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88 Thoughts to “Open Thread”
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Blogroll
- 9500Liberty
- Bacons' Rebellion Blogspot
- Bearing Drift
- Blue Virginia
- Citizen Tom
- Counts of Monte Cristo. The
- Derecho, The
- Dixie Pig, The
- My Side of the Fence
- My Star Journey
- NARAL Pro-Choice VA Blog
- New Dominion Project
- Nova Common Sense
- NovaTownHall Blog
- One Libertarians's Point of View by Al Alborn
- Pete Candland's Blog
- Potomac Local
- Prince William Muckraker
- PW Conservation Alliance
- PWC Moms
- PWCPolitics.com
- PWCPolitics.com
- Red NoVA
- Shad Plank, The
- She the People
- State of NoVA, the
- The Jeffersoniad
- Townhall
- VEA Daily Reports
- VivianPaige
- WDGolden.com
- You, Me and the Lamp Post
Why do we need Illegal Immigrant admendments on the Health Care Bill?? Why create yet another unenforceable mandate? More regulation, more bureaucracy?
The laws are already on the books that you cannot hire immigrants (or anyone for that matter) without first verifying their eligibility to work – why not enforce what is already there before creating new laws and regulations?
The answer is because big employers like the system as it is, with loosy goosy enforcement, and the ability to claim dumb when caught. Laws are created for those that want to follow the law, for those who break the law, the law does not matter.
How on earth do we put health care to an honest vote?
Health care really isn’t a reward system. I don’t think the purpose is to weed out illegal behavior. I think its point is to provide health care coverage.
Frankly, I am tired of all the external reasons obscuring discussion on health care. No one knows what’s in it because people want to throw their favorite pet cause in. We can’t have it because someone somewhere might be able to squeeze in an abortion. This isn’t a direct pay but a secondary or terciary result. Now we can’t have it because an ‘llegal’ somewhere might slip in and get health care. And we don’t want them using their own money to buy it either.
The above isn’t an endorsement of the health care package, any of them. It is damnation of all the issues obscuring honest discussion.
“The laws are already on the books that you cannot hire immigrants (or anyone for that matter) without first verifying their eligibility to work – why not enforce what is already there before creating new laws and regulations?”
Well, clearly, we the people need to MAKE our “representatives” do this. We need to send them a message loud and clear. Hopefully if and when this health care bill doesn’t happen in some part because of this issue, it will send a message to the democratic Party that they need to deal with this issue, before indulging in any more of their irresponsible giveaways.
The laws used to be on the books for marijuana. Nevertheless there was an era when it was smoked publicly, often. Eventually the law was enforced.
Laws need to be tweaked to fit our needs. Obviously they don’t now.
Haven’t been out to Nissan lately? re smoking open.
No, i was wondering about that. I do go to rock-oriented clubs with crowds less than 1000 people, say 9:30 Club or the Black Cat, and I never see it there.
Not as much anonymity?
Dear Mr. President:
I’m planning to move my family and extended family into Mexico for my health, and I would like to ask you to assist me.
We’re planning to simply walk across the border from the U..S. into Mexico, and we’ll need your help to make a few arrangements.
We plan to skip all the legal stuff like visas, passports, immigration quotas and laws.
I’m sure they handle those things the same way you do here. So, would you mind telling your buddy, President Calderon, that I’m on my way over?
Please let him know that I will be expecting the following:
1. Free medical care for my entire family.
2. English-speaking government bureaucrats for all services I might need, whether I use them or not.
3. Please print all Mexican government forms in English..
4. I want my grandkids to be taught Spanish by English-speaking (bi-lingual) teachers.
5. Tell their schools they need to include classes on American culture and history.
6. I want my grandkids to see the American flag on one of the flag poles at their school.
7. Please plan to feed my grandkids at school for both breakfast and lunch.
8. I will need a local Mexican driver’s license so I can get easy access to government services.
9. I do plan to get a car and drive in Mexico, but, I don’t plan to purchase car insurance, and I probably won’t make any special effort to learn local traffic laws.
10. In case one of the Mexican police officers does not get the memo from their president to leave me alone, please be sure that every patrol car has at least one English-speaking officer.
11. I plan to fly the U.S. flag from my house top, put U.S. flag decals on my car, and have a gigantic celebration on July 4th. I do not want any complaints or negative comments from the locals.
12. I would also like to have a nice job without paying any taxes, or have any labor or tax laws enforced on any business I may start.
13. Please have the president tell all the Mexican people to be extremely nice and never say critical things about me or my family, or about the strain we might place on their economy.
14. I want to receive free food stamps.
15. Naturally, I’ll expect free rent subsidies.
16. I’ll need Income tax credits so although I don’t pay Mexican taxes, I’ll receive money from the government.
17. Oh yes, I almost forgot, please enroll me free into the Mexican Social Security program so that I’ll get a monthly income in retirement.
I know this is an easy request because you already do all these things for all his people who walk over to the U.S. from Mexico. I am sure that President Calderon won’t mind returning the favor if you ask him nicely.
Thank you so much for your kind help. You’re the man!!!
Oh no, THAT’S not stereotyping. Nahhhhhh……
BTW, this was copied from an email I received. Not an SA original. It rings rather true however! Show me the error in the content. Mexico certainly wouldn’t reciprocate the support we provide their citizens to US citizens crossing the border into their realm. That’s a fact Jack!
Certainly not an SA original that thing was around way before our current President took office. Mexico most definately would NOT reciprocate.
They don’t have those things for all their citizens.
I was going to ask which President was going to get the email.
Aunt Zetuni made the news today :
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091201/ap_on_re_us/us_obama_aunt
She is STILL living in government-subsidized housing WHILE here illegally.
AND has enough money (undoubtably from some Obama booster) to have a private lawyer, WHILE living in the subsidized housing.
Corey Stewart on the economy on Channel 5 this morning.
http://www.myfoxdc.com/dpp/news/virginia/prince-william-economy-120109
Rick, if she were your biological aunt and nothing more, what would YOU do about it?
Obviously Obama isn’t touching this one. You know all it would take is a phone call and she would be legal. He, to his credit, said the law must be followed.
We are talking about the half sister of a father that deserted Obama when he was two. He saw him once when he was 10. Why are we trying to make a relationship out of all this? I would say Auntie A and Barack SR were not close. Auntie is 57 and the old man would be 73 if he were still alive. I would suggest that she is being opportunistic.
“Rick, if she were your biological aunt and nothing more, what would YOU do about it?”
Who knows? I can sit here and say, I’d encourage her to self-deport, and if I were rich I’d offer to reimburse the US government for the cost of the subsidized housing.
“Obviously Obama isn’t touching this one.”
I disagree. Who’s paying for her lawyer? Presumably some Democratic slush fund. Why did the judge at her last hearing, a known hard-ass, let her stay? Because he is afraid to offend the Adminstration. She is by no means being treated like everyone else.
“Why are we trying to make a relationship out of all this? ”
There is a relationship there, he has affection for her. But it’s pretty embarassing for him that this happened while he pushes for “comprehensive” immigration reform, i.e. Amnesty for those who stayed here and lived in Section 8 housing.
It would be a real boon to self-deportation if we policed Section 8 Housing, made a rule that if you let anyone illegal into your Section 8 unit then you lose it. LOADS of illegal immigrants live in Section 8 housing under some relative’s name. This happens in our own area. These day laborers on Coverstone rather obviously live in the Section 8 Housing on Coverstone Avenue. It’s one of the many “hidden costs” that our government colludes to keep us from knowing.
Rick, how do you know how Obama feels about his aunt? If he felt that much affection he would make a phone call.
All of Coverstone is not section 8 housing, or at least it didn’t used to be. I have mixed feelings about section 8 housing anyway. Real mixed and most of them are not good.
It looks like more ladies are crawling out of Tiger’s wood pile. Bring on the golf clubs.
The point is, not all Mexicans don’t pay taxes, don’t want to learn English, don’t obey driving rules…get my point? Those are the kinds of stereotypes that lead to prejudice. I am not saying certain people don’t do this because they do. But to say it about all Mexicans in that way is damaging.
“All of Coverstone is not section 8 housing, or at least it didn’t used to be. ”
There’s a big area of Section 8 housing there. And these day laborers who collude with the ACLU to undermine loitering laws almost surely live there, taxpayer subsidized.
Meanwhile, there is new housing near Coverstone, which is also Section 8, which was built in the past few years, paid for outright or heavily subsidized by the Federal and/or State governments. The work force was obviously largely illegal. The workplace had signs in Spanish, not English, visible from the highway. The illegal immigrants procured jobs building the place on taxpayer money, and now they and/or others live there with their cost of living subsidized by the government.
The connection between illegal immigration and Section 8 Housing is real, poorly understood, and deliberately obfuscated by our government. Which is why I for one am into this Aunt Zetuni story with both sets of incisors. Let’s understand what’s going on here, the hidden but very real costs of illegal immigration and the amount of tax dollars our government uses to help illegal immigrants.
Any government that cared about the problem of illegal immigration, that wasn’t angling for Amnesty, would implement a simple rule that Section 8 needs to weed the Aunt Zetunis who aren’t legal residents off the books, and would implement a rule that if the renter is caught sheltering illegal immigrants they lose their apartment. BUT NO. Our government continually encourages people to bear down and stay here, rather than leave.
How does a person get section 8 housing?
My friend’s sister lived in a very nice lake front community in Florida. She paid about 400k for her house. When the foreclosures hit, many people went into a section 8 housing arrangement. So now Vicki is living in her dream home on a lake with next door neighbors with a sofa in the driveway. About 1/3 of the houses in that community are section 8 which has brought the home values down 60%. Now that is just dead wrong.
So my grouse with section 8 is so much deep seated that it doesn’t even get to illegal immigrants. Here is my question, how do you know that the coverstone folks are illegal (the section 8 ones?) Was it even determined that those arrested for tresspassing were illegal? If it was the set up I think it was, it would make sense to make certain those arrested were documented.
clarification: I don’t mind affordable housing being built like Coverstone. I would far rather have that than the Florida situation.
Rick, Westgate had a huge problem with overcrowding. While we cannot determine who is legal and who isn’t, lets assume that some of those people were illegal immigrants, for the sake of argument.
Would you rather have illegal immigrants living in an established neighborhood, 20 to a house or would you rather have them live in low income housing? After driving around Westgate in the aftermath, I already know where my vote would go and my vote would be money ahead.
Of course I don’t KNOW they’re illegal. I would love for someone to make the effort to find out. Unfortunately my government couldn’t care less.
If we implemented Rule of Law the way i preferred it, the tresspassers would be identified as undocumented, then held and sent to ICE. And if my government were responsible, they’d be further detained and then deported. But I suspect they’re happily living in the Section 8 housing on our dimes, even as they collude with the ACLU to lower standard of living in PWC.
How does a person get Section 8? They apply, and get on a waiting list I think if their income is low enough. Then they get vouchers or something redeemable with landlords who rent to Section 8 renters. The renters have to be legal residents. But I suspect that many have illegal immigrants living with them. Sometimes in loads.
“Would you rather have illegal immigrants living in an established neighborhood, 20 to a house or would you rather have them live in low income housing? ”
They’re both unacceptable situations. They need to go make something out of their own countries.
My government’s position is : they may or may not be illegal, who knows, but in addition to subsidizing their housing and giving them food stamps and paying for their children’s ESOL classes and paying to incarcerate some of them, we must can should etc. give them guaranteed health care ASAP.
My position on emergency health care for illegal immigrants is, they should be able to access it. But afterwards they should be taken into custody and deported.
I see a no win situation here.
Rick, do you think you would feel this strongly had your own neighborhood not been impacted to the degree that it was?
I don’t know what else the govt can do. Citizens like you fight CIR bills. Much is broken and outdated. Still no one wants to tweak the laws. Nothing suits.
No, I would not feel as strongly had I not seen what happened in my own neighborhood.
What the government can do is eventually implement the will of the people. I don’t actually want a change to laws so much as an honorable government that will enforce its own laws.
When has the govt ever implemented the will of the people? Which people. Half are one way and half are the other.
Apparently the govt cant enforce its own laws. They need to have laws that fit the needs of the country and are enforceable.
They could enforce the laws. They choose not to.
If the illegal immigrant population was costing employers rather than helping them to lower wages, the problem would have been dealth with.
Let’s narrow this concept of enforcing the laws down so it can be discussed. Immigration laws are extremely complicated. Name me one thing specifically that you feel the feds aren’t doing. Let’s look at it and determine why they aren’t doing it.
Business always manages to get around things. Look at the outsourcing. Is it legal? yes. Is it the right thing to do? Probably not.
“Name me one thing specifically that you feel the feds aren’t doing.”
Acting on complaints when coworkers tip them off that an employer has hired illegal aliens. There is a web site http://www.wehirealiens.com , full of complaints and doubtlessly thousands more sitting in drawers, files by Americans displaced by illegal aliens.
Our government’s response is “oh well”.
It’s “An Inconvenient Truth” that lower-class American workers are laid off to make way for illegal workers, and that our government actively colludes in this.
Rick, do the feds have the personnel to bust employers? How much investigative work is required? Who owns the website? If the website belongs to Joe Blow, I can understand why the feds don’t go charging in. Are any employers busted for hiring illegal aliens? If so, how many per month? How many ICE agents are there to handle the job?
Beyond the website, ICE gets letters, e-mails, and phone calls with specific complaints.
They don’t investigate, because they don’t have enough resources, because Congress chooses not to enforce the law.
Congress inherited a bunch of laws from the 80’s. Congress is in a continual state of flux. How can you make them aware of your areas specific needs?
It makes sense that congressman A who was elected in 2006 doesn’t feel compelled to even know what all the immigration laws are. I don’t think it is as much they don’t care as it is they don’t know. And if they do know then there is the balancing act of getting re-elected. Why would anyone want to do something that would turn them into an electorial pariah?
I see a conundrum forming before my very eyes–probably the reason you and I have such negative feelings on politics but can’t seem to leave them alone either.
Congress has a responsibility to provide funding to implement the laws of this land. Certainly they have this responsibility before they have any towards “health care reform”, or 90% of the rest of their agenda. We don’t need them to make new laws so much as bother to enforce the ones on the books. This is a basic, fundamental thing that they’re failing at.