The Christmas displays at the Loudoun County Courthouse in Leesburg has become quite the center of controversy and political statement. That’s too bad. What ever happened to peace on earth, good will towards men? With all due respect for the 1st Amendment Establishment clause, some people are getting out of hand.
First off, to the Rotary Club’s credit, they have pulled out of the mix, withdrawn their application for a display which would have been a Christmas tree.
According to : Leesburg Today
One request that is no longer on the table is the Rotary Club of Leesburg’s Christmas tree that has graced the courthouse lawn for almost 50 years. Club President Ron Rogos confirmed Monday that the club has pulled its application to place a Christmas tree on the courthouse lawn.
Rogos said the Rotary Club Board of Directors made the decision Thursday, Dec. 3, electing to place the tree somewhere else, at a location still to be determined.
“We are a service organization with a long tradition of doing good things. We don’t get involved in policy-making or political decisions; all we are is a service club,” Rogos said. “The best way for us to keep doing what we’re doing is put our tree up and put it up somewhere else.”
Seven requests have been received by Loudoun County since their vote to overturn the ban on all courthouse displays earlier this month that had been implemented by the Courts Grounds and Facilities Committee. Amongst the usual Christmas Tree, interfaith and creche requests are 2 requests that many citizens are very unhappy with. One such request is from Richard Wingrove representing Freedom From Religion Foundation, a Wisconsin based group for separation of church and state. The request is to display:
…a six-foot mesh banner reading, “At This Season of the Winter Solstice, May Reason Prevail. There are no gods, no devils, no angels, no heaven or hell. There is only our natural World. Religion is but myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds.”
The above display pales by comparison to the next request from Sugarland Run resident Edward R. Myers. Myers has put together a display that includes a parody of the 12 Days of Christmas:
12 Day of Christmas” song to include “12 master debaters, 11 cunning linguists, 10 percent jobless, 9 niggardly noobs, 8-speech as gay tweets, 7 teabagger tools, 6-ting safety screws, 5 birther-control rings, 4 sucky health care, 3-dom disappearing, 2 many bills and a red FCUK to you too.” The FCUK is the trademark of French Connection United Kingdom.
The point, Myers said Tuesday is to force the Board of Supervisors to stop and think, noting that his signs, which he requested be hung on the fence around the courthouse in time for Saturday’s Leesburg holiday parade, are “like an onion with a number of layers.” In his application, Myers said he wanted his sign hung in celebration of the anniversary of the signing of the Bill of Rights, Dec. 15, which includes the protection of speech.
“I think mixing religion and government together to make a commercial Christmas is idolatry. I wanted to make something that would offend the Board of Supervisors for being so dismissive of the [committee] that thought through this issue so carefully,” he said, “while at the same time having a public display that would not offend children.”
Because, Myers said, it is only what people put into the words themselves that would make anyone construe his signs as obscene.
“It’s a play on words, with an innocent veneer, that people with dirty minds might read into it,” he said, noting, “free speech is kind of a hobby of mine.”
I respect the establishment clause folks until they get outrageous. These requests seem over the top. Too bad it has to be all or none. I see nothing wrong with Christmas trees, wreaths, mennorahs, frosties, sleighs, mistletoe, and holly on public property during this time of year. These are symbols of many holidays. Manger scenes are probably best displayed at churches. That seems more appropriate.
The 2 displays that are causing such contention in Loudoun County certainly explain why the Court Grounds Committee chose to ban all displays. Too bad people can’t exercise good taste. They ruin it for everyone. It might be their legal right to display offensive material but doing so defies wisdom and good taste. Those 2 qualities, unfortunately, cannot be legislated or codified.
Is this the time of year to make a point? Was the Rotary Club taking the high ground to pull out of the fray? Should all displays be banned or should the county be able to use its wisdom to decide what is appropriate and what is not? Will the voters make these supervisors pay at the ballot box next supervisor election cycle?
Leave Christmas alone. It’s a harmless holiday.
I can’t tell you how glad I am to have grown up in a traditional society where people used common sense instead of the 1st amendment, as if our forefathers had intended this. Our interpretation of the 1st amendment is a bastardization of the original. I can also tell you how troubled I am that my grandchildren will most likely have to deal with more 1st amendment distortion-ist idiots in the future instead of enjoying what was once an enjoyable time of year for all. Merry Christmas everyone! I just exercised my 1st amendment rights, so there!
It’s a tree, not a wooden cross. And I exercise my right to say “Merry Christmas” on a daily basis, not “Happy Holidays”–so warm and fuzzy, that bit of PC.
I hope all of those concerned with state-sponsored pine trees plan to show up for work on Christmas Day rather than enjoy an “idolatrous” holiday home with their families.
No “Happy Holidays” PC BS for me. I too say Merry Christmas. With that being said I do also, wish my Jewish friends a Happy Hanukkah. However, I’m not going to make a blanket feel good statement such as “Happy Holidays” to everyone.
Emma, I can’t wait to see what the traffic report will be will of those people flocking to work on Christmas Day. 🙂
Today is Festivus… so I would like to wish everyone a “Happy Festivus!” It’s the holiday for “the rest of us!” As I’m sure you all know, Festivus is based around Bill Leahy Jr. and there is no faith required. Enjoy!
If you would like to order your own Festivus pole, I suggest this web site:
http://www.festivuspoles.com/pages/Festivuspoles.htm
I prefer the six foot model.
Ah, so much agreement here. I thought I had logged onto the wrong blog.
I find what people say unimportant. I don’t care if store clerks wish me Merry Christmas or not. I don’t care if they say happy holidays, seasons greetings or nothing at all as long as they are polite and not smacking gum in my face.
On the other hand, I think these 2 people are being offensive. I hate seeing any holiday being made political and Christmas isn’t the time for these kinds of statements. I don’t practice Kwanza but I leave people alone who do and I don’t try to denigrate it.
Christmas has become open season for Christian bashers. Every year it gets worse.
Why do you think that happens, Mando? What are some examples that emerge each year to bash Christians specifically?
Should a creche be placed on government property or is it reasonable to ask for those kinds of overtly religious symbols of Christianity to be on church or private property?
Will there be feats of strength?@Opinion
Hanukkah begins at sundown tonight, so I offer an unapologetic “Happy Hanukkah!” to all who are celebrating.
Christmas displays belong away from courthouses or Federal or State government buildings. Especially courthouses.
Private property, A-OK.
This seems simple and straightforward to me. The Rotary Club did the right thing.
Rick, do you think a tree or wreath is wrong at a courthouse? How about the National Christmas Tree?
I don’t see trees and wreaths as religious symbols, which I do agree belong on private property.
Is it customary for groups to put up seasonal displays around Manassas or is this something the City/county/courthouse does on its own?
I know Caton Merchant is giving Bonfadini a run for his money. Their decorations are massive.
Good questions, Moon-howler.
At this stage in my life I wouldn’t be the one running around objecting to these things if they give people pleasure.
But yes I do think trees and wreaths shouldn’t be on courthouses. Or even the White House. In an ideal world. Of course we live in this world, where you have to pretend to be a Christian to get elected in the first place.
I don’t feel hardcore about it. But if someone complains, I have to agree with them.
Sounds fair to me. I think we tend to forget that not everyone is Christian. We also tend to forget that there are many flavors of Christianity. We don’t all agree. The public stage should not be supporting one flavor and not the other.
Perhaps the Courthouse grounds committee needs to rethink its policies. I don’t think the Holiday season that begins tonight and ends in January should be duked out.
@Emma
Absolutely! As you can see, the airing of grievances has already started (on this blog)! That’s the Festivus spirit!
I am glad you put that up, Opinion. There was too much agreement going on! 😉
There used to be a nativity scene on the lawn of the old courthouse, but it was moved to Nelson Park. I can’t remember if it was in response to controversy or if if was moved proactively.
The inflatables at Caton Merchant. Sigh. I really should talk to whoever installed them. There must be a benign and benevolent reason for them, and I don’t mean to bash that. But from my warped perspective it kind of creeps me out. And I am a fan of the white bicycles and other landscape artistic expressions. I put pink flamingos on people’s lawns with a church youth group. My husband is playing one of the Santas on the VRE Santa train tomorrow, and my daughter’s going to be a pink elf. I’ve been to Mr. Bonfadini’s house. I have plenty of loopy holiday spirit!
There’s just something creepy about inflatables. It’s like having the oversized balloons of the Macy’s parade park itself down on one bizarre hatching spot, a quiet retirement home on Sudley Road. Or when you’re sitting at the long light on Portner, you feel like Disney on speed. What am I doing? I’m counting inflatables! Oops, the light is green!
When they first went up a few years ago, I walked among them. It’s private property so you have to report in to the main office and let them know you’re there, which I did. It was very surreal, walking in such a small area, with row after row of humming plastic blow up dolls, wavering slightly, grinning widely, raising up hands or drums or candy canes.
I went back home, started writing a short story about them and got on the Internet. I had to see if there is an inflatable nativity scene. There is! $98, 7 feet long, from WalMart.com. It was depressing. I don’t know how inflatables are any different from plastic nativity scenes. Maybe it’s because they are more cartoonish. And if that one inflatable is almost 100 bucks, think of how much is sitting out there, humming away, many times over, in front of Caton Merchant.
Okay, that’s my Scrooge moment. Sorry if I offended the good intentions of Caton Merchant.
I hate when people get like this. Can’t we all voice the way we celebrate the season? Come on. For one day a frickin’ year, just get along or shut up!
(How’s that for a statement of Christmas peace?)
@CindyB
I find those windsocks creepy. There’s a huge, tall one of Santa near you, Cindy. It stretches up in the wind, so Santa looks like he’s been dieting all year. The first time I saw that thing, it scared the you-know-what out of me.
No one is really quarreling. I am laughing because everyone seemed to be in agreement.
I see no difference in the court house and Nelson Park. Both are government property. It doesn’t bother me one way or the other, other than I feel overtly religious scenes should be on private or church property, in principle. I wouldn’t complain about a manger scene in Nelson Park or any place else.
I don’t think Christmas trees, wreaths, holly, snowmen, bells, snowflakes and Santas are religious.
As for inflatibles, not my taste but I give the seniors credit for putting on a festive display. There are inflatibles all over my street. I can’t drive blind. I guess I have to adjust. Merry Ho HO HO
I despise the inflatables on people’s lawns–especially the deflated nylon carnage all day when the motors are turned off.
And no Bonfadini display this year? What is Manassas coming to?
Well I can’t call myself a Christian anymore, but My pagan Scottish ways are hard to shed. I started a tradition at work where I bring in my little plastic Yule tree, wrap it in LED lights and decorate it with out of date CD-ROMS and Cat5 patch caples. I have a tree rug made of black electrical tape and a yellow quarter inch floppy with a star as the topper.
It’s the IT holiday tree and has yet to get a complaint.
I really don’t care if people put up the Nativity scene in front of the town halls or court houses.
If they dragged every non-Christian in town to the scene and gave them a choice of converting or being beheaded before the idol, then I would have a problem.
It’s going to take something more substancial than plastic statues to change my faith.
You know how people say ‘no abortion on my tax dollar?’ Or’ No War on my tax dollar?’
Hopefully everyone knows that they don’t have a line item veto on such things. However, there are people out there who don’t want to have government endorsed religion.
I can actually sympathize with those people, especially if the religion displayed is always someone else’s other than the person griping. I don’t think it is about changing religion. I think it is about government endorsement.
Then we get into all the equal time issues which is what Loudoun Co. seems to be dealing with.
I don’t know about Bonfadini. He usually puts up the display the first real weekend of December. It is at least a 2 day job. Last Sat was snowy so that might be why it isn’t up. Maybe he will get it done this weekend. or…maybe he will just bag it. His grandkids really like it now.
Since Churches are so interested in influencing public policy, I say,”no tax break on my tax dollar!”. Pull their 501C status!
Then we will have to pull the 501(c)3 status on a lot of groups, Opinion.
Here’s a solution: let the residents put up their symbols in a park or other public place that taxpayers OWN. Then government stays out of it. So long as the symbol isn’t endorsing hatred, it shouldn’t matter (x-nay on the upside down crosses). Just celebrate, dammit!
Churches are a very big business, and have all the tax exemptions under the sun. I think they should be paying their share of taxes. Just think of the revenue that could be generated if they just paid real estate taxes.
I’ll celebrate anything that’s fun! Food, lights, music, dance, get-togethers. Anything that makes the majority feel good. Just do it!
Truthfully though – I must say that I’d really like to destroy the Drummer Boy!
– The legal reality is that if you put up a symbol of any religion on public property,
you have to allow all the rest – even some the majority of citizens might
strongly object to having. Local pols don’t object to Christmas, they just
don’t want a traveling pack of hungry lawyers to chew their fiscal legs
while demanding Leroy’s Coven of Nude Nymphs has the right to set up
a display in front of city hall (They will go away for 100K plus their inflated
“legal expenses”).
– Onion, think Festivus is celebrated everyday on blogs, “The grand airing of
grieviances”. And give Seinfeld credit, not every sitcom starts a holiday!
This all brings a new dimension to all or nothing. Everyone or no one.
Opinion, I agree with you.
@Poor Richard
Hey, there’s nothing wrong with nude nymphs.
and then watch as faith-based charities go down the drain. While we’re at it, why do we have taxpayer funding of local dance troupes? My kid doesn’t dance for those privileged schools, so why should I foot the bill? For that matter, why should anyone who isn’t into the arts have to pay the bill for them? @opinion
If you take away tax-exempt status for one group, you should take it away for a whole lot of other special-interest groups who don’t contribute anywhere near as much o the community as many of our local churches do.
Faith based charities should exist because that is what churches do, not for any govt. benny or so they can influence policy.
What local dance troupes do we pay for? I realize that our supervisors chip in for various causes with discretionary money but beyond that….
I have no problem with public money supporting the arts, zoos, memorials, parks etc., within reason as long as everyone has access.
I am not making the connect.
Churches get tax free status regardless of whether they help the community or not. It will never happen, but I think many are way too influencial in the election and legislative process. A few have been hit with taxes because they have overstepped their bounds.
@Emma
(IMHO) Any group who claims 501c status agrees to stay out of policy and politics. The converse of this simple statement is that any group who claims 501c status and attempts to lobby for a given policy should lose their status. The type of group is just an incidental consideration (church, charity, whatever).
The answer (IMHO) is that Churches should “stay in their swim lane” if they want to keep their protected status. I recognize the good that faith based organizations do for society; however, I also recognize that many faith based organizations wish to impose their particular values or beliefs on society in general. They need to decide just what business they are in and then stick to it. If its legislation, they are just like any other lobbyist, should register as such, and should lose their tax exemption.
Churches don’t give just because of the “bennies.” In many cases those bennies help make the giving more possible, especially in these tough times.
@Opinion No argument there.
I agree 100% with Opinion.
I never said churches did give for the bennies. I said they shouldn’t (if any do.) I would hope none would.
@Emma
(IMHO), if you want to be a 501c and do your thing with a break from the taxpayer (that would be us), you better play by the rules… or lose your status.
@Posting As Pinko
Well said!
Well said, PHP. I think there’s always room for a few more nude nymphs!
Hey, I have an idea, if we all do nothing, say nothing, and celebrate nothing we’ll live ‘happily’ ever after! That’s the only way to please everyone in this God forsaken society it seems. Actually it isn’t the majority of people that you have to please anymore, no, it’s that tiny minority who object that rules the day. Very unfortunate.
@Second-Alamo
Second-Alamo… I understand your point; however,nothing is stopping you from celebrating whatever you want on private property. I just don’t understand why everyone has to make a statement on public property (property people who might not agree with you help pay for).
Keep it at home or at church and no one really cares.
So SA, what would you do if you lived over in Leesburg and those 2 non-seasonal displays were within your eye-sight? I think you and I would both agree that they are inappropriate. Is it their first amendment right to display that crap?
Last March two young women Maryam Rostampour, 27, and Marzieh Amirzadeh, 30 were arrested in Iran because they had converted from Islam to Christianity. They were held in Evin prison which is well known for its harsh conditions. A judge agreed to release them if they denied their faith. They refused. They were released just last month on bail. In 2005 two Indonesian Christian girls were beheaded because of their faith. I could go on and on.
In the U.S. so-called Christians whine and moan of the government won’t permit the display of religious symbols at a courthouse or library. It’s embarrassing.
Acorn has gotten over $50 million in Federal funding over the last 15 years or so. Perhaps they need to stick to “community organizing”–whatever that is–and stop trying to elect their pet candidates.
Thanks for that reminder, El Guapo.
Truthfully Emma, had you ever heard of Acorn until very recently, like the past 2 years? I had not.
Who are they trying to elect now? Aren’t they contracted to work elections? I have never figured them out. Enlighten me por favor.
ACORN’s PAC endorsed Barack Obama during the Democratic presidential primary. The Obama campaign paid an ACORN affiliate over $800,000 to help get out the vote during the primary.