The House of Representatives passed health care reform by a vote of 220-215 around 11 pm. The bill contains language that prohibits federal funds for abortion services in the public option and in the so-called insurance “exchange” the bill would create. Details to follow.
Open thread on health care reform legislation.
Joseph Cao’s wikipedia entry got REALLY funny for a minute after he cast his vote. They changed it right away but it was up for a little while.
A win is a win, no matter how close it was!
well what did the entry say?
Entertain me. SNL is getting lame.
Is it just me or what? I don’t know how I feel about it. I have no clue what it says.
Well, for starters it looks as if poor and low and even moderate income women will be denied medically necessary abortions unless they have money to pay for them. A huge step backwards. The Democrats are busy giving away every worthwhile feature to their corporate donors and to the extreme right wing just to get something passed. It will help some people some of the time, so that part is good. But it is not a solution to our health care mess–not by a long shot.
M-H, how do I find out how Congressman Connelly voted? I tried to look it up but couldn’t figure it out. The lunatic right wing fringe tried to intimidate him, I know that much. I hope it didn’t work. I’m tired of seeing people in government intimidated by (or in our case joining) the lunatic right wing fringe.
Anyway, I’m happy that Americans will benefit from this victory. Only one of three legs, but it will force the Senate to act. If the Republicans would rather see America fail than Obama succeed, let them filibuster. I mean really filibuster, for hours on end like in Mr. Smith Goes to Washington.
Virginia’s delegation voted:
Boucher – N
Cantor – N
Connolly – Y
Forbes -N
Goodlatte -N
Moran – Y
Nye – N
Perriello – Y
Scott – Y
Wittman – N
Wolf – N
The biggest surprise is Perriello. Most people expected him to be a No vote because of his district. Perriello is gone in 2010, no question about it. In 2010, he won’t get the UVa bump that got him in by .2% in 2008. When you are a freshman Congressman who won by 727 votes, it’s very, shall I say, gutsy to vote against what the majority of people in your district want.
I’ve already talked about Connolly’s prospects in another thread, but Moran and Scott were the only two that could safely vote for the measure. Connolly and Perriello were both going against the polls in their districts (or at least they were last time decent were done by CD in Virginia. Argh! Why was the Governor’s race such a blowout. Us quants could have at weekly polls by CD for another month or two.)
I believe this measure will create mass discontent if it gets passed by the Senate. The House could have passed modest measures supported by all Americans (tort reform, purchase of healthcare across state lines, prescription drug reimportation). Instead we end up with a 1200-page imperial dictate.
Just a WAG here, but my guess is that this will not do much for instilling a spirt of cooperation and civil discourse that Opinion was yearning for yesterday.
Has there ever been an American who does not have a law degree who has gotten rich from a class-action suit against a doctor or pharmaceutical company? Those settlements promise much but deliver little to the average guy, and line the pockets of the legal profession handsomely.
Has anyone ever read John Grisham’s “The King of Torts”? Granted, it’s a work of fiction, but it’s Grisham’s effort to skewer tort lawyers with a great deal of accuracy.
Leaving tort reform out of this bill is nothing short of criminal.
@Moon-howler
Here’s what Cao’s Wikipedia entry looked like for about two minutes last night. Wikipedia staff fixed it quick and locked the page, but it was funny!
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/8c134a2808.jpg
I found particularly interesting the venom online aimed at the 46 Democrats that crossed the aisle to vote against this abomination. It was the kind of stuff the left would have everyone believe only happens on the right with Republicans.
Here’s a health care horror story Obama should have taken on the campaign trail with him:
http://www.sphere.com/2009/11/06/woman-reveals-health-horror-my-vagina-fell-out/?icid=main|main|dl1|link7|http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sphere.com%2F2009%2F11%2F06%2Fwoman-reveals-health-horror-my-vagina-fell-out%2F
Justin Connolly voted yes. Here is the roll call:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_house_rollcall_health_care
I just learned how to use this: HERE’S the health care horror story Obama and Pelosi should have used!
http://tinyurl.com/ybgqjbx
I have no idea how I feel about any of this. I don’t know what is politics and what is genuine concern. I don’t know what are good points or bad points. I don’t know what the points are even.
As for torte reform, I don’t know how I feel about that either. I know there is abuse but then you see someone who has lost total quality of life because of medical stupidity.
I am sitting back and withholding judgement. I certainly wouldn’t want to take back Medicare or Social security.
I would love to understand this bill without having to think about abortion in it. That muddles the works up.
Slow, is that like being hatched out of a buzzard egg?
Formerly, where are the polls that you mention? I was not aware of polls being taken on health care. How do people know enough to even answer a poll.
It would depend on what you are asked I would think. Tell more.
Perriello has a huge district, mileage wise. He is definitely the preppie.
Formerly Anon and M-H, thanks for the info. I must be turning into a political junky. I woke up and checked to see if anyone answered.
F-A, I don’t agree with you that it was a bad move for the freshman Democrats to vote for it. I’m really proud that my Rep. did. I think the majority of the opposition to affordable health care is simply partisanship. It’s the same kind of crap that made Bill Clinton’s sex life more important than national security for all those years. Some of these right wing partisans just don’t want the country to succeed if the President is a democrat.
I mean, get real. McCain also promised to deal with the health care crisis. Yep, he sure as F did. If McCain had won, the vote would have been 420 to 15 in favor. The only people who would have voted no on this are people who maybe agree with Franceas about abortion rights. But yeah, the bill would haved passed because no one would have been looking for McCain’s “Watgerloo.”
And quit trying to pretend “the majority” of people oppose this. That is such BS when every poll shows the opposite. You call it “the majority” just because Dick Armey’s lobbying firm and Fox News scared a bunch of gullible old cranks into making fools of themselves on TV. That’s not a majority. That’s a desperation tactic. If McCain had won and a bunch of hippies and Black Panthers showed up on Capitol Hill to compare his policy proposals to the death camps, do you think anyone would say that represents the majority?
Give me a break.
Oh. And here is another thing. I didn’t vote last Tuesday and I am a young Democrat who didn’t start voting until my mid-20’s. I meant to vote but I didn’t manage to because of work. So I’m in that demographic that decided the race by not showing up. It wasn’t just because Obama wasn’t on the ticket. It was because Democrats in general aren’t showing any guts like Connolly and Perriello did last night. If the vote had been before the 2009 election, I probably would have made the time. But when I see Democrats and Republicans both cowering just because a mob of idiots believes in “death panels,” I just get fed up and don’t care anymore.
It’s the right move for the Democrats to stand up to the mob. They need to show some G.D. balls if they want to hold on to their seats.
All I said was that the majority of people in Connolly and especially Perriello’s districts were opposed to the health care bill. I’m not even saying if the bill is a good thing or not or what their opposition is based on. I’m simply pointing out that it was very politically risky for Connolly and was virtual career suicide for Perriello.
I’ll see what I can find for links to the crosstabs broken down by district on health care. Usually that data isn’t put out to the public for free. If I can find a public link, I’ll post it. I agree that poll questions can lead answers, but there is spread of less than 10 points nation-wide, so it shouldn’t be shocking that there’s a significant variation in certain congressional districts.
In particular, let’s look at VA-5, which McCain carried by 3 points and Bush carried in 2004 by 13. That makes it pretty safe to count it as a traditional Republican leaning district. Is it surprising to you that the majority of people in a traditional Republican district would be opposed to the health care bill?
Perriello got elected because of a tidal wave of UVa voters that got him just enough to win the seat. I don’t have crosstabs for VA-5 for last Tuesdays election at home, but it’s pretty safe to say it went to McDonnell by a very wide margin. (the middle part of the state was about 2:1 McDonnell.) Nobody is expecting a huge young voter turnout in 2010. 2008 was a fluke because of Obama being on the ticket. Heck, JustinT, you proved the point. You weren’t fired up enough to vote in last week’s election. Do you think Republican voters in VA-5 aren’t going to be fired up to vote against Perriello in November? If they aren’t, why not?
I don’t think the Democrats are going to loose a majority in the House in 2010, but everyone concedes that there are vulnerable freshman Democrats in Congress and Perriello just put himself near the top of that list.
Formerly, I am trying to figure out how the UVA vote was so influential. Aren’t most people registered to vote in their own home districts?
Justin, you needed to vote absentee to go on a dayy off and vote early. If you don’t vote, it invalidates your opinion somewhat.
And now for the flames, I am totally disgusted that the Catholic Bishops are able to exercise so much political control. I don’t even want to hear that I am Catholic bashing. I am not. I don’t care what religion they are. I see it as undo influence and very much the mixing of church and state affairs.
Time to give to the Reverend Barry Lynn’s group again.
Hand out stuff to people, and they stay home for the most part, fat, DUMB, and happy. Now people who are angry, motivated, and far more intelligent, they show up at the polls and vote, because they know that is the only thing that really matters. So next year, what’s going to get the radical left motivated to get to the polls? Made sense last year, because they felt they were being a part of history, and Bush was still fresh in their minds. No matter how badly the Obama administration wants to blame Bush for all of their failings, it’s getting older and less believable by the day. It won’t be fresh in their minds anymore, and there won’t be any “historical moment” to be a part of. They’ll be fat, dumb, and happy at home. It won’t be as lop-sided as this year, but you know, underneath all the liberal diarrhea in your head that we’re gonna show up. How are you going to stop it? Tell me, oh wise one! Tell me the democrats will control the nation forever 🙂 Tell me the Republicans don’t matter anymore! This is gonna be fun!
F-A and M-H, those are all great points. I know I shod have voted but not voting is a vote in a way, I own up to that. My point is that young voters and minoritues will not be motivated unless someone shows a willingness to stand up to the hate.
Look, the bug-eyed and screaming retirees who are against public health option are deceived. They don’t even realize that they already have public health care. They believe what they are told and then go scream what they are told.
We look at that and say, what the F? Why can’t a reasonable politician stand up to that S? If they do, we’d have more reason to vote. It would mean they are standing up for us. We’re the ones who don’t have insurance. We’re getting by on the chance nothing happens to us. We know if we pay the high premiums we’ll get dropped if we get sick, so we say screw it. We want that to change, but these old people who already are covered get all the attention. So if we feel ignored, we don’t find the time to go vote, and the insurance industry lobby who spooked all the old people wins. Republicans win too. So I say the Democrats are smart to stand up to the idiot mob.
They are motivated by partisanship, hate, and irrational manufactured fear. We are not as motivated even though we have more at stake? Why? Cause no one is showing any guts and standing up for us. Until last night.
My sister has been an RN for over twenty years and my brother built an
engineering company from one small office to one with over two dozen offices
around the world. They are smart highly educated people ( then there is
me, another story). Between them, they have far more medical and financial
knowledge than most folks, but they have spent weeks trying to help
our Mother with understanding medicare program choices and are still
confounded. Every member of Congress should have to fill out their own
taxes AND apply for insurance like folks on Medicare.
If you want to buy a new Honda you can go on their website and “build
and cost your vehicle” in minutes. If they were like the feds, it would take
months and you would end up with a million dollar donkey cart.
The new health insurance program, might have merit for some, but know
it will be lobbyist driven, expensive to taxpayers and CONFUSING.
I
Formerly, isn’t Liberty University in Perriello’s district?
Justin, if you feel strongly, then join up with the Democrats. If you live in Prince William County I can assure you, they need your help. They aren’t a strong party locally. They are stronger in the City actually. There are other organizations you can hook up with also and host meet ups etc. Is there something you are particularly interested in? Contact a group that specializes in that special interest and ask about grass roots initiatives and meet ups. Just bitching on a blog probably is probably not the most productive thing you can do to satisfy your political needs.
Look, all’s I’m saying is the Democrats want us to vote, cool. We did. Then the 2 percent of the country that makes up the tea party loons on TV said “hey we don’t like the results of that election.”
So the Democrats and Obama with them said, “Oh no, these people have guns, they’re threating to leave the union, they hold signs that show how seriously insane they are” and everything went to hell. As voters we look at that and say, “why bother.”
We showed you the vote last year Democrats. Show us some courage. It’s a two way street. Stop being afraid of the 2 percent lunatics and maybe we will be more inclinded to vote as often as the old folks. If you don’t grow some, then we won’t feel like voting or joining the party or volunteering.
But I really did intend to vote. Sorry that I didn’t.
PR, I haven’t decided who the monster is with Medicare. I have helped family members make Medicare choices for gap and rx and I felt like ripping my hair out. It is simply horrible. The problem is number of choices and the finer points of each. Every company wants a piece of the action. The problem seems to be which mouse trap is better for which medicare recipient.
No wonder it took 2000 pages to pass this bill. I feel the Medicare might be fairer to the providers than the providees.
Justin, what happened in the 2008 election is not what happened in 2009. The very fact that so many folks (and I am sure they all each had good reasons) didnt vote had a great deal to do with what happened in the Virginia elections.
Voting isn’t just an event. We call it the ‘election cycle’ for a reason. It happens ever yearl Things change. People change, People re-energize. Those Democrats who were elected last year had better not rest on their laurels.
The 2 % you are talking about isn’t 2%. I think you left off a zero and even that is a conservative estimate. There seem to be a lot of people associating with the Tea Party.
The important thing to keep in mind is that for every person who can take off work and/or put their lives on hold to show up at a tea party, there’s five more that feel the same way, and vote the same way, but can’t take off work or get away from other obligations to show up at a tea party.
M-H, you are right about Medicare Gap and RX plans – dozens of choices
and very little unbiased clear information plus, after all that, finding
a Dr. that takes Medicare is becoming far more difficult. This
health “plan” can make you sick.
Poor Richard, this time of year is even harder for a new patient to find a doctor who will take medicare patients. Most have their quota for the year. Patients either have to have an ‘in’ or they will have to wait until January. I never quite understood that but it was sure a problem when I moved my mother up here in November.
Slowpoke, I think you are probably right. I am not sure your numbers are right but that is sort of nebulous also. I don’t see that as a good thing, but I do see it as a reality.
I singled out UVa because Charlottesville was Perriello’s best performing region by far. Perriello got 15,909 votes (80.83% of voters) there. His next best performing area was at 63.30%. There was a massive voter turnout effort at UVa in 2008 that included re-registering students from ‘safe’ states like California to vote in Virginia. It worked well for Perriello in 2008, but he’s going to have a difficult time keeping his seat when voter turnout dropped from 70.17% in 2008 to 38.72% in 2009. It’ll be up some in 2010 for certain, but it’s not going to be 70% and when your margin of victory was only 727 votes, you need a high voter turnout. (Liberty University is certainly a factor in VA-5 elections but it’s smaller and more predictable. There was not as big a surge in turnout in Lynchburg.)
As for the Catholic Bishops involvement in political issues, I take it that people who want the Bishops out of the health care debate also would like the Catholic Church to be silent on immigration? Perhaps 9500 Liberty should find another screening location?
@JustinT
to see how Representatives voted go to:
http://www.boncherry.com/blog/2009/11/08/house-of-representatives-vote-results-who-voted-for-health-care-bill/
McDonnell says he will “opt out” of the public option if the legislation finally passes and becomes law. It will be interesting to see what he does.
Formerly, I just read something about Liberty crowing about getting out the vote this year and doing some altering of turn out. Maybe they learned from last year.
As for the Catholic bishops…I see a big difference in feeding the poor and influencing American policy and politics. I don’t think that the Catholic Church should be attempting to influence policy on immigration either. (or any other church) 9500 documents the Immigration issue in Prince William County. I don’t see the connection between it and the bully pulpit of the Catholic Bishops.
The Catholic Church, the Methodist Church, the Episcopalian Church, all of them are welcome to show 9500 Liberty or Silent Scream for all I care.
Churches are always free to tell their own parishioners how to behave. It is when they try to take their morals and dogma and turn them into policy and laws for the rest of us that I rise up in outrage.
Elena, so it begins.
What exactly does that mean? Would that mean that uninsured Virginians would not be able to have health care? I guess we pay for everyone else’s except for Virginians.
What ever happened to the legislature? Has McDonnell forgotten already that he was elected governor for 4 years, not king. Does he care what most Virginians want?
This is extremely snort-worthy.
Last I heard, there is no opt-out, because even though you could opt-out of the benefits, you couldn’t opt-out of paying the increased taxes, so opt-out is nothing more than a sick joke. Oh, and while we’re talking about it…..doesn’t Barry Obamy realize he’s only President for 4 years, not King (or maximum leader, as it happens)?
@Moon-howler
What Virginians want…….you were looking for a worse beating than the one you got? Say, isn’t it time the Washington Post endorsed Deeds again?
Slow, he at least knows he has to have congress make the bills.
One thing I have learned over the years is that the pendulum swings.
I find it amusing that everyone is in an uproar and they don’t even know what is involved. I am rather offended that McDonnell says he will opt out of ‘public option.’
You are assuming you are in a majority on all of this slowpoke. I am assuming that people are feeling frustrated and angry because we are in a horrilbe recession. Unemployment is high and many people have lost half of what was in their 401ks. People in general feel insecure.
You are assuming it is a new political movement. I seriously doubt if it will last more than an election cycle. Then something new will come along.
And we all know nothing sparks an economy out of recession like billions and billions in unfunded mandates! It’s OK, we’ll just buy a few more money-printing presses! Ready for $400/gallon Milk?
What is your point? I am asking questions. How did you get to public option to $400 milk.
I just don’t think McDonnell has the right to say he will ‘opt out’ of the public option. That is a very premature statement to be making.
Additionally, I seriously doubt if that is a decision that 1 person can be making for an entire state.
I am going to work with a DC lobbying firm to recruit 20 percent of Redskins fans to have a tea party to protest the outcome of the game today.
I think the stuff about McDonnell is an overstatement of what he said. He did not appear to think he had absolute power to opt out but was stating his opinion.
“The morning after the House of Representatives narrowly passed a health-care bill, Virginia Gov.-elect Bob McDonnell said the ‘public option does not seem to be something that’s going to help us in Virginia’.“
“The health-care debate now shifts to the Senate, where a version of the legislation could allow states to opt in or opt out of the public option. McDonnell said on CNN, “Either way, my preference would be not to have Virginia participate, from what I know this plan contains’.“
Those quotes are from the News and Messenger. As governor, he will certainly have the authority to state his opinion and preference.
That is somewhat reassuring, Rez. I had heard him speak on cable earlier in the day but only had half an ear turned on.
Out of curiosity, why doesn’t he think that the public option would not help Virginians? Why doesn’t he want Virginians to participate? Would this be something he would have full control over?
Sure he can voice an opinion the same as the rest of us. I just don’t know why he would want to be voicing an opinon on something that right now is so up in the air and so vague.
One of my pet peeves for several months has been that people are flying off the handle over things they just think might be in a bill. I want to know some facts before I shoot off my big mouth on this subject.
7th Grade Economics.
A little too much doom and gloom for my taste.