The Manassas City Council voted Wednesday to spend $100,000 on the upcoming 150th anniversary of the First Battle of Manassas. The 150th anniversary of the first major engagement of the Civil War will take place around the week of July 21, 2011.
The City hopes to bring in revenue and position itself for long term tourism. Creston M. Owen, chairman of the board of Virginia Civil War Events Inc. plans to organize 9 days worth of events. He came before the board on Wednesday to ask for money.
According to the News and Messenger:
Owen’s outfit of volunteers is poised to begin organizing the nine-day commemoration that is set to include a Blue and Gray Ball at the Candy Factory, a re-enactment of the First Manassas, breakfast with the troops and concerts on the lawn of the Manassas Museum and at the Battlefield.
Owen told the council that it’s time to get started if the aim is to educate and attract the crowds that will generate income and put the area on the map.
“We’re only 18 months away. If we don’t start beating the drum now, we won’t get people here,” Owen told the council.
Owen has also met with the Prince William delegation of the Virginia General Assembly and hopes to get a million dollars from the state for this 9-day event. To date nothing has been heard publically about the Prince William County involvement in the commemoration of the sesquicentennial or about their plans to infuse money into this venture.
Already citizens are cheering for their home town. However, an equally strong set of boos are being heard because of the recession, extremely tight municiple budgets, and basically, a Tea Party mentality. Is this something that the local governments ought to be supporting or is this an event better handled by private enterprise?
“Is this something that the local governments ought to be supporting or is this an event better handled by private enterprize?”
Everyone should support it in partnership, and I’m glad to see people with vision taking the lead and being proactive. 18 months is not a long time – it goes very quickly when you’re planning an enormous event like this will be.
This is quite an undertaking for a small group of volunteers. It brings up quite a few questions. Is this not unlike the large infusion of tax dollars to aid the local economy that the federate government undertook earlier this year, i.e. a stimulus package? The recent election in Va. seemed to have a theme of fiscal conservatisim. Why no solicitation of public input before taxpayer money was committed? Is a small group of private citizens qualified to organize an event of this magnitude? With the City of Manassas commiting $100,000, PWC being asked for $250,000 and the State of Va. $1,000,000, who will be calling the shots?
These questions should be answered before public moneys are committted. Remember, PWC cut the school budget drastically last year. Manassas City layed off workers last year. The State of Va, is running a massive budget deficit currently. The benefits are potentially great, but if they are not realized as projected, we will be paying for a mistake for years to come. It’s and risk-reward scenario.
The questions this proposal brings up are too many to list at this time, but should be asked if we are to move foreward. I’m very concerned about the fact that this plan was conceived outside the public view,announced on Monday, then voted on by the City Council on Monday night with little or no input from local tax payers. I agree that 18 months is not a long time but a few more weeks to answer questions would not have hurt.
$100K is a small investment. I’m guessing they will more than make up for it with taxes and revenue generated for local businesses and publicity for Prince William and Virginia tourism over the long run. Even in tough times, you have to spend money to make money.
Ivan, while I understand and appreciate your comments about oversight; $100K just isn’t enough money to solicit public comment, etc. That would put an unnecessary overhead “tax” on an already small sum perhaps doubling the actual cost. We elect people to make decisions such as this. I say let them.
The recent Va state elections were all about public-private partnerships and the ability of state and local governments to multiply their limited resources through such agreements. Its much harder to do that for education – given the unions opposition to these agreements and charter schools or, say, in the police department, but, as I read this it is about a long term investment and recurring events that will bring more visitors to Manassas and the County. My sense is that there will be short term stimulus to the local restruant and hotel industry but as this thing goes out into the future and the seed money is long forgotten – the benefits will continue and expand to the construction and trade industry too , oh and to the Museum and the historical folks. Owen is going to need paid police support, fire/rescue support and other logistics. The web-site says they are committed to use “all proceeds” for historic preservation and education – which means we may not need public funds for some projects in the out years, if these events are successful. That would make this money cheap. Oversight yes, but do it. Ask Gettysburg if this is a bad idea economically. They have been doing it annually for years. There aree folks who know how to do this.
It’s like Jamestown 400 — the visitors are coming whether we plan anything or not. But they’re not going to stay and spend their money or look at Manassas/Prince William as a great place to live or relocate a business to if we have nothing to do once they get here.
This group wants to proactively orchestrate coordinated events, and from their Web site, I recognize the names on the board as people who have given a lot of their time to promote business opportunities in the city/county, and I’ve heard those names repeatedly in the 28 years I’ve lived here. I don’t think they’re going to take the $50,000 the Council advanced them and throw it out the window. They live here too, and are very invested in making our city/county a success.
If you don’t have a group like this, then you’re going to have a circus like the t-shirt and chocolate vendors outside the courthouse during one of Manassas’ other great tourist attractions.
I would love to see the group encourage CAPAC to bring back another production of Lawrence Dulin’s play about Jennie Dean. They performed it several times in 2006, and then they performed it at Harpers Ferry for a commemoration event of the 100th anniversary of the Niagara Movement. Several relatives of Ms. Dean were in attendance at the Manassas peformances.
Here’s a link to the presentation to the PWBOS called “Of the Students, By the Students, For the Students”. They show what the students did for Harper’s Ferry and their celebration of the 150th Anniversary.
http://pwcgov.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?view_id=2&clip_id=275
I really hope they get the grant money and partner with the county for this project. If this project moves forward they would also do the same for the Second Battle of Manassas. They are some requirements for the grant money based free/reduced lunches and Stonewall Middle would be the school to work on this project. The National Park Service will certainly be promoting the Anniversary, and they had a very postive responses to the Hollowed Ground project.
Last weekend while going through old stuff at my mom’s, I found a program in mint condition of the celebration of the 100th Anniversary. I’m going to start reading it this weekend. Needless to say being a Manassas native I was absolutely ecstatic with my historical find.
Those rascally acronyms again. What is CAPAC again?
I think it is definitely appropriate to ask about the private sector financing the venture in light of the Tea Party hysteria that has taken over the country. Much of the criticism has been about government doing things that the private sector should be doing.
Additionally, there is the county and the state that needs to kick in. Is there any such thing as a cost analysis floating about?
I think most of the grousing I have heard is because citizens feel they had no opportunity to give input.
I feel like I moved away for 20 years and just came back to the area. Cindy and Chris, can you provide us with a little background? Where does the student thing fit in?
Is there a separate 150th committee for the county, for the battlefield park, for the city?
Who is heading the student grant project? Too bad there are restrictions on who would get the grant tied to poverty. There is something about that stipulation that stinks.
Here’s CAPAC’s site: http://www.capacweb.org
Here’s more info on the student project: http://www.hallowedground.org
Here’s Creston Owen’s group: http://www.virginiacivilwarevents.org
Now, if I can just learn to say and spell ses-qui-cen-ten-nial.
Did it!
Gotta run – last minute stuff for the City’s Neighborhood Conference tomorrow. If anyone wants to help volunteer to set up today, come to the Boys & Girls Club behind Jennie Dean School off Wellington at 1 pm.
Yes, Moon the grant money is based on at least 40% reduced/free lunches. I’m not fond of that of that, and certainly don’t like the fact that it’s the middle for my neighborhood.
This project really is about preservation. It engages our students in our history, and brings a new perspective on the Civil War. The partnership will be with VDOE, National Park Service, PWC (BoS and School Board). It’s only a $13,000 committment per year on the part of the BOS.
This is an excellent opportunity for kids to be involved and work with others from all walks of life within their community.
Harper’s Ferry was a pilot program. It’s their hope to further extend the project to all of the parks within the Journey Through Hollowed Ground. The bi-way was dedicated for this in the middle October. Then they would like to extend this program thoughout the nation.
Thank you to Supervisor Stirrup for supporting this project. I think this an excellent opportunity for our county and it’s students.
You really should look at the presentation and see what the kids did in Harper’s Ferry.
Opinion, I see what you are saying, but $100,000 is two teachers, firemen or police officers. When you are dealing with the jobs of our residents I think some deliberation is called for. Additionally, didn’t the County close down a Senior Citizens center laast year in budget cuts? Priorities, Priorities
I have looked at it. I have more time though than many of our contributors.
It looked to me like all 8 supervisors not only supported the project but also suspended the rules and voted to pick up this initiative.
I am tired of grants going to quota schools. It doesn’t seem right that Bull Run and Marstellar would be ineligible to even apply because they don’t have enough students on free lunch.
I have no problem with the free lunch program, don’t get me wrong. Hungry kids don’t learn.
I have a problem with it being the end all be all as a standard. Its intent originally was to feed hungry kids who don’t have the money for lunch (and breakfast). The program is misused to indicate who gets title I services and all sorts of other things. For instance, we now have the distinct impression that Stonewall Middle is a ‘poor kid school.’ Why? Number of students qualifying for free or reduced lunch is a matter of public record. It is used to label students, schools, neighborhoods, counties.
Lafayette, how much was the cost of the western senior center? Why do I want to say $140k?
The rules needed to be suspended the grant application was due 10/30/09.
The “poor kid school”..sigh
I agree with the free lunch program being the deciding factor. I think it really could’ve been best determined by some sort of competition for “the gig”. Free lunch is abused like every other program. Don’t get me started. I do not want kids to go hungry.
Great…now something to make my blood boil!! The cost was about $150K. That was not completely funded by the county. The center was a shared service with the two cities that they paid for.
@Moon-howler
@IVAN
You know, we are both “right”. Like all things, its a matter of perspective. My thinking is that the publicity, tourism, taxes on the revenue generated by the event, and good will over the long haul will be good for the County and generate far more than the modest investment that we are talking about. That return will help pay for all of the things you mention.
Like the stock market, there’s no guarantee… and no wrong answers. It’s a bit of a risk; however, I think its a good one. It’s like the folks who invest in bonds instead of stocks… less risk, less reward, higher P of a return on your investment. Neither investment is incorrect.
The price of a protracted debate (they cost quite a bit) vice simply letting elected officials do what they were elected to do drives up the cost of everything at the expense of those things you mentioned.
Does anyone know how PWBOCS stands on this issue? They won’t meet until next Tues. Will Corey take the lead from his buddy Greg and say no?
I would like to see some projected figures. How much do 9 day events like proposed (???) bring in? I have no idea. Some people have compared Manassas to Gettysburg. Not even close.
All sorts of money has been poured into Gettysburg for years, starting with the year the North won that battle. It was the defining battle of the Civil War, if the history books are to be believed. He who wins gets to write the history books. Just the Gettysburg Address puts that battlefield on the map in indelible ink.
A small comparison of battlefields leaps out at the casual observer. Contrast Sharpsburg/Antietam to Manassas. Manassas looks like the stepchild. And the reason is obvious. It looks like Fredericksburg, the Wilderness, Spotsylvania, etc. All those battlefields lay in ‘enemy territory’ and didn’t get the immediate attention and money infused. Also there were fewer of them ‘up North.’ (battlefields that is) The up-keep and number of markers/monuments is considerably more noticable than Manassas.
I have lived most of my life near battlefields. Perhaps I just accept them as part of the scenery.
M-H, its not on their agenda for Tuesday. That being said, its hard to say where Corey will fall on the issue as based on his past actions I could make an arguement for him taking either side of the issue.
You have however hit on several critical points:
1. Manassas is not Gettysburg, the infrastructure and administrative supporting built around history is not present in Manassas (now if we were celebrating strip malls it would be a different story).
2. How much do 9 day events like proposed (???) bring in? EXACTLY, experience shows that such tourism dollars are dramatically impacted by the state of the economy, price of gas, location in terms of alternative forms of entertainment ie: Williamsburg/Busch Gardens and other such unpredictable things as weather (it would be held during hurricane season) or the unexpected, fear of a pandemic, large scale construction projects that tie up interstates, act of terrorism, etc.
Looking at it from a strictly fiscal angle, it is a risky proposition at best if the jurisdictions hope to recover costs in the near or long term. The only immediate (within one fiscal year) financial benefits would be from BPOL at the end of the tax year and meals tax revenues in the case of the City. Given that a large amount of those projected “tourism” dollars would be spent outside of PWC (we don’t have an adequate supply of hotel space) it is conceivable that Fairfax might benefit more than PWC. Morevoer, given that it is billed as a one off event, the notion that it will attract businesses to Manassas/PWC is ludicrous at best. The only upside I see is a short term bump for those businesses in Old Town, it might keep some failing businesses alive for some length of time but will likely only delay the inevitable.
@Moon-howler
Your points are well taken. I would hope that the Manassas City Council did a bit of cost/benefit analysis before approving the 100K. The answers to your questions might just be a FOIA away.
A cost/benefit (urk, choked on my lunch) analysis, before the expenditure is considered? In PWC or Manassas, are you joking? There’s too much of a potential for immediate “positive” PR to be passed up by most our local electeds in the name of fiscal responsiblity, if it sounds good and is presented by the most upstanding elements of our community it must be good, debate and common sense be damned, vote in favor of it immediately. Believe me when I say I know of what I speak in this regard, been there done that.
Heaven help me! I’m finding myself in agreement with mom on a couple of things. 🙂
I agree completely that this event will NOT attract businesses to PWC or CoM.
The “tourism” money would only be for a short period of time, and during a time that we already have a few “tourism” bucks coming into the county. We will always be at a disadvantage in PWC for real tourism money, until we get a full service hotel here. We have many historical sites in the county that don’t get promoted often enough. However, it’s a little hard to promote something when you are NOT equipped to handle it. It’s too easy for someone to stay in Fairfax County at one of their many full service hotels and be closer to DC and it’s many FREE attractions.
Celebrate Strip Malls…LMAO!!!
Having thought about it a little bit, I do sense an opportunity for some enterprising entreprenuer, much like Kramer’s bus tour on Seinfeld.
It would start with a trip east on 66 from Haymarket during the morning rush hour to give the tourists a real feel for the Capital region, exit onto Route 28 for a quick trip to the site where the infamous Bobbit member was found, followed by a loop through the used car lots of Liberia Avenue, then a trip down to see Mr. Fernandez’s sign, then a photo op with Supervisor Covington to make the vertically challenged feel better about themselves, a bag lunch with Supervisor Nohe at his favorite barbershop, followed by a scenic trip through the Linton Hall corridor to experience planning at it finest, a quick bathroom break at the restroom trailers Brentsville High School, and then a glimpse of the lake you are forbidden to use by the City, ending with a crawl up 29 back to Haymarket.
@Mom
PWC… I would expect staff to do a bit of work (and I watch these things closer than most). Manassas, I can’t say and will defer to your experience. People tend to get the Government they deserve… ’tis a pity.
Am I dreaming (a strong possibility) or is Potomac Mills Mall one of the biggest tourist attractions (if not the biggest) in Virginia? I would love what kind of tax revenues it generates (I’m talking business tax revenue). I’m guessing small businesses don’t agree with your assessment regarding tourist dollars; however, I don’t have the data to support it (although I’m guessing a FOIA request would clear things up if someone cared enough).
@Mom
I’m in tears!! You really hit the hot spots. The bus could be wrapped in ads. The first one being eat in PWC, there’s no meal tax.
Position itself for long term tourism? What exactly are tourists going to do? It’s not like we have Disney up here…
I guess tourists can go check out the sprawl that sprang up where Disney was going to be.
Don’t get me wrong, I appreciate our battlefields, but I don’t really see PWC as a tourist hot-spot. 100k isn’t much in the grand scheme of things, but that would’ve purchased around 30 cameras for police vehicles.
Mando our proximity to DC makes us a tourist destination spot of sorts. I certainly don’t feel our historical spots in the county are enough to attract real tourism dollars. It costs way more to stay in the city or closer.
I so wish we had Disney America over what we got instead. Disney would’ve brought money to the area and instead we got big houses built on top of each other in new neighborhoods that have kids that need an education as other county services. The county really missed the boat with Disney America. Disney would have created jobs the new houses only created jobs while they were being built. I have a pin promoting the should have been park on my desk. Not a day goes by that I don’t think about that lost opportunity for the county.
MOM, you left off dumping all your trash from the day off at the Silver Lake trash recepticals, which do NOT exist.
I am trying to picture Manassas as a tourist attraction. It isn’t happening. I branch out a little to include PWC. Potomac Mills. (MY idea of hell but that is irrelevant.) I know lots of buses come into the area bringing shoppers. Splashdown attracts some charter buses also. The battlefield seems to attract the more serious types, the ones who wouldn’t show up on a tour bus.
Perhaps I am just not seeing something.
@Moon-howler
No trash recepticals? WTF?
There could also, be a night time bus tour to Ben Lomond house and then through the dark unlit streets of Sudley to Ben Lomond(SD to newcomers). Once at Ben Lomond they could light torches for a walk through the woods to Bull Run.
There are a gazillion Civil War buffs out there, and a lot of them have plenty of money to travel. Why wouldn’t they come here, the very place the Civil War began? Look how many battlefields we have here in addition to Manassas Museum. These are all untapped resources.
PWC could be a prime tourist attraction. Plus, it is cheaper to stay here and easy to access Washington DC, as someone else pointed out.
Why can’t we have travel agents pushing Civil War vacation packages? How about American History packages? How about 19th Life packages? Let’s use some creativity. There’s no reason PWC and Manassas can’t have thriving tourism the way Williamsburg does.
I’m also thinking George Mason. Get some dorms out here and some history majors. “Attend college in historic PWC.” Set the landscape and tone so we “look” historic in a variety of area. You don’t have to have all 19th century buildings to do that.
Old Town Manassas is gorgeous! Everything about it says “history.” In addition to Manassas Museum, there’s the Candy Factory, the Kramer Center and the cute little shops. Look how many people come out for the damn fireworks. You’re telling me more people would come out for those than for a huge Civil War event?
We have the opportunity to attract a different crowd. Trust me, people who have money to buy Civil War garb have money to travel here. And they have a different outlook as well as education.
Screw the Disney Corporate Scum. All they do is rip off families. (No offense Lafayette and others.)
And I didn’t even get into the history Buckland and Bull Run Mountains areas offer.
How about some fun tours? BRMC is offering a historic house tour this weekend. There’s Chapman’s Mill.
And how about some ghoulish tours? Tour old cemeteries and hunt for ghosts. Remember Ghost Hunters coming to Brentsville? Why not play off of that? Get the word out nationally.
Pinko,
I have many history buffs in my family. I will have three guests here from Harrisonburg and WVa.. They will be sleeping and eating at my house. They will save their money to purchase memorabilia.
Disney only rips off those that choose to spend their money there. I think a lot of the builders and land barrons ripped off people in the county. No offense taken, but I will always wish we had Disney over the houses that got thrown up in record time.
Pinko, in the words of a long time family friend in Brenstville proper..”I’ve yet to see a tour bus roll through to visit the courthouse in Brentsville”. I’m not sure the Ghost Hunters’ episode will increase the likelihood of tour buses in Brentsville proper.
Yeah, well I hate the Vinyl Villages as well. But I can’t afford to spend $700 to get my family into two parks.
But let’s get back to tourism. I am not expert, but I do know tourism isn’t all about hotels. Admissions fees, shows, memorabilia, car rentals, photos are all part of it. And people will want to buy drinks when they are walking around, even if they are eating off site.
And think of the huge horse communities we have here. “Kids, dress up in Civil War clothes and be part of the cavalry. Ride a cavalry horse for $15.00.” There would be some seriously long lines for that.
It seems to me investing in this kind of stuff would be well worth it for the 150th and in the future.
If we get a reputation as a cool place to be, we might see more kids coming from out of state for educational field trips.
@Lafayette
The key word is “yet.” And if it’s part of a larger tour, then yes, you would see tour buses.
One of the issues is that the parks are not working together to improve tourism. They are all concerned with their little piece of the historic pie in some ways, for whatever reason. But if all the parks get together and start thinking of this area as THE place to be–not as just one or two parks–then we have something going. But this takes cooperation between County, City and national parks. I don’t know if there’s a commission or anything on local parks of all kinds, but there should be. If all the parks are operating in a vacuum, nothing will grow the way it can and should.
Manassas is not some place that nobody’s heard about. I think if it were seen as “cool place” we would not be having this discussion.
I like your dress up and ride a horse idea. I’m far more supportive of the student project than public funds being spent on a venture we have no idea what it will really bring to the county and city for this event. Frankly, I think those that started the non-porfit should put their money where their mouth is and cough up some of their bucks, and encourage the private sector and locally businesses to support this event. I’m not saying there shouldn’t be any public funds spent on it, but I do think it should be minimal. There really is no way to project the revenue for a one time event such as this. Now, I might feel a little differently come the 150th celebration of the Second Battle of Manassas, because we will hopefully have some numbers from the First Battle’s anniversary.
M-H, the trash receptacles may not exist but the acres of clear cut and graded land yards away from the lake (for the middle school site) do now exist. Sigh, the park lasted for less than a month in its intended state before our screwed up county and school board administrators screwed it up. Might just as well put in another money losing golf course and be done with it. The side benefit to that, at least in Wally’s mind, would be the draining of the water table and thus the necessity of extending sewer and water into the Rural Crescent. Yes, I am being snarky today.
I am all for this expense. The Civil War is in right now. We even have governors talking about starting a new one. But seriously the war is part of our history and as a theme it is a tourist attraction and provides Manassas with a lot of character.
Besides, the $100,000 cost to taxpayers is a heck of a lot less than Jackson Miller’s “Redefine The Family and Be Anti-immigrant For a While to Get Elected to Higher Office Act.”. What’s the exact difference in taxpayer dollars? Anyone know?
I would be less gung ho about using PWC taxdollars obviously. We’ve spent way too much on “Anti-Immigrant To Get to Higher Office” legislation already, and we didn’t even get anyone into higher office.
ummm, I think the Civil War buffs already know about Manassas. This isn’t going to be a discovery process for them.
Reality check.
You guys have your head in the clouds.
I’m sure the kids are going to pick the Manassas Battlefield over Bush Gardens when it comes time for that summer getaway.
And Civil War buffs are already aware of Bull Run and Manassas.
Witness, what higher office is Jackson Miller aspiring to? I must have missed that one. Corey yes. Jackson Miller..haven’t heard about it.
Pinko, PWC lost out big time when Disney withdrew its plan. In the first place, Disney would have been responsible for improvements that the county inherited. Additionally, the kids that came to it would be spending money, not needing to be educated.
It would have brought jobs into the area. As it turned out, we lost land that went into the federal park system. What do we now have? Miles and miles of traffic and miles and miles of housing development. I would rather be taxing Disney. At the time I had mixed feelings.
MOM, yes, it is all graded. The sounds of the grading machines are …overpowering. Yes, passive recreation lasted a month. Now we are plotting how to spoil the area.
I would just like to see some bear proof recepticals out there. That is just smart if the county doesn’t want it all trashed up.
I don’t know who this Owen guy is and kudos to him for wanting to drum up interest, but, like the 150th anniversary says, the battlefield has been here for 150 years. Unless he’s clairvoyant like Kevin Costner’s character in Field of Dreams, $100k or $1 mil, I don’t see them coming.
Build a Disney, then I’ll be a little more confidant.
Let’s play a little game called “what if”. There is a new Performing Arts Center being built out at George Mason Un. I attented a concert about 7 years ago where the idea of this Center was rolled out. They had blue prints, artist’s rendering of the final building and informational brochures. If my failing memory is somewhat correct, they were projecting a need to raise 14 to 20 million dollars to built this facility. Over the next 6 years the project apparently experienced some “cost overruns”. The Center is scheduled to open in May of 2010 at the cost of 56 million dollars. “What if” the commenmorative committe discovers a year from now that they will come up short on funds and comes back to the City, County and State for additional funding. Do they just say “no” and cancel the project throwing the money already appropriated down the drain. I don’t think so. The $100,000 the City has promised may turn into $200,000, $300,000 or more. Once you start down the path it’s nearly impossible to turn back. Are there any guarantees that no more money will be requested? Are there any reasonable estimate of what the overall costs of this venture will be? No. Should these questions be asked of our elected officials before money is allocated? I think so.
Mando, this is the second time today I have asked for someone to come shoot me. I agree with you.
I think the expectations need to be more realistic. I hope I am wrong. I don’t think I am though.
Must be Friday the 13th, Mando, Ivan, M-H, Lafayette and myself all roughly on the same page with nary a hint of bloodshed. All we need is GL to come and bless this unholy matrimony.
Bwaaaahahahaha I think he would want to join the unholy union. Be afraid!
Seriously. Are salaries involved? office rental? How will the ‘seed money’ be spent? Who gets the money for the events? Will the jurisdictions split the profits? How will they split?