Much as been said since Christmas Day about the use of the full body scan. Some countries immediately began using the scanners. Reagan Airport locally is using full body scanners. However, there are many privacy issues that are preventing TSA from implementing these machines from full use at all airports for all passengers.
The body scanners are quite controversial because of privacy and basically, getting a bird’s eye view of people in private areas. Women seem to feel far more violated than do men.
Should all passengers undergo a full body scan or is enough enough? Will the body scanners stop terrorists or is this just another hoop to jump through? Are we giving up all our rights of privacy to be safe or to give an illusion that we are safe?
Something else to thing about with the body scanners, child porn laws…
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/jan/04/new-scanners-child-porn-laws
Heard an interesting interview on WTOP yesterday evening on this very issue – with the former (now retired) head of security of Israel’s El Al airline. He said we are going about this all the wrong way. I’ll dig up that interview and post the link to it here – you’ll find it very very interesting to listen to!
Can’t find it on there. The gist was – full body scans unncessary. Instead, US should follow El Al’s security procedures, which have been very successful. They are onerous – it is a slow process getting through their security – you need to be there 3-4 hours before a flight. Everyone is subjected to things like a brief interview to see what they claim their reason for traveling is, every carry-on bag is hand inspected, and a good number of checked bags are too. Also, everyone is subjected to a pat-down i think, if I remember right. The Israeli’s have had great success with this – think about in recent years all the terror bombings in Israel – for awhile Palestinian suicide bombers were striking places like grocery stores, public buses, and other places like that several times a week! During that time, not one problem occured on El Al Airlines. In fact, nothing really slips through El Al’s security – this guy said they had a 100% record in catching all would-be perpretrators before they boarded the flight. And, they had many many arrests over the years.
Too bad that audio file doesn’t seem to be there – on WTOP’s website. Oh well.
El Al is very successful, but it is a small fleet of planes in a small country. Are their tactics even manageable in a large country like ours? Can we even pretend to emulate them?
Do they still have their military serving in the capacity of TSA or is that now with contract workers?
Hello, I guess they would have to race some legislation through that gave a waiver for body scanners as far as child porn laws go.
Would men scan men and women scan women? How does this all work?
El Al has such a smaller scale, I just don’t know if it would be feasible to implement on a such a large scale. Having flown El Al, even 25 years ago, they WERE extremely efficient, they didn’t care WHO you were, you were seen as a possible threat. NO smiles from their checkers for sure.
I say full body scan!
The scanners that are in use in the US are viewed remotely. (ie. the person walking through the scanner at DCA is seen by a person at an off-site facility.) Somehow that is seen as less of an invasion of privacy since you don’t see the person who sees you.
I’ve gone through them a few times, and I don’t have a problem with them. There are some reports that extensive use of them can give you an increased risk of skin cancer. (The jury is still out on this though.) As for the nudity issue, I don’t really care. I’m no exhibitionist, but I don’t have a problem with people seeing me naked if there’s a legitimate reason for it. Keeping nuts from blowing themselves (and me) up is a good enough reason until somebody comes up with a better way to prevent it.
I do think scanning everybody is a waste of resources though. There should be some random scanning along with profiling of passengers likely to be a threat. This would-be bomber on Christmas day should have stuck out like a sore thumb for extra intensive screening. We have a finite amount of resources to use to stop the bad guys. Every time you confiscate somebody’s Congressional Medal of Honor (Yes, TSA actually confiscated a CMH from a WW2 who was travelling with it) you are wasting resources that could have been used to screen a real bad guy. Needless to say, Congressional Medal of Honor winners should be pretty much at the bottom of any threat list.
Please note: I am not advocating racial or religious profiling. But profiling based on behavior or on flights originating from airports with security issues are fair game.
Last sidebar: Why is it that the over three million people in this country with security clearances are not eligible for some sort of reduced screening process? They have already been investigated by one part of the government and found to be trustworthy. Shouldn’t that make them less of a risk than a random person off the street. I’m not saying let them walk on board with a gun, but major airports should have an express lane for cleared people.
great question Moon, I would think that women would scan women and men would scan men. After all, that is how they do pat downs. But what do you do with kids, have women scan them? Do you set an age limit for scanning children?
Form Anon,
Great question about screening people who have security clearances.
I got a nice hand job from a male TSA agent in Tuscon, AZ one morning. I gave him a $20. Got the free prostate exam too. All things considered, I would have enjoyed it more if I had a drink or two in me.
Does the body scan really give up your privacy? Well, no one says that you have to fly, if you want to fly, you have to subject yourself to the additional screening. Flying is a privilege, not a right.
Males are viewed by males, females by females. The machine guns displayed by the El Al security guards also help with the appearance that they mean business.
The Clear (Registered Traveller) program was in effect for a while – they performed a background check on you, and you carried an ID card, and the machine compared you with your biometrics to validate that you were who you said you were, and you were whisked through security, but alas, it was not profitable enough for the Clear program to continue, and it shutdown last year.
Slowpoke, what are you drinking?
The idea of letting people with security clearances through is a good one.
That registered traveler program sounded like a plan. Why was it not profitable? Now there is where a bail out should have gone.
Put me in the body scan vote with Elena and Formerly Anonymous — but with the caveat that a lot of other techniques should be employed, including many recommended by the Israelis. My only fear is that, when that person sees my old body in that machine, he or she may faint dead away!
@Moon-howler Re registered traveler… I still have my clear card. For $200 a year, I got to use the special gate at Dulles. Did an eye scan, never crowded, always fast, worth $200. I hope they bring the program back.
I’m for body scanners. Privacy is highly over-rated in today’s world. I would trade security for a compromise in privacy anyway. For the record, no one “must” go through a body scanner. All one has to do is indicate they would rather not and they will be subjected to a hand pat down. I’ve been through those… they use a wand… not that big a deal.
Privacy is a quaint concept unique to our society in the last few decades… it’s not a keeper considering the unique threats we face from gangs, terrorists, identity-thieves, etc. I always believe people should be able to “opt out” of evasive security controls… but at their own risk. I will always “opt in”.
The quickest fix to our security controls would be to adopt Israeli Airport security procedures. Fast, efficient, thorough.
@Elena
>>> I say full body scan!
You first!
};-)
Where does it stop? Since the body scan can’t pick up objects hidden in body cavities, are you all willing to undergo a cavity search to further the illusion that “something is being done” to make flying safer for you?
@Pat.Herve
>>> Flying is a privilege, not a right.
Neither. It’s a service provided by a business which you pay for.
>>> Males are viewed by males, females by females.
So what about cross-dressers? Whoa, what a can of worms!
We can live in fear and slowly watch our freedoms stripped away, or we can keep things in perspective.
Chances of dying of various causes (National Safety Council):
in a motor vehicle accident: One in 83 lifetime risk.
in an airplane crash: One in 5,000 lifetime risk.
walking across the street: A lifetime risk of one in 625.
drowning: One in 1100 lifetime risk.
in a fire: About the same risk as drowning.
Contrast these with the odds of dying in a terrorist attack. One study estimated that if terrorists hijacked and crashed one of America’s 18,000 commercial flights per week that your chance of being on the crashed plane would be one in 135,000.
In this case, numbers are just numbers. One of the maddest I have ever been at a family member was at the Vietnam Memorial. I was having one of those moments that one has at the Vietnam Memorial when he turned on me and said, this many people are killed on the highway each year. ARRGGHHHHHHHHH Not the point.
We also cannot, as a country, be target practice for a bunch of religious zealots who want to kill us.
And speaking of such, the Underpants Bomber is a sad case. He said he was lonely and had no friends. And here was the Al Qada cult right ready to take him in. Many of our own young people are also this vunerable to various groups who only want to use lonely people to accomplish their purposes.
@Emma
Emma, thank you for those statistics. You sound like a voice of reason. I am not keen on the body scanners or cavity searches! But I wonder if there is a compromise. I heard a reasonable sounding member of Congress advocating for the body scanners, saying that there could be a separate line for people who refuse. It would be faster to go through the body scan, but if you get there with enough time to spare you could go in the other line that screens people thoroughly without making a naked picture of them.
I think a lot of people would just do the naked picture and save time, but they would not be forced to. It would be their choice. Personally, I am always early for flights because I don’t like to stress out, so I would be able to go in the slower, less intrusive line.
I can’t get over the 1 in 83 chance of dying in a motor vehicle accident. Really?
You may be right about El Al’s security procedures not being able to scale to accomodate our much bigger airline infrastructure.
i never had the privelidge (yet) of flying El Al or visiting Israel, unfortunately. one of these days I want to get there, and hopefully I will.
Personally, I’m not bugged about a full body scan, if they want to see what my body looks like under my clothes, that’s fine with me.
I’ve been subjected to more intense security at military bases – having to get out of the rental car and pop the hood, the trunk, all 4 doors – having them look under the bottom of the car with mirrors for explosive devices, etc etc. So whatever they conjure up at airports, isn’t going to bug me too much.
Is anyone else just beyond sick of terrorists? I am beginning to feel down right uncivilized about them and I am also beginning to not care much about people’s privacy or civil rights when it comes to terrorism.
Actually, this may be the best idea – incorporate the best of the Israeli practices along with the full body scan. Sort of a “hybrid” approach. The Israeli’s apparently are doing SOMETHING right – and there’s nothing that says we have to adopt the “full” El Al approach.
Looking under the car is not quite the same thing as looking under you.
I also think men feel differently about this kind of invasiveness than most women. Someone this morning…maybe formerly, said that the lookers were in another building. That makes it less intrusive.
The registered traveler program was great. I was in it, and it made going through security painless. You had to subject yourself to an investigation, but having passed security clearance investigations this one was a cakewalk for me. For while it lasted, it was great.
I believe, the company that implemented it for FAA – either didn’t feel it was profitable, or wanted to hike the fees, or someting. I can’t recall why the program was killled. Too bad. While in it, you were whisked through security – it was fantastic. At Dulles you had a separate entry area downstairs, and once ID was verified, you were personally escorted up to the front of the regular security screening lines, and really sped the process up. A great program, which lived a far too short lifetime.
Since the TSA has been such a pain for travelers lately, I think that the torture of forcing them to look at the average American’s naked body is absolutely appropriate. Revenge!!!!!!!!
However, I think that anytime supermodels fly, it should be put up on the big screen……
Cargo, spoken like a true male. 🙄
Good to see you. Happy New Year.
I don’t know if this has been suggested, but what they need to do is let the computer determine if the person has an unusual image using image recognition. Software can detect faces and such, so detecting simple abnormal dark or light patterns in a scan shouldn’t be that difficult. Only those scans flagged by the computer would then undergo human inspection. This would greatly reduce the ‘naked body’ issue.
So MH, based on your comment #19 above, have you read Al Qaeda’s new book ‘How to Make Bombs and New Friends’? Problem is the new friendships don’t last long!
Archie Bunker believed that if every passenger was stripped naked and given a loaded gun, that would end any terrorist nonsense on planes.
@Second-Alamo
You know, Second-Alamo, that is a very good, technically possible idea that I can get to the right people. Thanks!
I agree, that’s a great idea. They already use facial recognition to identify people. That’s a very good idea for the use of that technology.
SA, that comment certainly wasn’t to have pity on any of them. I just pointed out that here is a young adult who gets sucked in because of loneliness. Prisons are supposedly a great contact also. And no, I don’t know what you do about it.
Well, yea I do …I know what *I* would do about it but it isn’t legal.
Opinion, does SA get the patent?
I’m ok with body scans but I kind of feel for the TSA guys and what they would have to see on those scans. I’m sure they would see far more of the very scary naked type of people than the Pamela Lee Anderson type of naked people. They will probably have to pay TSA hazardous duty extra pay for looking at all those bodies.
However, I’m not sure the scanners would have caught this guy. The body scans provide a 360 degree horizontal view, so if the plastic was a flat package tucked in his crotch, as long as it was thin enough, I don’t think they would have been able to see anything unless the scanner shot the photo from the floor up to catch vertical images as well. The chemical package probably would have just looked like a adult diaper pad. So what would they say then? Can you please remove your adult diaper pad so we can take a look at it? Eeewhh!
Then they would have to come out with a policy that people couldn’t wear Depends.
Ya know, if travelers think that the TSA is incompetent and rude now, wait until they’re unionized…….
What is the point in them being unionized? I haven’t figured out the features, advantages and benefits on that one. The ones that were before TSA, I forget the name of the contractor, were just horrible. Rude, ignorant, ineffective. A terrorist could have gone through riding an elephant and not have been stopped.
Most of them were not American.
I figure terrorists are always going to be one step ahead of us, Anon. We need to think like terrorists based on info, not react to every stunt they pull.
Is this guy in the picture a Ken doll, an triple amputee, or is he just an artist rendering that is deliberately hiding something that would be a lot more clearly outlined in actual practice? Only men screening men and women screening women is supposed to help people feel better about being scanned but about the hysterical homophobes? I am not a homophobe but if I were going to have someone checking out my package I’d prefer a woman.
I agree with those who say this is not the best use of finite national security funds. Terrorist profiling (as opposed to racial profiling) is cheaper and probably more effective. The Amsterdam airport had full body scans and it didn’t scare the panty bomber none.
Justin, and what if she were disappointed? LOL I am sorry Justin, I just couldn’t resist. The Devil made me type that. bad bad!!! smack Moon.
Possible but not likely, M-H. (=<
A terrorist does not have to ignite a single explosive to bring down the United States. All they have to do is break through the ever-growing and ever-more-expensive security barriers. And every time there is a breach, the response will be tailored to that particular breach. I heard today that we are assigning air marshals on EVERY U.S.-bound flight at who knows what expense.
They will bring us down economically. No blood need be shed. They have plenty of willing sacrificial lambs to spare to breach our defenses, and then they will be allowed to use our legal system to their advantage.
I’ve seen a few of the woman shots…….not too shabby! Fap!
Poke, did your pop rocks go off on the blue cat woman from Avatar as well?
I rather like the idea of sky marshalls being on all inbound flights. Does that include all airlines entering the USA or just American owned airlines?
I am assuming we still have them randomly on domestic flights?
@JustinT
Haven’t seen it.
They are for overseas flights by US carriers@Moon-howler
There is blue cat people nudity, and they glow in the dark kind of like Ken doll. Go see it and tell us who you were rooting for.
Justin, what are you smoking? Explain more, por favor! Blue cat people nudity? Is this in a movie?
I’ve heard the percentage of domestic flights with sky marshalls is a very shocking LOW number, much lower than you think. I heard that a year ago or so – can’t remember now. No one really knows – but I heard an interview on WTOP with a former sky marshall, who threw out a percentage, and it was I THINK like less than 10%, maybe even 5%.
Remember, there’s LOTS of domestic flights every day – and there’s not many sky marshalls. So if you think about how many domestic flights a day there are – even 10% is a BIG number, proably not the manpower for sky marshalls to be on 10% of our domestic flights.
Now, having them on ALL flights coming into the USA – logic says that will probably reduce the numbers on domestic flights even more!