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The following  appears on the December 15 Agenda for the BOCS Meeting:  item A is detailed.  Item B is currently unavailable.

You may access the agenda at the following CLICK.  Choose current agenda.

 

 Sesquicentennial Celebration

A. RES – Transfer, Budget and Appropriate $77,353 from Non-Departmental Transient Occupancy Tax Funds to the Department of Public Works to Fund Expenses for 2010 Events and Programs to Support the 150th Sesquicentennial at County Historic Sites and to Match the Journey Through Hallowed Ground Partnership’s STEM Educational Grant Request– Thomas Bruun – Public Works Department   

 

 B. RES – Consider Proposed Memorandum of Understanding Between Prince William County and Virginia Civil War Events, Inc. – Angela Lemmon Horan – County Attorney  

 

 Note: 

Item A deals with the Prince William County Committee.  It provides for  TOT funds to be transferred to Public Works and itemizes what each amount is allocated for. 

Item B is the Creston Owen group, Virginia Civil War Events.  No mention was made of a presentation.  The information appeared to be incomplete.

Interested parties should make every attempt to watch this section of the BOCS meeting.

 

68 Thoughts to “BOCS Meeting 12/15/09”

  1. Poor Richard

    Also, slated for tonight in Manassas City Hall at 7 is a Town Hall meeting
    featuring, I’m told, Bob Marshall, Jackson Miller, Chuck Colgan and other
    state representatives.
    The public is invited.

  2. Lafayette

    PR, when was this Town Hall planned? How disappointing that both are scheduled for tonight.

  3. Thanks, Poor Richard. I called the clerk’s office at the City this morning to get details. Our new Neighborhood Leaders Group in the city was supposed to meet at the Georgetown South Community Center tonight at 7 pm — we’re headed to City Hall instead. Thank goodness for this blog.

  4. Poor Richard

    Lafayette, in answer to your question – I don’t know. That would be a good
    question for someone to ask tonight.

    CindyB, glad you and the other leaders got the information.

    (Mayor Parrish mentioned it in his opening comments last night at the
    city council meeting).

  5. Too bad the town hall meeting didn’t stop to think about the BOCS meeting tonight. It has been on the schedule all year. Maybe it has nothing to do with Prince William County.

  6. Mom

    “Maybe it has nothing to do with Prince William County” maybe, but maybe it has everything to do with Prince William County elected officials, tough to be in Manassas when you’re required to be at the McCoart Center.

  7. That thought has crossed several of our minds, Mom. In fact, it was one giant mind blast over in the western outskirts around 10 am this morning. I think we are all on to something.

  8. Mom

    Well, Corey does bring quite a baggage train with him as well as a propensity to make unfortunate statements. Last weeks diatribe (only the most recent) where he again laid the blame for transportation issues solely at the feet of those in Richmond would have been enough for me to manipulate the calendar to ensure that he had a scheduling conflict. Just once I wish someone from Richmond would have the stones to reply “And you approved those developments on/in (Linton Hall, Route 15, Gainesville, Dominion Valley, etc.) when and were the roads in place or funded when you did?”

  9. Lafayette

    Moon-howler :That thought has crossed several of our minds, Mom. In fact, it was one giant mind blast over in the western outskirts around 10 am this morning. I think we are all on to something.

    Yes, it was. I hope someone will ask WHEN the Town Hall was planned. I will be watching and/or participating in the “Third Battle of Manassas”. 😉

    Moon & Mom,
    Maybe, just maybe the state representatives have a western and an eastern end Town Hall planned for the county residents. Anyone know?

  10. Lafayette

    oops when the Town Hall(please,fix, moon)

  11. Chris

    Mom, I didn’t see your “bus tour”(from November thread) listed on the 9 day event schedule. Will you be funding it yourself? 🙂

  12. Or maybe it could be that the suggestion to rename the Battle of First Manassas …to The Battle of First Prince William. ho ho ho. I am certain I must have misheard him. I think Mr. Owen heard it the same way I did, judging from his response.

    As a native Virginian, I was trying to keep my lips from forming the word ‘carpet bagger.’ I think I caught it in time. I know…that is bad of me.

  13. Poor Richard

    Of course an old ploy is to have a “meeting” and just tell the people that you
    want to be there.

    Just saying.

  14. Item A passed. It was mostly about signage. Item B will come back to life in January. No action taken.

    I felt the supervisors were as confused as I am. They seemed to have a problem understanding the names, which group was which etc. I was glad to see this. i was beginning to think I had dementia.

  15. Mom

    Smoke and mirrors, Marty wasn’t confused at all and his comments concern me.

  16. Then why did he ask those questions?

  17. Mom

    Typical Marty, restate the obvious, restate what he said last week, garner some “face time”, just my cynical take.

  18. I wish they would publish a flow chart so we could all figure out who is who. There are too many players involved in all this. Too many different people wanting a piece of the pie. Too much money at stake to just rubber stamp this through.

  19. Mom

    Flow chart is easy:

    1. County Sesquicentennial Group (CVB, Park Service, Historic Commission, Towns, etc.)
    (already funded in the FY09-10 budget, funds appropriated but not allocated)

    2. Creston Owens Group/Everybody else
    Not funded by anybody but the City of Manassas, seeking funds from everyone to provide in its essence a dubplicate administrative role just without those annoying strings that come attached to provisions to ensure open government.

    3. PWC BOCS
    Principal funding authority and overseer for Party 1
    Targeted patsy for Party 2

  20. Lafayette

    Mom, excellent work! Thanks, I think many could benefit from your flow chart.

    BTW- I don’t think your comment earlier was just your cynical take. Your comments are very similar(one time exact same words) to the ones exchanged between me and the Mr. last night.

  21. PWC taxpayer

    I agree, the flow chart is easy to follow:

    1. County Sesquicentennial Group (CVB, Park Service, Historic Commission, Towns, etc.) are trying to protect their public jobs, teas, roundtables and torchlight tours — see public jobs without any real concern for history or the County – see public jobs – and are busy making sure they are taken care of first at the public trough. It is insulting that the staff report was prepared by anything but disinterested staff. Talk about public corruption!

    2. Creston Owens Group is asking for less than the above in one time public funds to seed a long-term commitment to do annual and recurring large scale, spectator events that will appeal to a much, much larger audience and bring in more tourists to support business and raise significant non-tax funds to fund our historical assests. I mean what an asshole, He’s offerred do the work that noone was or is now suggesting that they can do for free, help the County and local business and reduce/diversify some of our tax burden through a non-profit. We need more such assholes!

    3. PWC BOCS — responsible to other than local jealous bureaucratic control dowagers and who have an obligation to try to diversify our revenue stream to meet already unmet funding needs.

    4. Based on the reaction to Owen’s efforts, the public agency’s lack of overt support for it (with the exception of the Manassas Museum) and the reluctance of the BOCS to move forward on this, I have no choice but to oppose any future purchases or expansions of such assets by the County unless the purchase price and long term sources of private capital and operating costs are secured first.

  22. Duke of Cumberland

    Can someone say Sour Grapes? I dont think name calling (A–holes comment above) is required in an open discussion. I think you have shown your true colors by reverting to name calling etc.. Very sad

  23. Opinion

    @Mom
    Mon, an EXCELLENT summary! I love the “…without those annoying strings…” observation.

    I’m guessing this was a “done deal” until citizens started making observations like that and others perhaps giving our BOCS pause. City, State and Federal $$$ depend on what the County does. Let’s hope they don’t become the patsy’s you mention (because that would make us the ultimate losers… it’s OUR money!)

  24. Opinion

    @PWC taxpayer
    Re, “…Based on the reaction to Owen’s efforts, the public agency’s lack of overt support for it (with the exception of the Manassas Museum) and the reluctance of the BOCS to move forward on this…” There’s a message there.

    I’m sure you’re a wonderful human being with some insight that perhaps we are missing (and I mean this with the greatest respect); however, I like the message that the “rest of the world” is conveying. What no one has mentioned to date is that the County Sesquicentennial Group is FULL of volunteers with good ideas, energy, and enthusiasm… and they don’t mind (I love this line) “…those annoying strings…” that come with Government oversight of (I love saying this) OUR money.

  25. I am still trying to figure out the local jealous bureaucratic control dowagers mentioned by taxpayer.

    Tax, the more you say, the more you are tipping your hand. The people here you are considering to be ‘those against Creston’ aren’t against Creston. There are some of us who just really want to understand what is going on. We are not part of the rubber stamp club.

    Many of the groups listed by MOM are volunteer groups. Perhaps the kind ‘lady’ will star those who are comprised of volunteers.

  26. Opinion

    @Moon-howler
    As usual, well said, M-h.

  27. Lafayette

    I’ve not seen a single person say one bad word about Mr. Owen. We simply are not willing to just play Santa Claus at this current time. There really is limited information available and all parties need time to digest it all to make a wise and well informed decision. That’s all were saying.

    I think we ALL agree tourism dollars are good for PWC. However, the county simply is not properly prepared/equipped/staffed for this “influx of tourists” some hope to have have for years to come. We must remember this event is a once in a lifetime event. We must commemorate July 21-22,1861. However, we must fiscally responsible while doing so.

    Take a look at the list of events. I got this link from Mr. Owen’s group’s website.
    http://www.manassascivilwar.org/planned-events/
    16 events planned for the City of Manassas and 20 for PWC. Three of those 20 are for reenactments wich will disturb the “hollowed grounds”. If you look closely at the events you will see the tax dolllars will be rolling into the City of Manassas because they will be hosting a carnival and vendors. No vendors listed for the county sites. There’s also, a ball in the city and one in the county. Please, take a look at what your tax dollars are going towards.

  28. Opinion

    @Lafayette
    So good… I wish I said it, Lafayette!

  29. Lafayette

    Thank you, Opinion.

    Here’s some more thoughts on the scheduled events. I hope people actuallly open their eyes read it and think about why is the county being asked for so much while the money making events in terms of tax dollars go to the city. The city will NOT be sharing it’s tax money with PWC just because they contributed $250K. grrr.

    I’ve been think some more about Mr. Owen’s presentation last week. I recall him saying they were history preservation and education. I understand tours can be educational at such historic sites, but where are the educational events?

  30. clueless

    @Lafayette
    The report on yesterday’s agenda states that there will be eduational days at the Battlefield in April of 2010 and 2011 and also a grant to the Battlefield and Stonewall Middle School. That is all that I cpuld find on education. I can’t cut and past it because I only have the adobe reader but the link is at the top of this thread.

  31. I have had the worst time trying to cut and paste from Adobe, Clueless. I did take a snapshot and then paste it onto work and then picked it up off of word and deposited here. What a butt pain!!!!

    I suppose anything could be considered educational if people are learning.

    That grant for the middle school infusion into history is state and has nothing to do with Mr. Owen’s group does it?

  32. Lafayette

    clueless,
    I know about the Stonewall Middle project. I posted the link here yesterday. I’m fully in favor of that project it was a success in Harper’s Ferry. I’m just saying what other activities that Mr. Owen’s group might be facilitating/organizing based on what was on the 9 day event schedule. I hope there’s more for our county students than the Stonewall Middle project. Will the schools be studying this historic date any in 2011? Would there be an adult educational events? I’m just trying to find out what exactly we are supposed to be getting for that $250K investment.

  33. Lafayette

    I posted it on the other two threads. All of these thread are getting as confusing as all the group names involved. 🙂

    Lafayette November 13th, 2009 at 09:09 | #6 Reply | Quote Here’s a link to the presentation to the PWBOS called “Of the Students, By the Students, For the Students”. They show what the students did for Harper’s Ferry and their celebration of the 150th Anniversary.
    http://pwcgov.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?view_id=2&clip_id=275
    I really hope they get the grant money and partner with the county for this project. If this project moves forward they would also do the same for the Second Battle of Manassas. They are some requirements for the grant money based free/reduced lunches and Stonewall Middle would be the school to work on this project. The National Park Service will certainly be promoting the Anniversary, and they had a very postive responses to the Hollowed Ground project.

  34. Lafayette

    @Moon-howler
    Stonewall project has NOTHING to do with VCWE, Inc. (Mr. Owen’s group).

  35. clueless

    @Lafayette
    The picture function is way over my head. I can cut and past links though. I do not think the educational days at the Battlefield are from his group either. They are stated on the County report. I am not sure how many sixth graders there are in the County but it has to be in the thousands.

    The report also listed a number of lectures in the County on Civil War topics for 2010. These could be considered adult education. I can’t find a listing though. These are also not Mr. Owen’s group. They are iether the County’s or the local committee’s.

  36. Lafayette

    @clueless
    Thanks, clueless. More proof let’s stick with the County and the local committee’s plan for now. I do consider the lectures educational, but again..not Owen’s group.

  37. Poor Richard

    The proposed Sesquicentennial might become more realistic than folks
    had planned.

    Several speakers at the Manassas meeting asked our delegates to return
    to Richmond and demand the right of Virginia to nullify Federal law under
    the 10th admendment. The names of Senator John C. Calhoun of South
    Carolina and President Andrew Jackson were mentioned more than once.

    Keep your rifle at the ready and stay tuned. This might become
    interesting.

  38. clueless

    OK. I went and checked the individual middle school web sites and the County had about 5,300 6th graders at the end of the last school year. I had to average the reported school populations by the three grades so it is probably off but not by much. If you include Manassas and Manassas Park I would think the number of students going to the Battlefield, and presumably studying the battle is about 6,000.

    I am assuming 6th graders are mentioned due to SOL’s but am not sure. That is a lot of children and it looks like it is already underway. What an opportunity for our school children.

  39. Mom

    Opinion, thank you, you’ve done a yeoman’s job getting down in the weeds with regard to numbers, impact and unintended consequences. I couldn’t have written it better myself and quite frankly haven’t had the time to engage in the level of discourse I would like to.

    I agree, this probably was a “done deal” until citizens started to question the expenditure. That those questions have been raised on platforms as disparate as this one and the one of which we shall not speak is telling in that the concerns are more widespread than one ordinarily finds in PWC. Glad to see almost everyone (except for some Chamber member(s) who post here) generally agrees with regard to concerns about cost, impact and necessity. Last clues to it having been (note the past-tense) a done deal, Marty’s tepid defense, his acquiesence to delaying further consideration and Corey biting his lip.

  40. Lafayette

    @clueless
    Once upon a time we were actually taught Prince William County History. I really think this should still be taught. Our students due indeed have an opportunity here when 2011 gets here. I still think it’s a shame that the granted to Stonewall Middle was based on free lunches. I would’ve like to have seen all middle schools competed for the project.

  41. Poor Richard

    “We believe the Constitution and the Bill of Rights clearly state
    the limited powers of our federal government and we seek
    to use all lawful means to restrain govermental actions
    to conform within its limited powers”.
    10th Admendment Association

  42. Lafayette

    oops. that the PROJECT was granted to Stonewall…..

  43. Lafayette

    PR or Cindy,
    Did anyone inquire at last night’s Town Hall as to when the Town Hall was scheduled? Or hear the answer?

  44. Opinion

    @Mom
    Mom, you’re welcome.

  45. Opinion

    I have come to appreciate just how important anti-BVBL is to Northern Virginia. While its original purpose is perhaps “lost in the fog of time”, it now gives voice to Prince William County citizens to discuss in real time those issues that matter to us. You have re-defined news into information sharing and dialog. We no longer read about what happened, we discuss what is happening. We no longer live with the decisions of others, we influence and shape those decisions. We give new meaning to the term “transparent Government” by taking away the cover from those we elect or from those who would exploit the Governance process for personal gain. You bring light to the deals made in the shadows, the back rooms, the dark restaurants or out of public view. You provide a service that we really need, make our County a better place to live, and force our Government to be more accountable. There is no longer any place for our elected officials to hide. You do all this while keeping a civil tone amongst your participants. At the end of the day, we may perhaps learn from one another and occasionally agree to disagree.

    Thank you, anti-BVBL, its administrators, and to our most gracious host and facilitator, Moon-howler. Of you added a tip box, I’d drop a dime in now and then.

    That’s just my opinion.

  46. And then there are days that people make you feel like it is all worthwhile. Thank you, Opinion, for your kind words. Thanks to Cargosquid on another thread, for his kind words also.

    Hopefully Anti is the place to come for civil discussion of what’s going on in our world. If I forget to keep a running open thread, give me a nudge.

    Perhaps Sesqui-gate was headed to the giant county rubber stamp. Not now. And when I say that, I don’t mean it should not get county approval. I mean nothing that uses OUR county money should just get the proverbial rubber stamp. We need to observe, discuss and evaluate.

    Even though many of us here are county, we sometimes overlook mentioning the City. Concerns over this issue actually bubbled up in the city and I got a couple of emails. That is how some of these issues surface–behind the scenes. I can’t cover most things with answers but I can sure post your questions and let it go from there.

  47. I forgot to say, I hope that our elected officials are reading Anti-bvbl so that they know how residents feel about many local issues. Its a cheap, easy way to dipstick the minds of the constituents.

  48. Just out of curiosity, would it be impertinent of me to ask where the City of Manassas is taking its funds from? Is there a tourism account? General funds?

    I know several agencies have been asked to cut back their budget for next year.

  49. El Quapo

    This whole Sesquicentennial Celebration discussion was really hard to follow until Mom shared her flowchart Like Opinion, I liked the observation:

    …without those annoying strings that come attached to provisions to ensure open government.

    That resonated so much that I had to go to the Virginia Civil War Events website to see what was going on. There’s one thing folks need to think about. The last line of VCWE’s ABOUT US tab http://www.virginiacivilwarevents.org/about is, “100% of our net proceeds will go to historical preservation, education, and civil war commemoration.” I assume we all are familiar with the term “net proceeds” and what it means. For a non-profit, this usually means proceeds after expenses and fees deducted for managing the organization. In a volunteer organization, the gross to net should ideally be close to 100%; however, one could comply with the above statement while spending 99% of its contributions on expenses and fees (on a professional fundraiser, for example.) One could also work the non-profit for the free; however, if the volunteer also owned a company that volunteer could quite legally spend expenses and fees on that company. (I guess there’s an argument this is good for the economy; however, I’m not sure if that’s an issue in play here).

    Hypothetically (I really don’t know the principals in this case), if one were on the BOD of a non-profit working for free and owned a marketing company (for example – one of the more obvious conflicts), one could spend contributions collected by a non-profit on that company to market whatever cause the non-profit was established to support. There’s nothing necessarily “wrong” with this; however, there is an obvious potential for a conflict of interest should this scenario occur. If a non-profit collects its fees from the public, such an arrangement might go unnoticed. If a non-profit asks for Government money (and from what I have read, Virginia Civil War Events appears to be driven by Government money), a bit of due diligence is in order to “follow the money” in the interest of the taxpayers. A review of this group’s business plan to evaluate their estimate of expenses as a percentage of gross fees, estimated net that will actually be spent on the Sesquicentennial, and how they plan to spend Government money is a fair due diligence question.

    I share this because it appears Virginia Civil War Events has based its future on asking that money be taken from public groups responsible to our elected officials and subject to oversight to a private group with no such oversight. I believe someone suggested that work such as this should really be awarded as a contract by County Government. That’s a good idea. Other Governmental agencies could funnel contributions to the selected group through the County contract ensuring oversight of their (“our”) investment. It would appear from their website this group was just established this year. They have no obvious past performance or experience in the work that they are requesting (that I could find, at least – I’ll admit I limited my interest to their website).

    Considering the fiscal pressure on Government at all levels for performance these days, the County and State should spend its precious treasure on the best qualified to do this work (if it is in fact necessary – another issue I see discussed here quite a bit. I’m agnostic on that issue) . This work should be awarded based on competition so contract oversight and regular review would ensure that we get the most “bang for the buck”. A non-competitive award only ensures that the money will be spent, not that we will get the best deal. A non-competitive award would also take away any incentive to discount expenses and fees due to competitive pressure. There would be no pressure for (what those of us from the Federal Government call) a “Best and Final” offer. I guess, as a taxpayer, I’m a fan of “…those annoying strings…” because history (and the Washington Post) tells us what tends to happen when they are cut.

    This is all quite hypothetical. I’m sure the folks at Virginia Civil War Events welcome discussions such as this because the answers only makes their case stronger. I assume they are a group of dedicated Prince William County citizens who really want the County to have a great Sesquicentennial like the rest of us. I wish them luck; however, (like lots of other folks on this blog) I question the diversion of taxpayer money from public groups under Government oversight to a private non-profit. I can only assume they considered simply volunteering their time and talent to one of the existing groups to accomplish their goals but decided not to for whatever reason.

    I hope my post wasn’t too long. Great website, by the way. I’m “hooked”.

  50. Poor Richard

    It is becoming apparent that plans for the Sesquicentennial celebration may
    have to be scaled back due not to lack of merit and value, but lack of dollars.

    Manassas has allocated money, but not spent it. If PWC and the
    Commonwealth select to provide a reduced financial contribution,
    I trust the city will reduce its amount in proportion.

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