurt the Hispanic community more than helped it, by handing Greg Letiecq a perfect gift with which to demonize (here is where the word is apt) the Hispanic community. Greg got more mileage out of that sign. He signed up more people because of it than he ever would have with his laughably manipulative pictures of men with ski-masks holding machine guns.
The voice over in the film criticizes the wording of the third sign, which was over-the-top offensive, but only because the inflammatory language could endanger his kids. A fair point, but it did more than endanger kids, it pissed a lot of people off, of all races, who might not otherwise have been that critical of the sign. Fernandez insulted the very people who were actually trying to help; the coalition of people who were working to fight back the powers of darkness ended up being included in the broad-brush insult.
Since I noticed that the blog has changed very little in its venom, I think I will go back to hibernating.
Peace Out!
@Posting As Pinko
I think it’s fitting you should be aware people in my district were being ignored before the resolution was introduced. There was real criminal activity happening right on my street, murders and rapes of kids in the neighborhoods abutting WestGate. I’ve NEVER thought that a hispanic’s yard overgrown equated to being illegal. I saw many of my neighbors at the Coverstone 7-11 looking for work on a daily basis, and these same “fine” individuals continued to squat in their house that had been foreclosed for two months.
Why should someone NOT be deported if they broke the law by coming here illegal and then go on to commit crimes in our communities. Clearly, there’s an illegal alien population here. One has to look no further the numbers of the ADC and the number illegal aliens that have been “checked-into” to the “community hotel”? I’m sorry, I simply do not believe in rewarding illegal behavior.
Sorry GR, I missed seeing that. I got up very late this morning because I sat up until 5 am reading how to fix our software problem. I skimmed, to catch up. Actually, I am just catching up now. It has taken me all day long. But yes, you did comment on the sign.
We have never taken a position on the sign. I am not saying individuals have not said yea or nay but the admins here have never said good, bad, or indifferent regarding it from the blog perspective. I know I have been an outspoken pain in the ass on the subject but I hope everyone knew I was speaking as an individual rather than as an admin, when I did so.
@A PW County Resident
Heh heh. Good choice of words, PWCR.
If I had to, I could go back and find every apology I made to GR but I really don’t have the time. In fact, I even emailed MH at one point because I was so exasperated he wouldn’t accept my apology!
Anyway, in case you missed it everyone, I AM SORRY GR I MISINTERPRETED YOUR MESSAGE AND MISTOOK YOU FOR A HATEFUL HSM MEMBER. It’s easy to do online because you see those trigger words, the ones HSM leaders love to use, and POOF! You sound like a GL clone.
Think of it this way: what if I started touting communes? What image would you get of me? What kind of group would you think I belonged to? I can hear “pot-smoking-hippie” ready to erupt.
Anyway, the reason I am so worked up again is that I saw the movie and it brought me back to those moments of complete injustice during which the worst parts of human behavior managed to hijack our local government. That’s why I can’t watch movies like that. I get too pissed off. It’s enough to have lived it once. As much as I think the movie is important, I personally don’t want to re-live it.
@Lafayette
Lafayette, I know there were real problems and those problems needed to be addressed. Because they weren’t, someone like GL was able to gain control. That’s what happens when our government is ineffective–the brutes take over.
If I had my way, every violent criminal in the nation would be deported. And not just illegals. I say let’s use Siberia.
Hard working families wanting to escape poverty? That’s something else. We need to work with these folks, IMO.
I have just visited this site after a little break, so I just barely skimmed these comments. However, I something did catch my eye that I wanted to address.
I don’t feel that accusing someone of racism is in any way equivalent to calling someone a cockroach. Racism, as a form of prejudice, is very real and widespread human condition. Calling someone a cockroach dehumanizes a person.
Maybe I’m just quibbling, but I had to say it:)
@Diversity Gal
Thanks, DG, for your insight. When you call someone a cockroach and talk about using violence against those same people, you are saying you want those people exterminated–like roaches. Never mind the people who have said, “Gas them all” about the undocumented.
Where is anyone saying they want to reward illegal behavior?
I don’t think anyone on this blog has groused about 287g or putting criminals, regardless of status, in jail. (well I can think of one…. but that individual is no longer with us)
I know I have not been very attentive today but where is this coming from?
A Prince William Resident, I believe that it was either Elena, Alanna or me who was referred to as being a sassy lady–and none of us have spat venom today…but the day isn’t over.
I can see you haven’t changed much either. You come here, read a few lines, and pass judgement on everyone. Why are people rehashing history? Check the Post Topic. That’s the first clue. We are discussing, often with great vim and vigor, what happened in our area during the past 2 years and 3 months. Come for another visit when you aren’t so critical of our contributors.
DG, I see your point, but to call some one a racist is quite damning and should NOT be said without some serious cause. The word racists is thrown around way to often and eventually very well loose it’s real intented defintion. We all have prejudices of some sort if we’re honest, but racism I feel very differently about.
The problem with using ‘racism’ in discussion, however, is that it shuts down productive discussion. It is also a judgement call in many cases.
The problem with calling others cockroaches is…well…I think we all get that.
@Moon-howler
I didn’t say anyone wanted to reward illegal behavior. I was merely stating MY opinion. Please, don’t act as if I were accusing anyone of anything.
Actually, I was speaking about individual posters, rather than the “blog” as a whole. The only time I refer to the blog (or I try to make it distinguishable as such) is when I’m referring to a thread posted on the blog.
@Lafayette I spent a couple of weeks in England this summer. Our B&B hosts expressed a lot of angst over illegal immigrants and the burden they place on public services, including the NHS (some very interesting perspectives on nationalized healthcare, as well). They echoed many of the same concerns we have here over illegal immigration issues.
What do you suppose the racial makeup was of the people my hosts were concerned about?
I am still waiting for Urien Kiser to post that he really was at the film in costume and that is why no one recognized him.
GR is very lucky not to have hoof prints all over him. Deer are very dangerous, especially this time of year.
Who’s Urien Kiser?
However, when one continues after apologizing to engage in the same behavior – accusing people of being racist who are not – I fail to think the apology was sincere. Also, in your apology you completely misquoted and mischaracterized my original post here – even when presented with evidence to the contrary that proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that post was harmless and should not have been responded to with the venemous response that followed. Whatever, when history is rewritten to make things sound different, to justify what was said in response, I don’t find that so sincere. Anyway, your actions since seem to show you’ve not learned much in terms of what you are saying that is so offensive. Anyone like I who knows people who lost entire families in the Holocaust, would not take kindly on comparing that to what’s going on in PWC. I know (or knew – he has since died) one person who just barely escaped being loaded on one of those trains to the concentration camp, from which there was no return. Unfortunately, the rest of his family was not nearly so lucky. He actually was a distant relative on my father’s mother side – but distant enough I can’t really call him a relative as it was a cousin’s cousin of my grandmother. Still, I just find the whole comparison offensive, and will continue to do so every time it is brought up – as it was just a month or so ago.
I’m almost afraid to answer that question in fear of being accused of singling any one group out. 😉 I’m very interested in the answer though.
@Moon-howler
My hood has paint scratches that I’m sure are due to the hoofs and are spaced well enough apart from each other that would appear to be about the right distance between a left foot and a right foot.
I’ll also ask – who exactly is “Urien Kiser”. Not a name I’ve ever seen refrenced here that I can remember – I must have missed something there.
I’ll take another tact here – the term racist has been used so much here as to be rendered useless. The Holocaust discussion has desensitized everyone to the horror of what really happened there. And the other term has also been rendered completely meaningless, since so many people have been accused of being in that political group that caused all the problems in WWII. All are very strong terms to use, and should not be bandied about carelessly, as has been done way too often by anyone’s even most conservative estimate of how many times they’ve been invoked. Kind of like the boy who cried wolf, after awhile one starts to not listen to any reasonable argument that person is trying to make.
I’ve read that France has a big problem with illegal immigrants and is taking a very hard line approach with them. It is not just a problem here in the USA by any means. In all places, it causes a drain on various aspects of the economy, social services, etc.
BTW, Elena, the term I-talian (or “Eye-talian”) is actually considered derogatory. Does the lack of brown skin make that expression somehow ok with you?
@Lafayette
Other Europeans, particularly Poles, many of whom are English-speaking.
@Gainesville Resident
I’m referencing my own post – another point I’d like to make – similar to the way not living day to day next to an overcrowded house makes those who haven’t experienced it not fully able to know how bad it is. I would say unless you know someone personally (friend of the family or relative) who lost family in the Holocaust – you can not fully comprehend how distasteful a comparison of it to the events in PWC is. I am sure the person I knew would be spinning in his grave if he read the comparisons I’ve read, as would any other Holocaust survivors or friends or relatives of Holocaust survivors. And statements that “it could happen here” are nonsense. No, it couldn’t. There would have to be a huge sea change in a whole lot of things (government, the police, etc.) for something like that to happen here in PWC. Or again, are we starting to say we don’t trust our own police department, which I thought was very deservedly praised here most times for the professionalism. Apparently in some quarters we don’t trust them that much.
Thanks, Emma. That doesn’t surprise me. I think immigration is a global problem, and not all countries are ready to enforce strong immigration laws. I like GR have read about France’s immigration woes.
@Emma Yes, that is a point I was not very articulate at trying to make. Quite often dissenters on here are treated as a monolithic block. Even recently I can’t count the times someone said “start thinking for yourself and not letting Greg put ideas in your head”. Just as some of us (and not correctly) are accused of treating the Hispanics or illegal aliens as a monolithic block – we are treated that way too – and the idea that we are unable to think for ourselves is obviously meant as some kind of insult. In fact, I myself didn’t even know who Greg was until I saw this blog – and had already formulated my own ideas about the whole resolution issue before coming on this blog. Most interestingly, I stumbled on this blog first – although I know some posters here tried to rewrite history and claimed I was a bvbl poster before coming on here – something that I found amusing for the lack of truth those statements contained. Actually, much assumptions are made – and quite often those assumptions have been proven to be categorically untrue. Of course, we all know what happens when people assume things….
@Gainesville Resident
Deer vs. Hybrid?? Hope you’re OK!
Emma, she was being facetious. I did the same thing imitating the woman who told Sen. McCain the Obama was an A-rab.
I am looking for a video for you, Emma. It is to your UK point. I have posted it here before.
Laf, I didn’t say you did whatever, I just wondered where it was coming from…what brought it up. I was attempting to fit it into the flow of the thread. That’s all.
Thanks for the concern – I’m fine. I guess any accident you can walk away from unscathed is a good one, and I definitely considered myself lucky in that respect. It could have been much much worse. The deer and the hybrid – unfortunately both didn’t fare too well obviously. The deer didn’t survive, which probably was a good thing for it, I think, given its injuries.
@Moon-howler
Sorry, there Moon. I have been on this thread all day and it’s getting exhausting. I don’t envey you trying to fit in the flow of this thread. This has to be one of the most commented on a threads on here. Isn’t it?
It is a global problem, and a bigger problem is how any country can protect and secure all its borders. Not an easy one at all – especially for countries with land borders similar to ours with Mexico.
It seems to be still quite PC to depict Italians as ignorant, loudmouthed gavones on TV shows, commercials and movies. They seem to be the last remaining group that can be stereotyped with abandon.
One last comment about the deer – I heard that 50% of the deer accidents occur in October and November. Everyone needs to be careful out there – take that as a lesson from what happened to me. Although, in this case it happened so fast without any warning, no time to even formulate the thought of braking, let alone take foot off gas pedal. Still, if someone manages to avoid hitting a deer, it will have done some good.
Either that or the Mafia. I remember plenty of protests over The Sopranos on HBO while it was airing. Indeed, there does seem to be a lot of stereotyping of them on TV.
GR, I am going to go out on a limb here…I think any time the admins have referenced ideas having to do with the Holocaust, it has been in the spirit of how that was allowed to happen. What happened first? People were belittled and dehumanized. An atmosphere was created where it was socially acceptable to laugh at another group of people.
I don’t think Elena, Alanna or I have ever said that county representatives were N-like or H-like. I think we have all agreed that the elements listed above are the beginning of a social climate where the Holocaust or pogroms, or other horrific events against others can exist and spring to life, grow and flourish. I don’t think the recognition of that fact would offend anyone or the memory of anyone.
We attempted to have a non-censored blog. That was a lofty endeavor. It didn’t last long. But we did give it a chance. Many people made comments here that I didn’t particularly like. In fact, some still do. Some of the comments are from good friends. That’s just life on a blog.
Then again, Bernie Madoff didn’t do the Jewish people any favors – I saw some rather negative press regarding Jews in the aftermath of that – in fairly mainstream media.
MH – I don’t know – before today I never had seen that SS thread another poster referenced. I have to say, that thread is a bit over the top – even with a nice German title! And, I know you, Elena, and Alanna never made the specific remark I’m referring to. Although at the time there was a distinct lack of outrage on that remark. Silence sometimes speaks volumes. There’s usually instant outrage at remarks the other side makes on here, some of which were a whole lot less outrageous than that remark I referred to a bunch of posts ago. Whatever, but actually that SS thread to me is a little bit more than outrageous, and was posted by one of the admins on the blog, obviously.
Actually, people still think nothing about making nasty comments about arabs, Indians, Middle Easterners, southerners all being rednecks or West Virginians all being hillbillies. No one thinks anything of it….unless they are one of those groups.
“Come for another visit when you aren’t so critical of our contributors.” Actually if you are talking about my comments about PAP, I wasn’t being critical. I actually thought I was pretty complimentary. I just said that I thought she was talking about another thread because I didn’t see it. She seemed to confirm it. Certainly your aren’t talking about pillar of astuteness? That is certainly a slam I guess. I thought it said that she was a pillar of astuteness. Maybe if I said something bad about her, it would be taken as a compliment? Is that how it works?
She and I had an exchange some time ago really early on and when the misunderstanding was cleared up, I think she and I felt that we could communicate with each other.
But because I read the blog without commenting taking up space makes me a “drive-by” in your worldview? Is that what you are saying??
I think it is really unfortunate that one can be criticized for not jumping into a fray on every other post, but reads intently and formulates an opinion after reviewing all sides. It is a refreshing way to discuss issues for some of us. Not for you, I guess?
GR, if the person was a regular, we usually spoke individually to them. Some people there was no way to get hold of them. Furthermore, I have gotten much less tolerant since the early days. I think we all have.
Again, let’s just say you can’t have the same perspective about what is offensive pertaining to Holocaust comparisons, as someone who personally knows (or knew) someone directly affected by the Holocaust. Actually, on my mother’s side of the family, my grandmother spoke of fleeing Russian pogroms and of bullets flying over their heads. Of course, no one has tried to compare Russian pogroms to what has happened here – probably only because they are not as well known as the Holocaust. Perhaps I have too much personal knowledge of events similar to the Holocaust as told by my own relatives, to not be able to view comparisons of it to events here with the same dispassionate degree that others can.
And that makes it okay? As one of Italian descent, I noted the comment but chose not to challenge it. Why was Italian singled out? Maybe we can repeat all of the ethnic slurs about immigrants since they are the only ones that get offended. Nice argument.
Fair enough – there may have been some behind the scenes admonishment I wouldn’t have been aware of, given that.
Country resident, I think you were taking jabs. I addressed those jabs. If you weren’t not being unflattering, then I humbly apologize. Perhaps you might want to reword your comments.
So that makes Elena’s slur OK? Interesting that only Italians were singled out.
Those who got too out of line and who we felt detracted from the main theme of the blog were removed from the community if we were not able to effect change.
Most people here now contribute a great deal to the blog, even if not everyone agrees all the time.
I just wonder about the strategy for the handful of Corey Stewart defenders left on the internets, who think the best way to defend him is to attack the blog admins. Corey Stewart is the highest ranking public official in the county. This is only a blog. If you can’t defend his actions in good conscience, then you should admit as much and move on to another topic.
Maybe some may want to read and not react as well.
Since that is the first time you kinda apologized, I kinda humbly accept.
And by the way, the way I have been treated by some on here, I think I have the right to say that their response to me are unacceptable to me and displays bad behavior.
When I say something and offend people, I quickly apologize. It isn’t the norm here.
Those making the slurs usually don’t think anything about it. And those in the group being slurred obviously care a great deal. That’s how it works. It still is indeed acceptable to make all kinds of jokes about various ethnicities – I remember for example hearing tons of jokes about Polish people which painted them as being not smart, and for some reason were considered acceptable. I’m sure they were plenty offensive to Polish people. That sort of stuff still seems acceptable conversation unfortunately.
Emma, what is your problem? Do you want me to go in there and correct the typo? How come you didn’t pick at me over A-rab?
Is Elena the only one who is not allowed to make fun of ignorance? You do understand she was mimicking ignorance don’t you?