The criticism about volunteering for Candidate Obama and Senator Webb seems rather bogus to me. What person in any grassroots movement hasn’t been involved with other campaigns. I would expect most people from the ‘other hot beverage’ group worked for their candidate. Just recently, in fact, some TPP in Massachusetts claimed credit for sending Senator Scott Brown to Washington.
I don’t see how nearly 100,000 people on face book can be considered a top down movement. It sounds to me like people are finding their regional niche and going for it. Hopefully out of all of this, people in various locations will meet other people who are willing to run for local office. Throwing the bums out starts at home.
Good for those who are making their voices heard. The political parties need to listen carefully to the constituents. Meanwhile, Annabel, you sounded great! Keep up the good work.
I’m all for engaged citizens. So, I wish Ms. Park well on this.
Sides, if all of the beverage parties fail. The alternative is simple – we set up a gallows in front of Congress as a reminder that they are our represenatives and not our leaders.
Democrat or Republicans… We’re headed in the wrong direction and the People need to remind them of that through the political process.
Face-to-face interaction is far more productive than online griping and whining. Good for the coffee party, a welcome alternative to the Tea party freakshow of weirdos and goons.
I take it from your comments that you aren’t from this country, marinm. Killing Congressmen is not how we do things in this country, my good man. We hold our elected officials accountable through this electorial process. This a’int Africa. If you don’t respect the democratic process in this country, then go back to wherever you came from.
Ladies and Gentlemen….may I present to you….a liberal.
Listen up, tons of fun. You don’t tell anybody where to go. marinm is right, you are wrong, end of story. I know it’s difficult when jokes fly right over your head all the time, but there’s no need to start “throwing your weight around”.
@marinm
The problem is, Marin, some people really believe this. http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_iwg39S4kKiE/S46JQRkN88I/AAAAAAAAGnk/dp_JOt3iJfY/s1600-h/We+came+here+unarmed.jpg
Captain, you say ‘liberal’ like I would say ‘child molester.’ It’s ok to be a liberal.
Not that I am excusing it, but conservatives often tell anyone who isn’t a conservative ‘if you don’t like it here then leave.’ I am glad to hear a conservative bear down on statements like those.
Ok, time to take off the love beads, the head band and the fringed jacket and grow-up. We are well past the love it or leave it days. Now, who do you think is more apt to release a child molesterer back into the general population a conservative judge or a “liberal” one. Nough said.
@PWC Taxpayer
Are you saying liberals support child molesters?
I would probably not make a sweeping generalization. I would hope no one would release a child molester back in to the neighborhood.
I actually don’t think that tax’s statement about the love beads and and fringed jacket is a bit less offensive. Fringed jacket? I can’t even picture that. And grow up? Bwaaaahahahahahahaha.
I wish I had a fringed jacket.
I wish I could picture one.
I’m for engaged citizens, too. Only a few citizens came forward to comment on the City Manager’s budget at the council meeting last night, yet so many will complain afterwards when the Council adopts it.
The two that spoke about the Manassas Museum cuts were the same ones that commented against cuts in previous years.
I think coming out to talk over coffee will empower more people to get involved and to find creative solutions.
And this really helps move a discussion along when posts like this are made….
Neat sign. Makes sense to me. Now, don’t expect me to fly into an IRS building but the Jeffersonian (you can make fun of Conservatives on this point as Jeffy was daddy of the Democrat party) ideal that if the government doesn’t do what it’s supposed to do you just start over – is alive and well all these many years after those really smart guys signed this nation into being.
Starry, I was made in the USA from Central American parts. 😉
And, while I didn’t have to point this out to anyone else – do take note that I never made a threat and I even pointed out that we have to work through the political process.
I think from your words, you have clearly demonstrated with is wrong with politics in America. Maybe this isn’t the right place for you to blog. I am not saying you can’t post, but that kind of unfounded statement is simply inappropriate and does nothing to further real meaningful conversations.
Elena, You mean generalizations such as; “Not that I am excusing it, but conservatives often tell anyone who isn’t a conservative ‘if you don’t like it here then leave.’
Maybe it would be possible to actually discuss the CNN piece. The idea that Annabel is an operative is just silly. Do we check our freedoms at the door when we engage citizen activism? She posted on facebook and now, a mere month later, there over 100,000 members. Lets talk about the message of the Coffee Party, the message that we should debate with civilty and facts. The idea that just because I believe that people should not be allowed to die because they don’t have insurance does not make me a Marxist. I don’t believe on side has all the answers, I do honestly believe that the best solutions come through vigorous discussion, not attacks. No one can solve problems when they are yelling and screaming.
Excellent points Cindy.
Why were they meeting on a Sunday night? That sounds like a strange time and a time not to get the best turnout.
How about if we just stay on your behavior and not deflect the point I was making to you. You suggested that liberals don’t care about child molestors, your point is insulting and unfounded.
@Elena
Never said that – and I think you know it.
@Elena
Does sound like I rang your liberal bell a little close to home though.
I have to say, the grassroots participants come with high-tech tools — the “Coffee Sphere” on http://www.CoffeePartyUSA.com is not only great at helping you look at where you stand, but it correctly places you in the center of making action happen. That’s the model I learned from John McKnight in recognizing your resources from the inside out to make neighborhood improvement http://www.northwestern.edu/ipr/publications/community/buildingblurb.html
@Moon-howler The Manassas City Council meeting was last night – Monday. You must be having a Tuesday Monday, M-H.
Starryflights,
I agree with your premise that suggesting we hang nooses in front of Congress, given the tone of todays environment, is in incredibly poor taste. However, I also don’t think it’s helpful to tell people to “go back” anywhere. We all have a vested interest in making this the best country. I think there is a fringe of the tea party that is simply offensive to me.
The idea that Obama is in any way like Hitler makes my blood boil, I am so disgusted and that people like Glenn Beck repeat that kind of stupidity is doubly infuriating. However, there are ways to communicate that can better negate those kinds of statements. We don’t want to give fuel to the small fringes, we want to uplift the silent majority to find their voices and start talking about solutions that involve reasonable debate. There are people who have credible concerns and the tea party has been their only outlet.
What are you implying?
I don’t see anyone objecting to what StarryFlights said. That’s very interesting and very telling, if you ask me… That was just as insulting to people (not me) who are members of the Tea Party.
I notice a trend as always – it’s OK for derogatory remarks to be made by one side, but not the other side. I’m not saying it is OK for either side to make them, but that’s been the pattern here.
And one side will purposely post something stupid the other side says (such as a stupid sign) but any attempt to point out the other side did something equally stupid is rejected.
It’s an interesting study in psychology here on this blog. I find it fascinating.
Tax, you need to develop some better blog manners here. I don’t care much for the disrespectful tone being used.
Elena – Please, Beck has done more to make the debate more cerebral than any other talking head. He never called Obama the totalitarian Hitler or a nazi. He has been trying to define the terms of the debate. Obama is not a socialist – socialists do not advocate government takeovers of heavy industry – they are just craddle to grave entilement crazy (think Sweden). Facists take over heavy industry (and today our big financial houses and markets) and communists take over all private enterprise. Beck did not invoke the totalitarianism of the nazi party or its horrors. Geez! Read your post and I think you will find that trying to call Beck out that way is exactly what you are complaining about.
I will ask again, what are you implying?
I am going to defend Starry flights. Last summer I saw a lot of weirdos and goons out there shouting at elected officials and screaming over top of everyone else. I commented on here about them on occassion. I saw people with tea bags stapled to their hats and others in weird costumes. Randall Terry, my unfavorite goon of all time was out at one of them. Goons and weirdos? You tell me.
Another reason I am going to defend Starry flights is because the conservatives on this blog pretty much get to say what they want. Slowpoke in particular gets defended, by me as a matter of fact. People have said a lot worse things that goons and weirdos.
GR has not said those things…but other folks have made some fairly outlandish comments also…like love beads and fringe which I am still trying to picture. Starry doesn’t have to behave and everyone else gets a pass. That isn’t fair.
Marin, you crack me up, made in the USA from Central American parts. How funny! I think you probably bring a good perspective on that subject to this blog, by the way.
I made that comment and without apology. I have heard it time and time again. I don’t really need to explain it. However, Elena did not say it. I did.
I most definitely am having a Monday Tuesday. Geez. It is like yesterday disappeared. I was thinking about TV shows. duh me.
At the risk of making additional historic generalizations, liberals are famously soft on crime, famously anti-defense, famously paternalistic, famously against business or reliance on the free enterprise system (preferring government run options), famously big on the size of Government and its intervention in business and just about everything else. Why, what did you think I implied – that all liberals are “child molestors,? Now, if that is what you are aserting then you might want to re-read it and stop with the the cheap tricks designed to demean the alternaternative views expressed on this blog.
You have yet to respond over the implication that liberal judges don’t care about child molestors. Your statement is inflammatory, insulting, devisive, and not meant to invite credible debate. “nough said”
Tax, weren’t you the one who came on here and wanted the city and PWC to pick up the initial bill for the sesquicentennial or do I have you confused with someone else? Apologies in advance if I have confused you with another similar moniker.
I’m actually not offended with what Starry said. If his only arguement is akin to if you don’t love this country get out – than I think I’m ok. 😉
People with any reasoning skill will look past that point and move on to something with more substance.
And, of course he has the freedom in this country to say almost anything he wants about someone else – and I will defend that. Liberal, socialist, commie, RINO, republican.. They all have room at the table of free speech and free expression.
I’ll quote something from a very liberal movie (that I like minus the insane idea of banning guns). Bonus points for people who can figure the movie out.
America isn’t easy. America is advanced citizenship. You gotta want it bad, ’cause it’s gonna put up a fight. It’s gonna say “You want free speech? Let’s see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who’s standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours. You want to claim this land as the land of the free? Then the symbol of your country can’t just be a flag; the symbol also has to be one of its citizens exercising his right to burn that flag in protest. Show me that, defend that, celebrate that in your classrooms. Then, you can stand up and sing about the “land of the free”.
Back to the topic, the idea that legislators need to sit down and discuss legislation over tea and crumpets (or coffee!! hehe) as they smoke a peace pipe and talk in glowing terms to each other so that our society can progress ..just doesn’t make sense to me. TEA party aside, I *want* British Parlament theatrics in Congress. I want people throwing chairs at each other. I want Senators to get into each others faces and argue until they’re blue. I want that because it means there is passion in the hearts of our Statesmen. That whatever legislation they’re moving isn’t just about moving the package but because they think it’s a great idea – the best idea ever thought of – not simply an excuse to get re-elected.
Lastly, I wanted to share a story that ran the other day in the Telegraph titled, The end of the road for Obama. While some compare him to Hitler (President Obama frankly isn’t that bright) I just don’t think the comparison sticks. A comparison to Jimmy Carter does. Anyways, the Telegraph paints a VERY scathing indictment on our President so much so that I frankly – as an American – for the first time felt a sense of sadness that we’ve pushed the American experiment to a point where even other countries now feel sorry for us. That idea is infuriating to me — that any other country would ever look down upon us.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/7396358/The-end-of-the-road-for-Barack-Obama.html
Link to the convention bureau’s new visitor’s guide with planned 2010 county events for the “sesqui” as Sharon Cavileer called it at last night’s Manassas City Council meeting:
http://www.visitpwc.com/2010_visitorsguide/PWCM10_VISITORS_GUIDE.pdf
Marin, I actually find what you said offensive. Not in the ‘don’t say that on the blog’ way of being offensive but just offensive. I don’t want to live in a country where lawmakers shoot each other or behave like Bobby Knight or the British Parliament.
I want to live in a country where people sit down and talk out differences and arrive at good government through compromise. I want our lawmakers to be ladies and gentlemen and respectful of others’ opinions while upholding their own values. However, their own values must not always be turned into national policy.
I do not think saying the president of the United States, whether that person is Jimmy Carter, George Bush or Barack Obama is stupid is acceptable. I also do not think you are in any position to evaluate their intelligence. The metrics used in evaluating intelligences simply cannot be done from afar.
It is really somewhat humorous as I sit here reading some posts that are in a thread about civility and discussion. I understand where GR is coming from when it was pointed out that namecalling does not further a conversation in any meaningful way. But then a few people came to the defense of the namecaller.
And one other irk that I have is the occasional juvenile posts that call people Obummer or even Kookanelli. Folks, that is really elementary school or perhaps even middle school.
Can we talk about civility in uncivil terms?
That would be kookoonelli. [hands on hips]
And your point has been taken. However, there is a 2 way street out there. People like Beck, Kucinach, Cuccinelli and those who operate outside the mainstream will acquire nicknames. When a host of a show watched by millions likens the President of the United States to Adolph Hitler, there’s a problem.
Rez, if you are criticizing me for coming to the defense of Starry Flights who said ‘goons and weirdos’ (not referring to people here) please also note when I have defended people here when half the blog was crawling on them. I think Slowpoke and Second Alamo can both attest to the fact that I have defended them.
I stand by my defense of Starry Flights. He/she is free to think that some people are goons and weirdos. How does that differ from speaking of some criminals as thugs? The politically correct train is only going to pull but so far into the station here.
PWC,
I guess you have fallen into the trap of demoralizing your fellow citizens for finding solutions through a different lens. That’s too bad. I believe there are good ideas from both parties and although I see them through my life experiences, I would not denegrade someone else in the same way you have denegraded all “liberals”. We all have our place AND voice in creating comprehensive solutions. I guarantee you I could come up with lots of immature jabs at conservative/republicans, but why would I do that? I truly do believe that most long term solutions are found in the middle. There are some issues that truly are black and white, but most are gray.
No apology required. And as it was you continue to misrepresent the proposal.
I was merely pointing out an opinion and supporting GR. I am also not very politically correct–but I do try to treat people with respect.
It is your right to stand by your defense all you want, it does not change the fact that I was offended myself by the earlier comments about “goons and weirdos”. Painting a group with a broad brush like that is pretty close to activity most should avoid, especially if they were raised to respect others and their opinions.
So I understand this right–it is okay to brand some people in such a manner but it isn’t allright to brand others without taking offense and saying something like “but you don’t know them so how can you say that”? If you can’t see the issue that I raised, then I guess I just am not communicating it properly.
it would have been perfectly acceptable to say that some people last summer acted in xxxx manner. I would have agreed with StarryFlights entirely because some people did act that way. But to demonize a group with some bad actors and others that may have just been angry is wrong no matter who says it.
And it certainly is not in keeping with the purpose of this thread about an organization that is hoping to open dialogue in a civil manner.
Rez,
I don’t think Moon-Howler is suggesting it’s productive to go back and forth, but I think M-H is saying the ball has been in the other court for a very long time. On some level, many see the behavior of those people as actually having influence over policy. For me, that is as wrong as the very fringe left who accused President Bush of orchestrating 9-11. I don’t think it’s that there are people that believe the lies about Obama and his intentions, its that they have actually influenced my government. From my perspective, the sane voices of the TEA party were drowned out by the overwhelming presense of the chants of socialism and death panels. I am interested in dialogue, I do believe that people, of varying opinions, should feel represented by their government, but the attacks against Obama reminds of the visceral hate towards Clinton on steroids.
And if I went back through the threads and pulled up names, is there any one of you here that can honestly say you haven’t taken a cheap shot or referred to someone or something other than by its proper name? I don’t think so.
Actually, Starry Flights unintentionally provided a discussion of civil debate.
Why is it that no one puts up a hue and cry when liberals are spoken of in what many regard as uncivil terms? I never see those here. All I see are people getting upset over whatever is said about the TTP. <---- Tea Party People. Ooops! Is that offensive? The irony is, those who have identified themselves as TTP out there are slinging insults at the President, Congress and anyone who doesn't think like they do a mile a minute. They get no special treatment from me. If they dish it out, they need to learn to take it. Same with CPP.
Well, I don’t agree with the attacks on any President and what you state is certainly a concern. I can vehemently disagree with the policies of the President if I think it is necessary.
Yes, it has been a year that the President has had to listen to some fringe people. But you know something, I listened to some people for 8 years about the “conservative” Supreme Court giving George Bush the election and that he “stole” it. Sure does engender confidence in our chief executive. (By the way, unless people have forgotten, the vote was 7-2 that Florida violated the US Constitution. It was only close for the remedy to use.) Not exactly a strictly conservative opinion on the court.
Criticizing an administration over decisions and policies are perfectly appropriate but questioning intelligence because of misspoken words (yes both Bush and Obama) is not. And when people disagree properly with a President’s policies and decisions and are branded “racist” is also demonizing. There is no question that there have been some racial depictions but it is abhorrent that these imbecilic depictions can be used to paint all that disagree.
Look, I know that you and Wolfie and probably a few others are friends but when someone says something, a number of people come to the “defense”. I have not found Wolfie nor you to be incapable of putting forth your own arguments in a coherent manner. To some of us, it starts to sound like a us vs. them mentality.
This was written merely to state a feeling that comes to some of us it seems. Not looking for an apology nor am I criticizing. I have been told before that if I don’t like what is being said on the board, I am free to leave–hmmmm, sounds like a post above.
And I agree that it is productive to go back and forth, but one should not excuse behavior of name calling that is boorish in the least. But I surmise that I am the only one to see the irony that this thread about a civil organization started with that.