According to the Richmond Times Dispatch the Attorney General has advised public institutions of higher learning in Virginia that they cannot make sexual orientation a protected class.
Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli says Virginia’s colleges and universities cannot prohibit discrimination against gays because the General Assembly has not authorized them to do so.
In a letter Thursday to the presidents, rectors and boards of visitors of Virginia public colleges, Cuccinelli said: the law and public policy of Virginia “prohibit a college or university from including ‘sexual orientation’, ‘gender identity’, ‘gender expression’ or like classification, as a protected class within its non-discrimination policy, absent specific authorization from the General Assembly.“
What kind of state do we now live in? The Richmond Times Dispatch further states:
He said the recipients must consider the letter “as the opinion and advice” of the office of Attorney General.
And the recently elected Attorney General said those colleges or universities that have included sexual orientation in their policies acted without proper authority and those policies are invalid.
Tucker Martin, Gov. Bob McDonnell’s director of communications, noted that “the legal analysis . . . is consistent with all prior opinions from the Office of the Attorney General over the last 25 years on the subject.“
But Martin added: “The governor will appoint board members based solely on their ability and on their strong commitment to educational excellence in Virginia. The governor expects that no Virginia college or university, or any other state agency, will engage in discrimination of any kind.“
Governor McDonnell can’t have it both ways. Is he saying that colleges cannot forbid bias on the basis on sexual orientation but people aren’t to discriminate? What kind of bizzaro-speak is that? Do we now have an honor system? How far will this go? Can we fire the gay History professor because he is seen having dinner with a male companion? Can we decline admissions to anyone who openly confesses to being gay? Or can students scream “faggot” and “queer” at those suspected of being gay as they walk across campus?
Supposedly a directive from the governor’s office forbids discrimination for anything other than merit or qualification. We all know how those 2 abstractions can be abused. Those words have vague meaning when trying to prove discrimination.
The Richmond Times Dispatch has posted statements from several of the state schools. All seemed to have very guarded remarks:
Most of the state’s public universities have policies prohibiting discrimination based on sexual orientation. Today they were exploring how to react to Cuccinelli’s letter.
“Our policy covers some things the attorney general says it can’t,“ said University of Mary Washington Rector Nanalou Sauder. She said the board and UMW administrators will need to discuss what action the university can take.
“We expect that there’s going to be significant reaction from the university community as they learn about it,“ said Virginia Commonwealth University spokeswoman Pam Lepley.
College of William and Mary spokesman Brian Whitson said the letter would need to be closely reviewed before the college can determine how to proceed.
“William and Mary has had a long tradition of inclusion and diversity,“ he said.
The University of Virginia had no comment. “The university received a letter—marked privileged and confidential—from the attorney general. Any questions about the letter will need to be addressed to the attorney general or his office,“ spokeswoman Carol Wood said in a statement.
Virginia Democrats expressed strong disapproval:
Democrats, including Warner, the Democratic Party of Virginia and the Young Democrats of Virginia condemned Cuccinelli’s opinion.
“I am puzzled why the Attorney General would authorize our public colleges and universities to discriminate,“ Warner said in a statement.
“A decision on whether to hire, promote or offer admission should be based on whether or not the individual is qualified—period.“ “I think Governor McDonnell would be wise to reign (sic) in his Attorney General and get him back to doing the work of the people,“ said C. Richard Cranwell, chairman of the state Democratic Party.
“I believe the Attorney general’s advice will hurt the ability of our colleges and universities to attract the very best faculty, staff and students and damage the Commonwealth’s reputation for academic excellence and diversity,“ Warner said.
Perhaps a good class action law suit in in order. Does the General Assembly have to approve all policy at colleges and universities? Cuccinelli is a bigot and he is spreading his bigotry throughout the Commonwealth. He should be recalled. Unless Virginia is an anomaly, 10% of its residents are gay. Is Cuccinelli attempting to codify discrimination against them? This move is a giant step backwards for civil and human rights in Virginia.
DG, moderates are also empaths. Moderates in general don’t like discrimination.
I agree, Moonhowler:)
According to queerty.com
When asked about homesexuality as it relates to public policy, Cuccinelli responded:
Not to be suggestive but….are we to assume that kookoonelli is just a missionary type of guy?
Why does he care about other people’s sex lives? I sure don’t, and that includes Bill Clinton’s. I guess that would be considered a homosexual act in the world of kookoonelli also?????
Hey Ken, here’s an idea. You think homosexual acts are “abhorant”? Stop thinkin’ about them then!!!!!!!.
LOL, Elena. 🙂 25 years from now, the next generation will look back at ours and wonder why we ever had our panties in such a bunch over gay marriage. It will be as accepted as interracial marriage is today.
@Casual Observer
I was not referring to sexual orientation as an idiosyncrasy. I was referring to professional behavior and social graces in the work place. Sexual practices and preferences (gay and straight) should be off limits as discussion topics in the work place. If proper workplace etiquette is maintained, then discrimination is essentially a non-issue.
I do not care who is sleeping with whom. I do not know how to say it any clearer than that. But the term ‘protected class’ was mentioned several times in the main thread. I would bet that the ultimate goal of the ‘victimization’ crowd is to turn LGBT behavior into a protected class.
I don’t think it really comes up in a workplace sa they’re result driven. Atleast I’ve never seen or heard of it being used in a way that would preclude someone from being hired simply because of their sexual preference. We had one gay gentlemen that worked in our org and the only reason it ‘got out’ was that he made a forward comment to another worker that he liked younger men. While people might’ve disagreed with his lifestyle choice in private it never effected his job because he did good work.
As for all the other comments above against our honorable Attorney General — not in any of them do I see a valid point debating the legality of what he’s said. In fact, the ACLU isn’t taking a position on his statement yet and is hedging themselves — “We express no opinion of Mr. Cuccinelli’s analysis of state law, though we have serious doubts about it,” wrote ACLU of Virginia legal director Rebecca Glenberg, who added that if colleges follow Cuccinelli’s advice they still are bound by U.S. Supreme Court decisions not to discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation.
So, whats really changed? If nothing else, he’s reinforced that if change needs to happen then it has to occur at the General Assembly (as the correct venue for that change to occur) through the political process.
I see no issue with our AG telling an appendage of the State government and those sworn as government appointees to simply follow Virginian law.
Kelly, actually I agree with you about behavior at the workplace. I don’t think a person’s sexuality has any place going to work with people. However, If I have a husband one can assume I am straight. (not always a good indicator). It does come up as we get to know our fellow employees, regardless of how professional a person is. Also, in this situation, it isn’t just about employees.
According to the Augusta Free Press:
“
Hmmm — The country is in a fiscal and economic mess. California is flat broke. New York is soon to be there. Detroit has become a Third World city in many respects. (For the love of Mike, those poor people in Detroit can’t even afford to bury their dead and are letting the bodies pile up in the morgue!!) Corrupt politicians all over the place. Our debt and deficit are so high that our national credit rating is in jeopardy. Congress is spending like they think they have found that legendary Irish leprechaun with his pot of gold. The Federal Reserve Chairman has just warned us that we are in deep doodoo akin to the Greeks. Commentators are calling the government in Washington “dysfunctional.”
And this blog is in a big snit about a letter from the AG to public universities explaining their legal relationaship to the state legislature?!! I disagree with Casual Observer. Twenty-five years from now, the “next generation” is going to be busy cussing us all out for the mess they inherited from us.
All politics are local. And we have an AG who is sending letters to every public college and university in the state telling them to remove sexual orientation from the list of those we don’t discriminate against. Meanwhile our school board is waiting to see if it can charge students to get to specialty classes…and the AG worries more about advancing his own sicko political agenda.
Yea, I am in a snit. I want the AG to to something more productive. We need to hold his feet to the fire. We always curse previous generations. We haven’t yet recovered from the messes left by the Civil War if we want to count coup.
I won’t be guilted into ignoring discrimination.
Well, they say if you tell yourself something over and over and over again, eventually it becomes real. Best of luck with that!
Is that before or after the clone wars?
Please rest assured that we citizens will hold him up above your flames.
Usually extemists aren’t reelected. Capt, I don’t suppose you see Cuccinelli as an extremist?
Only time will tell. In 3 years, I expect there are people who will make it their business to run him out of town. You are betting they won’t, I am betting they will. That’s Vegas mentality.
Kelly,
Just wondering, how many gay people would you call friends in your social circle?
There will always be liberals who will try to run good men out of town. What you’re not counting on is other good men who will be there to keep it from happening.
Part of some complicated 65-point plans to get gays back into the closet I guess … homophobes in high places … I guess there is a “culture war” in America. Decency vs. id-driven homophobic penis envy.
You vote for Republicans you get stuff like this. Vote for Democrats, you get other problems. Clowns and lunatics run both parties.
Step 2 – Cucinelli confiscates gay porn by the truckload and brings it to his house to personally examine.
Step 3 – KY-Jelly can only be sold to minors with parental consent.
Step 41 – Cucinelli and Larry Craig get married and go off to live together, for the expressed purpose of seeing how disgusting male ay sex can be, and authoring a report about it.
Afraid I have to side with Rick Bentley on this one.
Captain, Cuccinelli isn’t a good man. He wants to legislate morality and win his culture war. I see Taliban signs there. He is an extremist. He not only offends liberals, he also offends moderates and some conservatives. What’s left? Extremists.
@Moon-howler
Not only is Cuccinelli a fine man, he would make a great Governor. Imagine the high humor in the notion that gays need any sort of “protection” on college campuses. There is no safer place in the world for gays than tucked away in ultra-liberal academia. Next, imagine the ridiculousness of every group of three people demanding protective legislation. “Me and my two buddies here, we like to get down with waterfowl, and we need Virginia’s government to ensure we’re not discriminated against.” I love it when liberals say “keep government out of my bedroom.” What they really mean is “government should take what happens in my bedroom and push it in the face of every single institution in existence.” Posts 69 and 70….unusually weak material from RB. I believe you can buy special stones and leather strops to sharpen your wit with from knivesplus.com
Here, instead of this laughable “gays need protection on campus” nonsense, here’s something to really get worked up about:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNDp6vy3MU8
Moon, you’ve got to admit that the Captain has a point here. I can imagine no other places in which homosexuals are less likely to run into discrimination than our public universities. The same goes for private universities as well these days, including almost all such institutions in Virginia. Notice that I did say “almost.” That has been the case even absent a specific protection measure out of the legislature in Richmond. And, quite candidly, I don’t think you are going to see that situation change under the current or any future politicians.
And speaking of our wonderfully “liberal” universities, take a gander at this case. A young girl was attending one of Virginia’s most prestigious public universities. In some of her seminars she was ridiculed by her professors because she had the temerity to disagree with them and advocate her own “Right to Life” views. It got so bad that she came home full of fear that, by freely expressing her own opinions, she had put her grades in jeopardy. For a young student to be bullied in a college classroom by supposedly adult professors is absolutely inexcusable, more so when we all pay part of their salaries with tax money. How do I know about this case? It was my daughter. And I am not the only parent who has seen such things. Too many of our institutions of higher education speak with forked tongue when it comes to non-discrimination.
There are jerks everywhere. I expect I could probably just as easily find a pro choice female student who has been ridiculed for her beliefs also. The idea that all campuses are hot-beds of ultra liberal contempt for all that is sacred is simply not true.
It is the same type of erroneous thinking that makes people believe that when I was in college it was just one big anti war demonstration full of marching, bra-less pot smoking, LSD tripping girls. Nothing could be further from the truth. I don’t recall ever seeing one on my state supported college campus. Everyone wore a bra and if they were doing drugs they were smart enough to do it elsewhere.
Sweeping generalizations don’t prove any points. And no, I don’t think the Captain makes a point at all…at least not a logical one. It really just shows he is out of touch and that he forms his political beliefs not only on stereotypes but also on the backs of others.
CIF,
I am wondering, how many gay people would you call close friends?
Wolverine,
I am sorry to hear about your daughters experience. How did you follow up on it?
The implication behind this question is of course that I would change my opinion if I have gay friends. I am happy to burst your bubble: the number is greater than zero.
Let me ask you a similarly insulting question. Do you have any practical experience at all that gives credibility to anything you say? Have you ever conducted a job interview? Have you written a Minority and Small Business Plan? Have you ever sat on a promotion board that had to meet minority goals? Have you ever tried to commercialize a patent? Have you ever witnessed real discrimination, e.g. in the Middle East?
Kelly, “real” instances of discrimination do not occur here in the US?
DG, you beat me to the punch. Why is US discrimination any less discriminating. The Middle East doesn’t own discrimination, although I will grant that it is very obnoxious when displayed in this country.
And actually, I think knowing people who are gay, in the flesh, does give one experiences and perhaps empathy that one would never otherwise have.
The difference is in scale and order of magnitude.
Wolverine, I didn’t read closely enough early this morning to realize the girl who was bullied was your daughter. Had I read more closely, I would not have been so cavalier in my response. I had the opposite situation happen to my daughter in public school. She was bullied in her high school by a volunteer because the woman knew she was my daughter and therefore had to be pro-choice. It was to the point where my husband and I went to school over it.
Some people are just jerks. I probably wouldn’t say how I felt about something if I were in class with a jerk. That is part of growing up. You decide what is more important to you….peace and quiet or speaking out. If you speak out, prepare for the consequences.
I never support bullying however.
Kelly, please elaborate.
Double whammy there. Gender and religion.
Good points Kelly. It all sounds good until you have to put it into action and sort people based on demographics. I’m human, their human but I have to label them to prove I’m being fair? When you are required to promote, hire and document how “fair” you are, it gradually breeds resentment. It has with me over the years. That is being honest. It’s like your morality and ethics have to be quantified and documented.
Regardless, Cuch needs to find a better cause to take on more wide reaching reform rather than teaching Virginians lessons in morality.. Why doesn’t he hammer down identity theft or reduced sentencing for rapists or is he preparing for more useful pursuits public religious displays, abortion……
Somewhere along the line I had someone offline ask me if I thought Cuccinelli hated gays. I don’t know. I don’t care. It isn’t the issue. He is perfectly within his rights to dislike gays or any other class of people from Danes to Catholics to Kurds to Polynesians. We all are. What we don’t have a right to do is discriminate against them. Back of the line, Swede just doesn’t cut it.
I have met gays I didn’t like. I have probably met everybodies I didn’t like. Irrelevant. I agree with Juturna that the AG should be paying closer attention to identity theft and early release of rapists.
he needs hide his culture warrior side while he is in office.
I have read through the comments and it’s nice to see diversity on the issue.
It’s just a shame that any group of people should be discriminated against(just think the next group could be Erudite Bloggers!)
It very well could be, Bear. Or it could be people who like Wild Turkey. Once a Virginian, always Virginian.
Suggest a reading of the blog “Too Conservative” (that
lives up to its name) for a good posting on the negative impact of
Cooch’s fiasco written from the viewpoint of a strong conservative
Republican. Our new AG has ticked off almost everyone.
Kelly,
So, your gay friend(s), what is their reaction to Cuccinelli? Why is asking if you have friends who are gay insulting? What does conducting a job interview have to do with suggesting that if someone is gay they can be discriminated against? Does the same standard apply to people because of their religion, their skin color, or they physical disability? What is the difference between discriminating against someone who is gay and someone who is Christian or any other religion? What does the middle east have to do with anything? Do you believe we are a “color” blind society? Gender blind society? Are we leaps and bounds beyond other countries, well yes, of course, in Saudi Arabia women can’t even drive. But I do believe that being gay is the last of the groups that can be stigmatized without shame from many Americans.
I happen to believe that you judge people based on the “content of their character” and nothing else. Cuccinelli’s fascination with everything gay is simply misplaced given the seriousness of what the country/state/county is facing. I don’t disagree that people should be judged on the quality of their job and not given a pass because quotas need to met. THAT belief has nothing to do with what Cuccinelli continually espouses.
“It’s not that gay people are abhorrent, says Cuccinelli. Just their sex lives: “My view is that homosexual acts, not homosexuality, but homosexual acts are wrong. They’re intrinsically wrong. And I think in a natural law based country it’s appropriate to have policies that reflect that. … They don’t comport with natural law.”
Moon — Funny, but your para 2 in #75 described perfectly my own experiences at grad school on a major campus in the early 1970’s, right down to the LSD, absence of bras, and the constant street demonstrations. Of course, the university in question was private, not public.
Elena — My daughter learned a valuable lesson about the perils of leadership. At that time, she was looking at the possibility of a career in journalism or public relations. After being ridiculed over her religious beliefs (Catholic) by a professor for the first time in a seminar, she began investigating the attitudes of her fellow students. She found that a goodly number of them had belief systems similar to hers. They all decided to step up and defend their rights to express those beliefs without retribution. My daughter led the way. She was slammed by several of the professors. When she looked around for backup, she found that her fellow “believers” had been so frightened for their own academic standing by the nasty responses aimed at my daughter by those professors that they had lapsed into cowed silence. She found herself out there alone, like an 18-year-old kid stranded on a melting ice floe.
She decided then and there that American journalism was not for her and changed majors to something which would not penalize her for her religious faith. She never told her Dad about this until afterwards, knowing full well that he would have gone to that campus, taken one or more of those professors by the collars, and dragged them kicking and screaming to the university president’s office to ask for an explanation for all the tuition and other moneys being poured into the till of that university.
My daughter now has three young children of her own,. She and her Hispanic-American husband also adopted three more, all of them individuals of color. Two of them had been removed from their previous home by a court after being beaten and starved; and the third, a cute little guy, was saved from being aborted. She has told me she will never consent to her children attending her own alma mater in Virginia, partly because of her own experiences there and partly because of the current hedonistic atmosphere on campus as previously discussed on this blog. Adopting three kids has not been easy for her. I previously told this blog that one of the kids had been lured away by an “illegal” gangbanger, breaking her adoptive parents’ hearts. But this old Dad is proud as punch of his daughter. She is a conservative who talks the talk AND walks the walk.
Well, that would vary at different points in my life. Now granted that I may have known many folks who were gay and I had no idea (I don’t dwell on issues of race, gender, or sexual orientation like liberals do). I had many gay friends when I lived in Atlanta (one was my best friend for a couple of years…I lived in Marietta at the time). Two of my good friends in high school were gay (I suspected one, and was totally surprised about the other one). As you grow and move around the country, people come and go into and out of your life. Some were gay, some were not. It’s never been an issue for me.
Think of it this way. People succeed in spite of obstacles and adversity, not because they’ve had government clear a path for them. I understand that those who worship at the alter of entitlement won’t understand that, but you can only expect so much from champions of mediocrity.
How many gay close friends do you have? It’s the same as asking “how many black friends do you have? Oh, I have two more black friends than you, and that makes me the authority on black issues. How many gay friends do you have, Elena? What does it matter haw many gay, black, I don’t know, pick another pet minority friends anyone has? This is where conservatives and liberals don’t “get” each other. It’s not in a conservative’s nature to put these issues in the forefront, whereas liberals make careers out of class warfare and minority strife. Funny ole’ World, huh?
Capt, I had no idea you were from Atlanta. I lived in NE which was actually Dekalb Co. I attended Briarcliff High School Poor Richard also lived in that area for a while.
Ok..now that’s over.
I think what Elena is getting at is really not a head count of how many gays you have known but more about have you know gays or lesbians who you talked to about it on any kind of level that might lead to some empathy. Everyone here is acting like gays are in your face types of people who have made a choice to be gay.
The people I have known well who were gay and lesbian had a very difficult time and I can say that 100% of them remained closeted until much older because of discrimination and the ridicule by society. Removing that discrimination language can leave a perfect hard working gay or lesbian who is not closeted in a hostile work environment and lead to firing by a person hostile to sexual minority people.
Its easy to say toughen up if you are a majority…not so easy if you are in a minority position. I don’t really think it has anything to do with being liberal or conservative.
Wolverine, thanks for sharing your (her story). What a shame that people can’t disagree without being contentious. I don’t know why any instructor would comment on a student’s religion. That is horrible. I don’t care if they were snake handlers! I guess I just don’t think that one’s personal religion has any business in class unless it is a class in religious instruction or perhaps a private religious school.
I have had a life time of people all going rah rah rah on the cause (whatever the cause is) and speaking up, only to have others sit there and act like they don’t know what I am talking about. Grrrrr. I finally learned every dog for himself….but it took me decades to learn that. I got stung many times before I learned.
@Poor Richard
Thanks for mentioning that thread on Too Conservative. I agree. Excellent, although I don’t understand all the various cases mentioned.
http://www.tooconservative.com/?p=6601
You are right, PR. Too Conservative. 🙄
The author there brought up something that the captain and I sparred over. I think that Cuccinelli makes a huge mistake bringing out the Conservative Cavalry before the November election. There will be backlash in Virginia.
Capt. He is energizing the moderate and liberal base. Big time. Is that what you want?
“Posts 69 and 70….unusually weak material from RB.”
I love a challenge.
Next, Cucinelli is going to petition the governor to create a state commission on sodomy. 12 political contributors will meet for the better part of the year and study the issue and the ramifications. Field trips will be made to sites such as MVC and the Foxchase theatre in Alexandria. Excerpts from the commission’s report … “On inspection the object on the theatre floor turned out to be a heavily lubricated toothbrush. We bagged it for evidence and turned it over to the police. The perpetrator was never found.”
What are the ramifications of a society where homosexual acts are considered protected behavior? Will gays eventually infiltrate our schools? Our churches? Even the military?
The real danger in all of this, of course, is that some sodomites will accidentally rape angels and we will all be turned into pillars of salt.
Virgina right now is a cesspool … personal lubricants are being sold on open shelves … schoolchildren are becoming aware of the existence of homosexuality at younger and younger ages … if we are not careful, many of these children will grow up to become gay.
I say confiscate all the lubricants, don’t make it easy for them.
And boycott Johnson & Johnson.
Rick – your joke might be more serious than you think. I grew up in a mid-size community (not a small town). In the 70s Linda Lovelace and her notorious “film” became an issue when one of the local theaters decided to show it. The city council went as a group to see it at least three times trying to decide if it was obscene. The local news channel was there every time filming them entering and exiting the theater. Hilarious group of local numbskulls with nothing better to do for their constituents than “officially” watch that movie over and over!