This report came out November 5th. I am not going to post the entire report, but you can click here to read it in full.
What jumped out at me, immediately, was the fact that overall, the sudden demographic change, i.e. the influx of Latinos, to specific neighborhoods, resulted in a sense of community loss. Residents who had lived in fairly homogeneous populations, were quite suddenly faced with dramatic changes to their perception of what was “comfortable” and secure in their own neighborhoods.
I am not suggesting there were not real issues of quality of life, but it is clear, the orchestrated deliberate attempt to equate all hispanics as “illegals” was meant to facilitate targeted removal of a specific population. Many hispanics left, not because they were lacking proper documentation, but because they were afraid of being harrassed.
FAIRFAX, Va.—A study by George Mason University researchers has found that a majority of residents in two Manassas neighborhoods express deep-seated anti-immigrant sentiments, though fewer than half say immigration has affected them personally. The survey, which included life history interviews, was conducted from Spring 2008 to Summer 2009 to attain an in-depth understanding of the forces inciting a local movement to adopt legislation to “crackdown” on illegal immigration in Prince William County.
Forty-six percent of those surveyed indicated that immigration had had either no effect on them personally or has had a positive effect. A total of 79 percent stated that they like their neighborhoods and 56.9 percent said that they planned to stay in their neighborhood in the next 5 years.
Yet, 53 percent of residents in the Weems and Sumner Lakes neighborhoods surveyed stated that the U.S. should take decisive action to deport illegal immigrants, and/or blamed them for depleting local resources such as health care and education. Some expressed strong anti-immigrant sentiments as indicated by the statements: “The place is being barraged with Latinos…Everywhere you go, there are swarms of them,” and, “Can I send them on a bus and load it up until they all speak English?” Others were more moderate in their sentiments, citing the issue of immigrants having entered the country illegally as a key concern.
“Our research suggests that the changes that have taken place in Manassas in the last 20 years have been unsettling for some residents,” says Debra Lattanzi Shutika, assistant professor of English at Mason. “Many of these residents seemed to be experiencing what I have identified as a type of ‘localized displacement’—they feel out of place in their home community. In some cases, residents told us that they found it difficult to adapt to the changes taking place around them, and that these changes that made their ‘home’ seem unfamiliar.”
“Homeowners naturally want their investments to appreciate,” says Cleaveland, a faculty member in Mason’s Department of Social Work. “What becomes problematic is turning this discussion into one about the presence of a particular group of people, and creating a social issue in which a certain segment of the population is targeted. We would have hoped for a debate and response that concerned trash pick-up, parking and overcrowding, instead of one in which a particular group is singled out as problematic.”
[EDITOR NOTE: Thread moved to current location because of continued interest. M-H 11/22/09]
On the idea of this report (is it available online?) – seems to me a more fundmantally meaningful report would attempt to quantify what actually did happen here objectively, and how it happened.
It’s my perception that our area was targeted for takeover more or less by Latino realtors, and that flyers were circulating around Mexico with maps to PWC on them. This collusion may have been explicit and planned. Even if not, it did happen in a real sense.
Just how many illegal immigrants were living here? What drew them here? How many per house were there? Seems to me inyerviews with 104 of them and some objective statistics would be meaningful. Perhaps more meaningful that just a study of how the gringos felt about what they saw happening.
@Wolverine
Wolverine, once again, your thoughtful comments are appreciated! More later on the details, but have you heard of the PEP (Parents as Educational Partners) program? Teachers work with immigrant parents to learn about the school system and how to help their children succeed. This is a cost-effective, proven effective program that really needs to be marketed and better publicized. Most people who do not have kids in school don’t know about the program. Neither do many parents whose kids DO go to school.
There is the myth that immigrant parents, especially Hispanic parents, don’t care about education. Yet, there are thousands of immigrants enrolled in adult ESOL classes, and there aren’t enough classes to service them all. This stuff really needs to be made known to the public to dispel the myths and prejudices.
More later…
@Elena
When did I write the majority of immigrants were here “illegally”?
Furthermore, you know full well that good statistics on illegal immigration are extraordinarily hard to come by. With regards to Manassas and Prince William, there are none. I know you know that. It’s a baited question like that, in response to a very legitimate argument, that suggests to me you are interested in slandering political opposition.
I followed the link thinking the report was available online but it is only just a few paragraph longer version of what is posted here. I couldn’t find anyway to get it online unless I’m missing something. Would be interesting to read further details on what “conclusions” they drew from all these interviews, or all the data collected, which I guess might be in the full report. I do think Sumner Lake was an extremely poor choice for them to make, to base one half of the neighborhoods they interviewed. Also, odd that both neighborhoods were inside the City of Manassas. If you want to do a report about PWC, how about at least balancing it geographically (maybe a neighborhood from Manassas outside the city limits like Westgate) and a neighborhood from Woodbridge area which I understand parts of that area are also hard hit by the same problems as the Manassas area.
That is a real problem – there are only estimates of how many illegal immigrants are here (either in PWC or in the USA as a whole). There’s no real accurate way of knowing exactly how many there are. Estimates for USA as a whole seem to vary from 12 million to 20 million, which is a huge variance.
I’m not sure this study even covers any new ground. None of the findings in the short summary seem that much of a surprise. Indeed, what is less known is how the flood of Hispanic immigrants (both legal and illegal) into this area really got started.
I do think that’s right about realtors (some of which are Hispanic) targeting this area due to its affordable housing and perceived job opportunities (construction industry, etc.). They are at the very least in a big way responsible for the resulting housing crash in PWC, NOT the resolution. Too bad someone doesn’t make an objective study of THAT. This study seems to be a waste of time – who couldn’t guess some of the results on their own without going “door to door” asking questions? Probably another wasted “research grant” in academia.
Maybe I should find the Brookings institute report, that was extremely comprehensive, let me work on it.
Matt,
you said:
“Also, the influx of immigrants – a great many of whom were indeed here illegal – placed an extraordinary strain on Prince William and Manassas’s education and health system.”
I interpreted your statement as suggesting there was a majority who were here illegally. I also wonder about this statement:
“But the question remains: why should people who have spent a lifetime living in Prince William County and Manassas stand idly by while their property values drop, their quality of life decreases, their neighborhoods become more dangerous, their schools offer a poorer education, and their access to medical care become more limited? It seems extraordinarily masochistic to say that one simply has to stand and watch their community’s degradation, and outright slander to say any efforts to restore things to the way they were are based on race.”
What does illegal immigration have to do with this statement? If your premise is based on the lantino race, what is it based on?
When you have a town in America
Where ads for houses are being plasered on outside walls in Spanish, not English
Bragging about loans available, no ID required
No good comes out of it.
plastered I mean, sorry
There are other universities that are sending out students to research, interview, film, record and write about people in our city and our county — GMU and American University are two I can name. And you can expect to see more student projects taking place in the spring semester, especially with the 2010 Census.
When something happens, like what we have all been going through in the last couple of years — and continue to go through, you can expect journalists, students, filmmakers, etc. to document it, study it and try to give us the bigger picture that we don’t see because we’re so close to it. Just because something happened in Westgate or Point of Woods, doesn’t make what happens in Weems or Sumner Lake any less important. If you live in Bristow or Gainesville, you may not have the vacant houses and crime, but you’re affected by this. We all have been.
My life has changed dramatically. I can remember when Father Bob Menard from Unity in the Community came with me to a City Council meeting, to offer me support to stand up and speak at citizen’s time about the KKK flyers. Tonight I’m meeting with a group of people who want to start their own neighborhood leaders group in the City of Manassas — in Georgetown South. At the City’s Neighborhood Conference last Saturday, I watched two Point of Woods neighborhoods that hadn’t spoken to each other in years, get up and jointly accept a neighborhood award for their hard work over the past six months. These neighborhoods continue to take action despite all the stereotyping and dissing.
Elena, Alana, Moon, Lafayette — all of you can say the same. You’ve taken a lot of flack, but you’ve made a difference in your communities and life is not the same since you took action.
Here’s the link to The Brookings Institute’s study. It is far more balanced then that BS just out from GMU.
http://www.brookings.edu/reports/2009/03_metro_demographic_trends.aspx
Cindy, the American University study seems to be on hold. They are still gathering information, but I think it’s gowing in a different direction than originally thought.
I am NOT saying what happened in the City is any less important in way, shape or form. However, I’m still questioning focusing on two neighborhoods that are NOT directly impacted by the County’s Resolution. Shame on them, and I will NOT back down on this one.
I agree, I’m also unhappy about once again the City being used in an unfair way in some report based on the county’s resolution! It’s really shameful, and such a “scholarly study” should be above such nonsense. How hard is it by some in the NOVA area to distinguish the city of Manassas from the area surrounding it? Is it just laziness or what? It’s almost laughable that a study about PWC would feature two neighborhoods not even really in the county.
Someone ought to contact the authors of this “study” and let them know how foolish they were using Sumner Lake as a representative neighborhood – and also really give it to them about using 2 neighborhoods within City of Manassas for a “study” about PWC. Would be interesting to hear their response to them being challenged on these issues.
GR, is not almost laughable it IS laughable, and discredits GMU. It’s not that hard to distinguish the two if you reall try. Not to mention there are times that the City of Manassas wants to distance itself from the Manassas in PWC. However, the City just forked over $25K to a group planning events for the 150th Anniversary of The First Battle of Manassas which took place mostly in the County of Prince William and not the City of Manassas. They seem more than eager to be a part of this though. It’s very frustrating.
I am seriously thinking about doing this myself. I feel very justified in doing so since I did actually take time out of my day for this BS. Blood boiling.
Thanks for finding this Lafayette, maybe I will go through it and try to find the summations for people to discuss.
whoops, meant to quote Laf on this one!
@Elena
Again, you seem determined to make very real quality of life concerns – crime, education, medical care, property values – a litmus test on one’s attitude about race. It’s unseemly and it’s insulting to those who don’t want to live in a community with a gangs, overcrowding, poor schools, and little access to the emergency room.
The fact that you insist about making this about racial attitudes is revealing indeed.
Matt,
Lets be real, the issue is about Latino’s moving into neighborhoods……”speak english” etc. It is about demographic change, WHATEVER the ethnic group may be. Today it’s latino’s, tomorrow who knows.
No, it isn’t.
It’s about gangs, it’s about education, it’s about access to the emergency room, it’s about revenue collected versus services provided, it’s about sanitation, and property values.
The fact that you can dismiss these concerns, and make everything about race, suggests to me you care less about the quality of life for the people of Prince William County and Manassas, and more about presenting yourself as some sort of civil rights champion.
Elena, it’s not about any specific group of illegal aliens, because they are here from all around the globe. The first confirmed illegals in my neighborhood were African. Yes, they were illegal aliens they were paid nice visits from ICE.
Interesting. And immigrants aren’t the people of Prince William County and Manassas?
Actually they are. I am getting a sense of preprietary ownership of some of our resources that really doesn’t exist.
For example, Lafayette might pay thousands of dollars in taxes more than I do. It is no more her libary than it is mine.
That’s just the reality of the situation whether we like it or not. Same with schools. Before we even get into illegal vs legal immigrants, it is no more Abigail Adams, the GGGGG granddaughter of the name sake’s school than it is Pedro Ruez’s school or Bridget O’Connell’s school.
It is remarkable how fast people will combine the issues of immigration and illegal immigration – an obvious attempt to muddle the problem, as well as dismiss concerns about illegal immigration.
Yup, I learned that from FAIR, Matt. I will stop doing it when people stop assuming everyone Latino is illegal.
No one here is dismissing concerns about illegal immigration. However before you go off on a rampage, make sure you are ready to tell me how you know someone is illegal.
As a GMU alum, I wonder what happened to all of the “evidence-based practice” and “targeted research” that was preached to us. They go to Sumner Lake to find out how illegal immigration and the PWC Resolution has impacted that cozy little community in the City?
May I suggest to the so-called “researchers” conduct a similar comprehensive study of the impacts and attitudes in PWC–perhaps focusing on gated communities with the strictest HOA’s? Now that would be interesting. At least it would be geographically accurate.
Emma,
HAHA!! I’m laughing so hard…focus on gated communities. They probably wouldn’t get any further than the gate. It makes absolutely no sense what so ever why they focused on Weems & Sumner Lake. I totally agree they’d be geographically accurate and would be “focusing” on those that are directly effected by the resolution.
“It is about demographic change”
Elena, I’m a relatively open-minded person, with no tendancy towards social conservatism. I have friends from different countries. I listen to music of different cultures – Balinese Gamelan music is my favorite. I watch films from all over the world, constantly. And I never had any qualms, from college on through life in Northern Virginia, with living next to people from other countries. I would frequently welcome the cultural exchange.
And, when the house next to me was inhabited by non-English speaking Latinos starting in 2005 I think, my initial reaction was to try to be friendly, and my wife and I did have a somewhat friendly relationship with several of the people there, albeit expressed non-verbally.
It was only after concrete problems manifested themselves, and the people there (more accurately, one of them) made it clear that they had no interest in resolving problems cordially that I had an issue with the situation.
I don’t accept that I am being xenophobic or any such thing. I feel that my anger is entirely justified, from facts.
The element of Americans’ anger that I don’t think you get or acknowledge is this – we’re angry because the rules aren’t being followed. Time and again Americans are required to play by “the rules” while those with wealth don’t have to. The laws of the land are used against us rather than for our collective good. Demographic change among citizens would be one thing. Demographic change fueled by illegal behavior, tolerated only because it reduces wages in America, is another.
Perhaps GMU would find it instructive for their own strategic planning to fund a study as to why cats and dogs don’t sh!t where they eat.
Rick, if you hadn’t gotten in to the thick of it with the toad who was your neighbor, would you care about the other things? Let’s say you just read about illegal immigration?
Emma, I think most of us here are trying to figure out why low impact communities were selected for a study on the impact of illegal immigration on neighborhoods.
Cindy, I agree with your earlier statement that everyone was impacted. Yes. However, many people were impacted far more severely than others. Degrees. For instance, and I know he won’t mind, Gainesville Resident has taken us through the saga of his 20 year residency in Point of Woods. He watched his neighborhood deteriorate until the point where his next door neighbors were breaking into his house and stealing his possessions.
I was impacted somewhat in my neighborhood and very much so in my job. However, at the end of the day, I would say there is no comparison between what happened with GR and the limited impact immigration has had on me.
“Rick, if you hadn’t gotten in to the thick of it with the toad who was your neighbor, would you care about the other things? Let’s say you just read about illegal immigration?”
I’ve thought about that. I think that I would have the same basic view of the issue, but be less disturbed about it in proportion to other issues. I’d probably still be a card-carrying Democrat with faith in Obama, Pelosi, Reid, and all worked up about their approach to health care, as friends of mine are. Instead, I’ve lost faith in these so-called “leaders”.
I think that my natural life’s arc away from liberalism and towards conservatism, and the natural arc away from accepting liberal judicuial activism as valid social progress, was rapidly accelerated by my experience with my neighbors and my neighborhood.
My African-American (i.e. black) wife isn’t especially happy to be married to someone who votes for Repuiblicans as often as not these days … I am an independent voter, but one so deeply disillusioned that I want to throw up when I think about politics. I used to be a political junkie, now I can’t stand to watch “The Daily Show” or “Meet the Press”. It’s all complete nonsense. Politics is a dirty, senseless business which is just an exercise in power and cronyism executed behind a smokescreen of principle or ideology.
On this health care debate, isn’t it obvious that Democrats will do anything to get a bill through, pass any irresponsible nonsense (“we’ll fix it later!” [famous last words])? And isn’t it obvious the GOP will oppose anything for the chance to pick up seats in 2010?
And thank you for listening to my rants, as I’ve sublimated that slight knowledge of and interest in national politics that I used to have into endless rants on here.
@ Rick
I totally agree. I would also like to add that in order for anyone to get elected, they have to be a whore. There are too many different ‘groups’ in this county. They all end up collecting into 2 big cesspools–cesspools of political whores.
I imagine your wife doesn’t care much for the ‘New Rick.’
I do think Jon Stewart is hilarious. I think Glenn Beck is also funny. However I think he is far more dangerous than Jon Stewart. Stewart is a comedian. (and a darn good one!)
I parted company with the Republican party after Bush 1 bellied on up with the Jerry Falwells of the world. The moral majority and the religious wrong did me in. Your neighborhood made you switch. the Moral majority did it to me.
Rick,
I understand, I do, we had neighbors in my old neighborhood from other parts of the world, NOT latin America, and not all were friendly, to say the least. But I wouldn’t assume there was an illegal immigration problem because they didn’t speak English and did not know that the trash company would not take old car batteries (had to finally tell them after four weeks of the trash company, coming….and….going, that it WASN’T going to get picked up and this is where you need to take it yourself).
Lafayette,
Africans? As far as I can tell, EVERY single comment coming from HSM and BVBL and most people who complain about “illegal” immigration is directed towards those people who speak spanish. Sure there are others here who don’t have proper status, but the focus is on our southern border and press “2” for spanish that seems to rile people the most!
Rick,
Your wife and I can comiserate, my hubby is a staunch republican, and yet I still married him 🙂
Rick,
Do you know what I remember about the medicare prescription debate? This. Republicans saying “look, even AARP and the AMA has endoresed our plan” and Dems responding with “but it costs too much, there is a better way, just force drug companies to cut prices and sell in bulk to medicare like they do the Veterans Administration”. Now the converse is in place, the AARP and the AMA have endorsed the current basis of the health care overhaul and the Repubs could care less saying it costs too much! It’s all becoming just noise to me.
Elena, yes, Africans. You sound as if you doubt me. I said that they were the first illegal aliens that *I* remember/had dealings with in our neighborhood. ICE raided the house two times, and a third visit would’ve resulted in seizure of the property. I spoke of this house back in my days on bvbl. I guess some weren’t paying attention carefully enough. My mom almost got mowed down when five fled the house and ran through my mom’s backyard as she was hanging her clothes out to dry. I can’t tell you why some only focus on the Spanish speaking. I can and always have only spoke for myself, and told the instances like they were. I never need/used HSM talking points from problems outside of the area. I had enough real issues with pictures to back up my many concerns of my neighborhood.
I”m not doubting you Laf, it just that when people talk about the “crisis” of illegal immigrants, it isn’t about Africans, its about spanish speaker. Its like when people call every latino “mexican”, its just where I have heard the focus on “who” to target when people talk about the immigration issues in their neighborhoods.
“Now the converse is in place” … “It’s all becoming just noise to me.”
Agreed.
“when people talk about the “crisis” of illegal immigrants, it isn’t about Africans, its about spanish speaker. ”
Because it’s refugees from Mexico and Central and South America who are the crisis. But I’ve never heard a single solitary soul call for treating Latinos differently from any other ethnic group.
“I imagine your wife doesn’t care much for the ‘New Rick.’ ”
She just doesn’t like to hear me go on about politics too much. To be fair, she never did. If I tell her something that surprises her, like that I’m going to vote for Bob “F-word” McDonnell, she asks me why, I tell her, and that’s that.
To clarify on Jon Stewart, I don’t find him dangerous. I just find it so disheartening to pay any attention to political matters. All the satire in the world didn’t prevent Bush’s re-election in 2004, to ostensibly fix the very problems he caused, and after he almost begged in the first Presdiental Election to give someone else the job. After that, I couldn’t bear to watch the Daily Show anymore. And at this point, politics pains me because I feel that we the people really have no dog in that fight. Cesspools of whores, I agree, and as someone who didn’t see it that way say 5 years ago, it pains me.
@CindyB
BRAVO CINDY!!!
@Elena
Didn’t really think you doubted me. It is important to remember I was not spouting generalizations like many others. I spoke/wrote of my real life dealings with neighborhood issues. I don’t know why some say the things they do. There are some people in this world that simply are not happy unless they have something to bitch about. I’ve NEVER once thought everyone that spoke Spanish was “Mexican”…that’s just plain stupid, but it doesn’t stop some from making such foolish statements. I’ve always tried to not villify anyone, but I will “call ’em, like I see ’em”.
There are illegal aliens from Africa for sure. Many are with family in the health care industry from what I have been told. One of the local ones was a child molester several years ago. They obviously didn’t do a border crossing illegally. Expect this to become more of a problem as the population ages and we have fewer health care workers available.
Yes, I agree that HSM was formed by some people with sincere concerns. GL took those well-intentioned people and got them tangled up in one hot mess as far as I’m concerned. On that note, Miller shouldn’t be painted with a broad brush as having been enthusiastic about GL or having “used” HSM. As a citizen of Manassas who voted for Miller and Colgan, I can tell you that Miller tried to be a voice of reason with GL and HSM. He tried, and there were several very well-intentioned HSM people who tried too who have since left the group when they realized it was a vehicle for GL’s ego trip. Miller defended Chief Deane loudly when GL attacked him. GL attacked Colgan and and Chief Deane, two men I think very highly of. You can infer my opinion of GL …
IWK–loud and clear.
I believe there were people involved in the formation with sincere intentions and concerns. However, who was the engine driving that train? I don’t think the engineer was ever sincere. I think some good people were used fuel an election.
IWK-You’ve made very interesting points. There were many well-intentioned folks in HSM. However, once that “Gospel Greg” video came out several members asked to have their membership withdrawn, and then the Chief Deane attack certainly made me leave HSM. I’m sure that there were others that did the same.
HSM was “sold” as not being about either political party and it would support those that supported their cause. The funny thing is they never supported any one unless their name was followed by an R. I really think HSM really is a PAC. (imo)
I’m now thinking about to the early days of HSM. The HSM board was mostly City of Manassas residents and a few of them had ran for City Council before and couple even after the “birth” of HSM. I bet we see one man that got beat in the convention in 2007, and then again last year when now Judge Steve Smith’s seat was open the Council chose Ms. Bass. The Council did right by not going with the right-winger.