UPDATE:
Multiple sources have reported that the Virginia Civil War Events, Inc has withdrawn its request to partner with Prince William County as an events planner for the Sesquicentennial in 2011. ‘Withdrawn’ can be a temporary situation. It can simply mean ‘for now.’
The BOCS had decided to revisit the plans for the proposed Memorandum of Understanding with this group in January.
No explanation was provided via our sources. It could very well be that the harsh reality of the extremely austere budget cuts Virginia is facing signalled that there simply is no money. Or…The organization’s chair could be revising his plans. Stay tuned.
Previous links:
I don’t think there are too many people who still believe in slavery. If so, I would ask them on what grounds? “All men are created equal” couldn’t have been ALL about not wanting to pay taxes, now could it?
I prefer to remember (or celebrate) our Confederate past, not to express belief in the cause of preserving any particular institution whether it be states’ rights or slavery, but to acknowledge our history rather than be ashamed of it. There is no sense in being ashamed of something that makes up who you are. That’s how I look at it. But in the case of these reenactments and such, I think people do it as a hobby and have no political bone to pick by participating.
I grew up attending Revolutionary War events where it was the Red Coats and Minutemen still firing away at one another (sans bullets, of course). If anything, those were more “celebrations” than what I have seen here in the Manassas area thus far. But who knows what the 50th will bring. There are always those who love war solely for the sake of war because they are violent people.
At Manassas Museum, when I read about Round’s Peace Jubilee, I was pretty amazed. I wish more people knew about that piece of history and one man’s efforts to reunite a still somewhat separate nation. Round belongs in all the history books, IMO. Or maybe he is? I know he never made it into mine, and I doubt he’s in my kids’ history books.
PR, next time you teach a history course, please let us know. I am enrolling!
The more I hear about Round’s Peace Jubilee, the more it impresses me. Perhaps that’s what we should really be commemorating… or celebrating. I think it’s ok to celebrate peace! Ironically, we are still a somewhat separate nation. Perhaps if done correctly, we could make some small difference in correcting that at least in Prince William county.
You know, some of us earned the privilege and pleasure of wearing a military uniform “the hard way”. I am frankly offended when I see men who have not earned the privilege put on uniforms of any era and pretend to be something they are not: soldiers. If they want to wear the uniform of our country, they should sign up and pay their dues.
For the veterans who enjoy re-enactments, Blue and Gray Balls, and similar events… go for it! You’ve earned the right… just don’t ask to do it on my dime!
I suppose we could make some sort of analogy about women who dress the part also. The other night I watched a long video on Thomas Jefferson. So many of the women in his life died in childbirth or had children not reach adulthood. Women dropped like flies before modern medicine because of childbirth related health problems. There was no reliable birth control. Birthing babies was a very savage business and women had child after child. The statistics are very frightening, especially when one considers how many of those babies never made it to adulthood because of accident or disease.
Witness, I am not sure what your slavery reference is about.
“The fifieth anniversary of the First Battle of Manassas was billed as a day
of national reconciliation and called the Manassas National Jubilee of Peace.
Heralded as an event for all people to enjoy, it was the idea of “Yankee”
George C. Round, who was regarded as a sterling citizen even though he had
been on the opposing side in the Civil War. Elaborate flags and bunting
draped homes and businesses for the occasion.”
Manassas Mosaic: Creating a Community by Rita Koman
“At noon, July 21st, on Bull Run Battlefied, the veterans will be marshalled
in review and the lines of the Blue and Gray will clasp hands in friendship
on the scene of conflict fifty years ago.”
From Southern RR ad for event
@Witness Too
A simple google search returned this Washington Post article from 2008. It seems that the local group is (or at least was) focusing on diversity and education.
Pr. William Prepares for Civil War Anniversary County at ‘Forefront’ For Events in 2011
By Nick Miroff Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, September 21, 2008
With the 150th anniversary of the Civil War approaching in 2011, Prince William County officials and historians have begun meeting to determine how the war should be commemorated.
The county played a key role in the war’s early stages, hosting the first major battle — the First Battle of Bull Run, or First Battle of Manassas — at what is now Manassas National Battlefield Park. Although that event and other large battles in Prince William are more well known, there are other, smaller events to commemorate in the county that will help deepen knowledge of the war and its social, political and economic significance, said Brendon Hanafin, director of the county’s historical preservation office.
“The county has a wonderful opportunity to enrich folks’ understanding of the war,” said Hanafin, who is leading a committee composed of Prince William and Manassas representatives. The group has been meeting monthly to identify the county’s key historic sites and plan events for residents, students and tourists. “I’d say we’re at the forefront in the state,” Hanafin said. “We’re very well positioned from a tourism standpoint.”
The committee will work with the state-level Sesquicentennial of the American Civil War Commission, created by the General Assembly in 2006 to coordinate and promote events in the state through its Web site, http://www.virginiacivilwar.org. The site also features an interactive map with a county-by-county account of each battle fought in Virginia.
No state played a more central role in the war than Virginia. The Old Dominion was host to the war’s first and last major battles and the Confederate capital, Richmond. Many of the rebel army’s top officers were Virginians, notably Gen. Robert E. Lee. Hundreds of thousands of Union and Confederate soldiers were cut down on Virginia soil.
The conflict’s major fighting came first to Prince William, when Union forces were defeated in an attempt to seize control of a strategic railroad junction near Manassas. Soldiers returned to the same site in 1862 for an even bloodier clash, and the two armies also fought at Bristoe Station in 1863, where the county recently opened the 133-acre Bristoe Station Battlefield Heritage Park. “Prince William was the front line,” Hanafin said.
Battles aren’t all that local officials are planning to commemorate, though, and there were other local events that factored into the war’s origins and aftermath, Hanafin said.
Some of the first Virginia militias to organize after Abraham Lincoln was elected president in 1860 did so at the recently renovated historic Brentsville Courthouse. And Dangerfield Newby, a former slave killed in John Brown’s raid on Harpers Ferry, W.Va., in 1859 while trying to win freedom for his wife and children, had been enslaved in the Brentsville area.
In 1911, 50 years after the war, elderly Union and Confederate veterans came together for the first time at the Manassas courthouse, along with President William Howard Taft, for the National Jubilee of Peace.
“It’s going to be a time when we can talk about this very important time in our history, and the social and political issues that created a great divide,” said John Verrill, director of the Manassas Museum and a committee member. “It’s important to know the history so we don’t repeat it.”
Patricia Jones, chief of interpretation at Manassas National Battlefield Park, has been representing the park at the meetings in hopes of creating a “signature event” to commemorate the First Battle of Bull Run in July 1861. Jones said that although several possibilities were under discussion, a large-scale reenactment was not one of them. “This is hallowed ground,” Jones said. “Let’s move those [reenactment] activities elsewhere.”
Jones said the park is planning to open a new interpretive center in time for the 2011 commemoration in a historic house at Brawner Farm. The $155,000 facility will be entirely devoted to the Second Battle of Bull Run, she said.
Others involved in the planning emphasized that the 150th anniversary would be a solemn observance, not a celebration. “It was a great tragedy, and we need to let people know what happened,” said Sen. Charles J. Colgan (D-Prince William), vice chairman of the state Sesquicentennial Commission. When he moved to the Prince William area in the early 1960s, said Colgan, 81, a Confederate flag flew above Manassas’s town hall and the local radio station heralded Prince William as the “Gateway to Dixie.”
These days, he doesn’t hear as much about the war, he said, and he figures local schoolchildren could stand to learn something. The commemoration “is going to be a lesson in history,” he said. Plans are also in the works for a Civil War exhibit in a tractor-trailer that would travel around the state, Colgan said
M-H, nevermind. I thought someone had posted that it was worth celebrating what the Confederates were fighting for, which is the continuation and spread of slavery. I don’t want to press the issue, the comment could be interpreted in other ways. Robert E. Lee apparently was fighting for Virginia, as he was more loyal to his state than to the country, even though he didn’t believe in slavery.
@clueless
That was very informative, clueless. It would appear that the folks currently tasked to commemorate the First Battle of Manassas are on the right (no pun intended) track. P particularly appreciated Patricia Jones, comment about a possible reenactment, “This is hallowed ground, Let’s move those [reenactment] activities elsewhere.”
I don’t care what people do with their own money on private property… just don’t ask for “my” money to do an reenactment on “my” park..
Peace… particularly in these troubled times… is what we should be celebrating.
@Witness too,
The issue of slavery certainly cannot be ignored in any of these discussions. However, it certainly was not the main cause of the war. I keep harping on this blog about states rights pretty much being stomped out as a result of the Civil War. I stand by that. Also, culturally, people then thought of themselves as Virginians first, Americans second. They didn’t want big government coming in and making decisions for them and telling them how to run their state. (sound familiar?)
Yes, Robert E. Lee could not bare to take up arms against Virginians, even though he had been offered a very sweet deal with the US Army. He certainly came from a class of people who integrated slavery into their social structure. I feel certain he had very conflicted feelings over slavery. He certainly had them over the Virginian/American thing.
“There are few, I believe, in this enlightened age, who will not acknowledge that slavery as an institution is a moral and political evil”. Robert E. Lee
I try not to judge people of those times and before by modern standards.
While we are on the subject of political correctness: From the article
In the south, it is common courtesy to refer to the southern troops as ‘Confederate Army’ not the ‘rebel’ army. The sons and daughters of the south really don’t care much for that terminology. I got punished big time as a kid for saying that in fact. Miroff should know better.
Also, on diversity….I hope our celebrating diversity with the civil war (whatever that means) doesn’t include rewriting history. I always hate when war is sanitized for the sake of those who came after it.
Sorry Clueles, I forgot to say thanks for digging up that article. I agree with Opinion (which often happens) I liked the hallowed ground comment.
@Poor Richard
Rita Koman is another local historian whose work is just amazing. I got to hear her give an overview of local government and history. What an education!
So who is she, Pinko? Tell us more.
I want to know the names of the 4 horsemen. I have forgotten the names.
This is an interesting read http://www.nps.gov/history/history/online_books/mana/adhi7a.htm It’s from the book BATTLING for MANASSAS: The Fifty-Year Preservation Struggle at Manassas National Battlefield Park (which I’m guessing a few of you have read). I think it will need an update. I found the mention of a local newsletter’s involvement in the “campaign against Marriott” particularly interesting.
From Chapter 11, BATTLING FOR MANASSAS, “The Virginia piedmont region “has soaked up more of the blood, sweat and tears,…has bred more founding fathers, inspired more soaring hopes and ideals and witnessed more triumphs and failures, victories and lost causes” than any other piece of the nation’s landscape, wrote Yale University historian C. Vann Woodward. “If such a past can render a soil ‘sacred,’ this sliver is the perfect venue.”
Pinko,
Rita was a popular government teacher at OHS for a number of years.
Her honors class would join city government for a day and have a mock
city council meeting on local issues in council chambers . Students would
meet with officials in the morning for Q&A and then represent
them in the “council meeting”.
@Opinion
I have lived here for a while and have never heard of this. I wonder why it did not come up when Disney made its proposal. Of course Disney’s theme park was not on a Battlefield. It was on the future home of many, many, many townhouses.
@clueless
They discuss Disney. The entire book is 0n-line (at the link in a previous post). I don’t know if the actual book is still available; however, I’m sure if it is it will suddenly get a couple of sales.
Not surprised that this may have been withdrawn. In any other year it probably would have been approved with little discussion. The December meetings are generally the ones where well-connected land use attorneys and mouthbreathers eager for a a handout….. err, fine, upstanding members of the BAR and altruistic public interest groups (funny how one member of VCWE’s board ties these two groups together) come before the board looking for approval for funding or development schemes that suddenly go from inactive to ready for a vote.
Generally, this time of year is marked by a lesser degree of public scrutiny by residents and watchdogs as time in peoples schedules is pressed by the demands of the holidays. This year however, it appears that the carefully crafted timing of the proposal ran afoul of the extended hue and cry over the senior citizens funding cuts, something I don’t think the VCWE or certain members of the BOCS counted on. Marty’s statements and Corey’s lipbiting signalled the end of this issue, at least until the new year. It will be watching in the coming months as I’m sure the smoke filled room in the back of the Appliance Connection is filled with handwringing conspirators plotting their strategy in advance of the budget discussions.
Mom, you need to write a book!
What genre, horror or political intrigue, I can make either work.
@Mom
The “wildcard” is the ever-growing community of relative well-off, educated, retired folks with time on their hands… experience in legislation at the Federal level (none of this amateur hour stuff)… and a taste for politics. I’m guessing these folks will be looking over BOCS agendas a bit more often, watching on-line, and perhaps deciding who our future Supervisors and Chairman are. The latest “incident” only demonstrates that “we are watching”.
Everyone needs a hobby… and shuffleboard doesn’t appeal to modern Seniors (of which I am one).
Perhaps there are a different group of watch dogs and different watch dog alliances have formed. Stranger things have happened.
What do we call female watch dogs? Bitches? Wooof Woooof
Anyone who has picked up a newspaper and looked at state budge cuts has to be asking themselves where they think any money for any fluff is going to come from. I don’t mean to imply that Civil War is fluffery. It isn’t. But it isn’t a necessity either.
There is also the cross jurisdictional matter and people living in both jurisdiction are concerned. Not opposed. Concerned. And oddly enough, it is a little difficult to determine who the bedfellows are. There are some mighty strange ones and ones the average bear wouldn’t be counting on.
As someone, MoM, I think said, you have to wonder when bvbl and anti-bvbl are expressing concerns. We have just been a little more tenacious about asking questions and a little less judgemental.
“experience in legislation at the Federal level “, that’s what I have been counting on for several years and likely will show its impact in the next BOCS election cycle. Sort of poetic that the approval of vast tracts of housing, including active senior communities, might prove to be the undoing of several supervisors.
Something along the lines of what Midnight in the Garden of Evil did for Savannah, please. At first the city hated it, now they embrace it and sell it everywhere because it’s the first thing tourists ask for (second, Paula Dean, third, Ruby).
How appropriate for the Sesquicentennial.
Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil. The Clorox fumes must have gone to my head. I’m cleaning for the arrival of my mother-in-law tomorrow.
Thinking more “Confederates In The Attic” – would tie in with the topic of
this thread.
( No question we have characters, but do have colorful characters like
Lady Chablis? — And yes, dear old Savannah loved Mr. Berendt’s novel
— once the tourist money showed. And who would be our voodoo lady?
Perhaps “Vampires of Manassas” – tie in with the battlefield? That might
have some bite).
Guffaw! I vote for Vampires of Manassas.
Poor Richard, Are there pictures in Confederates in the Attic? In other words, I want to get it on Kindle and if it has pics, then I wont.
Moot point. Confederate in the Attic has to be Ordered. I am striking out today.
I was thinking more of a reprise of the Inferno. We have plenty of people to fill each circle of Hell.
@Opinion
Opinion, It is for sale on Amazon but too pricy for my budget. I just ordered a used copy of the book online. I am hoping for some good holiday reading now that I have finished digging my driveway out.
@Mom
You know, I’ve been thinking about your comments, “In any other year it probably would have been approved with little discussion…this time of year is marked by a lesser degree of public scrutiny…”
In the age of blogs, I doubt there is little that will slip by the public’s attention any more. If Government is wise, they will use this technology to communicate with its residents to both ensure facts are shared and solicit community response to issues before they come to a vote.
The problem for bureaucrats is public involvement complicates Government. We “slow things down”… that’s a good thing. Efficiency only means they are spending our money that much fraster.
The first Supervisor to actually leverage this idea (my last post re blogs) wins and will probably be a footnote in the history of Government (perhaps even the subject of a college course).
I doubt any of the current supervisors, with the possible exception of May and maybe Stirrup, will make any great additional effort to communicate facts to the community. Not only does adequate disclosure slow some issues but also makes it makes it more difficult to railroad issues through, particularly those where the BOCS has already reached a conclusion and counted the votes prior to the meeting. The telling event will be the next election, particularly if one or more of the entrenched supervisors loses to a relative newcomer. One wild card that has been left out of the discussion is the new County Executive, whomever that may be. The VCWE issue is an example of business as usual in PWC, the agenda item is listed and the background information is conveniently unavailable. thus making it difficult to ask intelligent questions of the supervisors. That strategem is typical of Herr Gerhardt’s (RIP) administration, one usually enabled by his dutiful lackey, Ms. Peacor. It will be interesting to see how the new County Exec. handles such things and whether that attitude impacts similar actions by other departments, particularly the Planning Office.
@Mom
Excellent insight! Thanks, Mom. I guess we are looking for 21st Century thinking and leadership.
With a nod to the late Sy Sims, some local leaders really do think “that
an informed citizen is their best friend” – individuals who take the time to
examine an issue from all sides before reaching a conclusion, but real
citizen engagement is a two way street.
Wish we had versions of SIM City for PWC and Manassas. Each “player”
could make decisions on budgets, planning etc., but the program
simply wouldn’t allow you to demand more services, pay for
teachers, etc., without also selecting specific funding sources.
A logical realistic connection has to made between actions and impacts.
In our private lives, buying a new vehicle often
offers advantages – reliability, safety, lower fuel cost, but it
also means car payments, higher taxes, etc. — there are trade offs
and we need to understand those. Life isn’t alway a simplistic
Good vs. Bad.
And hopefully Anti-bvbl has allowed those informed citizens to become better informed and to discuss the issues and to learn from each other in an environment that is free from ridicule and name calling.
I also hope no one involved ever felt under attack from this blog. Our intent was to allow discussion to take place and to learn the plans, issues, etc. I have a great deal of respect for Mr. Owen’s commitment to preserving the past and for bringing in others to share our community. I simply wanted to know (and still want to know) how we can afford such lofty plans with our public coffers in the shape they are in.
This discussion is far from over. I never realized how much the Manassas area defined itself by the Battlefield and the historical significance of said battlefield. This has been one of our most discussed topics since the inception of Anti-bvbl.
While on vehicle analogies:
– Belonging to a party that always believes in pulling the steering wheel to
the right, OR one that always swings left will leave us in a ditch.
– The road changes – a speed that makes sense on a clear straight away,
is inviting death on a curvy narrow mountain road.
– In theory we could all be driving the same type, age, and color vehicle,
but we don’t. Taste, need and economic circumstances lead to what
you see everyday on a busy street. Diversity. Where we must agree
is on the basic rules of the road, for our common good.
Realizing we are “broke” (literally and figuratively) as a County, State, and Country will get us on the track. The alternative is to follow Ireland’s rather austere lead:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/21/AR2009122103522.html?nav=rss_email/components
(IMHO) we can either make sacrifices now to ensure public safety for our citizens or much pain later when we can afford nothing. Every Government benefit and check in the future (perhaps the near future) is at risk unless we do something now. That being said, why are we paying anything for a Sesquicentennial commemoration beyond a modest memorial (perhaps free if conducted by veterans groups). I’m guessing the unemployed and underemployed citizens in our County aren’t throwing many birthday parties for their children or spending much on presents this year. Perhaps we should follow their lead (if for no other reason, out of respect for the reality of the financial straits we are in and the sacrifices others are making just to get my).
These are tough times… Government should act like these are tough times.
“The past is never dead. It’s not even past.”
William Faulkner
To not understand the impact of the War Between the States on the South
is not to understand the South – even in 2010.
Poor Richard, you and I have benefitted from knowing the old people, those who have provided a bridge between the past and the present. I am humbled by their knowledge.
Too bad such knowledge was wasted on a young whelp like myself, who had no sense of the importance of those old people until I was ever so much older.
Opinion,
The Ireland situation is very frightening and I see our own reflection in their plight. Great Britain also suffers.
I believe we really have to start looking more at want vs need if we are to ever crawl out of this debt. Government decisions at all levels are going to have to look at the bottom line. What is the cost if we do this? What is the cost if we don’t do this.
I suppose I am just tired of these issues being politicized. No one party has the answer which I believe lies somewhere in the party of common sense.
@Moon-howler
Absolutely agree, M-h. That’s why I am proud to be an Independant voter! I really don’t need other people telling me what I should believe.
When it comes to actual representation, the “Party of Common Sense” is an exclusive splinter group relegated to tilting at windmills and moral stands in the face of opposition from the forces of the two “Just Common” organizations. Speaking of “Just Common”, I wonder if Corey spit up before or after he publicly praised Lord Connaughton’s appointment.
Poor Richard,
We have rebuilt so many countries we have gone to war with. Yet somehow, no country was ever treated as punitively as was the South. That is probably why people will not forget. And the ‘forget, hell no’ cartoon southerner…well…redneck ..really doesn’t tell the whole story. There is that element. Then there is the element of the old guard. Many people have moved on, but I expect not many moved until the baby boomers came along. Just a hunch.
At a Confederate Reunion in the Town of Manassas in the early 1900’s,
the song that brought down the house was “I’m A Good Old Rebel!”
according to the Manassas Journal.
Robert E. Lee’s birthday in January has been celebrated in Virginia
since 1889, joined by “Stonewall” Jackson in 1904.
The Old Dominion had Lee-Jackson-King Day from 1984 to 2000 when
Gov. Gilmore thought it was perhaps “incongrous” and created two
separate holidays.
Who else could have?
“Who else could have made them fight: could have struck them
so aghast with fear and dread as to turn shoulder to shoulder
and face one way and even stop talking for a while and even
after two years of it keep them so wrung with terror that some
among them would seriously propose moving their capital into
a foreign country lest it be ravaged by a people whose entire white
male population would have little more than filled any one of their
large cities: except Jackson in the valley and three separate armies
trying to catch him and none of them knowing whether they were
just retreating from a battle or just running into one and Stuart riding
his whole command entirely around entirely around the biggest single
army armed force this continent ever saw in order to see what it looked
like from behind and Morgan leading a cavalry charge against a stranded
man-of-war. Who else could have declared war against a power with
ten times the area and a hundred times the men and a thousand times
the resources, except men who could believe that all necessary to
conduct a succesful war was not acumen nor shrewdness nor politics
nor diplomacy nor money nor simple arithmetic – but just love of the land
and courage.”
William Faulkner
The Encyclopedia Virginia is now up and running:
http://www.encyclopediavirginia.org/
Cool beans!@Moon-howler
Check this out for recording community stories:
http://www.orton.org/news/release/community_almanac_puts_america_on_the_map