Another article people have to read for themselves appears below, therefore it is posted in its entirety. We are not going to comment from the post. All 3 moderators do not agree on the topic of abortion. Therefore, we will not comment from the post.
UPDATE: Thread titled changed. I just found that too offensive to have sitting there on this blog.
From The Gainesville Times:
Lawmaker: Disabled kids are god’s punishment
February 22, 2010 – 11:27am
RICHMOND – Western Prince William Del. Bob Marshall, R-13th, says disabled children are God’s punishment to women who have aborted their first pregnancy.
He made that statement last Thursday at a press conference to oppose state funding for Planned Parenthood.
“The number of children who are born subsequent to a first abortion with handicaps has increased dramatically. Why? Because when you abort the first born of any, nature takes its vengeance on the subsequent children,” said Marshall, a Republican.
“In the Old Testament, the first born of every being, animal and man, was dedicated to the Lord. There’s a special punishment Christians would suggest.”
Marshall was among more than 20 people, mostly Christian pastors and clergy, who gathered for the press conference in the General Assembly Building.
They called on Virginia officials to eliminate state funding for Planned Parenthood because the organization provides abortions.
“We are gathered this afternoon to draw attention to the unethical, immoral and racist practices of the largest abortion provider in America,” said Dean Nelson, executive director of the Network of Politically Active Christians.
Delegate Brenda Pogge, R-Williamsburg, has joined Marshall in co-sponsoring a budget amendment to eliminate state funding for Planned Parenthood.
“I think that the reason it’s gone on so long is that most people don’t have a clue what’s being paid for by taxpayer dollars,” Pogge said.
The press conference was held by a group called Virginia Christian Action. Its members presented a petition calling on Gov. Bob McDonnell, Lt. Gov. Bill Bolling and Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli to stop funding for Planned Parenthood. All three top officials are Republican.
The petition was signed by a number of prominent Christian leaders, including the Rev. Jonathan Falwell of Lynchburg and the Rev. Pat Robertson of Virginia Beach.
McDonnell has publicly supported calls to cut off funding for Planned Parenthood. His predecessor, Democrat Tim Kaine, supported funding for Planned Parenthood.
“Looking at it from a cultural, historical perspective, this organization should be called ‘Planned Barrenhood’ because they have nothing to do with families, they have nothing to do with responsibility,” Marshall said.
Nelson suggested that the organization be called “Klan Parenthood,” saying that the group’s founder, Margaret Sanger, made racist comments in the 1930s and that the organization has shown a “willingness to take donations from people who are racist.”
According to Marshall, Planned Parenthood receives “about $500,000 a year” from the state.
But Jessica Honke, director of public policy for Planned Parenthood Advocates of Virginia, said the only state funding Planned Parenthood receives is from Medicaid reimbursements. That amount was about $35,000 in the 2009 fiscal year, according to the Department of Medical Assistance Services.
Planned Parenthood provides a wide range of gynecological and other health services, from cancer screening and HIV prevention to birth control for low-income women. Honke pointed out that abortions represent a minority of the group’s services.
At the press conference, the Rev. Joe Ellison, vice president of the Council on Biblical Principles, said that when he was in college, he paid for girlfriends to get abortions. He said he still feels guilty about that today.
Ellison said he was “declaring war against Planned Parenthood.”
“We’re asking pastors to shut them down in the community. We’re asking pastors to pray them out. And we’re asking Planned Parenthood to leave our children alone,” Ellison said.
In 2008, the Senate approved a budget amendment to eliminate funding for Planned Parenthood. However, that proposal was not included in the final state budget.
Copyright 2010 The Gainesville Times. All rights reserved.
I don’t support funding Planned Parenthood, but I also don’t support paying for the surgical removal of Marshall’s foot from his mouth.
Children are a blessing regardless of disability, not a curse.
Slow-LOL!! That’s the way to kick the thread off. 🙂
Does Delegate Marshall even realize that Planned Parenthood does NOT just deal with abortions? And not ALL of PP’s facilities perform abortions?
Is there a youtube clip of this like the infamous “Love Canal” Morning After Pill clip?
I’d like to what percentage of disabled kids are born from the mother having an abortion prior to the birth of the disabled? What types of disablities fit BM’s definition.
I’m so glad I do NOT live in the 13th District!
I read the article and I can’t find the “Disabled kids are God’s punishment” comment. Was it not in the article? The direct quotes are confusing to say the least.
There’s a petition (below) asking for an apology and resignation… I would prefer a stronger remedy.
http://www.petitiononline.com/disable1/petition.html
They pulled it off the News & Messenger Web site. Here’s the link to MSNBC:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35524820
Delegate Bob Marshall just issued a press release: http://delegatebob.com/news/statement-on-recent-news-story-by-capital-news-service
Now I understand why my neighbor, a member of the Democratic Committee, is walking around his yard saying, “Thank you, Lord; Thank you, Lord; Thank you, Lord…”
Dear God, I didn’t realize it was Marshall. Marshall again?! I had heard about this but was trying to ignore it. I thought it was just some crackpot people were pointing to in order to embarrass whatever organization he belongs to. I had no idea it was my own Delegate. It’s pretty amazing when the insanity and stupidity of someone’s words travels around the world and back again before you realize that he said it as your elected representative.
Listen to the audio here:
http://blog.vcu.edu/cns/2010/02/delegate-disabled-kids-are-gods-punishment.html
Shame on Bob Marshall for telling flat out lies. Shame on Marshall for having the affrontery to feel he can speak for God.
The Planned Parenthood fees are for medicaid reimbursements for health screenings, birth control, pap tests, etc. NOT FOR ABORTION. Not every PP clinic is an abortion provider.
Thanks Cindy for providing all those links.
How on earth does anyone who feels abortion is wrong suggest that we cut down on preventative birth control?
Ask Judie Brown of American Life League. Bob Marshall’s roots go to this organization.
They do not believe in birth control.
http://www.all.org/
Fine. but in my world, birth control is a good thing.
I wonder why the News and Messenger yanked it? Did they find Marshall’s statements in such poor taste that they didn’t want to offend their readership further by having his words on their website? I saw the article and then – poof – it was gone. Sorry to say the same thing couldn’t be said for Marshall. He’s an embarrasment to our district and a gift that unfortunately keeps on giving.
As a mother of two children with disabilities, I am enraged. HOW DARE HE??? Does he believe I’ve had an abortion? Does he believe my children are a “punishment”? How can he imply ANY child is a punishment? What happened to “respecting life”? How much respect do his words imply?
Go to hell, Bob.
It’s just such an ugly hateful thing to say. I’m so disappointed.
So, let me get this straight. He says disabled children are a curse, curse meaning an obvious negative, YET, he would deny a woman the right to terminate a pregnancy based on a “curse” in his mind. What exactly IS he saying?
Furthermore, I dare him to produce the accepted research that backs up his “thesis” about abortion being the cause of the high rates of disabilities. He finally did it this time, trying to use G-d as his bully pulpit, he shoved his foot in his mouth so far there is no dislodging it!
He is a nipple head! PERIOD. I have a several friends that have a children with disablities and there are just NO words that describe how HURTFUL his statement was and I find myself speechless…can you believe that?
Perhaps he thought that it wouldn’t get beyond this particular audience. But that just goes to show how little respect he has for his audience. I wonder if any of them actually agreed with this. The whole thing just turns my stomach. Why do people keep voting for this embarrassment of a man?
He was ugly to me until you brought that image up.
From Bob Marshall:
“In the Old Testament, the first born of every being, animal and man, was dedicated to the Lord. There’s a special punishment Christians would suggest.”
How can you misconstrue this statement? You can’t.
Disgusting. His words were simply disgusting.
Capital News Service has also changed their headline to “Legislator Regrets ‘Poorly Chosen Words.'”
There is no link between abortion and birth defects in the real medical world. He cannot back up his assertions because they don’t exist in mainstream medical papers.
Those who really want to prevent abortion will do all they can to ensure that unintended or unwanted pregnancy doesn’t happen. Ask Mr. Marshall if he will do that. He might agree to the rhythm method or abstinence. Nothing more.
Maybe they changed the entire story. I changed our title of this thread. It was nasty sounding and offensive to most people on so many different levels.
Sorry Slow, It was the only thing that came to mind….DH, nipple head..I try not to discriminate..LOL!!! And I try not to name call but….dang! 🙂
From his website:
Statement on Recent News story by Capital News Service
MANASSAS, VA – A story by Capital News Service regarding my remarks at a recent press conference opposing taxpayer funding for Planned Parenthood conveyed the impression that I believe disabled children are a punishment for prior abortions. No one who knows me or my record would imagine that I believe or intended to communicate such an offensive notion. I have devoted a generation of work to defending disabled and unwanted children, and have always maintained that they are special blessings to their parents. Nevertheless, I regret any misimpression my poorly chosen words may have created as to my deep commitment to fighting for these vulnerable children and their families.
Sincerely,
Delegate Bob Marshall
State Delegate, 13th District
Prince William County, Loudoun County
For inquiries please contact spokesman Robert Maistros, rmaistros[at]aol.com, 703-728-1648
And it’s back on the News & Messenger site as a fresh story with a new headline:
Local Critics bash Marshall’s ‘poorly chosen’ words
http://www2.insidenova.com/isn/news/local/article/del._marshall_disabled_children_are_gods_punishment_for_abortions/52716/
How can Bob Marshall say that he didn’t believe disabled children were a punishment for prior abortions, when in the audio he says: “Because when you abort the first born of any, nature takes its vengeance on the subsequent children.” and “There’s a special punishment Christians would suggest.”?
I don’t get this guy; there is no real explanation for what he said unless he truly believes that stuff. It’s pretty far from a slip of the tongue. What other impressions were the masses supposed to get from his statements? Is he saying that the transcript and audio of his press conference have been falsified? I would love to see a video of the conference if anyone has it.
Bob marshal Part 2: From love canals to the haunted river…and I agree with DG, that “It’s pretty far from a slip of the tongue”
@Posting As Pinko
>>> How can he imply ANY child is a punishment? What happened to “respecting life”? How much respect do his words imply?
At a campaign rally, March 2008, Presidential candidate Obama was talking about his two daughters…
“I am going to teach them first of all about values and morals. But if they make a mistake, I don’t want them punished with a baby,” Obama said.
More back pedalling.
http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/02/virginia-state-delegate-i-dont-believe-that-disabled-kids-are-gods-punishments-period.php
Is there a doctor in the house? Because I really want to know where he gets his medical facts. Wouldn’t they apply to women who have miscarriages (spontaneous abortions) followed by D&Cs? Same emptying of the womb. I’ve never heard of this risk for low birth weight, premature or disabled children after such procedures.
Idiots….this is so wrong it doesn’t deserve my time…but I can’t let such lunacy go unanswered… I’m a Christian, so Christians in the Republican Party….LISTEN UP!!!!…
Bob Marshall you need to go read the Bible a little closer…No-where in it, can I find a single scripture that says “God says disabled children are Gods punishment to women who had an abortion…” This is what drives me unbelieveably angry at the Republican Party, almost as angry as I am at the Democratic party, for such blatant ignorance in how parties get their most incredibly stupid people elected…to follow the most incredibly stupid political agendas of greed, ethnic racism, religious oppression, and party hatred of humans being human…
This is why we are going to have a religious war someday, and this is why religious people who are running the Republican party are so dangerously undermining Democracy and replacing it with Religious autocracy…idiots, idiots, idiots…
Along this same theme…I owe an answer to Wolverine whose comments and intellect I highly respect, in this otherwise wayward group of bloggers from both the left and the right extremes…
W.
Michael —Just out of curiosity, how would you handle this one? One of my second cousins on my mother’s side just died a couple of years ago. I found out that he was a lifetime Free Mason and a very active one. He was also a lifetime member of an evangelical Baptist church and a very devout member at that. Moreover, before he retired he was a high-level executive in a major oil company. How would this guy fit into your theory?
Bob Marshall is just one example of a evangelical extremist, but an example of one who has mixed church and state and can’t tell the difference, along with many who attend the tea party…
Your cousin fits this way…It is possible to be a free-mason, a man of good character (unlike Bob Marshall), and be an evangelical Christian. Mason’s believe in seperation of church and state…Mason’s believe in religious tolerance and Mason’s can be religious people (most are and were). The difference between a Liberator Christian (which I am), and Bob Marshall (who is an idiot and dangerous Obligation Keeper Christian), is that Obligation Keepers, want the Levitican Law of the old testament, imposed on modern people by use of goverment, the Republican Party and tea party platform as a religious oppression mechanism, full of religious hatred and anger at all things not religious, just like the chirch has always done historically when led by extremist popes, criminals, and greedy politicians posing as church diocese. They are kind of like Muslim extremists, who use the party platform of their own country to oppress the religious freedom and religious tolerance needs of the people and want the law of Mohammad (also derived from levitican old testament law), imposed on modern people…using political force, and death if necessary….
Both of these institutions (most obligation keepers are Catholics, but not all, many are charasmatic and evangelical protestants) are oppressive in history. Historically, the Free Masons saw the results of that oppression and the impact it had on wealth and liberty, and happiness, and so mandated that Mason ideology would follow the Democratic concepts of the Greeks, tolerate religious freedoms and religious differences as long as NO RELIGION had control of the government and political control over the rights of individuals to choose for themselves, the pursuit of life, liberty and freedom, all of which are basic and fundamental principles on which this country was founded and for which we fought a revolutionary war to free ourselves from (British, Catholic, Church of England OPPRESSION).
Free Masons are also free market advocates, believe that commoners (the people) have a right to start business, do not have the right to wealth as a function of privilige by race or ethnicity, or sex, or royal birth, and can invest in banking and trade that makes the merchant as wealthy as the royaly, by abolishing slavery and serfdom, which monarchies, class, and cast systems politically created, protected by law, and imposed as oppressive political systems on others. The Democracy of the Free Masons abolished such oppressive states and oppressive religious laws in the forming of this nation. (Think of our return to priviliged, 8a, protected class political systems that give privilige by race and ethnicity and sex, and Hindu class structures that keep people oppressed and poor as slaves and serfs by birth)…
So your cousin could be all of these, believe in God, seperate church and state, and advocate for free market…and not ever be close to the modern day tea party Republican obligation keeping evangelistic political animal that wants to punish women for having abortions, even when not one word of abortion is mentioned in one word of scripture as a sin specifically identified by God as one that would prevent you from getting into heaven…
Only idiots and people who will be punished by God later for misunderstanding God’s word will be punished for hurting people and keeping people living in oppressive misery, because they cannot separate their personal relationship with God (if they even have one), from the fear and hatred they have of other’s political views and morals, which may be decided by God on a case by case basis to be very different for each according to his individual needs and circumstances….
A liberator Christian understands these permissions and these rights, and fundamental concepts of Democracy, as an individual right and permission that comes directly from personal conversation with God and only from God’s personal answer, not from the government…or the Republican party….or the people attending a tea party… A Liberator Christian is a Liberator of oppressive states through the concept of individual rights and democracy.
This country is going to hell until somebody learns to pay attention to want is scripture and what is not, what is freedom and what is not and what is Democracy and what is not…
The Masons had it right…Republicans and Democrats represent the extreme socialist, racist, oppressive views, and have it all wrong…that makes them both extremely dangerous to Democracy…
@Diversity Gal
I agree. While his foot is in his mouth, I’d add heaping helping of jalapeno peppers and tabasco sauce.
And tolerant religious care for all individuals each according to their need…
Tell me Christians, or those of you who think you are Christian…which concept is more Christ-like? Liberation from oppression or obligation keeping of levitican law?
Ring, his children are …children. What parent would allow his children to have children at such a young age.
We aren’t talking about President Obama. Again, deflection. You can’t think of anything to say about Marshall’s really ill chosen words so you run over and take a swipe at Obama. your right but I am going to call attention to it.
And I do believe children having children is punishment to everyone.
Unlike Mr. Marshall, however, Mr. Obama believes in birth control.
Cindy, you haven’t seen it because it doesn’t exist. Bob Marshall is full of crap. He has been dragging that tired old information around for 20 years like he just discovered it. It was BS then and it is BS now.
While everyone has hysterics over his words, lets look at what is really happening….In the past 10 years Planned Parenthood has received about $40 K a year on average for services. These services are medicaid payments for birth control and other health care services. It has nothing to do with abortion. In fact PP probably prevented unwanted pregnancies.
Remember our license plate from last week. Well this is assault number #2 on this organization. Pardon me, but if unwanted pregnancy is prevented, it seems to me that we cut our costs and cut down on the number of abortions performed.
But if you are a good culture warrior, none of this matters. Take up a sword against poor women.
I soooo don’t like the attitude that all unfortunate life events involving whatever people who have different beliefs than you are punishments for their sin. I’m sure that some people really believe that disabilities are God’s punishment for abortions, just like I have heard crap about the Haitian earthquake and Hurricane Katrina being punishment for sinful living or religious beliefs. And then there are the lovely people who like to believe that AIDS is a punishment for homosexuality…I once had a roommate tell me that quite seriously right after a hemophiliac buddy of mine died of AIDS.
This kind of thing gets me really pissed off.
Michael, no one here is required to reveal their religion. That just isn’t part of the secret hand-shake.
@Moon-howler
There’s no attempt at ‘deflection’ on my part, and I already expressed my opinion on Marshall’s words in post #32. I was merely pointing out that Marshall isn’t the only politician that opined that having a baby or a child is “punishment”.
Pot. Kettle. Black.
Personally, even though I like Marshall, I believe that he should get some serious HEAT for this. It was a truly STUPID thing to say. If that’s not enough for you, sorry.
You can call me out you like. But I’d wish you’d call it correctly. You’re not a good umpire.
Totally agree, DG.
Let me also say that I am beginning not to like this attitude I feel creeping into our culture that real women have disabled children. That is still a matter of choice.
I will step right up to the white line. Depending on the circumstances and the disability, I would certainly consider abortion a morally appropriate choice if I found myself in that sad circumstance. And I say that without apology. It is between me, my husband and my Maker.
Ring, I was going by the words I saw. At the time, I posted we crossed in the mail. I think his words were stupid also. However, you did deflect. if we are talking about Marshall, who really cares what Obama, Bush, or anyone else said.
I actually knew exactly what Obama meant. But then again, read the above post. This is one topic I am very blunt about. And pleases read the above post, I am speaking ONLY for myself and not for anti.
@Moon-howler
>>> However, you did deflect. if we are talking about Marshall, who really cares what Obama, Bush, or anyone else said.
No I didn’t. But I’d be willing to declare an impasse for lack of interest in carrying this on. 😉
Michael,
“Tell me Christians, or those of you who think you are Christian…which concept is more Christ-like? Liberation from oppression or obligation keeping of levitican law?”
My PERSONAL belief:
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” -Ephesians 2:8,9 (all quotations will be taken from the KJV)
Lest ANY man/woman) and that includes people thinking they know what God’s punishment is.
Romans 12:19 (King James Version)
19Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord
He didn’t get specific with His vengeance on anything specific but sin in general. Romans 6:23 ( we are ALL born of a sinful nature )
Another chapter of scripture comes to mind about JUDGMENT and explains that we are not to judge (even those that do not believe the same thing another person may believe)
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+7&version=NIV
He leaves it up to us whether to choose to believe or not= Romans 3:23 & John 3:16.
Again, this is my personal belief 🙂
@RingDangDoo
RDD, I find that equally as offensive. I don’t give a damn WHO says things like that. Don’t tell me kids are “punishment.”
Until this, I actually still had some respect for Marshall. Even when I disagreed with his positions, I thought he was smart and worthy of office. This incident tells me otherwise.
I think that perhaps Bob Marshall is “God’s punishment” on the rest of us. I always find it interesting that men in power spend a disproportionate amount of time looking for ways to implement laws that control women, their lives, and their choices. It’s time for more women in Richmond!
Opinion, are you applying for sainthood? Three cheers for Opinion. I agree.
I’ll 4th cheer! 🙂
Well, let’s see how it works….Biden, Grayson, all the lefties can “mis-speak” 24/7 and get pretty light treatment, especially after they apologize. Let’s see if the lefties cut him the same slack, or if they perpetuate the partisanship they like to cry about so much.
“blush”
It’s cool to make fun of Palin’s disabled kids, though, am I right on that? We’re gonna cut those folks some slack, right? I’ll admit that Marshall crammed his foot right down his throat, but reading these reactions….I remember why I can never, ever cut a lefty even an inch of slack. That’s how the game is played, boys and girls!