REMINDER
The Prince William County, VA Coffee Party will hold its kick-off meeting on National Coffee Party Day, March 13th, 2010, from 10:00 to 11:00 A.M. The kick-off meeting will be held at the Haymarket Town Hall. The address is:
15000 Washington Street
Haymarket, VA 20169-2975
(703) 754-4816
To register for this event, please go to the Prince William County Coffee Party facebook page or www.coffeepartyusa.com For more information about the lovely town of Haymarket, please visit www.townofhaymarket.org.
Best of luck, coffee partiers. Good to see citizens engaged and behaving in a civilized manner, unlike their Tea party counterparts who act like Neanderthals. Make mine a latte!
I am sure they would like for you to join them, Starry.
I see someone can’t resist showing they aren’t acting too civilized by making a statement wishing good luck to the coffee party members, by tossing in a completely unnecessary jab at the opposite side. Much has been said here about making generalizations about groups of people – but here one is, right in the first post on this thread! Makes one wonder how “civilized” some of the coffee party sympathizers are. Some of those people are the first to express outrage at such generalizations!
GR, is it a generalization if there are many instances of a certain behavior? I don’t know. I am sitting here listening to the news…finally had to turn the sound down because it was just getting on my last nerve…but I kept hearing that there are going to be repeats of last summer with irate citizens. I will be honest. I thought exactly what Starry wrote.
Then I thought that if the irate citizens didn’t display that type of behavior, then they would totally lose their effectiveness at scaring and intimidating lawmakers. Frankly, writing letters, peacefully demonstrating and acting reasonable about something you like or don’t like loses its punch. Standing up and acting like an enraged voter and stirring up everyone else, whipping them into a mild frenzy is actually very effective.
You could line up people who had similar political opinion from one end of Constitution Avenue to the other and I doubt that it would pack anywhere near as much of a wallop as a few hundred screaming and shouting people with signs about how disgruntled they are.
Please tell me I am wrong. Peaceful protest and solutions just aren’t contagious. Screaming, yelling and rage are.
I know, but it seemed if you want a constructive dialog – this thread was advertising a Coffee Party Meeting. Right away out of the gate – the first post is one that uses that as a way of once again attacking the Tea Party.
So, am I to conclude that the Coffee Party exists to attack the Tea Party? That is what the first poster evidently wants me to believe.
I don’t like extremists on either side. It seems to me, the Coffee Party may be trying to place itself on the other end of the spectrum from the Tea Party. If so, it is just as bad.
That is the conclusion I might be forced to draw from the first poster. My hope is the first poster is not representative of Coffee Party members, and does not speak for the Coffee Party. I would further hope the Coffee Party would disavow this kind of stuff.
So, it seems from that, I should maybe draw the conclusion that the Coffee Party won’t be effective if it takes the “peaceful, civilized route”. I am hopeful that’s what it will do, and try to present its ideas without attacking the other side, or by becoming enraged like the other side is sort of portrayed. I’m not sure that portrayal is totally accurate – the press would like you to believe the Tea Party is entirely about rage and bad behavior – and I don’t believe everything the press says – and I’ve never been to a Tea Party gathering. I don’t believe much I see on TV or in the press – and I could take a TV camera to any political gathering and probably selectively shoot things to make it look like an angry mob. No one has convinced me that there aren’t a large proportion of Tea Party members who are rational, civilized, etc. I know, the press wants me to believe that 99% of the Tea Party members are a violent mob. The first poster here wants me to believe that too, actually.
Also, I dislike extremists on both sides. The Tea Party does sort of seem to be the extreme on one side. No one has convinced me yet that the Coffee Party isn’t that way on the opposite side. Some of the alleged (and I say alleged) tweets that one of the party’s possible founders seems to have posted, to me represent extremist thinking on that side. Maybe I’m 100% off about that, but I wouldn’t mind seeing someone disavow some of those extreme things that were allegedly said, if indeed they weren’t true.
And by the way – I’ve looked at the Coffee Party website – to be honest I’m not sure what to make of it. I’m not left with a clear impression of what it really is or stands for.
But, I often find that anything that is a reaction to something else – which the Coffee Party on its website mentions the Tea Party in various places – tends to attract an opposing crowd on the same extreme as what it is a reaction too. Kind of like the laws of physics, basically.
I could cite some examples of this I’ve observed in the past, but I won’t.
And the Coffee Part website forum is very illuminating. I see suggestions to not allow Tea Party members to post on forums, but at the same time suggestions for Coffee Party members to go to Tea Party websites and post on their forums. Kind of seems contradictory?
I’ve seen several posts comparing Tea Party members to KKK members. I find it all fascinating.
Altogether, it is very unclear just what the Coffee Party is. But I’ll tell you what – comparing Tea Party members to KKK members – that sounds a lot like what used to go on here in PWC comparing members of a certain website or people who believed a certain thing, to members of a certain political party which did not originate here in the USA. Enough said. That was ridiculous/preposterous then (but some people still truly believe that apparently) and comparing Tea Party members to KKK members is preposterous now!
@ #5 comment-I don’t know. I didn’t get the impression Starry is a member of the coffee party or that he/she plans to become one.
I certainly don’t think that one group should be allowed to act out and the other group held to some other standard.
And for the record, I just provide space. I am not a member of either hot beverage group. I like coke and margaritas and scotch, just not mixed together.
I can’t address what goes on on the website. don’t they get tweets from all over?
I expect that lots of people are reacting to what they see the other beverage doing. Probably only those who seriously want dialogue will come out to the meet ups. Everyone else is blowing off steam. Maybe Al will address some of your concerns. I have sent out an all call for him.
I am just not going to speak for that organization because I don’t know and I am not a member. I provide them with ad space as long as they aren’t throwing pies at people. 😉
Actually, you know what? I tend to think I have no more in common with the Coffee Party than I do with the Tea Party – so really my opinion doesn’t matter. I suspect I’ll sit back and watch the two of them battle it out with each other – or ignore each other – depending on what course things take. It will be interesting though to see what happens…
In fairness, if Ann Coulter were the recipient of pie in the face, I would not care.
Also, Elena is involved with the Saturday meeting. She might be able to address your concerns also.
I will say this on my own behalf though, I think that the behavior is part of what got political attention. It reminds me of the Jacksonian crowd. I would hope that the Coffee Party would be a backlash in the capacity of ‘you don’t speak for me.’
I am at a ‘watch’ stage myself. When people only have x amount of time, sometimes watch is as good as it gets.
Just to clarify – there’s a forum on there – and it seems to have some interesting posts. Now, those posts may or may not be representative of the majority of Coffee Party members. But, I found a number of posts comparing Tea Party members to KKK members, about not wanting to let Tea Party members post on Coffee Party website forums, but at the same time encouraging Coffee Party members to go on Tea Party website forums and “challenge them”, etc. etc.
Again, it really doesn’t matter what I think, as I find myself in the middle and not really interested in becoming a member of either the Coffee Party or the Tea Party.
And I get that StarryFlights isn’t a member of the Coffee Party nor does that person speak for it – I just found it interesting that this thread was kicked off with the first post being yet another attack on the Tea Party – which gets kind of repetitive and non-productive.
Anyway, I’ve wasted enough space here and really diverted this thread from what it should be – just an announcement of the Coffee Party’s first local meeting. So, I’m not going to bother to write anymore here – again my opinion doesn’t matter since I don’t intend to be a member of the Coffee Party – anymore than I intend to be a member of the Tea Party. I just find that I think a lot of comments about the Tea Party seem to be very exaggerated – and I know the press has an agenda to paint the Tea Party as completely out of control, angry people – and I often have found the press loves to distort things. Any subject I know a lot about – the press gets it completely wrong. Maybe they are right about the Tea Party, but I tend to think from my own experiences – they are probably exaggerating/distorting things to a huge extent.
I meant to say I’m not going to write anymore here on this thread – I can see reading what I wrote maybe made it sound like I’m not going to write anymore on the blog – that wasn’t what I meant.
I missed that part so I didn’t think that. I am multi-tasking at the moment which you probably figured out. The Coffee Party website is just one more think I can’t keep up with.
Idon’t like KKK, Nazi and all that thrown at anyone. I do occassionally do a little Taliban bantering though…when people want to make their religious beliefs policy.
Hell man, the Tignanello purses are on QVC.
I’m multi-tasking too of course. Yeah, I don’t like any of those terms mentioned above thrown at people. It is a huge difference about how the real members of those groups behaved compared to how anyone in the present day here in PWC at least is behaving.
I only looked at the Coffee Party website for the first time today, and multitasked while doing so, but I read fast so skimmed through a lot of it in a short period of time. I just found too many instances of odd stuff in the forum – but those posters may not be representative of the party as a whole. I was just alarmed at finding several ones comparing Tea Party to groups like KKK (two mentioned KKK specifically) and the other examples I provided. And, I really upon reading the main website – still can’t figure out what the Coffee Party is about exactly – but there are references to it being a reaction to the Tea Party in more than just a few places.
Well, I’m just going to sit back and see what becomes of the Coffee Party and how it presents itself to the public – and see what happens. I can’t think of myself going to a Coffee Party meeting anymore than I can think of myself going to a Tea Party meeting – so that’s kind of where I’m at with the whole thing.
Just don’t spend too much money on that QVC stuff! Kind of like me telling myself not spending too much money on electronics or DVD’s or things like that – not much chance of that happening…
Or like telling you not to order an Ipad…snicker. I only bought one. I held back. Self control. Netflix has helped with the dvd urges.
I’m looking forward to our first coffee party. Frankly, we won’t know what wa are about until our first meeting, this is just an alternative place for folks to self-organize and express their opinions. “One size doesn’t fit all”. Some folks will, for whatever reason, go elsewhere. Th(‘s ok. Sooner or later, I would like to talk to other groups to see where we agree.
Personally, I’m interested in compromise… And am dissatisfied with both parties for not being able to get out of the edges on issues. That’s why I’m in this game. I’m guessing I’m not alone.
If this is the level of intolerance acceptable to the Coffee Party.. I think I’ll just stay home. I’ve been debating with myself on showing up (even if I disagree with 90% of what they’re saying its always good to hear the other side of a debate) but if other viewpoints aren’t welcome. I’ll just work my honey-do list.
From my understanding, the Coffee Party is just a rallying point for encouraging people to get out and get involved in their communities. I’m going to the meeting on Saturday with an open mind. When I became a “member” on Facebook, they asked me to sign a civility pledge. I did, so I apologize in advance for the following catty remark:
For those who know what Tignanello purses are, here’s a local blog for you:
http://realhousewivesofpwcounty.blogspot.com/ Meow.
Me, I’m just getting dry wall fixed today where my teenage son’s butt went through the plaster. Don’t ask. Sigh.
You know I’m thinking about the iPad – probably 99% chance I’m going to order one tomorrow…
Compromise is good, and I hope that’s what the Coffee Party will represent. It’s just some of the other people involved on the website, don’t necessarily seem to be about compromise. I guess it will be interesting to see if that view prevails (compromise) and I hope it will.
Same here – Netflix has probably saved me a small fortune on DVD’s!
Cindy, Satan get behind me. Ok, I ordered 2. You won’t even believe the justification…
I also like Stone Mountain..probably even better.
Gainesville, I want a full printable report when that new ipad arrives.
Marin, you should go. Why would you listen to someone who isn’t even a part of something. Listen to Al and and Elena. They are organizing it. I have never known either of them to be uncivil. Sit down with them face to face. If they or their ideas aren’t to your liking, then excuse yourself. No harm no foul. But don’t listen to someone not even involved.
I feel the need to go on further. I was talking to Gainesville and I couldn’t respond to some of his questions and statements. I dashed off an email to Al because he is one of the grassroots organizers, as you all know. So Al arrived to answer questions.
I am not going to answer for someone else. I am not main player here. but…I don’t know how a group can be judged locally when they haven’t even met. There are always a bunch of yahoos online saying stupid stuff. You should see the crap that I don’t let through because it is non-productive junk, just to be blunt.
I would expect the coffee party website to get lots of hits like that. And there will always be those with opposing points of view planting stuff. I think they deserve a chance. If you see them standing on a street corner saying to crown Obama King of America and to neuter McDonnell, then grouse and say they are idiots..but lets let them meet before we decide they are thugs and moon-bats.
My congratulations to Starryflights for another job well done in the area of name-calling. Every time Starryflights gives us something like #1 above, conservatives like myself get another strong indication of why this battle is so critical. At some point, we should consider giving Starryflights a medal or something for his recruitment and incentive efforts on our behalf.
Will do – assuming I actually order it (but 99% chance that I will).
Thanks – I appreciate your getting Al to come here and post – as those of us on the outside can only speculate – and I’m sure some of that speculation (some of my speculation) isn’t accurate.
@cindy b
Thanks, Cindy… that’s the goal. You can’t meet in the middle if folks don’t meet there from both sides.
Tomorrow is a kick-off. We simply want to see who shows up (vice becomes a facebook friend) and ask them what they want to do. We have some suggestions because we have been watching other Coffee Party groups; however, no “orders”.
I’m tired of hearing both political parties argue and society taking sides on either end. I believe that there are folks on both sides who want to get past the “paralysis” phase and move on to the “compromise” phase so we can start solving real problems.
It’s a scary world out there… I really hope it doesn’t take another 9/11 to make us forget our differences and think like Americans… again.
Now that was funny – but actually with everything you just said.
Somehow I thought I typed the following:
Now that was funny – but actually I agree with everything you just said.
I am not sure what happened to the phrase “I agree” in the above post! Without those two words – the sentence doesn’t even make any sense!
That also works in reverse….re Starry being a recruiter. It pushes people like me in the other direction to see all the TPP antics and to hear most of the rhetoric on Faux News.
The die-hard conservatives/Republicans and the die-hard liberals/Democrats are not going to change. Either side would vote for Satan if he belonged to the right party. It is the Independent centrists (either side of the fulcrum) that always tip the scales. All someone like Streisand or Hannity does to someone like me is push us away. Right now, Hannity has had a far bigger mouth…or at least Streisand isn’t in my living room.
GR, it looks like we will forever be cancelling each other out…and neither one of us is extremist that I can tell. Well.. there are some areas I wont cave on…reproductive issues and I would never agree to do away with the death penalty. But other than that…
I don’t have a strong opinion on reproductive issues one way or the other – but that has a lot to do with the fact I’m not a woman. I’m with you on the death penalty though – I think there’s a certain very small subset of society – that the death penalty is very applicable to.
Otherwise, I like to believe while I lean to the conservative side, I’m not in any way out there with the extremists of that side. I dislike them just as much as I dislike the extremists on the left. Those are indeed the ones who as you say would elect Satan if he were a member of their party.
I resemble that remark about Satan! We are not pleased. Fact is that the “Independent centrists” or “moderates”, if you please, never seem to get moving on anything unless the flanks on one side or the other force them into action. That was the main purpose of Patrick Henry’s speech to the Burgesses in Richmond. The Sons of Liberty in Boston…Lexington…Concord. And the Virginians sitting on their asses waiting to see which way the wind was blowing. I quote Mr. Henry: “Our bretheren are already in the field. Why stand we here idle?”
And then there was the British Reform Act of 1832 which for the first time opened political power to someone other than the upper classes. That didn’t come about because a bunch of political moderates decided that justice was in order. It came about because the radical Luddites and later the radical Chartists, along with memories of the aftermath of the French Revolution, scared the pants off Whig Prime Minister Lord Grey and King William III.
And then there were the popular uprisings in Europe in 1848. The spectacle of the Prussian army battling angry citizens in the streets of Berlin caused Prussia to go from being the last feudal state in Europe in the early 19th century to being more liberal in its legislative representation than even the British with the Reform Bill of 1832. Those clashes also caused a very stubborn king in neighboring Holland to go from being conservative to being liberal virtually overnight. That included a new liberal constitution to avoid in The Hague and Amsterdam what was being seen in the streets of Berlin.
Gotta hand it to the so-called “fringes.” You may not like what you see but you have to admit that they do serve to get the national juices moving under duress.
BTW, note for Elena from Patrick Henry’s speech in Richmond: “There is a just God who presides over the destinies of nations and who will raise up friends to fight our battles for us.”
We do-nothing moderates vote and that is what should be concerning you first-over-the-hill folks.
As as for the getting the national juices moving under duress, one could say something similar about Al Qaeda or the Japanese at Pearl Harbor in 1941.
I would prefer that the fringe stay fringe.
I see Wolverine’s point about those on the fringes being the ones who get everyone motivated. It is an interesting point that I’ll have to think about.
It may depend on what you mean by “fringe”. My definition might be different than other people’s. My definition of fringe may only include people way out on the extremes, compared to what other people define as “fringe”. I’m not sure for example, I would include most people in the Tea Party as being on the “fringe” – as much as the press likes to paint it that way.
I agree Gainesville. re fringe. I am sure not everyone is, however.
I heard something about the Coffee Party on Foxie News this morning…and I fell back asleep before I heard the real report. Did anyone else out there actually hear it?
GR, there are “fringes” which are clearly “fringes” and then there are “fringes” which are misunderstood and mislabeled. I opined previously on this blog that the ‘Tea Party” movement in toto is mostly a “state of mind” and not truly an organized entity, and I put myself in that category. It doesn’t want to tear this country down. It wants to fix it. That “state of mind” is big and getting bigger, and it is definitely not “fringe.” Even the wiser among the pundits and pollsters attached to the Dem side of the spectrum are now publishing warning pieces about the dangers facing the Dems in November, especially as a result of the shenanigans in the Washington fight over the current health care reform bills, which are clearly not favored by nearly 60 percent of the citizens. An even bigger elephant in the room is the Washington failure to get those unemployment numbers to move substantially despite multi-billion dollar stimulus bills.
That particular “fringe”, if one must persist in such terminology, has begun to adopt David Gergen’s view that Washington politics have indeed become a “freak show” in which the people themselves are getting shut out by the gigantic but somewhat blind and apparently stupid egos on both sides of the aisle. Washington is beginning to look like a bunch of angry, clawing tomcats in a gunny sack; and many Americans are now of a mind to toss the whole sack into the river and start over. 2010 may prove to be a bright day for some “Mr. Smiths” out there.
On the other hand, I wouldn’t be caught dead marching in the street wearing a hat with tea bags suspended from it or carrying a sign with a picture of Obama and a swastika. The difference between that type of Tea Partier and myself is the difference between the Sons of Liberty and the Committees of Correspondence. Yet it is invariable that the opposition will try to slam me in there with those other guys. Big mistake. I am among those patiently waiting over the crest of the hill, watching the opposition focus mistakenly on the other “fringe.” Sort of like seeing the over-enthusiastic Redcoat cavalry charging what appeared to be a disorganized and weakening frontline of American militia at Cowpens, not realizing until too late that Col. William Washington and his Continental Light Dragoons were waiting for them just out of sight .
That’s a very good post Wolverine. I have to say, I really agree with all of it. And what you said about the Tea Party being a “state of mind” and not truly an entity, make sense to me.
Anyway, I like how you talked about “fringe” and I really can’t disagree with any of that.
I also wouldn’t ever even think of wearing a hat with tea bags on it, or a carrying a picture of Obama and a swastika (and I thought all of that stuff is beyond stupid – but then again there’s lots of people who like to evoke that imagery – even for purposes of making certain PWC officials look to be associated with the swastika). Anyone who goes out of his/her way to evoke the swastika in terms of associating it with some public figure – I usually define as being out there on the “fringe” as it were.
I believe Ms. Elena will provide a respectful response giving the other point of view as seen from people with the Coffee Party state of mind.
Unfortunately, the Tea Party movement was seized and taken over by people who just are not seen as mainstream. I think you have many valid points, Wolverine and I certainly don’t lump you in with some of the actors I have seen on TV and in video. How do well meaning dignified people have their voices heard when mob rule has seized control? perhaps that impression isn’t even true now but first impressions are often lasting impressions.
I don’t know the answer. That is why I am sitting back and watching.
I am not sure what my state of mind is now. I am not sure I have one.
I never watch Rachel Maddow (or tv in general) but turned her on tonight just in time to see Anabel being interviewed about the Coffee Party! How wonderful!!
I am sorry I missed it. Will it rerun?
Here is the link to see the interview with Annabel:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/vp/35846586#35846586
My mom is a Stone Mountain fan, and I always thought they were nice looking purses. I could never quite get into the whole 27,000 dollar purse. Stone Mountain was always classy, ask me.
Does anyone other than you know about this?
I don’t see that there is a PWC Coffee Party Facebook page. I tried to search it, and nothing came up.