This report came out November 5th. I am not going to post the entire report, but you can click here to read it in full.
What jumped out at me, immediately, was the fact that overall, the sudden demographic change, i.e. the influx of Latinos, to specific neighborhoods, resulted in a sense of community loss. Residents who had lived in fairly homogeneous populations, were quite suddenly faced with dramatic changes to their perception of what was “comfortable” and secure in their own neighborhoods.
I am not suggesting there were not real issues of quality of life, but it is clear, the orchestrated deliberate attempt to equate all hispanics as “illegals” was meant to facilitate targeted removal of a specific population. Many hispanics left, not because they were lacking proper documentation, but because they were afraid of being harrassed.
FAIRFAX, Va.—A study by George Mason University researchers has found that a majority of residents in two Manassas neighborhoods express deep-seated anti-immigrant sentiments, though fewer than half say immigration has affected them personally. The survey, which included life history interviews, was conducted from Spring 2008 to Summer 2009 to attain an in-depth understanding of the forces inciting a local movement to adopt legislation to “crackdown” on illegal immigration in Prince William County.
Forty-six percent of those surveyed indicated that immigration had had either no effect on them personally or has had a positive effect. A total of 79 percent stated that they like their neighborhoods and 56.9 percent said that they planned to stay in their neighborhood in the next 5 years.
Yet, 53 percent of residents in the Weems and Sumner Lakes neighborhoods surveyed stated that the U.S. should take decisive action to deport illegal immigrants, and/or blamed them for depleting local resources such as health care and education. Some expressed strong anti-immigrant sentiments as indicated by the statements: “The place is being barraged with Latinos…Everywhere you go, there are swarms of them,” and, “Can I send them on a bus and load it up until they all speak English?” Others were more moderate in their sentiments, citing the issue of immigrants having entered the country illegally as a key concern.
“Our research suggests that the changes that have taken place in Manassas in the last 20 years have been unsettling for some residents,” says Debra Lattanzi Shutika, assistant professor of English at Mason. “Many of these residents seemed to be experiencing what I have identified as a type of ‘localized displacement’—they feel out of place in their home community. In some cases, residents told us that they found it difficult to adapt to the changes taking place around them, and that these changes that made their ‘home’ seem unfamiliar.”
“Homeowners naturally want their investments to appreciate,” says Cleaveland, a faculty member in Mason’s Department of Social Work. “What becomes problematic is turning this discussion into one about the presence of a particular group of people, and creating a social issue in which a certain segment of the population is targeted. We would have hoped for a debate and response that concerned trash pick-up, parking and overcrowding, instead of one in which a particular group is singled out as problematic.”
[EDITOR NOTE: Thread moved to current location because of continued interest. M-H 11/22/09]
Poor Richard,
I really should get the original report, I think that would be helpful for everyone, I do agree with most of your summation. I would suggest, in any neighborhood, where there is a dramatic change in demorgraphics, it is a recipe for possible problems. My neighborhood in centreville had a large influx, quite rapidly, of Pakastani and Indian immigrants. We experienced MOST of the issues described by people in specific neighborhoods in manassas and yet, our reaction was more like that of Wolverine and Casual Observer.
Throughout history, neighborhoods change, what was once a primarily jewish neighborhood in the suburbs of boston morphed into a mostly african american demographic. I believe now that neighborhood is once again experiencing a change and many Brazillians are moving in large numbers to those apartments. This is an old American story, it doesn’t require millions spent on a resolution or tearing a community apart, it required neighborhood services AND a neighborhood outreach program to help facilitate better community relations.
No problem, we can work out a “secret handshake” and only I will know it’s you! 🙂
@Rick Bentley
I have not read the full report but from this it seems like we can finally come to terms with what really happened and offer and seek forgiveness.
“Researchers emphasize that that the work they’ve done is not meant to be a representative sample of the larger population in Prince William County.”
Yes, these people are/were not representative of the entire county, not even in the least. If they were, we’d still be living under the FAIR’s frightening forced police intimidation, or actually it would have been a federal court that would have struck down the law instead of the silent majority standing up to repeal it via the legislative process.
At the end of the day what we had here was three politicians (Stewart, Letiecq, and Stirrup) taking advantage of the understandable fear of a small minority of people. They knew they were afraid of demographic changes, but they were unaware of the protections of the Constitution, and the fact that Constitutional protections also apply to people who don’t appear to be “Americans” in their eyes. In fact, Constitutional protections extend to all persons, so their assumptions about who an American and who was not were off base anyway.
I think we can be good neighbors and forgive them for this ignorance. We should also forgive them for their fear. They are only human after all. Now days they are being made afraid of other things.
“You are assuming that all those people that left, leaving PWC, exponentially, in the worst forclosure disaster from any other county in the Old Dominion, were here undocumented. Was THAT good for our county?”
I assume that many, I would say most, of those foreclosures were indeed houses inhabited by illegal immigrants. Was it good? YES. My neighborhood’s very, very different now. At least half the 25 units on this block have foreclosed in the last 3 years. You could see the housefuls of illegal immigrants all lasting 2 years, until the balloon payments grew, and then foreclosure and exodus. Now most of those houses hold single families, living in a family-oriented neighborhood. A much safer environment.
I would think that, along with a construction work slowdown, our status as the county of “El Diablo” played a role in encouraging some to leave, and less to come in. That works for me. I prefer it to the situation circa 2004 when flyers were circulating in Mexico with maps to PWC saying “come here”.
“At the end of the day what we had here was three politicians (Stewart, Letiecq, and Stirrup) taking advantage of the understandable fear of a small minority of people.”
A. Two of them are politicians. And it’s probably safe to say from his blog that Greg doesn’t plan a career in politics.
B. If they hadn’t undertaken this efort – I believe all 9 members might have been voted out, Herndon blodbath style.
Elena, I take your point about neighborhoods changing. When the people moving in are actually part of a plot to lower American wages, it adds additional tension. And when their legal status is being ignored because our nation is granting them special rights not afforded to citizens – such as the right to identity fraud and the right not to pay taxes – it adds additional tension. Some of us would be angry about this even if the people in question weren’t living next door.
Then when they ARE living next door, and causing very real tension in your life, one can get quite angry.
@Poor Richard
The study circles have been highly successful in bringing people of diverse minds together. These were co-sponsored by GMU and Unity in the Community. The circles are up for awards because of their efforts to resolve neighborhood problems and anxieties through useful, respectful dialog. The coordinators are amazingly patient people who have dedicated hours upon hours to these projects.
Eleana, “neighborhood outreach programs to facilitate ….” nice idea, but
don’t over expect. Even thegood ones are labor intensive (ie: expensive),
take considerable time and subject to charges of disparate treatment —
from all sides.
Pinko, The “study circles” are worthwhile, but certainly not close to
the cold hard examination, clarity and robust action this
issue merits.
@Poor Richard
Define examination? There was no such examination prior to the passing of the original resolution.
Unfortunately, the “easy” was was just targeting a group as a whole and not caring about long term solutions OR long term consequences of the resolution. I find it interesting that real, well, sad actually, that solution building dialogue is so much harder to accomplish than creating the task force that I am suggesting
@Poor Richard
Rick,
I do empathize, I really do, I did live in such a neighborhood, but I never thought that I could use the law the way HSM and the BOCS used, or rather mis-used that resolution.
Pinko, I don’t live in PWC and all I know about the “resolution” has been through
the media. One examination should be of costs to local jurisdictions of
the rapid wave of immigrants that arrived with a focus on
public education, healthcare and public safety and who should fairly
pay that cost. (And yes, there are some economic benefits, but they are
far over-showed by expenses for local jurisdictions). My contention is that
the Federal government (who failed to secure the borders) needs to pay
a fairer portion of this amount.
I completely agree, Richard.
As far as no study being done prior to the passing of the initial resolution, Google the Human Rights Commission and Immigration Resolution where Chavez cites that very issue.
Rick, it’s true, Letiecq did not hold any elected office but he did wield more power than those who did. The only ones on the Board who had any chance of being defeated were Stirrup and Stewart. The others had no challenger or no serious challeger.
There was a great deal of anectdotal evidence prior to passage of the resolution. The object voiced by the human rights commission via Linda Chavez was that there was not empirical evidence. @PAP
I will never deny there were neighborhood problems–Huge neighborhood problems–Problems that needed the immediate attention of the various county services.
The reason I cannot support HSM/bvbl (and they are so inbred and entwined the family tree grows straight up) is because all dialogue was cut off. There was no give or take. If you didn’t quote the party line of HSM or the bloggers on bvbl, you were mimicked, vilified and attacked.
Anti didn’t just spout up out of a vacuum. It was originally made up of people who had been pitched off of bvbl in part or total. In other words, the people who disagreed with the tactics of HSM were shouted down or silenced.
There is no point in naming names but the bullies come here to read and they know who they are. The bullying hurt the reputation of the entire area, Manassas, Manassas Park and Prince William County. The bullying also continues in various forms. Certain members like to use various county agencies to stick it to people who have spoken out. Cops, neighborhood services, zoning have all been used to give ‘pay-backs,’
W2. Stirrup’s opponent didn’t run a serious campaign either.
It was about those house of delegate races and all about Corey. The balance of power was very delicate in both the house and the senate at the state level. Bush has a low approval rating amongst Republicans.
I always felt the immigration hoopla raised was expanded to not only bring in new Republicans but also to hold on to people who generally voted Republican. The handwriting was on the wall. The demographics of our area was perfect for fanning the flames and pulling in new voters and holding on to the old ones. Immigration was the next best thing to putting a marriage protection referrendum on the ballot.
Pandek, Colgan, Rishell, Principi were treated like dogs with demon horns.
I think that it had little to do with national or state partisan politics and everything to do with this :
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/02/AR2006050201805.html
Herndon voters yesterday unseated the mayor and two Town Council members who supported a bitterly debated day-labor center for immigrant workers in a contest that emerged as a mini-referendum on the turbulent national issue of illegal immigration.
…
Residents replaced the incumbents with challengers who immediately called for significant changes at the center. Some want to bar public funds from being spent on the facility or restrict it to workers living in the country legally. Others want it moved to an industrial site away from the residential neighborhood where it is located.
…
The council voted 5 to 2 last August to establish the center, but yesterday’s vote created an apparent 6 to 1 majority in opposition. Steve J. DeBenedittis, 38, a health club operator and political newcomer, defeated Mayor Michael L. O’Reilly with 52 percent of the vote. Council members Carol A. Bruce and Steven D. Mitchell, who voted for the center, also were turned out of office. Jorge Rochac, a Salvadoran businessman who supported the center and was seeking to become the town’s first Hispanic council member, also was defeated.
Elected to the council were challengers William B. Tirrell, Charlie D. Waddell, Connie Haines Hutchinson and David A. Kirby, all opponents of the facility, which was created to help immigrants connect with employers each day.
Two incumbents were reelected. Dennis D. Husch, who was one of the two council members to vote against the center, received more votes than any of the eight other council candidates. J. Harlon Reece was the lone supporter who was reelected. He received the fewest number of votes among the six winners.
Twenty-six percent of the town’s 10,203 registered voters came to the polls, up from 20 percent when O’Reilly was elected two years ago, according to Fairfax County figures.
DeBenedittis, the son of a popular former high school art teacher in Herndon, said his victory was the product of intensive door-to-door campaigning and voters’ deep discontent over how the labor center issue was handled by the mayor and council in the town of 23,000 residents.
Rick, I don’t discount the Herndon influence but really only one supervisor had a serious contender and that was Corey Stewart. The balance of the State house and senate was very important to the Republicans. They needed to maintain the status quo. Bush had really hurt the party.
Stirrups opponent had VERY little help from the demoractic leadership in PWC!
Exactly Elena. I meant to say that earlier and just realized it is still sitting in an open windows on my screen. Was the guy’s name Corey Riley? He had very little help and was never a serious threat to John Stirrup. JS knew this also.
Corey Stewart was the only real supervisor with any hounds nipping at his heels in the 2007 election. Perhaps that is why he rode the immigration horse a little harder than anyone else.
This helps explain why he sent out invitations to every house in PWC just to let everyone know he was on the anti illegal immigration band wagon. The cost of those invitations? $30,000. It sure wasn’t because he wanted their input. As many remember, the first thing he did was try to limit their speaking time to 1 minute. And we all know the vote was unanimous to pass the resolution and those 8 supervisors had made up their minds before they ever went in those chambers.
Didn’t the Democratic Party change leadership in 2007 or 2008 in PWC?
Do they have any leadership?
Posting as Pinko — Sorry to be delayed in replying to your very legitimate query. You are correct in raising the possibility of socio-economic issues. One such issue which has always torn me in two directions is that of residential overcrowding. Some of the visible results can be striking: usually a deterioration of the premises concerned; often a lessening of sanitation (e.g., the many cases of too many people and not enough sanitation facilities in a home); loud social gatherings which have disturbed the neighbors; and a massive influx of vehicles which either tends to squeeze other residents out of their rights to street parking for their own guests or to cause parking on lawns and the subsequent degradation of those lawns, as well as the degradation of neighborhood appearance and a diminishing of home resale value.
However, overcrowding does have economic causes, especially where the immigrants are in the lower wage jobs. It becomes, quite frankly, a matter of financial survival. This has become even more so in the face of the recent waves of home foreclosures, which have often hit recent immigrants very hard because they were led into purchase mistakes that were actually pushed on them by some of us — ah hah! Another guilty party here! So, the rest of us are caught between changes which affect our quality of life and our own financial status and an inherent American sympathy for the “little guy” who is struggling to make ends meet and feed his family. County law tries to mitigate some of this through a definition of “family” which allows greater latitude. But the other side, seeing the loopholes in that law, soon figures out that the best way to get around it is for everyone in the house to suddenly become a nephew, a niece, someone’s fiancee, or a third cousin on Aunt Rosa’s side of the family. There is, of course, no documentation to back it up, so the authorities have to throw up their hands in frustration.
All in all, I would have to say that this is truly a conundrum — at least for me. I think back to my own immigrant ancestors (I’m an amateur genealogist) who had Mom and Pop and anywhere from six to twelve kids in the old farmhouse or even in the city house, with the kids usually staying on until marriage. Where are the differences between then and now? From what I can see through old family records and photos, it is a certain pride of appearance in the dwelling as far as the budget would stretch, both out of personal pride and out of deference to the neighbors. That I do not see so much in the present circumstances — I see some (including some very outstanding examples) but not nearly enough.
Other problems, however, I see as majorly attitudinal. Even if you do not speak English, how much smarts does it take to recognize that the word “reserved” marked on a parking space equates with “reservado” in Spanish. Even if one is illiterate, it should take only one experience with an angry homeowner or a tow truck driver to convince you that “reserved” means business. Unfortunately still a problem — as in taking a risk by occupying someone else’s space for an hour or two and figuring you can get away with it and get away without serious consequences.
Proper disposal of trash is another attitudinal issue. The rules in our community (based on county law) are simple. If you have a trash container with a lid, you can put your trash curbside after 6:00pm the night before trash pickup. If you do not choose to use a trash container, you must put your trash bags out after dawn on the day of trash pickup, thus evading the nocturnal critters and rodents. The violations I cited previously came because many people either refused to comply with those simple rules or just tried to pretend that they didn’t understand the whole concept, even if it weas presented in Spanish by our Spanish-language translator/interpreter. There is nothing economic about this beyond the cost of a trash can. Even that can be avoided by the simple process of waiting until the morning to put the bags out. This refusal to comply for no good reason becomes, in my opinion, an unfortunate part of the development of the bias which we are discussing.
I’m going much too long on this. But, to sum it up, some of the problems are, indeed, socio-economic. Others, however, are attitudinal. I would think that, by picking up on the atttitudes prevalent in the society into which one has moved and by trying to comply with local laws, rules, and customs where monetary issues are only a small factor or a non-factor, the recent immigrant could himself take a large step forward toward lessening the bias. My question is: Why does he not do this?”
Grr…Moon and those damn mailers. I didn’t mind Corey sending the mailers to the
residents(legal and illegal). I bet there were some that even had Corey autograph theirs. 😉
I believe one main difference in the old photographs and now is the idea of permanency. If you are an immigrant, you can be dirt poor and stacked in an over-crowded project house. However, if you are starting a new life, you try to put on outward appearances.
I had neighbors who didn’t even give any appearance of being permanent neighbors. In fact, they kept a move-away van in the driveway. They moved in that pull thing-a-ma-bob and left it right there. A little less than a year later they moved away in the dead of night in it. For the year they lived there they created a problem disturbing domestic tranquility. The cops were always there, every weekend. The couple weren’t the only ones living there. They rented out to several young single men. I generally got to see them in the middle of the night when the cops were questioning them and for some reason that just had to happen in front of my house.
I knew they were moving when I saw the refrigerator going out the front door and on to a pick up truck. It was the refrigerator that went with the house. I didn’t call the cops. I knew what was happening but I didn’t feel like spending the day playing the game of whose was the owner of the refrigerator. They left a couple days later. The gypsy van in the driveway was gone and there were probably 50 bags of trash on the deck and toys and appliances in the back yard.
I could have told you what was going to happen the day after they moved in. The pull van that lived there was the dead giveaway. NO sense of permanence.
Being a good neighbor goes a long way towards getting rid of prejudices.
LOL @ Lafayette. She and I agree on many things, this wasn’t one of those things.
I resented that $30,000 wasted on notifying people of citizens time. It wasn’t even billed as a public hearing. Then he tried to cut speaking time to 1 minute.
I saw it as a cheap political move at the expense of the tax payers.
I especially thought the “fliers” were a total waste of 30K cause I got mine the day AFTER the public hearing! Money well spent!
I don’t see the point in the flyers. Seriously, what possible reason could he have to have sent out those flyers other than to advance his political agenda for the upcoming election.
And the person he consulted? Bwaaahahahahahah
Hi Twinad,
I’ve missed you, thanks for “stopping” by 🙂
@Wolverine
Thank you for your detailed, thoughtful response, Wolverine.
You ask why there is an attitude. That’s a very valid question. I say part of it is education or the lack thereof. And part of it could be pride.
Learning to speak English (in fact, learning anything new) can be difficult. The lower we are on the socio-economic ladder, the more we have learned that we don’t seem to learn as easily as other people, partly because maybe our basic needs are not being met. And if we DO learn easily, nothing else seems to come as easily as it does to others. Why is this? It’s not fair, we believe. It makes us angry. We don’t like to feel stupid or feel like failures. And we don’t like to be told what to do because that makes us feel even more powerless. So we develop bad attitude and that attitude is translated back into the family and the community.
A big fear citizens hold is that a rapid influx of uneducated people will yield the kinds of social problems we are discussing. There is the fear of creating an underclass. This is a valid fear. But the longer people are forced to live in the shadows, the more those fears are recognized.
For any group to thrive, there must be opportunity and drive. Some have one but not the other. But look what is happening in the immigrant communities. How many have the drive but do not have the opportunity–the opportunity to become officially recognized, to work in safe environments, to become educated without fear of being labeled, to completely leave behind the poverty they hoped to escape when they left their own countries?
Please don’t misunderstand me. I’m not saying the U.S. should take in and feed the whole world and put up with bad neighborhoods. We can’t and shouldn’t do that. But I do think we owe something to the people we let in and the people we have allowed to stay here and work for us. And I think we have to give everyone a chance to succeed, because when one person succeeds, the likelihood of family members succeeding increases exponentially.
That said, some people are just rotten neighbors. Some people are rude, inconsiderate jerks no matter what advantages or opportunities they have been given in life. But that has nothing to do with ethnicity or citizen status. It has to do with behaviors and personality.
Question: those people who don’t follow the community rules (like the trash-dumpers)–are there repercussions? There should be some reasonable consequences for the more serious issues you cite.
Please don’t forget, two immigrants died in our Weems neighborhood. (The name tracks with Weems 1 and Weems 2, which are community policing districts in the City of Manassas)
Victor Moreno Orozco was murdered on Weems Road in front of the soccer field at Weems Elementary School on September 15, 2007 by then 18-year-old Robert Briscoe, who is now on death row. Briscoe also tried to kill Orozco’s friend.
In February 2008, Manassas Cab Company driver Khawaja Ahmed was murdered on Landgreen Street. His killer has not been caught.
There were also KKK flyers distributed on Weems Road, Landgreen Street and Jackson Avenue. Also, on Fort Drive, someone put handmade signs in front of two houses that said, in Spanish and English, “Renting Rooms is Illegal! The Police are Watching!”
That was one reason I inquired as to what really is ‘Weems.’ I was unsure what was really Weems. When I made my remark I wasn’t thinking about murder. I was was thinking about neigbhorhood issues. Murder is not a trendable crime. That is not to detract from those horrible events.
I was referring to ‘impacted’ such as defined by Wolverine. Sorry for the confusion.
PAP — Ignoring the rules in this community can get you first a warning and then a $50 fine, which is the maximum allowable under state law. These fines are levied regardless of who you are or where you came from. Some have asked if the really recalcitrant ones don’t ignore the fines. They can’t. You run up an overdue tab around here and you risk losing your reserved parking spaces, as well as certain other privileges. In a rather tightly-packed community like ours, those reserved parking spaces by themselves are the equivalent of gold. So, those with fines do come in cash in hand. Additionally, if you get caught in someone else’s reserved parking space or in a fire lane, it could cost you between $80 to $100 just to get your vehicle back from the contract towing company.
The thing that really puzzles me about some of the recent immigrants is that they will come in time after time to pony up the cash and then keep right on doing when the did to draw the original fine. I mean like, hey, friend, you are giving up hard-earned money for something that could be easily avoided if you made up your mind to follow the rather simple rules around here. But perhaps you, PAP, may have hit on something in that second para of your #80 post — the psychology of some kind of oppositional defiance. Good point.
The rest of your #80 post also has relevance in another area. The problems with regard to recent immigrants is one thing. I am afraid, however, that we may be going beyond that into a first generational problem . I get this from very good personal links into our secondary school system. It seems to me that the children of the recent immigrants are often poorly equipped from a psychological perspective to “make it” in an academic system where they are pushed forward too quickly, eventually arriving at a point where they can function hardly at all in that sphere — usually at the high school level. The response then of far too many is to give up on the academics and their own futures and to become, very candidly, the smartasses and cutups in the classroom. This in turn undermines the school by causing a focus switch away from teaching toward disciplinary measures.
This is not something universal, but it seems to be happening enough to cause concern. Part of this problem has to fall back on the shoulders of the immigrant parents. Too exhausted by their efforts to make a buck? No inherent sense of the value of education? Just don’t care? I don’t know the exact reasons, but I do sense that we are losing too big a portion of the first generation — many, many of whom already have their citizenship by birth. This makes me think that the recent adult immigrants have to let go of their attachment to the “old country” and meld much more quickly into our culture, thereby opening up far greater avenues for they and us to work together to save their first generation. This doesn’t mean they have to completely forget their former homes (none of my ancestors did) but must, rather, make up their minds about the culture in which they wish to live. Many of the Hispanics of my acquaintance who have done that are, in my opinion, making great strides in their personal fortunes. Their very first step was to learn that English — hard as it might be.
Lots of problems to be sure. It does seem to me , however, that, if we can solve some of the micro-problems, many of the macro-problems being debated so hotly at the national, state, and county levels might start to go away by themselves. Moon-howler had the right idea. Good neighbors, no matter what the differences in ethnic origin or skin color, can go a very long way toward killing off that old devil “bias.” We really do need to bring back that old “melting pot.”
“What jumped out at me, immediately, was the fact that overall, the sudden demographic change, i.e. the influx of Latinos, to specific neighborhoods, resulted in a sense of community loss. Residents who had lived in fairly homogeneous populations, were quite suddenly faced with dramatic changes to their perception of what was “comfortable” and secure in their own neighborhoods. ”
From the tone of this paragraph – putting comfortable in quotation marks, for example – suggests you don’t have much respect for this argument. Indeed, you suggest that people “who had lived in fairly homogeneous populations” suddenly had to change their life long “perceptions”.
You qualify your statement with a brief acknowledgment of quality of life issues, but you go on to say that political events in Prince William County focused upon “deliberate attempt to equate all hispanics as ‘illegals'” in order to “to facilitate targeted removal of a specific population”.
This is an argument that, frankly, not only ignores the very real concerns of people who had spent a lifetime living in Manassas and Prince William County, but also unfairly assigns racist motivations to their efforts to rid their community of gangs, overcrowding, and unsanitary practices. Also, the influx of immigrants – a great many of whom were indeed here illegal – placed an extraordinary strain on Prince William and Manassas’s education and health system.
Simply put, why don’t people who have spent a lifetime living in Prince William and Manassas have a say in the general future of the area? I remember, for example, when Manassas Mall was a nice, if small, shopping center. Now it’s dangerous (I have traveled extensively around the world, including Latin America, so it’s not a case of fearing “the other” – there is a very real gang presence there). I remember when Prince William County schools were among the best in the area. Now, many schools have early grades filled with children who don’t speak a word of English. It degrades the quality of education for everyone. Prince William Hospital puts up with huge costs every year for treating immigrants with no insurance, and indeed no proper identification at all – not to mention the strain on doctors and staff. The community issues – crime, parking, overcrowding, unsanitary practices – have already been written about here so there is no need to go over them again. But the question remains: why should people who have spent a lifetime living in Prince William County and Manassas stand idly by while their property values drop, their quality of life decreases, their neighborhoods become more dangerous, their schools offer a poorer education, and their access to medical care become more limited? It seems extraordinarily masochistic to say that one simply has to stand and watch their community’s degradation, and outright slander to say any efforts to restore things to the way they were are based on race.
The black velvets are now posting racist jokes showing black women thinking they will get free money because Obama is president. I looked for the dog and dog food joke but that wasn’t up there. No common sense. No sense of what is appropriate and what is not.
That blog has become marginal at best. You guys need to change your name over here.
@Black Velvet Reporter
Thanks for the heads up! I went over and checked it out….pretty funny!
Thanks, Elena! 🙂 I’ve missed posting very much. I have a new job (same company) and let’s just say my new job requires my attention ALL the time so I don’t have the down time anymore to think about the issues discussed here and weigh in! You all have been doing a great job keeping it up and I do, as MH says, “drive by” all the time. You just don’t get my 2 cents very often anymore!
I’ve finally read the “report”. Frankly, it’s more like an article or an OP/ED letter. It’s a real shame that the article reports on two neighborhoods in the city regarding a policy that effected the county NOT the city. I know for a fact that they did talk to at least one person in WestGate, and I can assure that person doesn’t agree with the finish product. Furthermore, people need to understand there’s The City of Manassas and there is Manassas in PWC.
Cindy, you also need to remember C.J. Angelos was murdered by MS-## members in Irongate. I think the two murders you speak of are indeed sad stories, but immigrants (legal and illegal) have committed their share of murders in our area too.
Matt, you summed it up nicely in your last post. I’m a native to PWC(Manassas) and will NEVER stand by and watch my hometown’s quality of life dwindle away. We as Americans still have rights too.
Hi Matt,
I was being quite sincere, not judgemental, in my analysis. That is why community intervention from a dialogue perspective would have been so valuable. In fact, I believe the “conversation” between PAP and Wolverine demonstrates the urgent need to have that dialogue. It is amazing how much just talking can help improve stressful and frustrating situations.
I am wondering, how do you know the majority of people were here “illegally” ?
Black Velvet Reporter,
Does Greg think this woman was being serious? Clearly it was meant as a joke, maybe you have to have a certain IQ to understand the sarcasm behind the video.
The thread is under “Humor & Satire” on bvbl and reads “This is just too funny”. I think that makes it clear Greg’s not serious. Now, the comments that may follow could very well be serious.
I would disagree Lafayette. Given the tone of his utter disgust for President Obama and the insinuations on this blog by many posters that Obama is a socialist, and that people who voted for him are expecting handout, this video, taken out of context, I believe, is being used as a tool to “prove” ,that there really are people out there who believe they are going to get free money.
We’ll have to agree to disagree. I’m too ticked by this “article” by GMU. I’m sick of them bashing a county where they have a vested interest. I still strongly disagree with “focus” on Weems & Sumner Lake. We in the county have rapes of children and murders too, and we actually are effected by the resolution not the City of Manassas.
Indeed, once again at the very least, apparent confusion of City of Manassas and PWC. One wonders how accurate this report can be if they selected those two neighborhoods as representative. Sumner Lake? It could not be less representative of a neighborhood having overcrowding issues or other issues. When I was in Point of Woods I used to often take my dog over to Sumner Lake for walks – just because it was safer (no trash on the ground to worry about – broken glass, etc., as well as just being quieter and much more pleasant to walk in without hearing cars blasting loud stereos at decibel levels causing hearing loss). To study Sumner Lake by going “door to door” for this kind of study is a complete waste of time. Weems – it also is not so representative – if they were going to look within the City limits try Point of Woods at least. If the people doing the research can’t be bothered to research enough to pick a representative neighborhood – it tosses their whole research in doubt.
I agree 100%! That’s what I was just trying to say but you said it better and more concisely!
Point of Woods was always tagged by gang graffiti. So was Stonewall Park. Not surprising it happens by the entrance of Sumner Lake too – it is bound to spread outwards from the problem areas.
Actually, my new neighborhood in Gainesville and adjoining neighborhoods, which are quite safe and very low crime (police cars are never seen here unlike Point of Woods where they were seen at least once a day) – has had a problem with gang graffiti taggings on sidewalks and neighborhood signs. Graffiti tagging seems to be everywhere, unfortunately. In fact, that’s the only crime activity I’ve been aware of in this area.
I should amend what I said about the only crime activity I’m aware of – I forgot that now rather infamous incident where that crazy kid did went on that graffiti spree last summer with all the “political” graffiti stuff – he hit a few houses in the adjoining neighborhood, although the bulk of his activity was at the nearby shopping center and some other neighborhoods further away.
In regards to Weems, who knows what they really meant – since they can’t even separate Manassas City from the part of Manassas that surrounds the city!
That murder of the cab driver actually could be considered right on the edge of Point of Woods. Unfortunately, who knows what really happened there since the murderer was never caught.
As far as crime activity – the Point of Woods newsletter used to publish the crime statistics just within Point of Woods – it was quite depressing reading and shocking how much the crime rate there went up in the last 5 years roughly. Many reports of domestic violence, car break-ins (although due to people stupidly leaving targets of opportunity visible in their cars), loud music complaints, several rapes in a short period of time, etc. etc. Before 5 years ago it had a much lower crime rate. There was even a murder there roughly 5 years ago (or maybe a year or two further back – I forget exactly) – but it was a family domestic violence – ex-husband murdering ex-wife in front of children at a bus stop!
Of course, I can’t forget the break-in to my own house, by my own direct neighbors no less – which was the last straw in what convinced me it was time to get the heck out of there as fast as I could. That started the wheels in motion that got me out of there exactly 1 year later. When your own neighbors think it’s OK to break into your house and take things for their own use, you know the neighborhood has reached the bottom!
Point of Woods seems more representative of a neighborhood that has been impacted by immigration than Sumner Lake. Upper Westgate was also hit hard.
It just stands to reason that those whose neighborhoods have been impacted more will have the stronger opinions. I am sure that Wolverine can be more explicit about behaviors than I can, for example. He lived with them day to day.