If one believes the various blogs, the Washington State cop killer could very much impact the next presidential election. 4 police officers were gunned down, execution style, in a coffee shop near Tacoma, Washington over the weekend by what appears to be a lone gunman.
The alleged shooter who has been identified as one Maurice Clemmons was sentenced to 95 years for all sorts of ugly violent crimes in Arkansas back in 1989. In 2000, he was granted clemency and released by then Governor Mike Huckabee. Bloggers are comparing this clemency to Willie Horton which cratered the presidential candidacy of Michael Dukakis in 1988. It appears Democrats have long memories.
Clemmons is still on the lamb. The 4 police officers were all parents and had been with the police department for years. Don’t expect this one to go away. In fairness to Huckabee, details of the clemency have not been released.
Clemmons was released on bond 7 days ago in Washington State. He had been arrested for 2nd degree rape of a minor. The bail was $150,000. He had to pay $15,000 and the bail bondsman footed the rest. He sounds like a very, very bad person. He has a long rap sheet covering a myriad of crimes. 9 children are now missing a parent because of this senseless violence.
UFB! Yet, MSM is covering Tigress Woods and his running into a tree and not this horrific story. Geesh
This is a truly heartbreaking story, and I’m very interested in the reasons then Govenor Huckabee granted this cold-blooded cop(s) killer clemency. I hope they catch this guy soon…you never where or who might go after next.
Clemmons was 17 when he committed the Arkansas crimes. That cuts no ice with me. If you commit deadly crimes, I don’t care if you are 5 years old or what kind of childhood you had. (not saying that is why he got out…I don’t know why.)
I just think about Old Yellar or Cujo if I even feel myself going soft on this issue.
I am so tired of Tiger Woods. So his wife beat him up. Good for her! He probably deserved it. 😉
Someone should write about how the African American community sees this much differently. To African Americans, the prevailing sentiment is that the alleged shooter was just giving the cops, “payback.” It would be an amazing story to reveal how so many Blacks have no sympathy for the cops (even when the cop is also Black).
Part of the reason for this stark difference between Whites and African Americans is that many in the Black community see the cops as always an untrustworthy tool of the government who are out to do something to them, or their loved ones, while Whites generally see cops as necessary umpires, who are generally trusted.
CNN should do a poll and ask if the cops were victims or were they just getting payback, then see how the answers split along racial lines, even more clearly than during the O.J. farce.
I think that this does put an end to the idea of Huckabee as a serious candidate.
If Huck was a Democrat, Fox News would have had him tarred, feathered and
run out of town on a rail by now.
Since he is a Republican and a made member of their Foxy gang—
Hey, who cares? Everyone makes mistakes, right?
Anyway, it is all Obama’s fault!! Just ask Hannity.
Excellent point, PR. He wouldn’t have even made it this far. But he is one of their own and not a word about Willie Horton or Mike Huckabee. And it will be Obama’s fault ultimately. You are right there also. I am laughing over the Foxy gang. LOL LOL
So what’s it down to for the GOP.
Palin/Beck
Thompson/Romney
Dobbs/ Paul
hmmm, what is it that they say on bvbl?, oh yes.
“Buy guns and Ammo!”
Moon-howler is running her finger down her throat at the above list.
Romney, Mr. Make Over might survive.
Romney is running a very low profile campaign right now which is exactly what he needs to do. Let everybody freak out over Palin & Huckabee but when it comes time for New Hampshire (Iowa is still a problem for Romney so it wouldn’t shock me if he skipped it.) Romney is going to be in a good position to come in as the quiet, reasonable guy that can appeal to moderates that have soured on Obama. The economy is almost certainly going to be a major issue in 2012 and the debt will be a top issue in at least the GOP primary. Romney is well positioned as an ‘economic candidate’ I don’t see any major challengers unless another ‘big fish’ gets in the race (like Gingrich or Armey)
By the way, I assume everyone has heard that Chelsea Clinton is engaged to the son of my favorite one term Congresswoman, Triple M. (Marjorie Margolies-Mezvinsky)
This case clearly demonstrates the failure of pseudo-compassion. Huckabee showed “compassion” to a violent criminal, rather than to his constituents at large. If any good can come out of such a violent crime, perhaps it is to serve as a reminder to governors and presidents that their misplaced “compassion” (to criminals, illegal aliens, hostile countries, etc). has consequences.
One can only hope that this incident will eliminate Huckabee as a serious candidate, but in the world of politics, one never really knows if the seven-headed monster is truly dead ….
That’s it, we’re out of candidates! This one hits me where it hurts.
I am not ready to put all illegal aliens in the same boat as child rapists. Not ready to put hostile countries in that same category either. The people of hostile countries might not be bad, just their governments.
Formerly, did Triple M used to be an anchor for NBC ch. 4?
Are you for real? You’re advocating spousal abuse? If this had been a woman who had been beaten by her husband, would you be so quick to say the same thing?
If there are any teabaggers looking for a rally to attend, please join fans of the New England Patriots who are holding a “Patriots Only Tea Party” to protest the outcome of tonight’s game vs. the undefeated New Orleans Saints. The Saints won 38-17, but Patriots fans intend to remain in denial for a year.
The rally will be televised by Fox News, who will also have reporters there passing out pamphlets to let distraught Patriots fans know that what they really oppose is health care reform.
If no one shows up, Fox News will show footage from the 2007 victory parade after the Patriots last Superbowl win, just to make it look good.
Harry, go screw yourself. I also defended Lorena Bobbitt.
Obviously to everyone but you, I was kidding around. She didn’t beat him up. NO one knows what happened. Don’t do a drive by here to see what you can stir up. You have not been missed.
So have the cops in Washington State found this low-life shooter?
As the nation prepares to send 34,000 innocent people into harms way with many of them destined not to return alive, we still refuse to terminate criminals who have taken multiple lives without cause. When will society get a backbone, and say enough is enough! We can’t even allow the military to deal with enemy combatants without society intervening wearing kid gloves, and every murderer is referred to as just a misunderstood individual. You have to ask yourself why is the level of domestic violent crime so much higher than it was 50 years ago, but then 50 years ago society didn’t play around. If someone got caught molesting a child back then they’d better have hoped that the police got to them before the parents did! Today the parents would be locked up for assault while the ‘alleged’ molester roams freely.
Seattle police kill suspect in officer slayings
By GENE JOHNSON
The Associated Press
Tuesday, December 1, 2009; 7:34 AM
SEATTLE — The man suspected of gunning down four police officers in a suburban coffee shop was shot and killed by Seattle police early Tuesday, a sheriff’s spokesman said.
Maurice Clemmons was shot to death in a working-class south Seattle neighborhood after police tracked him down using possible hiding spots supplied by Pierce County investigators, said Ed Troyer, a spokesman for the county sheriff.
At the scene, a couple of dozen police officers milled around, shaking hands and patting each other on the back after one of the largest manhunts in the region’s history.
Clemmons had stayed on the run for nearly two days with help from a network of friends and family who gave him places to stay, medical aid, rides and money, police said. On Monday, officers detained a sister of Clemmons who they think treated the 37-year-old suspect’s gunshot wound.
“We believe she drove him up to Seattle and bandaged him up,” Troyer said.
Police believe people close to Clemmons have misled officers, and Troyer said anyone helping him could face charges. Clemmons’ sister wasn’t in custody late Monday, and her name wasn’t released.
Authorities said the gunman singled out the Lakewood officers and spared employees and other customers at the coffee shop. He then fled, but not before he was apparently shot in the torso by one of the dying officers.
At least President Bush waited until the bodies were cold to create an issue out of such a tragedy.
That last sentence was mine; not from the Associated Press article. I had thought I had created a quotation for the article but must have remembered incorrectly how to do so. Apologies!
Huh, what is the AP article talking about?
I welcome the spectacle of the GOP seriously considering nomination of a Mormon candidate for the Presidency. It scared some of them so much last time that they got behind McCain.
Romney should convert his religion if he wants the GOP nomination. I don’t think he’ll play well with people like the woman who doesn’t trust Obama because he’s a Muslim. I smell tea party defections.
On Tiger Woods, it’s obvious what happened, and that’s why there’s an interesting story here. He didn’t run into a fire hydrant because he’d had a few drinks, or pills. It is, mark my words, because his wife wacked him on the head to the point that he had a concussion.
Rick,
I believe you are not taking two factors into account when dismissing Romney’s chances in 2008. First, the GOP has a long track record of nominating the ‘runner up’ from the previous primary. Ronald Reagan was the runner in 1980 after loosing to Ford in 1976. George H. W. Bush was runner up in 1980, turned VP and then got the nomination in 1988. McCain was the runner up in 2000 and got the nomination in 2008. Even in years when there hasn’t been a clear runner up, the GOP has tended to go with trusted names like Dole in 1996 or George W Bush in 2000. (I think it’s safe to say that the Bush family name and Rolodex was instrumental to George W Bush getting the nomination.) Romney and Huckabee were the two closest runners up in 2008 and Huckabee is dead in GOP politics after his ‘Willie Horton’ moment this week.
The second factor I believe you should consider is that the Republicans are going to nominate whoever they feel is going to have the best chance of beating Obama. That’s why McCain got the nomination in 2008 (along with the fact he was the runner up) He was seen as somebody more distant from George W Bush than the other candidates and thus more likely to appeal to voters who didn’t like George W Bush.
If Romney can keep the primary campaign on issues like the economy and government spending, he’ll have a good chance of getting the nomination. It wouldn’t surprise me at all to see Romney run a campaign very much like Reagan in 1980. (People forget that social conservatives weren’t very keen on Reagan, a divorcee who signed into law very liberal laws on abortion and divorce while Governor of California. He won over the fiscal conservatives and the social conservatives voted for him because he was “Not Carter”.) I suspect Romney will seal the deal with social conservatives the same way every other Republican since Reagan has. Promise them Supreme Court nominees they’ll like.
Let me be clear, I’m not drawing a comparison between Carter and Obama. I’m just saying that anybody with Romney’s resume and half a brain can see the course he needs to follow. In a way, Palin, Beck, et. al are helping Romney by making him look very moderate and reasonable in comparison.
Trivia: Since 1952, there have only been two Presidential elections in which the GOP did not have a candidate on the ballot with the name Bush, Dole or Nixon. 1964 and 2008. (And they lost both those races.)
I agree with you that the “runner up” theory usually holds, with GOP voters. But the runner-up was never Mormon before.
I smell civil war in the GOP.
I think that Obama will almost certainly win. The fact that he’s screwing up everything he touches won’t preclude that, as it didn’t for Geore W Bush.
Personally, I don’t put much stock in the civil war theory. Anderson tried it against Reagan and it failed and I think Reagan was much more of a divisive figure among the GOP in 1980 than Romney was in 2008 or will be in 2012. Rockefeller Republicans were a significant force back in those days, whereas now they are basically extinct. Also, I really don’t see Romney’s religion being a major factor. Besides, given how much the LDS Church has been involved in some of the gay marriage referendums, being a Mormon may not be that much of a negative in the GOP primary. Heck, in 1964 the GOP nominated Goldwater who was half Jewish. Remember the joke Goldwater made about only being able to play nine holes at a country club. (Back then many country clubs wouldn’t admit Jewish members, or women, or blacks, or Catholics, or…)
I do agree that Obama is likely to win in 2012, but it’s not going to be the cake walk that 2008 was. Virginia and North Carolina are almost certainly going to flip back to the GOP. Have you seen the SurveyUSA numbers on Virginia that came out this week. If you are a Democrat, you don’t want to read them. The GOP stands to gain 3 electoral votes through redistricting which will peel away EVs from California, New York and Michigan and move them to Texas & Utah. (Although if Congress remains in Democratic hands it wouldn’t surprise me if the 2012 election is held using the 2000 census data not 2010.) Again, this isn’t very likely, but it’s not impossible to imagine VA, NC, Nevada, Indiana, Florida, Ohio and New Mexico and flipping. That plus gains from redistricting could give the GOP a 271 electoral votes. (I ranked the states in rough likelihood of them voting GOP in 2012.) My own guess is that Ohio and New Mexico won’t flip which leaves Obama with 292 electoral votes. I’d give the GOP about a 35% chance of winning at this stage with Romney less than 20% chance with anybody else.
With all that said, it’s going to boil down to the economy. If GDP growth is under 2.0% in Q1 & Q2 2012, Obama is toast. If it’s over 3%, he is a shoe-in. Without getting into too much detail about what we do, GDP growth rate is a very accurate predictor of the incumbent party’s popularity.
I am not so sure that Romney can overcome being Mormon. It is also interesting to note that the Republican party was founded on being anti-slavery and anti-Mormon. No one likes to talk about that little tidbit.
Also there is a strong contingency out that that believes Mormons aren’t Christian, regardless of their official name: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Mormons don’t believe in the Trinity as other Christians do. They believe that each God-head is an individual by his own rights, not part of a collective body.
Interesting also that we have only had 1 Catholic prez and no Jewish prez.
I think the anti-Mormon sentiment is much stronger in the west and heartland than east coast. I just finished re-watching Ken Burns’ The West and I paid close attention because of this very issue.
Huckabee manned up and discussed the clemency. He said that he changed it from 99 years (or something like that) to 49 years. Somehow that set the ball rolling.
At least he was given a chance to explain.
I was rather hoping that Clemmons had crawled off somewhere and died. No muss no fuss.
Certainly a very unfortunate turn of events with regard to Huckabee. But something else did occur to me in all of this. Every governor in every state, regardless of party, is only one decision away from a similar fate. If I recall correctly, Huckabee said that he had to deal with something like 1200 such cases that particular year. Governors get a folder on each case, can hardly be expected to know each individual personally, and have to depend on the opinions of prosecutors, judges, and other professional experts, as well as parole boards. Unless a governor is determined to never, ever give a break to any convicted criminal, his decisions in these matters depend upon his reading of the professionalism of the provided opinions and his own gut instincts, as well as the severity of the crimes committed. It seems to me that each and every decision of this type is really a throw of the dice and very difficult for any governor to face.
I have a question, technically according to our system of justice, the person shot by the police was the ‘alleged’ shooter. If he was caught alive we would be spending countless hours and dollars convicting (hopefully) him in a court of law, but until that conviction he would be considered innocent. Therefore they ‘technically’ shot and killed a person who had not been proven guilty in the eyes of the law. Ok, so we somehow ‘know’ he is guilty now that he is dead, but while alive there was this ‘question of guilt’. It would seem that if we weren’t sure of his guilt by law, then we would have to have an investigation to still determine if he was guilty, otherwise the guilty person could still out there. You see: Alive, not sure of guilt, dead, guilty as hell, so why do we waste time on trials for those we know are guilty in the first place?
I see your point, however I accept that this is the price we pay to guard against the use of criminal charges to persecute people for political or social beliefs. Everybody that’s alive gets a trial. And then, of course, media outlets will use the word “alleged” to gaurd against lawsuit should the person be found innocent.
Nobody responded to “Grover Leoning” above. Probably the wise choice. But I’ll assume his? post is sincere, and answer it. Grover, most black people don’t feel that way. You are IMO getting too much of your concept of black people from rap music or VIBE magazine or something. And dwelling too much on the OJ trial.
I agree with all three of you. Now that’s rare. Wolverine, I actually could never vote for Huckabee. but I like the guy and I sincerely hope he won’t be Willie Hortoned. I suppose that is too much to expect. I HATE things like that regardless of who is dishing them out. Seizing on a political opportunity and spinning it is totally ugly. It is the main reason I hate politics.
There is something terribly wrong with being able to sit here in 2009 and make the pronouncement that Huckabee’s political career is over because of this cop killer. Reducing a sentence from 99 years to 49 years is hardly giving some kid the keys to the jail.
Rick, I wasn’t entirely comfortable approving that first time entry. re Grover
Grover, are you for real? Or just a troll.
OJ was 13 years ago you know …