air towerAn air traffic controller and his supervisor have been put on leave because the air traffic controller allowed his kids to come to work with him. On the first day, the son spoke with pilots from the tower. Day 2, the daughter repeated the behavior. FAA folks are furious. “Take your child to work” wasn’t such a good idea in this case.

The cable news channels have been filled with the audios of the kids talking with pilots. The pilots have also come under criticism for not asking to speak with an adult. General consensus has been How stupid can you be!

According to NJ.com

It’s anyone’s guess what the controller was thinking when he allowed his child take over the microphone, or maybe he wasn’t thinking at all. It’s not the first such parental blunder: Last year, an MTA subway operator let her son have a go at the controls of a New York City train.

The boy’s instructions to pilots were correct, presumably prompted by dad, and the pilots sounded amused as they responded. But there’s nothing cute about letting a child talk to pilots preparing for takeoff at one of the nation’s busiest airports. There’s a good reason air traffic controllers are licensed and well trained — to ensure the safety of aircraft and everyone on them. Control towers are high-pressure places where any distraction could lead to catastrophe.

The FAA released a statement saying the employees involved in the incident are suspended from the control tower pending an investigation, adding: “This behavior is unacceptable.”

Is there any excuse for allowing kids to communicate with pilots? Should certain businesses not participate in ‘Take your child to work’ day? Should anyone be allowed in an air control tower who is not on official business?

Video to hear kids’ voices

58 Thoughts to “Kids Direct Planes at JFK”

  1. marinm

    The audio clips were cute. None of the pilots on the tapes or being interviewed about it had an (safety) issue with it. The controller had everything under control. I say, why not?

  2. Rez

    This is not the FAA I worked for. We actually had a sense of humor. As a pilot, I don’t think I would have had a fear that the tower did not have control over air traffic.

    What a sad state of affairs that people could get upset about this–it sounds like whatever causes political correctness. I am not sure what to call it–the fear of criticism and thus overreaction? Maybe that is more accurate.

    I was actually thinking of emailing Randy Babbit, the FAA Administrator, to let him know that he totally overreacted and needs to learn about lessening stress in a very stressful workplace. Having worked in management positions, I have seen this fear of criticism play out too many times. And people who take this kind of action seem to think it makes them look decisive but usually it is overdone.

    How many times have we criticized school administrators for overreacting to simple childhood actions? It is the same mentality.

  3. marinm

    Rez, that reminds me of an email I got last night. Moderator, with your permission..

    SCHOOL — 1958 vs. 2010

    Scenario:
    Jack goes quail hunting before school, pulls into school parking lot with shotgun in gun rack.
    1958 – Vice Principal comes over, looks at Jack’s shotgun, goes to his car and gets his shotgun to show Jack.
    2008 – School goes into lock down, FBI called, Jack hauled off to jail and never sees his truck or gun again. Counselors called in for traumatized students and teachers.

    Scenario:
    Johnny and Mark get into a fist fight after school.
    1958 – Crowd gathers. Mark wins. Johnny and Mark shake hands and end up buddies.
    2008 – Police called, SWAT team arrives, arrests Johnny and Mark. Charge them with assault, both expelled even though Johnny started it.

    Scenario:
    Jeffrey won’t be still in class, disrupts other students.
    1958 – Jeffrey sent to office and given a good paddling by the Principal. Returns to class, sits still and does not disrupt class again.
    2008 – Jeffrey given huge doses of Ritalin. Becomes a zombie. Tested for ADD. School gets extra money from state because Jeffrey has a disability.

    Scenario:
    Billy breaks a window in his neighbor’s car and his Dad gives him a whipping with his belt.
    1958 – Billy is more careful next time, grows up normal, goes to college, and becomes a successful businessman.
    2008 – Billy’s dad is arrested for child abuse. Billy removed to foster care and joins a gang. State psychologist tells Billy’s sister that she remembers being abused herself and their dad goes to prison. Billy’s mom has affair with psychologist.

    Scenario:
    Mark gets a headache and takes some aspirin to school.
    1958 – Mark shares aspirin with Principal out on the smoking dock.
    2008 – Police called, Mark expelled from school for drug violations.. Car searched for drugs and weapons.

    Scenario:
    Pedro fails high school English.
    1958 – Pedro goes to summer school, passes English, goes to college.
    2008 – Pedro’s cause is taken up by state. Newspaper articles appear nationally explaining that teaching English as a requirement for graduation is racist. ACLU files class action lawsuit against state school system and Pedro’s English teacher. English banned from core curriculum. Pedro given diploma anyway but ends up mowing lawns for a living because he cannot speak English.

    Scenario:
    Johnny takes apart leftover firecrackers from 4th of July, puts them in a model airplane paint bottle, blows up a red ant bed.
    1958 – Ants die.
    2008- BATF, Homeland Security, FBI called. Johnny charged with domestic terrorism, FBI investigates parents, siblings removed from home, computers confiscated, Johnny’s Dad goes on a terror watch list and is never allowed to fly again.

    Scenario:
    Johnny falls while running during recess and scrapes his knee. He is found crying by his teacher, Mary. Mary hugs him to comfort him.
    1958 – In a short time, Johnny feels better and goes on playing.
    2008 – Mary is accused of being a sexual predator and loses her job. She faces 3 years in State Prison. Johnny under goes 5 years of therapy.

  4. Rez

    @marinm

    Thanks, got a few chuckles with that one. Fortunately or unfortunately, I remember childhood in 1958 and the results are accurate.

  5. Marin, I was around in 1958 and it didn’t quite go down like that. 🙄

  6. marinm

    MH, at least i left the parts out with Glenn Beck crying… Gimme some credit! 🙂

    Seriously, the FAA should let this one slide. Kids should want to come to work with parents and see what they do. Our next generation needs to learn what it is we do and how we do it – they ain’t learning that stuff in schools. 😉

  7. Actually I am sort of shocked that people here didn’t have a stronger reaction to the kids in the tower. Its a place of business and for many years, that profession was noted to be the most stressful. Kids are distracting and have no business in an environment where the people working there have thousands of people’s lives literally in their hands.

    It is unconscionable, in my opinion, that anyone who was not a trained professional air traffic controller would be communicating with planes.

  8. I am all for kids going to work with parents if their parents do a job that isn’t safety related. What if the father had been a coal miner. Would we have sent the kids off with Daddy? How about a skyscrapper window washer? Naaahhhh

    Some kids just don’t get to go to work with daddy.

  9. I am grateful, Marin, that there was no crying Glenn Beck.

  10. marinm

    You have to have faith that the adult knows what he’s doing with regards to parenting and protecting the child. If a parent can’t make that decision than what decisions CAN he/she make for thier minor child?

    You either trust parents to be parents or you don’t.

  11. Rez

    @Moon-howler

    Wolfie, it is stressful in many air traffic facilities. But I can assure you that controllers do not get distracted easily. In many situations, it is pretty routine stuff and the routine gets to them.

    When needed in a crisis situation, those people are my heroes as generally nothing can break their concentration. They are true professionals. But sometimes stressful workplaces need relief much like a pressure cooker that is designed to periodically release pressure.

    There was nothing like landing all the planes in the air on September 11, which included directing them to safe landing areas capable of handling that type of aircraft. There were tons of distractions all over the country but the controllers kept their focus. A kid in a tower is nothing compared to the distractions air traffic folks had on September 11.

    By the way, at locations without positive traffic control, pilots use a system called UNICOM in which the people talking to planes are neither trained controllers nor are they many times even at the airport, but sometimes downtown somewhere. Pilots also transmit on UNICOM in order to tell other pilots of their intentions.

    Just for education purposes, here is a description of UNICOM from the airman’s information manual for those that are interested–

    UNICOM is a nongovernment air/ground radio communication station which may provide airport information at public use airports where there is no tower or FSS. On pilot request, UNICOM stations may provide pilots with weather information, wind direction, the recommended runway, or other necessary information.

  12. Gainesville Resident

    This is my take on it:

    Radio communications are sometimes hard to understand in the best of circumstances. I did not find the children’s voices THAT easy to understand. What if the pilot had thought they said something different, and it caused a problem?

    I’m sorry, radio communications are a serious thing. Only those permitted to make such communications should do so. That does not include someone’s son or daughter (of any age).

    Maybe it is because I work on federal contracts – but military or civilian gov’t systems are serious things. Many dollars are spent on their development, and they are designed to be operated correctly. Putting a child on a military or civilian gov’t system is just not good. I don’t care WHAT the system is, it just shouldn’t be done. Sure, let them LOOK, but don’t let them TOUCH.

    That’s my own personal take on it. Maybe I’m wrong, and maybe I’m biased by spending many years designing and developing military systems. Now this is a civilian gov’t system, but millions of people a year depend on it to keep them safe. So i consider it in the same category as a military system. I will freely admit I’ve never worked on a civilian gov’t system, and my only knowledge of Air Traffic Control is what I read, and I don’t believe everything I read.

    Still, I heard the audio clip, and I didn’t think it was too good of a thing to have happen.

    Also, when the Air Traffic Controllers Union AND the FAA agree on something (they both are not happy about this “incident”) – you know it’s serious!

  13. Gainesville Resident

    marinm :
    MH, at least i left the parts out with Glenn Beck crying… Gimme some credit!
    Seriously, the FAA should let this one slide. Kids should want to come to work with parents and see what they do. Our next generation needs to learn what it is we do and how we do it – they ain’t learning that stuff in schools.

    I don’t have a problem with them coming in and watching the air traffic controllers. Getting ON the ATC system and talking over it, that’s a whole other thing. In fact, the kids should be told to be quiet and respectful of the air traffic controllers doing their work. In fact, it would be a lesson in learning how to observe without being distracting. I’m sure the air traffic controllers block out distractions all the time. Anyway, my problem is not with their presence in the tower, but actually communicating with pilots over the radio – who may not be able to clearly understand a child’s voice, and the potential for misinterpretation. No one in the tower could possibly know how the child’s voice would sound on the other end – there could be noise/static, etc. I know a lot about radio communications, being an amateur radio operator – and I have been one since 11 years old and know that children’s voices don’t often work well over the radio. The clip I heard, while I could understand what was being said, I see the potential for miscommunication as very high. I would not want a child reading something verbatim, to a plane I’m flying in. No thanks!

  14. marinm

    No pilot interviewed (that I know of) had an issue with the tower controls. Even foreign nationals were able to interpret the ATC commands. I just don’t see the issue. The controller had the situation handled.

    This thread has 1 HAM and a (retired?) FAA controller. Any of y’all heard of the Virginia Defense Force? We’re always looking for (radio) communicators. 🙂

  15. The air traffic controller’s kids weren’t in danger, the people in the planes could have been in danger.

    You asked me a loaded question: Do I trust people to be parents? Some people abolutely not and if I were queen I would tie off every single conduit to reproductive cells in their body. Being able to reproduce is no guarantee of wisdom. Rhett Butler said it best to Scarlet A cat is a better mother than you are (or something like that)

  16. marinm

    So, if that’s the case, should the govt have the right to mandate a womans tubes be tied if she’s unfit? That if she forgets to buckle in her kid one day that she should be tossed in jail? That if she doesn’t put the child to bed by 2100 that she should get the death penalty?

    Would not, if the pilots felt threatened by the ATC communications that they would’ve asked to speak to a supervisor and lodged a complaint? No one in any of those transmissions felt danger or were concerned. Why are we monday morning quarterbacking this?

  17. Those are questions that have nothing to do with the case above.

    Marin, you are failing to see that no one is concerned over the man’s kids. They are concerned over the plane crew and passengers who by all rights, believe that the communication between tower and plane is being conducted by professionals, not someone’s cute kids.

    The man isn’t being paid to bring his kids to work. He is being paid to do a very important, critical job that shouldn’t involve cute.

    We are Monday morning quarterbacking it because that behavior could have ended up on the business end of serious. If there are not rules in place that prevent it, then there should be. This kind of lax security and on the job behavior is what invite lawsuits. Prevention prevention prevention.

    BTW, do you think air traffic controllers ought to have their pay cut back 20% like you want to do with the teachers in PWC?

  18. PWC Taxpayer

    Stupid is as stupid does and Federal employee stupid is only allowable (expected) at the senior political level. Neither the controller or the on-duty supervisor or any of the pilots involved saw any harm in it – at that moment, under those traffic, flight and weather conditions. Indeed we can assume that no other member of the FAA crew spoke up about it either – and there’s the rub, it went public — with a recording — how? There is more to this and my guess is ithat its petty or revengeful from the lowest level to the public reaction to it.

  19. marinm

    Hrm. Good question regarding 20%. I dunno. I haven’t looked much into ATC salaries and how they are funded (revenue share from airports, or tickets sold or straight off the federal bucket). I don’t have an answer because it’s not in my radar. But, generally speaking I have no issue in reducing salaries (and benefits) across the board.

    I think PWC has a good point.

  20. In a post 9-11 world, when pilots are overshooting airports by 100’s of miles because the pilots are on their laptops, when pilots fly drunk, and when NASA employees stalk their competition, it is just bad form to have your kids talking to pilots.

    And I did think they sounded cute. The issue is more about exercising good judgement. Do you really think the air traffic controller exercised good judgement? Obviously he didn’t or we wouldn’t be having this discussion. It is sort of like should the WHite HOuse social secretary have stepped down. Well, nothing bad happened. ….Bad judgement.

  21. marinm

    I can see your point if he handed the headset to his daughter or son and walked away. He didn’t. He had the situation handled and no one had an issue with it.

    I disagree with your opinion on his judgement. I don’t have an issue with what he (the operator) did.

    And, I have a flight in 2 weeks. That kid can clear my plane for takeoff anytime he wants.

  22. I sure hope we are on different planes. I doubt we will ever agree on what constitutes good judgement.

  23. Gainesville Resident

    I still say, the potential for misunderstanding what was said over the radio was high. And, you are dealing with lives of passengers, crew, and pilots. Just because the pilots in question had no issues, nor did the supervisor, doesn’t make it right.

    WTOP had an interview with an aviation expert. He said it was reckless behavior on the part of the air traffic controller. He said this should never ever be allowed to happen again.

    I have no problem with bringing children into the tower to see how air traffic control works.

    I have a real problem with having them relay air traffic control commands to planes carrying literally hundreds of passengers.

    I fly very often for business. In fact, I have a trip coming up in 2 weeks. I don’t like to think that someone should so casually disregard AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL RULES AND REGULATIONS.

    While this is a one time occurrence, I am amazed at how people seem to brush this off as being “cute” and so on.

    Again, maybe it is my experience developing and designing military satellite communications systems – and maybe the civilian world is different.

    However, my amateur radio experience tells me, that children’s voices do not carry well over the radio in some circumstances. I know, because I got my license at 11 years old and it wasn’t until my voice changed at age 13 or 14 that I had an easier time. Before that, I did better using morse code, quite frankly.

    Anyway, leaving that aside, I doubt anywhere in the FAA Rules and Regs for air traffic control does it say a person who is not an air traffic controller should engage pilots in communication from the air traffic control tower. If that was allowed, it would shock me.

    I guess I repeated what I said before – but my opinion isn’t going to be changed on this. And, it is only my opinion, but I guess I have a strong opinion about this. It seems many other members of the public do too – I would hazard a guess that if you took an opinion poll, more than 50% of the public would not be happy with what happened here .

    It also seems maybe more than 50% of aviation folks wouldn’t be happy either.

    I guess I could be wrong about these numbers I’m picking, but I kind of doubt it.

  24. Gainesville Resident

    Moon-howler :
    I sure hope we are on different planes. I doubt we will ever agree on what constitutes good judgement.

    I think I vote to be on the plane you are on – we both seem to share the same opinion about this!

    Then again, I’ve had maybe 20 flights in the past year. More than a few of them haven’t been the greatest experience. In fact, I’ve encountered many major delays and once from Texas got home 8 hours late – at 2 AM in the morning last year!

    So, maybe no one should fly with me – as I’ve had lots of bad luck with flights being cancelled completely, etc. etc. even though weather was fine (one time they could not find the copilot and had to cancel the flight as a result – and it caused a ripple effect since it was a connecting flight). I maybe just have bad luck with flights being cancelled, delayed due to oddball circumstances, etc.

  25. Captain Idiot-Face

    I’d say the guy (the controller) is guilty of a “slightly boneheaded” move, and not much more. Punishment…..”don’t do it again”. ’nuff said.

  26. Captain Idiot-Face

    Here’s an example of what I DON’T want to hear on those airwaves. “ALLAH AKBAR”

  27. I have a couple questions that I am sure someone here can answer; what is the training required for an ATC? Is there a degree required? A special license? So many hours logged doing said work?

    I get that this is “cute” and I am tempted to agree with Capt I.F. regarding a slap on the hand punishment, but the precedent this sets is disturbing. That child (believed to be 8 or 9) is susceptible to distractions, unlike a trained adult and anyone of us who has (or has had) young kids can attest to that.

    “Cute” is taking your kid to the fire station and letting him sit in the front seat of the fire engine while it sits safely in the garage. Stupid is letting your kid drive it to the fire.

  28. Gainesville Resident

    I should say, the time last year from Texas it was also not due to weather. Some kind of vague “equipment problem” the airline woudlnt disclose.

  29. Its all fun and games until someone loses an eye……
    or an airplane.

    While the parent should be reprimanded, the controller did have everything under control. That said, we only say that because nothing bad did happen. Imagine the outcry if there HAD been a mishap. CYA! Just don’t do it…..

  30. Rez

    I think the point of my earlier posts was that it was overkill. I entirely agree with warnings and discipline but suspension of both the controller and supervisor? It was the level of punishment that I disagreed with, not the fact that they may need to counsel the employee to prevent recurrence.

  31. Rez

    marinm :
    Hrm. Good question regarding 20%. I dunno. I haven’t looked much into ATC salaries and how they are funded (revenue share from airports, or tickets sold or straight off the federal bucket). I don’t have an answer because it’s not in my radar. But, generally speaking I have no issue in reducing salaries (and benefits) across the board.
    I think PWC has a good point.

    FAA salaries come from two primary sources–about 50-70% comes from the Aviation Trust Fund and the remainder from the general fund. The general fund is there because of the military’s use of airspace and the FAA systems and the military does not contribute to the Aviation Trust Fund. The trust fund gets its funding from the passenger ticket taxes (you pay on your ticket a certain percentage), segment taxes, cargo taxes, fuel taxes and there used to be a tax on tires but I think that is gone.

    Up until the 2000’s, FAA’s salaries used the General Schedule. Sometime in the 2000-2004 timeframe, a performance based system was put into place that started out roughly like the GS schedule. A few years back as well, the FAA Administrator negotiated a union agreement that drove controller salaries out of sight compared to other FAA employees. It was actually even better for a supervisor or higher to go back to being a line controller because they made so much more on the line. The union agreement caused most of the rest of FAA to unionize because there is still only a finite amount of money appropriated to FAA and the other disciplines saw that if AT was getting huge salary increases, it had to come from somewhere else (like their own salaries) so it was a protection device to unionize.

    I just thought I would save anyone who was interested some research time.

  32. Gainesville Resident

    I think the point made that while this time nothing bad happened, there easily could have been something bad happened. Imagine the public outcry if something bad had happened.

    The fact that there was POTENTIAL for something bad to happen – that says that this should never have happened in the first place.

    Also, there’s a reason for rules and regulations (well usually – sometimes there are stupid rules and regulations out there). I’m sure there’s an FAA rule that only an air traffic controller should be giving planes directions over the radio. That rule is a good one and it should never be violated.

    Also, to me the fact that both the union and the FAA are on the same side of the issue (basically condemning this incident) says something. How many times in the past have you seen those two entities on the same side of any issue?

  33. Gainesville Resident

    Rez :

    marinm :
    Hrm. Good question regarding 20%. I dunno. I haven’t looked much into ATC salaries and how they are funded (revenue share from airports, or tickets sold or straight off the federal bucket). I don’t have an answer because it’s not in my radar. But, generally speaking I have no issue in reducing salaries (and benefits) across the board.
    I think PWC has a good point.

    FAA salaries come from two primary sources–about 50-70% comes from the Aviation Trust Fund and the remainder from the general fund. The general fund is there because of the military’s use of airspace and the FAA systems and the military does not contribute to the Aviation Trust Fund. The trust fund gets its funding from the passenger ticket taxes (you pay on your ticket a certain percentage), segment taxes, cargo taxes, fuel taxes and there used to be a tax on tires but I think that is gone.
    Up until the 2000’s, FAA’s salaries used the General Schedule. Sometime in the 2000-2004 timeframe, a performance based system was put into place that started out roughly like the GS schedule. A few years back as well, the FAA Administrator negotiated a union agreement that drove controller salaries out of sight compared to other FAA employees. It was actually even better for a supervisor or higher to go back to being a line controller because they made so much more on the line. The union agreement caused most of the rest of FAA to unionize because there is still only a finite amount of money appropriated to FAA and the other disciplines saw that if AT was getting huge salary increases, it had to come from somewhere else (like their own salaries) so it was a protection device to unionize.
    I just thought I would save anyone who was interested some research time.

    That was a very interesting post about FAA salaries. Thanks for sharing all that info.

  34. Gainesville Resident

    marinm :
    No pilot interviewed (that I know of) had an issue with the tower controls. Even foreign nationals were able to interpret the ATC commands. I just don’t see the issue. The controller had the situation handled.
    This thread has 1 HAM and a (retired?) FAA controller. Any of y’all heard of the Virginia Defense Force? We’re always looking for (radio) communicators.

    I’m actually not really active in amateur radio anymore – even though I keep my license renewed. I kind of got more into computers and away from radio communications in the past 20 years or so. I used to be active on the MARS (Military Amateur Radio Service) network which was amateur radio operators that passed messages from military servicemen back to their families. That was before the days of the internet and other more easier forms of communication though. Also back when I was active, it was a thrill to talk to someone in some foreign country – before the days of the internet and so on. A lot has changed since I was really active in amateur radio, actually. I mainly keep my licensed renewed so I don’t lose my callsign, which I happen to like. But it is rare I actually make use of it these days – unless visiting another amateur radio operator and getting on the radio from their equipment.

  35. Rez

    marinm :
    No pilot interviewed (that I know of) had an issue with the tower controls. Even foreign nationals were able to interpret the ATC commands. I just don’t see the issue. The controller had the situation handled.
    This thread has 1 HAM and a (retired?) FAA controller. Any of y’all heard of the Virginia Defense Force? We’re always looking for (radio) communicators.

    Actually, I am not a former FAA controller. I am retired FAA from another discipline but not a controller. I am a pilot however. As I was in management, I was also pretty involved in the 9-11 and post 9-11 actions by the FAA and the funding for FAA.

  36. The FAA was beyond impressive on 9-11. What a masterful job they did without any dress rehearsal at all. Getting all flight out of the sky in the time that they did seems like a miracle.

    The father, Glenn Duffy, and the supervisor, name not said on TV, are both on leave with pay. I am sure Duffy did have things under control. However, its really bad bad publicity. It derides confidence when airlines are stuggling. I don’t think suspension with pay is particularly harsh. Chew him out a new one and bring both back. Point taken. I don’t want them shot. Just chewed real hard.

  37. Juturna

    Let’s just hope our local 9-1-1 center doesn’t get the same idea.

  38. Captain Idiot-Face

    Gainesville Resident :
    I should say, the time last year from Texas it was also not due to weather. Some kind of vague “equipment problem” the airline woudlnt disclose.

    “Equipment Problem” = Broken Plane

  39. So Slow, how was the birthday? big spankings?

    How does it feel to be….(grim music) 4-0?

  40. Emma

    I think the controller and his supervisor got just what they deserve. I love kids, but I also believe very strongly in boundaries, and I don’t believe kids belong absolutely everywhere adults go. This cutesy kind of behavior is unprofessional and possibly annoying to some pilots who had to “play along” in order to get their job done safely.

    I was on a flight last fall where a couple of off-duty flight attendants were taking a standby flight and were sitting right behind me at the back of the plane. Through the entire flight, they yukked it up and engaged the working flight attendants in a little party, complaining about management, making silly jokes about the dumb things passengers say and hilarious gags about the plane crashing. If any one of us had been making those wisecracks, you can bet a sky marshall would be paying us a visit very quickly. Different situation, I know, but I don’t think the friendly skies are any place for silly, unprofessional behavior at all. It’s a serious business where any one of us could be denied the ability to fly if we dare complain or stand out in any way during the security check, boarding process and flight. And sometimes what a parent thinks is adorable might be considered rude, obnoxious and disruptive by someone else.

    And those flight attendants sitting behind me? I wrote the airline a letter enumerating all of the hilarious crash jokes and dumb-passenger insults. I received a flight voucher, and hope that they at least received a reprimand. If we are supposed to behave ourselves, so should they.

  41. Emma, thanks for bringing that out here. I had a similar experience coming back on a cross country flight. There were three flight attendants, a packed flight and some single men who all seemed to know each other. One of the flight attendants went into the ‘coffee, tea, or me’ mode. Talk about doing the mating dance. At any rate, as disgusting at it was to watch bar- like behavior from one of the professional staff, the real issue is she made her colleagues work double time because she was far too interested in flirting. It took twice as long to get a drink and had there been an emergency, this woman might not have even noticed. I thought about a letter. I don’t know why I never followed through. I should have. I will have to say this is not normal behavior.

    I totally agree with you about the kid situation also. What is cute to parents is generally not cute to the rest of the world.

  42. Captain Idiot-Face

    @Moon-howler

    Not too bad 🙂 I need to spend my 40s getting into better shape…I think that more than anything else will curb the “feelings of getting older”. That and with another child on the way (and I’d like one more after that for 3 total), I’ll be needing it to keep up and live to see them graduate high school. I’m having an identity crisis because I wasn’t sure if this was replacing anti-bvbl or going to exist alongside it. Slowpoke was quite specific to the somewhat earlier days of anti-bvbl. Doesn’t really “go” with Moonhowlings.net. I’m feeling more “Wile E. Coyote” these days.

  43. Emma

    @Moon-howler I also think there is a level of absurdity in having adults line up to remove their shoes and submit to full body scans while a small child is up in the tower directing air traffic. We either take airline safety and security seriously, or we don’t.

  44. Gainesville Resident

    Captain Idiot-Face :
    @Moon-howler
    Not too bad I need to spend my 40s getting into better shape…I think that more than anything else will curb the “feelings of getting older”. That and with another child on the way (and I’d like one more after that for 3 total), I’ll be needing it to keep up and live to see them graduate high school. I’m having an identity crisis because I wasn’t sure if this was replacing anti-bvbl or going to exist alongside it. Slowpoke was quite specific to the somewhat earlier days of anti-bvbl. Doesn’t really “go” with Moonhowlings.net. I’m feeling more “Wile E. Coyote” these days.

    Happy 40th birthday! You are still young – I hit the big 50 a year ago!

  45. Gainesville Resident

    Emma :
    I think the controller and his supervisor got just what they deserve. I love kids, but I also believe very strongly in boundaries, and I don’t believe kids belong absolutely everywhere adults go. This cutesy kind of behavior is unprofessional and possibly annoying to some pilots who had to “play along” in order to get their job done safely.

    Actually, that’s really a good summary of this and I agree – and the more I think about it – the controller and his supervisor should be rerpimanded, etc. Now, if it happens again and either of them are involved, THEN I think they ought to go. I’m assuming they will have realized the error of their ways and that will be the end of it.

  46. Gainesville Resident

    Emma :
    I was on a flight last fall where a couple of off-duty flight attendants were taking a standby flight and were sitting right behind me at the back of the plane. Through the entire flight, they yukked it up and engaged the working flight attendants in a little party, complaining about management, making silly jokes about the dumb things passengers say and hilarious gags about the plane crashing. If any one of us had been making those wisecracks, you can bet a sky marshall would be paying us a visit very quickly. Different situation, I know, but I don’t think the friendly skies are any place for silly, unprofessional behavior at all. It’s a serious business where any one of us could be denied the ability to fly if we dare complain or stand out in any way during the security check, boarding process and flight. And sometimes what a parent thinks is adorable might be considered rude, obnoxious and disruptive by someone else.
    And those flight attendants sitting behind me? I wrote the airline a letter enumerating all of the hilarious crash jokes and dumb-passenger insults. I received a flight voucher, and hope that they at least received a reprimand. If we are supposed to behave ourselves, so should they.

    I’ve seen some odd behavior by flight attendants as I fly way too often (I wish I didn’t have to but it’s the nature of my job). One flight last year particularly stands out. This one older flight attendant – she was in a bad mood. It was a flight where all they handed out was small bottles of water (a short flight from Dallas, TX to Ft. Hood, TX). When she came down the aisle – at least to me and those around me – she slammed down the water bottle and was muttering “this airline stinks”!!! A couple of us just looked at each other like “why did we get this crazy flight attendant?” That was weird! When it was time to collect the bottles at the end, she still was muttering strange things and I thought she was going to break the trash bag the way she was heaving the empty water bottles into it.

    A couple of times I’ve witnessed younger flight attendants in the galley in the front (I often either get upgraded to first class or get a seat in the front of coach) – behaving like school girls, and talking about somewhat inappropriate stuff. I once did write a letter as I suffered with that on a 3 hour flight and it was really really annoying.

    Unfortunately, if you fly often enough, it is not hard to encounter unprofessional behavior by the flight attendants. The flight with the angry one – I was glad it was only a 50 minute flight roughly, as I was kind of worried that flight attendant was losing it! She must have been really angry at her employer!

  47. Gainesville Resident

    Emma :
    @Moon-howler I also think there is a level of absurdity in having adults line up to remove their shoes and submit to full body scans while a small child is up in the tower directing air traffic. We either take airline safety and security seriously, or we don’t.

    Indeed, you can’t have it both ways! These days, it really makes me wonder why someone actually thought it was OK to have a kid directing air traffic! Makes me wonder the level of intelligence there – as you would think the average person would have realized, this is a really STUPID thing to do! I would guess 99% of the air traffic controllers would never have thought of doing that. Of course, there’s always a few bad apples or dummies in any very large group of people (this group being “all air traffic controllers in the USA”).

  48. Gainesville Resident

    Juturna :
    Let’s just hope our local 9-1-1 center doesn’t get the same idea.

    That would also be scary. A child no more belongs on the police/fire/emergency radio making dispatches than on the ATC radio.

    When I was young I used to listen to the police radio. There was this one crazy dispatcher that liked to inject humor into police calls. I was amazed he was allowed to do that – and he had quite a following among local police radio “listeners”. He’d say a lot of inappropriate stuff – if there was a domestic disturbance he would say something like – better get over there before one of the spouses kills the other one! That is just one example, but gives you an idea. He always had a strange remark to make – of course I used to listen purposely at the times I knew he was on to see what wacky crazy thing he’d say next! If a police cruiser would radio in they are off duty for a lunch break – he’d say stuff like “enjoy those donuts”! It amazed me he kept his job doing this stuff. He was “Dispactcher #3” and he sort of had a big fan club in the police radio listening community! I thought he must be a weird guy though – or he had an very odd sense of humor. Although every Christmas he had this whole routine about Santa about unusual sightings of some UFO and so on – now that was pretty cute. Once a year that would have been fine, but as i said, almost every dispatch he would find something odd to say. I always wondered what the police officers on the receiving end of his dispatches thought!

  49. Gainesville Resident

    Captain Idiot-Face :

    Gainesville Resident :
    I should say, the time last year from Texas it was also not due to weather. Some kind of vague “equipment problem” the airline woudlnt disclose.

    “Equipment Problem” = Broken Plane

    Yep, I just liked how it is vague. One time, I witnessed a real equipment problem. This was last year too and ended up causing me to get to my destination very late as I missed my connecting flight as a result. First, we sat at the gate for a long time. The pilot finally told us the reason was there was a problem with the “windshield sealant”! I thought, that’s kind of scary – I don’t want the windshield flying out in mid-air, causing loss of pressure, etc.

    Then, after an hour of sitting at the gate – the pilot says – it’s fixed, we are getting ready to leave once the maintenance crew departs. So a few minutes later, we start to pull away from the terminal (this was at Dulles) and we abruptly stop! The pilot comes on and says, this flight will be cancelled – the hand brake just came off in my hand! So now of course we all had to disembark, and get reticketed. That started a fun day for me – the airline decided for my situation it would be better to put me on a flight out of Washington National – and they paid for a taxi to take me there. I get there, then find out THAT flight has been canceled! It was the start of a very very long day. To cap it all off – I got to my destination so late at this rinky dinky airport – that the rental car counter was closed since it closed at 11 PM and I got there at 12:30 AM (I was supposed to get there at 5 PM and this was once again in good old Ft. Hood, TX). There were no taxis either at that hour – I had to call some taxi company to come get me, then the next morning take a taxi BACK to the airport to get my rental car! What a disaster.

    Of course, there was a time in China where the flight was delayed – and I was at the window watching mechanics working on the plane, and they had an oil pan underneath and oil was running out all over the place! That had me concerned, but fortunately they cancelled that flight and put me on a different flight with a different plane! This was a domestic China flight out of Hong Kong, but it had me really worried there. I wouldn’t have wanted to get on the plane where they were frantically trying to change the oil, or repair an oil leak, or whatever it was they were doing! It kind of looked like keystone cops, and I would not have been happy to have been on that plane.

    Of course, there’s a lot of stuff you never see, so every time you hop on a plane you have no clue what maintenance issues it may have.

    One other time they couldn’t close the door that you board the plane from, so that flight got canceled.

    I could probably write a book about my crazy experiences on planes.

    One time back in the 80’s, there was this guy from India or Pakistan or such, sitting 3 rows behind me, that all of the sudden started shouting and screaming things in whatever language he spoke. It terrified all of us, and he kept arguing with the flight attendant. Fortunately it was near the end of a flight from Dulles to Denver, so the flight only had 30 minutes left. Nevertheless, it had me scared and I was glad when the plane landed and we got off without any incident.

  50. That humor dispatcher thing is a riot…sort of keystone cops…but also very inappropriate.

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