I think only a fool would underestimate this movement. There are lots and lots of people out there who are angry and mad. Angry, mad people won’t just go away. However, if the people I see in this video represent this movement, I fear for our country.
Are these people imposters? Do they not represent the Tea Party Movement? Why should I not believe these are the people of the grass roots movement. Convince me I am wrong.
There are people who are tired of this topic. There certainly are topics I am tired of, yet I keep hearing them. I cannot turn on my TV without hearing about them and many ideas I feel are repugnant. I am tired of hearing the President being called a socialist. I feel it is disrespectful. I am tired of hearing he isn’t an American. That too is disrespectful. I dislike hearing people call for revolution. I feel this call threatens my country. Convince me I have misunderstood.
Why is calling the President a socialist disrespectful?
He doesn’t think the term Progessive is disrespectful and Progressive movement is a socialist movement. Obama is a self-identified progressive that has admitted to wanting to “fundamentally transform America.”
Now, about that birth certificate. The topic won’t go away because he refuses to come clean not only on this subject but on most of his writings, transcripts, long form birth certificate. There are valid questions as to his actual citizenship that could be cleared up very simply. Now, do I believe that he was born in Kenya. I have no proof that he was born there. The available proof says otherwise, ie, the Hawaii short form Certificate of Live Birth.
However, the problem is moot. He is President. Excepting hard evidence of malfeasance, he will stay as President.
I can understand you disliking the call for revolution. However, an actual revolution that involves violence is not even on the horizon. The revolution that the Tea Parties advocate is a revolution in how Congress and local governments respond to citizens. Obama and Congress are the ones attempting an actual revolution. They want to put into place structures that will take over entire sectors of our society. The Revolution that the Tea Party wants is a return to Constitutional government. No more “business as usual.”
It’s similar to calling Bush a war criminal in that it all depends on your perspective. I won’t try to argue which is more obscenely biased, and even if I did I’m sure I couldn’t budge anyone from one side or the other. Politics is presented to us as a zero sum game. This kind of overblown language is effective because it frightens and motivates those people like the ones in this video who are not interested in critical thinking.
What’s so frightening about it is that these are precisely the types of people who are the most dangerous to society. Capable of reconciling such cognitive dissonance that they might justify acts of violence as a necessary means to an end that is falsely justified by conspiracy theories and lies.
I was just floored that the woman who announced with such certainty that the Constitution was no longer the governing document of the US could not come up with a single example of how that was so. How can you be so certain about something that was fed to you, without being curious to know why it was fed to you, by whom, or whether it was true?
And also, how could people this ignorant afford to pay more than $1000 bucks for a weekend with similarly ignorant people and the media?
And why is it national news when a measly 600 people gather to trade conspiracy theories and lies? Star Trek conventions draw thousands of people, only the participants are actually aware the story they’re being fed is fiction.
So sad.
Cargo Squid, you would have fit right in with the people in that video. At least you’re wise enough to hide your identity. Those people will be embarrassments to their children and their children’s children for years to come. Don’t you notice how only certain types of people are taking the position that there is any reason other than racism to doubt the president’s citizenship? Even Glenn Beck isn’t willing to go that far off the deep end. And as the interviewer points out, neither is the skinniest kid at fat camp O’Reilly. If you are too batty for Fox News, well, you’ve discredited yourself beyond repair. You need to accept the fact that more people voted for President Obama than have ever voted for any president, and yes, many of them were “multicultural.” Deal with it.
Wow, Witness, you sure like to lecture people who don’t agree with you.
Ouch. Wit2, I have always found Cargo to be a reasonable person. He is far more conservative than you but that doesn’t make him a crackpot. I am far more conservative than you. Maybe I am a crackpot….sigh.
Cargo, I considered myself progressive. I don’t think I am a socialist. Suddenly ‘progressive’ has taken on a new meaning–fairly recently.
I do not think the President is a socialist or even close to it. As long as people say things like this, they are going to get a hostile reaction. It really is an inflammatory thing to say.
Wolfie, actually since when has socialist become a nasty word? The USSR was not a “socialist” country but as a political entity was a totalitarian structure with a communist economic system. .
According to Wikipedia, “Most socialists share the view that capitalism unfairly concentrates power and wealth among a small segment of society that controls capital and derives its wealth through exploitation, creates an unequal society, does not provide equal opportunities for everyone to maximise their potential and does not utilise technology and resources to their maximum potential nor in the interests of the public.”
Even the German Socialist Party (would use the common name but I think it is still banned here) was not based on socialist economic policy but was a political entity based on nationalist policy which made them dangerous.
At any rate, “tax the rich” and “spread the wealth” are part of socialist economic theory but should never be used to describe a political theory. “Tax the rich” is the same as “capitalism unfairly concentrates power and wealth among a small segment of society” and “spread the wealth” is the same as “provide equal opportunities for everyone to maximise their potential.”
It is not a flattering word to most Americans. It is rarely said in a flattering way.
I have said share the wealth for years in my job. I wasn’t a socialist. To someone my age, it is just not a term that you call Americans without risking getting punched in the nose.
Capitalism, socialism all have different degrees of commitment.
And no, I lifted the ban as long as people are responsible with it.
And my age is older I believe.
It is because 2 of the most tyrannical organizations used the word “socialism”– the USSR and The German Socialist Party. It wasn’t socialism that was necessarily bad, it was the political structure that was vicious. It is the same thing if I took over a country and called my political party, the National Golf Party. Well, if I am vicious, after a while people would think golfers were nasty people (I have played with some of them but that is another thread 🙂 ) My point is that the name of the organization could use a term that is benign but have a bad connotation.
Like it or not, socialism is about taxing the haves and giving it to the have-nots.
But people who know that neither of these organizations represented socialist economic policy like places like England and other European countries. Those European countries are where the term “socialized medicine” came from or “spread the medical resources over the largest number of people.”
I don’t know about that. Rez, you being older. No spring chicken here. bok bok.
Americans have never liked socialism even if they practice it a bit. You and I both know that. In America, the term socialist is very negative. And in my lifetime, if you got too socialist in your thinking, you could have been hauled in before Congress.
No, I won’t want our president called a socialist. (and I don’t believe he is)
I take a different position on this Tea Party segment of society than most. I understand them, but I believe they are as dangerous as the “progressives”, primarily because one of the common themes of people who attend these group tea party conventions is a common religious background for “most” of them, and specifically a type of religious background that hates people who are not like themselves, specifically people who oppose their beliefs of Levitican Law, and a need to punish mankind for not living Levitican Law. These people take the punishment right of God and give it to themselves to carry out on this earth, they get angry easily, hate others easily, listen to the political positions of their pastors and interestingly promote their own wealth as a divine right given to them by God to seek as much wealth as possible as part of their Levitican Doctrine, i.e it is OK to hate people who are poor and not of your religious faith, and to seek desire for wealth ordained by God by words and ideas put forth by modern evangelical and charasmatic pastors, words to seek material wealth and happiness through God (you hear these people promote wealth and religion hand in hand all the time.)
I am opposed to them…but I’m also opposed to “progressives” for the same reason. Progressive Religion is the religion of socialism, and distribution of wealth based on what race you belong to, not what ability you have. I don’t like these people running the government either…
I don’t know which of them is the greater threat to Democracy (the Democracy created by the Academics of Greece and philosophical concepts of Free Masons)..which honors and protects the individual, based on individual right to hard work and individual seeking of prosperity through one’s own freedom of thought and freedon of action without government or religious oppression (both of which exist in the political parties of today)
That makes a lot of sense Michael. I have never been to a progressive hate party convention, but if you say they exist, I’m sure they are just as bad. But you lost me on Levitican Law. I got way too big a dose of religiosity for one night reading about the anti-martian-anal-probing law.
Michael,
I have no idea where you’re getting the religious aspect of the TEA Party. Having attended a few of them, the overriding theme is vote out the crooks in DC. Apparently, the fact that many of them might be religious and conservative concerns you. I have yet to find any that “hate people who are not like themselves,” and I think that you are trying to say that these people are homophobes. Sexuality is the LAST thing on their minds.
Moon,
Socialism gets a bad rap in the US because it is antithetical to basic US doctrine. But socialism has a long history in the US, starting with the Continental Congress. If one defines socialism by the idea of taking money from one citizen and giving it to another, then they wanted to do that back then to help widows.
Modern socialism is more of a political philosophy. Your beliefs may be socialistic. Some of the nicest people believe that socialism is a cure for many ills. Obama is definitely a socialist in that he follows the progressive ideas of the early 20th century. Beck may be something of a whack job, but he does teach history. And its accurate. I actually had already known this history before Beck discovered it. He’s not making it up.
If Obama surrounds himself with socialists, was mentored by socialists, taught socialist techniques, and talks about re-distributing wealth, and solves problems by wanting to nationalize industries,……….he’s a socialist. And the TEA Party is against that.
Congress and Obama are refusing to compromise or listen to the American people. They are trying to ram through unreadable legislation that no-one understands, other than the authors. And those authors, for the health care bill, are socialists/progressives.
I will grant this to the progressives. In THEIR eyes, their intentions are good. However, progressives intend to help you whether you like it or not. The entire progressive philosophy can be summed up in: “I just haven’t explained it well enough. You don’t understand it. Trust us. We’re the experts.”
Wit,
Subscribing racism to others motives for doubting Obama’s eligibility is weak. Obama has demonstrated a complete lack of transparency for ANY of his history. His citizenship has questions exactly because he has not been forthcoming. However, I believe the entire controversy is now a waste of time. Its moot. He’s President.
I never found the cry of “war criminal” against Bush to be offensive. I would only state, “prove it.” If you can, impeach him. Its our right. Obama’s policies are demonstrably socialist. Socialism and socialist are NOT bad words or insults. They are descriptions of political philosophy. While I may disagree with them and think that some believers is said philosophy to be evil, the philosophy itself is not evil, except in the subservience of the individual to the state.
Apparently the Constitution is NOT the governing document it once was. Pelosi was stunned that any would question her authority to mandate that private citizens buy health insurance. The czars that are so popular now in the Executive branch have NO authority under the Constitution. The 2nd and 10th Amendments are routinely scoffed at. The Commerce Clause and the General Welfare Clause are used as excuses to steamroll many states by the federal leviathan.
And who do I blame? Not Congress or Obama. I blame “we the people.” We keep voting in these idiots that steal from us and we don’t hold them accountable. Glenn Beck is right when he says that BOTH parties separate us to stay in power. He’s not saying anything new. Why don’t you think that “independents” are the majority. Well, now the citizenry is finally waking up and the powers that be are nervous.
The only ones that I hear justifying any means are on the left. The only violence I’ve seen is on the left. The TEA Party movement is remarkably NON-violent and is actually quite upbeat. That’s not to say that they are not angry with the current crop of politicians. But the revolution that they seek is at the ballot box. One movement is to become party committee members to influence who will be the future candidates. Of both parties.
While some of those people may not be able to articulate which exact rights they may have lost, they do understand that the government is overreaching. When those rights are enumerated and how the government is restricting them, people, at that time, recognize the situation. And Beck is the only on in the media explaining it. I mean, millions are tuning in to get his history lessons. About Woodrow Wilson and Calvin Coolidge. And the history of progressiveism and socialism. And how those philosophies can be evil.
Moon,
You may think of yourself as progressive. You may be, or not. Look up the history of the term. You may want to change the label you use. I would use the term liberal for myself if it still held its ORIGINAL meaning, but it was hijacked by the progressive movement in the 40’s. You may believe that government should play a large role in people’s lives. I won’t speculate as to your philosophy as I am completely ignorant of what you actually believe. I don’t wish to stereotype you.
The TEA Party is in its infancy. It is filled with people that have NEVER, EVER been politically involved before. And it has not unified message other than that Congress is not responding to the people and is spending too much. The recent “national Tea Party” convention was anything but that. Tea Parties are decentralized and local. That is their strength. We have no leaders. We don’t need or want one. We want change. We’re hoping for that in 2010 and 2012. Hope. Change. Sound familiar?
“I am tired of hearing the President being called a socialist. I feel it is disrespectful.”
He has leaned hard to the left, and is devoted to income distribution (rather than finding new ways to earn). Increasingly, I see truth in the label. He looks to me like a hard leftist who masqueraded as a centrist to get elected.
I keep seeing so many terms around that simply cannot be proven. Prove that Obama is redistributing wealth. He is no more redistributing wealth than any other modern president has. Political jibber jabber.
The establishment clause is continually scoffed at in my book, every time some do-gooder wants to come in and sneak the 10 commandments up in a classroom, or pray at a flag pole or pray before a board of supervisors meeting. Does it hurt me, no. Does it violate my constitutional rights? I think it does. I am probably as nuts on the subject as some of you all are on gun rights. It isn’t hurting me one little bit not to go buy a gun a day. I can’t afford it either. Perhaps the state is helping me manage my money a little better.
I found calling President Bush a war criminal horribly offensive. I found calling him and President Clinton draft dodgers horribly offensive. I find calling Obama a socialist very offensive regardless of how much the insult is hidden in ‘hopey changey’ words. It is meant as an insult and I take it as an insult.
In our country, calling someone a socialist always has a negative connotation and to attempt to sanitize the epithet. I am too old to be fooled by weasel words of making nice.
Perhaps my crime is to try to find some good and decency in each person elected president. We are stuck with them for 4 years so try to make the best of it.
Obama’s self-admitted intentions are to re-distribute the wealth. Personally, I don’t find having no prayers in the governmental facilities to be a problem. Or in school.
Bush, in certain eyes, was a war criminal. I found it to be problematic only in that there was no intention of charging him and proving it, so it was empty slander. Clinton was a draft evader. He used legitimate means, as did Cheney, to avoid the draft. Bush was clearly not a draft dodger as he was ALREADY IN the service.
Socialist can be used as an insult, but, its only an insult to those that dislike socialism. As I wrote, socialism is negative in this country because it goes against many American principles. But, if the shoe fits……
Obama’s intentions, in a progressive’s eyes are good. It is in the eyes of non-progressives that his intentions are considered, at the least, misguided, if not evil.
If you don’t think of Obama, Pelosi, etc, as socialists or progressives, then what are they?
[…] Moon-howler fears the Tea Party movement, Don’t Underestimate this Movement! This post features a video. The trailer at the end of the video is a giveaway, New Left […]
In my opinion and also from a study of history,
Obama is a socialist who wants to promote race equalization but in reality promotes racial and ethnic group superiority, privilege and advantaqge in terms of 8A wealth re-distribution by race, gender, and ethnicity…historically socialists have also been radically racist (promoting the social rise of their own race to wealth and political power)…
Pelosi is a socialist who wants to promote gender equalization but in reality promotes gender superiority, privilege and advantage in terms of 8A wealth distribution by gender…historically gender socialists have also radically been misandrists (haters of men)
Glenn Beck and “most” of the attendees and supporters of the Tea Party movement have their “roots” in evangelical and charasmatic churches to put “God” back into government, (to put George Bush into power as a religious right wing Levitican Law following obligation keeper of the religious law of the old testament, to take over the republican party to oppose abortion, to support religious charter schools, to support school prayer, the removal and undermining of the establishment clause of the constitution, to promote self-protection gun laws as a religious movement trend which is afraid of races, afraid of muslims, and hispanic, black and asian criminal gang takeovers of primarily white, catholic, protestant conservative neighborhoods, to follow the religious strategy of Tom Delay, Newt Gingrich and later covert religious leaders that masked a religious political movement…and to put in wealth and power an “intelligensia” that promoted religious issues and wealth distribution to corporations backed by religious ideology and religious enterprise to oppress the rest of the religions in the world from invading and taking over America (thus becoming religious patriots, defending religious levitican law as the basis for the foundation of our government…
Contrast these two party philosophies with the history of the “templars” and the history of the “free masons” who were responsible both for a governent founded on a democratic principal to give the power of self-government to the individual, not to a religious entity or religious group (like the catholic church who ruled government and validated divinity of KINGS and other political seekers of wealth since 180 AD… AND created a BILL of Rights (written by Free Masons) to ensure that RACIAL preference and RACIAL discrimmination, and RELIGIOUS descrimmination, does not oppress individuals by racial and factional religious elements taking over the government….These principals are the essence of Democracy ..and BOTH parties are undermining these principals, GREATLY pissing off the INDEPENDENT MAJORITY of the population that supports the original “free mason” concept of democracy and common law… that governments should serve the comman man as an individual only consenting to be governed…and should ensure the pursuit of equal rights for all in the pursuit of liberty and happiness (wealth to each according to his ability and hard work, not religion, royalty, or racial privilege ….
The “templars” and later the “masons” were promoters of free market (not for the royalty but for the commoners who worked hard to start businesses) and promoted greatest wealth held by merchants (or commoners) free of religious oppression and racial or royalty advantage…
That is what Obama, Pelosi and the tea party DO NOT represent..and it pisses the rest of us off (religious liberators and independents) who are just rying to make a decent living based on our God-given abilities…
Moon, looking at this thread and previous ones, I can only conclude that the whole “tea party” idea is, indeed, having a strong effect. Whether you dislike what you see in videos such as this one or believe as I do that this video represents only a small snippet of that larger national “state of mind” out there, the reponses here show that people are really starting to think about our current national state and where we might wind up going with it. I like to think that, when we do start talking to each other like this, our great country usually winds up in a much better place with greater mutual understanding. That, in my opinion, is one of the reasons why the country is “great.” In many other places where I have lived and worked, the guns and knives would have been out long before this. In America we have fashioned something almost totally unique, and it looks like we still may understand how to make it work, no matter how tough things may get.
Wolverine, most importantly, there are people like you out there who analyze and discuss rather than mouth-flash, incite, and sound-byte. People like you do not get the press coverage. And I doubt if many of those shown in some of the outrageous videos would listen anyway.
Michael —Just out of curiosity, how would you handle this one? One of my second cousins on my mother’s side just died a couple of years ago. I found out that he was a lifetime Free Mason and a very active one. He was also a lifetime member of an evangelical Baptist church and a very devout member at that. Moreover, before he retired he was a high-level executive in a major oil company. How would this guy fit into your theory?
@Cargosquid
The birth certificate error was thrown out of district court and federal court due to lack of evidence. Personally, I think some of this “birther” / “tea party” stuff is due to racism alone. People just can’t stand the fact that a black man is in the White House.