Another article people have to read for themselves appears below, therefore it is posted in its entirety. We are not going to comment from the post. All 3 moderators do not agree on the topic of abortion. Therefore, we will not comment from the post.
UPDATE: Thread titled changed. I just found that too offensive to have sitting there on this blog.
From The Gainesville Times:
Lawmaker: Disabled kids are god’s punishment
February 22, 2010 – 11:27am
RICHMOND – Western Prince William Del. Bob Marshall, R-13th, says disabled children are God’s punishment to women who have aborted their first pregnancy.
He made that statement last Thursday at a press conference to oppose state funding for Planned Parenthood.
“The number of children who are born subsequent to a first abortion with handicaps has increased dramatically. Why? Because when you abort the first born of any, nature takes its vengeance on the subsequent children,” said Marshall, a Republican.
“In the Old Testament, the first born of every being, animal and man, was dedicated to the Lord. There’s a special punishment Christians would suggest.”
Marshall was among more than 20 people, mostly Christian pastors and clergy, who gathered for the press conference in the General Assembly Building.
They called on Virginia officials to eliminate state funding for Planned Parenthood because the organization provides abortions.
“We are gathered this afternoon to draw attention to the unethical, immoral and racist practices of the largest abortion provider in America,” said Dean Nelson, executive director of the Network of Politically Active Christians.
Delegate Brenda Pogge, R-Williamsburg, has joined Marshall in co-sponsoring a budget amendment to eliminate state funding for Planned Parenthood.
“I think that the reason it’s gone on so long is that most people don’t have a clue what’s being paid for by taxpayer dollars,” Pogge said.
The press conference was held by a group called Virginia Christian Action. Its members presented a petition calling on Gov. Bob McDonnell, Lt. Gov. Bill Bolling and Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli to stop funding for Planned Parenthood. All three top officials are Republican.
The petition was signed by a number of prominent Christian leaders, including the Rev. Jonathan Falwell of Lynchburg and the Rev. Pat Robertson of Virginia Beach.
McDonnell has publicly supported calls to cut off funding for Planned Parenthood. His predecessor, Democrat Tim Kaine, supported funding for Planned Parenthood.
“Looking at it from a cultural, historical perspective, this organization should be called ‘Planned Barrenhood’ because they have nothing to do with families, they have nothing to do with responsibility,” Marshall said.
Nelson suggested that the organization be called “Klan Parenthood,” saying that the group’s founder, Margaret Sanger, made racist comments in the 1930s and that the organization has shown a “willingness to take donations from people who are racist.”
According to Marshall, Planned Parenthood receives “about $500,000 a year” from the state.
But Jessica Honke, director of public policy for Planned Parenthood Advocates of Virginia, said the only state funding Planned Parenthood receives is from Medicaid reimbursements. That amount was about $35,000 in the 2009 fiscal year, according to the Department of Medical Assistance Services.
Planned Parenthood provides a wide range of gynecological and other health services, from cancer screening and HIV prevention to birth control for low-income women. Honke pointed out that abortions represent a minority of the group’s services.
At the press conference, the Rev. Joe Ellison, vice president of the Council on Biblical Principles, said that when he was in college, he paid for girlfriends to get abortions. He said he still feels guilty about that today.
Ellison said he was “declaring war against Planned Parenthood.”
“We’re asking pastors to shut them down in the community. We’re asking pastors to pray them out. And we’re asking Planned Parenthood to leave our children alone,” Ellison said.
In 2008, the Senate approved a budget amendment to eliminate funding for Planned Parenthood. However, that proposal was not included in the final state budget.
Copyright 2010 The Gainesville Times. All rights reserved.
No one misunderstood your “poorly chosen” words Bob. You were more than implying that women who have abortions are punished by G-d by bearing disabled children. I am not stupid and neither is anyone else who HEARD your words. It wasn’t misinterepreted, you said what you said. Your hope was to instill your bogus righteous fear into the populace about YOUR angry punishing G-d to women who have been faced with the most difficult choice they will probably ever have to make.
“mis-speak”… that’s how the right plans to try and get a pass on this one? I don’t think so.
Slowpoke, who here said it was OK to make fun of Palin’s child?
No one here has made fun of Palin’s child and had they we would have taken down the comment if we saw it. I do hope you weren’t referring to anyone here.
There are all sorts of crappy comments behind the scenes that you all never see.
Apology accepted.
Slow, There are just somethings you don’t speak ill of and that is children. What happens in our society when a mother or father does something like that? It usually leaves scars that they carry thru out the years trying to deal with it. Now look at it from the perspective of a parent that has done everything right ( so to speak, no abortion) and how they have that haunt for the rest of of IF….should I have, could I have, done something (even before BOB)…while loving them and realizing it wasn’t a flaw, it was a gift and see that their life is full of importance BEYOND imagine and then have Bob’s mouth shout doubt and that it’s a punishment. He’s a nipple head…He;s not sorry ( just like a lot of them that have to apologize, he just retracted…name of the game in bs politics)
How come Del. Marshall, the champion of less government and individual freedom, keeps trying to expand government regulations? Below is a quote from the Potomac News website.
“And a third Marshall amendment directs the State Board of Health to develop a regulatory program for outpatient surgical centers and physicians offices that perform 25 or more abortions per year”
Why is government run and mandated health care so bad to Del. Marshall, yet, he wants to regulate a specific part of health care? Why does he get to choose which part of health care to regulate and isn’t this mandated reporting, they type of mandate he fights against in his other bills?
He speaks out of both sides of his mouth.
And so it shall be with libs for eternity. Never an inch of slack.
Folks here are not the only folks on earth, and I know….NOBODY knows what I’m talking about, right? Puh-lease….
Excellent point Lucky! Funny how hypocrisy works isn’t it?
Slow,
No one on anti has EVER made fun of Sara Palins child. Did you see Kathleen Parkers op-ed on that very issue. It was pretty interesting.
While the word ‘punish’ is so fresh on everyone’s mind, let’s go back in time to that other world that Glenn Beck longs for. Remember 60’s lady? She wasn’t kidding.
I actually came of age (read age where pregnancy is possible) before Roe V Wade became the law of the land. I think many people here are just a little too young to remember. You darn right having to have a baby was your punishment. And when you had it you got to give it up for adoption without even holding it. Middle and upper class girls were not allowed to have children out of wedlock and keep them unless they lived in a very bohemian family.
Sometimes real brave girls ran away and got married. Usually they went out of state. That was so they weren’t punished by having to have a baby and give it up for adoption. That was the feeling back then. You were punished for having sex. By whom? Society. It was a tough world out there then.
So everyone can get over Obama who was raised by his grandparents. I know exactly what he was saying.
Things like that were real hush hush. The girls got sent out of town to live with an aunt or something. We all heard stories. The girls got bad reputations and the boys were kept away from everyone’s daughter. Much has changed in what is basically a generation.
My husband has 2 aunts who stopped speaking in their late teens and never spoke again for the rest of their lives over this very issue. How sad.
Bring on Bob Marshall who apparently thinks he speaks for God. Yea right Bob.
Excellent points, Lucky Duck. This is what Marshall is all about. It always has been. Less government unless it is in people’s bedrooms.
Michael — We may be very similar in some ways. What you say of your own religious beliefs leads me to believe that, either by design or happenstance, you are linked in some ways to the theories of Prof. A.H. Francke, director of the collegia biblica at Leipzig and later vicar and professor of oriental languages at the University of Halle in the 1690’s. His views were called “pietism.” The essence of it was a disdain for the superficial trappings of religion; a devotion to the practice of godliness; personal devotion; attention to the problems of Christian life and to the grievances of all classes of society,charity,and foreign missions. Faith, according to Francke, was not just to be possessed but also to have a lively effect on the life of the individual and the congregation. For his troubles, Francke was forced to leave Leipzig and take refuge at the more liberal university in Halle. Nevertheless, his views spread like wild fire throughout the 18th century, all through Europe and as far as India and North America.
Now, what I know about the Free Masons could fill a thimble; but it does sound to me like that pietist philosophy might have been a key or similar thought in the minds of our founders like Washington and Mason. I agree that they were bound and determined to keep this country from devolving into any kind of theocracy, using their knowledge of the history of the Anglican church in Britain and the colonies, the Catholic Church, and many of the Protestant churches in Europe, as well as the first-hand example of what happened in Massachusetts under the Puritan system. You get no argument from me there. I am a Christian believer who does not want to see an earthly theocracy in any way, shape, or form. Moreover, like old Prof. Francke, I do not fit very well with the “superficial trappings of religion” or the authority of religious hierarchies.
No doubt others here are asking what this has to do with Bob Marshall. So, let me explain. As I have stated elsewhere, I am a genealogist and a family historian. I am also someone who came out of a very fundamentalist Protestant faith and have been married to a Roman Catholic for over 40 years. Our marriage has survived because we rejoice in the very similar basic beliefs found in both our faiths and because we tend not to allow the technical, earthly differences to get between us. Part of that required me to compromise and allow all my children to be raised as Catholics. Doesn’t bother me one bit, because I see in them a love of God and a devotion to honesty, integrity, and compassion which is demanded by their faith and mine.
What really does disturb both myself and my spouse is a tendency on the blogs and elsewhere to castigate devout Christian believers as some sort of transgressors against constitutional liberty who would jump at the chance to impose a theocracy on this country. Michael himself used the term “Christian Reich” — something that did not sit very well with either of us. Michael, I can tell you that, through both personal association and historical study, I have had extensive contact and reflection on a huge variety of faiths in this country. That includes Catholic, Mormon,, Reformed, Christian Reformed, Presbyterian, Methodist, Baptist, Southern Baptist, Assemblies of God, Christian and Missionary Alliance, Evangelical Lutheran, Evangelical Free Church, Lutheran (Missouri Synod), Greek Orthodox, etc. That’s only a partial list. I can honestly state that I have never met an American member or clergyman in any of these faiths who is an advocate of imposing a theocracy on this country. No one around here is in danger of having their hands tied behind their backs and being frog-marched to an altar and made to swear allegiance to a denomination or faith or even to God himself. In my view, an awfully lot of people in this country are wrongly postulating against ghosts which do not exist. Perhaps you might come upon the odd case of an extremist who advocates the re-emergence of the era of the Inquisitor and may even take unlawful actions in pursuit of it, but I do not think you will find much sympathy or acceptance of such views anywhere. I haven’t. And perhaps you will respond with outraged wrath at statements made at times by a Pat Robertson or a Bob Marshall. So be it. We’re all human, We all occasionally say the wrong thing at the wrong time and wind up having to apologize. Marshall did it. Who else lately? Oh, yes, Charlie Schummer called an air hostess a “bitch” — and apologized. The list is long.
Does this hostility to fundamentalist and evangelical Protestants and to the conservative Catholic Church not really come from a basic clash of opinions on certain moral issues of the day, principally abortion and homosexuality? Many Christians oppose these things because their faith tells them to do so. They do not wish to try to be faithful to their religion and compromise on that religion in the public forum at the same time. They voice their beliefs and hope that someone will listen and have a change of heart. If you listen closely, they do not really believe that they have the earthly right or the power to punish. Look again at those Biblical quotes posted by Red Dawn. The Christians I know and have known mostly wish to convince and warn because they know that it is God alone who has the right to “vengeance.” They do not want anyone to have to suffer that “vengeance.”
Unfortunately in their view, the country does not seem to be listening, and the moral positions are sliding ever more toward the opposites. It is pulling them in as well, to the point where their tax monies are being used to support what they consider to be sins against their God. Hence Bob Marshall against Planned Parenthood. Hence the recent decision of the Archbishop of Washington to withdraw Catholic foster care and adoption services from Washington D.C. over the issue of homosexual adoptions and threats by the RC Council of Bishops to close Catholic hospitals and clinics if the personnel in them are obliged by Federal authority to perform abortions. It is not so much that they have been unable to have their way with regard to society in general but that they are also being dragged in to participate against their will in something which they consider to be immoral. What would you expect them to do? They believe in the Final Judgement. They do not want to have to stand before their Maker and say that, when the time of trial came, I shrugged my shoulders, said nothing, and went along with the flow because otherwise I might have been called names and castigated by my fellow citizens.
Look, I’m not advocating a particular position here. I am just trying to explain what I see personally as the feelings behind actions. When it comes to criticism of the likes of Bob Marshall or Pat Robertson or the late Jerry Falwell, I think we are forgetting something very important here. Michael is very right in pointing out the desire of the Founding Fathers to separate church and state. However, take another look at the Bill of Rights — “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech…” The Constitution in all its clauses and subsequent amendments nowhere makes a statement that these rights apply only to certain citizens among us. It allows every last one of us, no matter the nature of our cause, to petition our government on issues which concern us and to seek to use the electoral and legislative systems to implement our beliefs. This applies whether you seek to outlaw abortion or to implement measures against global warming. And, in the end, the Founders, along with Chief Justice John Marshall, gave us the final referee in the matter: a Federal court system with the power to look at our proposals and at the Constitution and to say “yea” or “nay.” Finally, you also have rights. You have the right not to listen, you have the right to oppose in the public forum, you have the right to petition your government in the direction of your own views, and you have the right to seek redress in the court system. In effect, the Constitution is one big playing field on which we all have an equal right to play.
So you tell me. Why is it that many in this country seem to believe it is o.k. to tell Christian believers to shut up and go sit in the corner with your faith-based views and not dare to participate in the public forum or to try to sway opinion and seek legislative action? Are you not telling them then that they do not have the same political right of advocacy that you do under our Constitution? If you are a supporter of a public health care option, for instance, would you be happy to hear me tell you to shut up and go sit in a corner with your liberal views and stay out of the public forum? There are some who do that and use ideological allegations against you in the process, and I know darned well that you do not like it one bit.
Excuse me for going so long on this. But I for one am getting tired of being called some sort of Far Right Christian wingnut who should shut up and not advocate and pursue my beliefs in the public forum in the prescribed legal manner. That Constitution is mine as well as yours, and no one is going to cut me out of the deal. If my persuasive powers prove not to be enough, so be it. The Constitution wins every time whichever way the ultimate decision goes, and I accept that fully and freely. But I also believe personally that I have a superior authority to whom I will have to answer eventually. That’s just me. You are entirely free to make your own choices. The raison d’etre of the American system, I would say.
Well said, Wolverine. And you make a very valid point, albeit fairly opposite mine, I believe that churches have every right in the world to lay out the behavior for their members. That is their job, in fact. However, I draw the line at making laws that I must abide by that are based on someone else’s religion.
We (the admins) have had to balance thoughts, views and words on this blog and it has not been easy. Our make up is Jewish, fundamentalist Christian and mainstream Christian or whatever you call those Christians who don’t have a lot of rules. 😉 It is not always easy to be respectful of others and I know I have offended over things it would have never occurred to me were offensive to others, and vice versa.
It would never occur to me either to pursue my beliefs in the public forum. I don’t think they belong there. I expect that is where the collision comes from. I try to be respectful of other people’s religion.
I am not going to let Bob Marshall off the hook. He knew what he said. I don’t think he has a problem with the disabled. I just think he chose his words wrong. However, I do think he meant every word about God punishing women who have had abortions. That, to me, is equally offensive as a woman and as a Christian.
If there’s one thing I can say about Dr. Love Canals, at least he’s consistent.
Ya’ll are being kind on the home town blog. The rest of the world is laughing at and/or savaging the man.
Online Petition calling for Marshall to apologize
Luckily, y’all have Oblamo and Biden heading your team up, so I only have to wait a few hours/days for your side to say something really stupid. And when they do, the attacks must be relentless, for reasons now obvious.
Holy Crap! The dreaded online petition!
Other online petitions of particular interest:
Bring back the Afro
Request for Gloria Estefan to Tour Again
Remove Keith Olbermann from Sunday Night Football (got in on that action myself)
and, of course,
We Want the Funk!!
@Moon-howler
“You darn right having to have a baby was your punishment. And when you had it you got to give it up for adoption without even holding it. Middle and upper class girls were not allowed to have children out of wedlock and keep them unless they lived in a very bohemian family.”
The thing is, that was SOCIETY’S punishment, not God’s. And it wasn’t the child him/herself that was punishing. It was adults who were often idiots.
Seems to me Bob wants to punish women and children and let God take the blame.
The only petition that really counts is the opinion we render at the ballot box. Everything else is interesting; however, it’s the vote count that… well… counts.
I signed the petition, even if only to make a point. I know it won’t get him thrown out of office.
You know, Bob Marshall has “a way with words.” He is the author of the “Health Care Freedom” act floating around the Viriginia Legislature. The short story is this act gives Uninsured Virginians “Freedom” from “Health Care” coverage… just like he would like to give Women “Freedom” from that pesky right to make their own medical decisions.
In 2007, 17% of the women in Virginia were uninsured (census bureau data) and the number is probably higher today because of the economy and unemployment. When are women going to get fed up with this crap and change things?
The simple fact this initiative is recognized as Unconstitutional and uninforcable doesn’t appear to deter its supporters… they appear to prefer to spend time on things such as this vice working on our budget crisis.
I’m tired of him concentrating on federal issues. I’m also tired of this “State’s Rights” thing. We’re going to lose Federal funding if he keeps this up.
Like I said before, I really used to respect the man, even with his quirks. But his quirks have really gotten in the way lately.
You can send a message by donating $13 to the Prince William Democrats in our continuing effort to change our representation in Richmond. We will not give up!
Bob Marshall is an embarassment to Prince William and Virginia. Please donate $13 to the the PW Dems to help us unseat this anti everything person.
http://bit.ly/cBz5iR << This is ourt ActBlue Page!
bruce roemmelt, PWC Dems Vice Chair
Pinko, you must be fairly new to Virginia if you used to respect the man.
Slow…be afraid…very afraid….of the dreaded petition. And that petition is dreaded. A contributor tried several times to post it and it wouldn’t stick. I had to go in behind the scenes to post that bad boy. Do you think it is a poltergeist?
Hi Bruce, welcome. We are glad you are here. I didn’t realize you were second in command.
I’m an INDEPENDENT, but I love the idea of the $13 donation to PWC Dems. I love a good laugh.
Bruce, I hope the Loudoun Dems are doing the same.
I’m a Republican and not a fan of Planned Parenthood. However, I’m also a Lay Minister in one of the mainstream Protestant denominations. Marshall’s remarks are disgusting. No one in our faith community would imply that children in any way are a punishment for anything their parents might do. I know many Catholics also and have no doubt that their views are much more similar to mine than to Del. Marshall’s.
Pat Robertson is psychotic and needs to be institutionalized. I hope Bob Marshall is not becoming that bad also.
Sensible, intelligent Republicans have a great opportunity to do well next fall and put this country back on a sane, mainstream course. However, if we have as many nutty rightwingers as the Obama adminstration has nutty leftwingers that won’t happen.
We need to focus on the economy, jobs, etc. and practice religious tolerance as did our Founding Fathers (and mothers – read Cokie Roberts’ and Kay Bailey Hutchison’s books on our Founding Mothers). Washington, Franklin, Jefferson and the rest did not advocate the sort of extreme religious nonsense going on from the right or the big government nonsense coming from the left.
Top off all of this with the idiotic things Corey Stewart has been doing locally. Have the Republicans lost their minds by not getting behind solid, moderate candidates, and are they getting ready to blow their opportunity to have a another chance at governance this fall?
Fear not, Need to Know, Corey will muster up another illegal immigration crisis to get elected. I wonder how he feels about that 30k he spent on invitations to his side show now? I guess he had money to burn then. It amounted to a drop in the bucket back then. How many senior rides would that money buy today?
All sarcasm aside, share with me please, what you have against Planned Parenthood. I have always respected the organization because of its efforts to prevent unplanned, unwanted pregnancy. Acdcessible birth control is critical, as I see it.
Moon, I am pro-life except when a doctor deems the pregnancy a threat to the mother’s health and perhaps a few other narrowly-defined situations. I realize that Planned Parenthood does many things other than abortions but they are in that business and don’t place the sort of restrictions on it that I would like to see. Also, read the history of Planned Parenthood. Its origins lie in racism and eugenics.
To be consistent, I’m also against the death penalty, which would put me on the outs with with many of my Republican friends. Pro-life but anti-capital punishment? I don’t know how that would be received.
Corey short on money? Have you checked http://www.vpap.org lately? The developers are filling his coffers.
Thanks for that explanation. Do you have a problem with PP providing contraceptive services and other health screenings?
Many organizations have origins that we probably wouldn’t think much of today. I can’t think of an example off the top of my head.
I think there are others out there who are pro life anti death penalty. Emma is in most cases. I think this Powell case probably nudged her a bit in my direction. I support the death penalty, more so now DNA testing is more available and reliable.
I don’t have a problem with anyone providing contraceptive services and other sorts of health screenings. I also side with Nancy Reagan on stem cell research.
My opposition to the death penalty is not based on thinking it’s never justified. Powell is the poster child for capital punishment and if anyone deserves it, it’s him. However, even with DNA testing we can never be absolutely sure. What if an innocent person’s DNA gets mixed with a that of a guilty person and circumstantial evididence points to the innocent person? DNA can exonerate someone but it can’t always be correct in condemning a person.
Lot persuaded God not to destroy Sodom if there were any innocent people there. The death of an innocent person was a price too high to pay even to destroy the evil.
Personally, I think Powell should die for what he did. We might think we are sure in this case of his guilt. However, the problem is that we never condemn anyone to death unless we are sure at the time that they are guilty. If we find out later we were wrong, we can’t take a mulligan. If the person is in prison we can release and compensate them. The state-sanctioned death of one innocent person (even if thought to be correct at the time) is worse than not executing hundreds of truly guilty people.
If I were a family member of Powell’s victims I might feel differently. That’s why such decisions must be made objectively by people not immediately impacted by the crime.
Powell said he did it. I believe him. It might be the only truth he ever told in his life.
If I took the position that if one innocent is killed then too high of a price is extracted, then I could never support war. There are certainly justified wars, although not all behavior during that war is probably justified.
My pro choice position actually sort of follows the same logic. People are either woman focused or fetus focused. If I were fetus focused, I would have to decide that there are no hard cases. Rape, incest, that sort of thing. Why should a fetus conceived as rape have less standing than one conceived in love?
I cannot in good faith support any law that tells a woman she must bear the child that is a result of rape or incest. That offends every ounce of my being. So I am woman focused and am pro choice.
Carl Sagan says it far better than I do.
http://www.2think.org/abortion.shtml
Life is never simple and there are many gray areas. I first formed my opinions as a young person during the Thalidomide scare. I have not changed.
I still say the best way to prevent abortion is to prevent unwanted pregnancy. Planned Parenthood, as an organization, probably does the best as spreading the news on that count.
Basically though I think reproductive issues are private and should not be political. They should be between the individual and their physican. I think a lot more women my age have strong feeling on this issue than do younger ones–perhaps because we have seen what happens when women don ‘t have access to choice.
“I still say the best way to prevent abortion is to prevent unwanted pregnancy.”
YUP.
“Basically though I think reproductive issues are private and should not be political.”
YUP.
It’s a moral, medical decision–one that should never have to be made in a perfect world.
@Posting As Pinko
…what she said!
Bob Marshall, the same Bob that in his first election cycle had a staged break in at his campaign office? This guy is all afire with hatred for his fellow citizens, I await the day his anger burns him out. Ask youselves, why are the repubs-consevatives-TeaBaggers always angry, angry when they win elections (and run the table with their agenda) and angry when they loose elections…. as John Stewart once said to bow tie boy and serpent head you are hurting the country
Tom
life long Irish American Democrat
Apparently Marshall-gate is no longer a local matter. Bobby Big Mouth has finally outdone himself. Despite being the laughing stock of nation this week and being rebuked by the governor, he continues his witch doctor medical message.
Today’s message from Big Mouth Bob is that abortion weakens the cervix. He needs to take a lesson from Tony Kornheiser who just came out and admitted what he said was stupid. (Kornheiser has been suspended from ESPN for 2 weeks for his comments on Hannah Storms attitre)
Hi Tom and welcome. It sounds like you and Side Show Bob have some history. We hope you will be a frequent flier here.
Did you even BOTHER to sign the “We Want the Funk” petition? Or do you not sympathize with the the National Society for Getting Down?
Ok, Ok, I signed the petition. I gotta go piss myself laughing now….if you’ll excuse me.
Good one! Funny as hell! Oh, was that not meant to be funny? 🙂
@Need to Know “Also, read the history of Planned Parenthood. Its origins lie in racism and eugenics.”
@Moon-howler “Many organizations have origins that we probably wouldn’t think much of today. I can’t think of an example off the top of my head.”
F.A.I.R?
Never saw the funk petition. Feel free to post it. I have only had one petition ever pay off.
I doubt if the magic petition will pay off. I wouldn’t count on it. Frankly, I don’t even know who is circulating it.
Emma, I will have to think on that one. Probably. One that I belonged to that I found out had some link to FAIR was Zero Population. It sounded great on paper. Only replace yourself…all that. Turns out it was very engineered.
I like Planned Parenthood because they have been dedicated to the concept that prevention is the best way to eliminate abortion. I don’t care if Margaret Sangor started it. Who cares. Interesting lady.
Emma, what happened to your other avatar? Would that be coffee or tea now? 😉
Coffee or tea—it depends on the issue 😉
@Emma
Emma, that avatar looks like a Latte to me…
Moon, we’ll agree to disagree on pro-life vs. pro-choice. Everyone is entrenched in their views there. I found it interesting that in the introduction to this thread you wrote that all three moderators don’t agree on abortion. Sometimes, in order to make progress on other issues, we all need to skip over that one.
Regarding war, I see a difference from abortion and capital punishment. No war has ever been fought that did not cost the lives of countless innocent people. In war, someone risks their life with a chance but not the certainty of dying in a cause greater than themselves. Abortion and capital punishment involve the deliberate, intentional death of specific persons. I consider a fetus in the womb a person and you don’t so we’ll leave that one where it is.
The key issue with war is whether or not it’s justified. Some situations have a nearly universal consensus, such as defeating Hitler or routing out the Taliban who supported al Quaeda in Afghanistan. Other situations are more difficult.
Preemptive war, or starting a war because you think another nation might be considering attacking you, is wrong. The Founding Fathers would be appalled. Iraq is one of the reasons the Republicans got their clock cleaned in 2008. Preemptive war is not consistent with American character and people knew it. In an “I told you so” vein, I was one of the two or three Republicans in Prince William County who voted for McCain in the 2000 primary. I have great respect for the abilities of Bush senior but doubted that junior had the same experience and judgement that McCain offered.
Back to religion and politics, an old friend of mine had lunch with Bob Woodward a few years ago and Woodward recounted an interview he did with Bush, Jr. Woodward asked Bush if he relied on his father for advice in conducting his foreign policy. Bush replied no – that he asked God for advice. God helps us largely through the people He puts in our lives. He is not going to write a memo to junior. Rejecting the wisdom and advice his father could have offered was rejecting part of the guidance God provided for him.
Faith, values, judgement and character are all vital for good leadership. Bob Marshall should realize that ill-considered remarks implying that God punishes people through their children does not represent the faith that most people practice. Leaders such as former President Bush, Jr. should understand that God does not give them a blueprint. They are elected to make wise decisions and will suffer the conseqences if they don’t.
Very cute! 😉
When I heard Bob Marshall say the word “cervix” I got the heeby jeeby’s! EWWWW is all I cans say. I am appalled that no one reporter has REQUIRED him to show is accepted medical journal proof! Furthemore, Bob has said children are being born with “handicaps”, what in G-d’s name does a cervix have to do with DNA???!!!!!