Corey thought he was only insulting Annabel, Eric, and I am sure, he was thinking of me also in his kind words (major sarcasm)when he called Coffee Party participants “fruit cakes” and “nuts”. What he did not realize was that many of the attendees were military vets. One of whom holds the rank of Colonel. Colonel Morris Davis served in the Air Force for 25 years. He resigned after being appointed Chief Prosecutor at Gitmo due to his insistence the trials be fair and spoke out strongly against torture as he felt it compromised the integrity of the prosecutors.Corey Stewart’s Nuts Are OutLast Saturday, I attended a Coffee Party Day event at the town hall in Haymarket, Virginia. The Coffee Party is a new group that encourages civil discourse on public policy issue. About 30 people attended the event and, based on a show of hands, at least a third of the attendees were military Veterans. I’d estimate the median age of those in attendance was over 50 years of age. The common theme was there are a lot of problems facing the nation and screaming at each other is not going to solve them.The Honorable Corey A. Stewart … my representative.
Corey Stewart is the Chairman of the Prince William County Board of Supervisors. On the official county website, he is listed as “The Honorable Corey A. Stewart” and supposedly he represents me and all of the other citizens of the county, including those of us that met at the Haymarket town hall last Saturday. Here is what he said in an interview with a reporter from the Gainesville Times:
“The Coffee Partiers are a bunch of fruitcakes; yeah, they’re a bunch of nuts. If they’re going to be a coffee party, they’ll be a hazelnut party.” Stewart elaborated, saying the Coffee Party is “just a phase; it’ll disappear.” He derided one of the co-founders saying, “does (he) have a job?” Stewart described the Tea Partiers as patriots “concerned about the direction of the country and about the vast amount of spending that happening.” He called the Tea Party a “legitimate movement” while saying the Coffee Party is “just a load of crap.”
So, my representative, The Honorable Corey A. Stewart, considers me and the other Vets who were there on Saturday fruitcakes, nuts, and a load of crap while he believes the Tea Party group are “patriots.” It seems that a lot of people like The Honorable Corey A. Stewart, Newt Gringich, Karl Rove, Rush Limbaugh, and Glenn Beck, among others, like to use the word patriot to describe themselves and those who agree with their ideology, while none of them ever felt the urge to put on the uniform and defend the constitutional right to belittle others by calling them fruitcakes, nuts, and crap. Apparently he, like former VP Cheney, had more important things to do than serve in the military. To him and the others; you’re welcome.
UPDATE: Title changed to appear less leading.
Wolverine,
I commend your words regarding the first amendment, no one I know in the coffee party is suggesting that people should not be allowed to voice their opinion. But like I teach my older son, it’s all about tone and presentation, people opinion of you are often formed by first impressions. The first impressions of the TEA party and subsequent Marches have simply not been positive. The promotion that people different views, like me, are communists, socialist, etc because I believe in insurance reform does nothing to solve problems. As far as I can tell, Corey disparaged the Coffee Party while we had said NOTHING about him. I believe the Veterans ARE owed a special apology, but you know what, so were all the other hard working people in that room. He should be embarassed by his behavior.
I picked out a few parts of your post that I really liked – and the “…..” notation just shows I edited stuff inbetween (which also was really good but I wanted to highlight a few parts of what you said).
Anyway, I really liked what you said in these “snippets” of your post and am glad you wrote that, as well as everything else you wrote in that post. I totally agree with all of it.
I forgot this comment Wolverine made. I think I said earlier that the media were trying to define the Tea Party by its fringe membership. Leave it to the news media to find the “dark corners” of any organization they don’t like. And, leave it to the gullible public to buy into everything they read in the press or see on TV, and to believe the great majority of Tea Party members are like that. I choose to believe most are more like Wolverine, and the fringe members (the ones the media likes to portray as the Tea Party as a whole) are very much in the minority.
So while not a Tea Party member myself – I also think everyone should do what Wolverine says above, and not think of the Tea Party the way the press would like to try and define it as! I know I wrote a post somewhere either in this thread or another one where I said the news media was trying to define the Tea Party by finding a some of its members who were the extremists or “out there on the fringes” and make the Tea Party look like all (or most of) its members were that way.
I’m glad to see Al say that – that as far as he’s concerned the Coffee Party and Tea Party aren’t mutually exclusive – that someone can’t be a member of both if they so choose to.
I think I had sort of a double negative in there – well I never claimed to be very good at writing. What I meant to say is I’m glad to see that as far as Al is concerned, that someone CAN be a member of both the Tea Party and the Coffee Party if they so choose to – and they aren’t mutually exclusive.
@Gainesville Resident
In fact, Gainesville Resident, after talking with the Tea Party co-founders, it’s clear that we intersect in a number of fundamental ways… and we are all Patriots (the heart of this thread).
NTK, couple of other things to consider, relations with some 501(c) organizations, land holdings outside PWC along the route of the proposed Buckland Bypass, problems staff is trying to bury regarding some road improvement projects in the west end of the county.
I think it would be a very good idea for the Tea Party to tell Fox and Glenn Beck to stop covering their activities if that is truly how it feels. Until that happens, I ain’t buying it. I know what I have seen. I also didn’t think there was ‘A’ tea Party.
And now for my big question:
What does this mean:
@ GR
I am confused by who the sides are?
The coffee party has no litmus test Gainesville, except, you must be willing to accept that someone is entitled to have a different opinion and still be a Patriot.
I’m having trouble now remember what I was getting at by that – I must confess. It must not have been a very important point I was making (not that much I say is very important anyway). So, I can’t really explain what it was I was trying to say there!
Actually, as to the two sides- I probably meant Republicans/Democrats. But now that I read back what I wrote – I can’t say it makes a lot of sense as to what I was trying to say. Unfortunately, that’s the way it is a lot of the times with some of the stuff I write! Oh well, not worth trying to figure it out now!
That’s good – it does seem that fundamentally, both parties have the best interests of the country at heart – so should have common interests as a result of that.
I just took a trip to the dark side. I don’t go there that often because it just isn’t that interesting anymore; however, I wondered if they were talking about the coffee party-tea party conversation going on over here.
If anyone has any doubts why we need an alternative to the tea party in Prince William County, just go over to the current open thread and read what they are saying. I’ll warn you, it isn’t for the faint of heart. I believe the owner of that blog is PWC Tea Party central and assume those who post are his minions. Now I understand who Chairman Stewart was really talking to when he made those comments that upset the vets. If you judge a person by his friends, now’s your chance to make your judgment. I could make some really dark parallels; however, I understand there are certain words and references banned by M-h.
This isn’t an abstract conversation, this is real, this is now, and this is in Prince William County. I can’t wait for someone to try and defend what they are saying about some County residents who simply want to get together over a cup of coffee and talk about how to make things better.
So, where do I sign up for the Coffee Party?
I can somewhat see that point of view. Although, it is a counterpoint to the inaccurate coverage the rest of the media does on the Tea Party I think. Then again, I’m saying that without ever having seen Glen Beck’s coverage of the Tea Party – so maybe I shouldn’t be talking about something I have no knowledge of. I’ve seen Glen Beck’s program a few times – but not since he started covering the Tea Party.
But, I do think the Tea Party has been unfairly portrayed in the press. I know how they work – they like to find the dark corners of any issue, party, or person who they disagree with, and blow those things out of proportion and make them look representative of that group of people, that person, or that issue. Only for those things they don’t agree with, of course!
Well, all I can say is on the predecessor to this blog – there were pretty dark things said about people who were incorrectly thought to be associated with the other blog, or even thought to in any way sympathize with any things the other blog stood for. I know, because my very first post on the predecessor website was a harmless one – saying I thought the watered down version of the resolution was fine. That prompted the angry mob with pitchforks to come out – immediately some posters accused me of being racist, a Nazi, etc.
So far I haven’t seen this behavior on this blog – so I’m hoping that behavior on its predecessor site has been left behind. But I still think there are those people out there, on the opposite side of those on the ‘dark blog’ if you want to call it that – who have in the past readily said some very very terrible things about anyone they disagreed with.
It gets back to my point – both sides locally have said some awful awful things about each other, and neither side has clean hands. Plenty of name calling and other nasty stuff.
It would be nice if all of that is in the past. I haven’t looked at the other blog lately – but I know an awful lot of nasty stuff has been said in the past over there. But, the same was true on the predecessor website to this one – by some frequent posters, and usually a bunch of other people would chime in and agree with them!
So, I’m just saying – while you may be shocked at what’s on the other blog today – you may also have been shocked at some of the outrageous things said on the predecessor website by some frequent posters on it. Corey Stewart was labeled many times as both a Nazi and a racist for example. To me, Nazi means “mass murderer” or “mass murderer sympathizer” for lack of a better term. Maybe not to other people though. I don’t think anyone can honestly say he is a Nazi by that definition. Maybe though, their definition of Nazi is far different from mine. However, having friends of parents who were directly affected by the events in Germany in that time period – maybe I have a more visceral reaction to someone being called a Nazi than many other people do.
@El Quapo
E Q, I’m sorry to hear that. Go to coffeepartyusa.com to sign up.
WOW, what a great post. Yes, I have been receiving e-mails/updates about what a loser I am over on the dark side. I would add, you can also judge a person by their enemies !
Gainesville, I think I’ll call you the Master of Deflection!
GR, I think I’ll call you the Master of Deflection 🙂@Gainesville Resident
Quapo…do I have that right? I have banned no words or references on this blog. I have have banned people but those are the roll overs from anti. (no, Slowpoke is not banned).
Say what you need to say….you have walked through the valley of shadow of death. You probably need to warn us. And I DO fear evil.
@Gainesville Resident
I’m sorry, G R, but that’s (to use the Chairman’s term) a “load of crap”. Have you been over there today? Do you want me to bring some of the quotes over here for “closer inspection” and ask you to defend them? This is stuff intended to make a woman cry.
I also think there is a difference between trashing an elected official and private citizens. Elected officials sign up for the arena. Private citizens do not. They are talking about wives, mothers, sisters, daughters, friends. They are doing it the most cowardly way: anonymously.
Your “…friends of parents who were directly affected by the events in Germany in that time period…” should make you even more sensitive to their remarks. Sorry, G R, I’m afraid defending what they are saying over there is like defending a wife beater… it’s just not an argument you can win.
You misunderstood me. I’m not defending what they are saying over there at all. I’m saying, just as bad things were said on the predecessor website to this one.
I never ever said I thought what was being said over there was something good, or that I agreed with.
I don’t know how I conveyed that I did – but I will admit my writing is not always clear.
So, I am not in any way defending what is said over there. However, some people have defended some nasty nasty stuff said on the predecessor website to this one – that I don’t see how they can get away with defending.
And I hope you honestly misunderstood what I was saying. I reread my other post, and I don’t see how it could be interpreted as I was defending what they were saying over there!
I know in the past on the predecessor website – people used to like to put words in my mouth – purposely turn around words I wrote to change their meaning and make them 180 degrees opposite of what I said.
So, I hope this is an honest mistake on your part – and you aren’t trying to put words in my mouth and say that I am defending the nasty things said over there.
I’m not.
But, others have defending equally nasty (in my opinion) things said on the predecessor website.
Let’s see – I remember one post about Corey and someone on the other website seen walking out of the county building together very late at night. The poster went on to say – looks like the two of them are having an affair with each other and apparently Corey is secretly gay. I’m not making that up – and am quoting that post practically verbatim. If I wanted to take the time and effort, I’m sure I can dig it up in the archives of the old website.
And, other very dark and nasty things were said about Corey Stewart, and about other people, and about almost anyone who posted on that website in its early days (and even in somewhat relatively recent times) who the majority of posters on there disagreed with. Many people were called racist, and other nasty terms, who definitely weren’t.
Anyway, it just shocks me that you think I was defending what was said on the other website! Amazing!
@Gainesville Resident
Just one question GR, have you been over there today? Can you honestly say that in the history of this website or the last, women, innocent women, patriotic women who stepped up and volunteered, moms with kids, wives, were personally insulted using terms anything close to what those people are using? Do I need to bring a couple of samples over? There’s a difference between insulting what one believes and personal insults. These are very personal insults.
The role of apologist doesn’t suit you. You are usually too reasonable of a person. If you can honestly tell me that you have encountered a similar vile tone “over here” directed towards women (and yes, I am playing the “gentlemen” card because I still think like that), I will consider myself corrected.
Well, as I was called a Nazi, and to a person of my faith that is a despicable term – yes, I can say that.
Now, as toward “women” – no, I can’t say that of course.
But, you didn’t say the issue was about things men say about women. In that context, I agree – nothing on the predecessor website to this one was ever like that.
But, again, you didn’t refer to the issue as being directly about nasty things men are saying toward women, denigrating them.
And, once again, I never ever defended anything on bvbl. That kind of comment – is the kind of stuff I was accused of doing back in the bad old days – and actually one frequent poster claimed I was a card carrying member of HSM and a frequent poster on bvbl. I never posted on bvbl, and I never been to an HSM meeting.
However, I still say you are in the wrong for labeling me as an apologist of what goes on over on bvbl, or a defender of it.
That is the same crazy stuff I was accused of in the past. I didn’t like it then, and I don’t like it now.
Case closed.
Case closed.
And I guess I’m supposed to assume what you mean by that.
I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree. But I highly resent you labeling me as a defender and apologist for that website. I guess though, you are free to say what you want. But, in that case, you are just an example of those who like to distort and bend the truth as no reasonable person can come to those conclusions. I’m guessing, you want others to read your posts, and come to that conclusion about me.
I come to this conclusion as you haven’t apologized for these outrageous accusations you made of me.
And, I’m kind of guessing you must not have looked at that thread over there recently. But whatever, it is obvious you are going to stick to your story – that I’m an apologist and defender of the nasty things said on bvbl. So be it.
Thank you El Quapo!
So you’re defending his accusations against me. That’s nice.
You were NEVER called a Nazi as I recall, you argued about Corey being likened to a Nazi, but never you. But once again GR, you are the master of deflection. How about just once, once, staying on topic.
You are being very dramatic, El Quapo is not attacking you.
Yes I was, and you may not remember it, but I was. I remember it vividly – you would too if you were called it. But fine, call me a liar, as that’s exactly what you are doing.
That’s OK, believe what you want.
And I did argue many many many times (too many) about myself being called a Nazi.
Well, you just basically said I’m a liar, so that’s fine.
Gainesville,
Go to bed, put your kepala on your pillow, have a warm glass of organic milk and relax, deep breaths, tomorrow is a new day to fight your valiant fight.
Let me address a few things about our blog and the previous blog, anti. Anyone can see our beginnings up in the upper left and tab and any of the archives. They are all there in the sidebar. Some of the pictures did not migrate over, however. Sorry. Antibvbl.net was started to counteract bvbl, thus the name. It was suggested by another blogger and Alanna set up shop.
Alanna, Elena, I and many others did not like the tone of the debate taking place in the county over the immigration issue. I have no desire to rehash all of that back in the day. It is probably very counterproductive and just stirs people up. Furthermore, not everyone agrees on all the issues. Additionally, people come and people go on a blog. They are often anonymous names who we know only by the moniker they chose.
This blog keeps Elena and me busy enough that I simply cannot deal with what happened in the past. This is a new blog and while the changes were subtle, there were changes. Everyone felt it was time to move on. Thus we have moonhowlings.net.
Let’s leave what happened a couple years ago back where it belongs. Its all there if you need to find something but I don’t think it is healthy to dwell on the past. According to El quapo, things are pretty vile over on the dark side and that means we are under attack. I thank him for defending this blog and its users. I have been emailed a copy of the comments. Apparently they are bored because the blogmeister is not feeding them the usual supply of raw meat. So I guess we are it, along with Eric and Annabel. That’s really too bad for any people to dwell on unkindness like what I read. And it serves no real purpose. It isn’t going to make any of us stop blogging.
Gainesville, I know you aren’t a liar. And I know that you were thrown off bvbl along with many others. You were part of the purge along with many of us. It is a sensitive topic to everyone on here and one that I will email you about.
Greg and Wolverine stepped in to moderate the vile comments of which I spoke. To their credit, they both spoke against it and are attempting to restore a touch of civility to the dialog. I give them both credit for that. I left the following post on BVBL. You may go there to read their moderating comments.
“Thank you, Greg and Wolverine. I stopped coming over here a long time ago because I just couldn’t take the occasional vile that worked its way into many threads and am glad it doesn’t represent the “corporate” View. I’ll admit that I came over to see if the dialog on Moonhowlings was generating a post or comments and was frankly shocked at what I found. I’m glad I am not alone.
It would be valuable to the community to have two civil but different perspectives on the issues. Right now, as Wolverine correctly points out, the differences that show up the most dramatically are not the ones that will really help your cause… particularly next year.”
Wolverine was so eloquent on BVBL that I feel compelled to share his comments here. Thank you, Wolverine, for your support of a civil dialog between folks who disagree. I hope Chairman Stewart particularly reads Wolverine’s comments because it they are most relevant to the point of this thread.
“Wolverine said on 20 Mar 2010 at 12:49 am:
Flag comment
Thanks for that moderating comment, Greg. I am as conservative as they come. I’ll match my conservative views up against anyone on this blog, and I’ve seen a mighty lot of historical water go under the bridge. I am an unhappy camper with regard to the Obama administration, and I will make no bones about it.
But I did elect to go over to the other site in order to interact with the people there. Yes, there are liberals. Yes, they are believers in their causes. And, yes, they will argue their points without blushing or backing down. But I found that there are, indeed, some moderate views as well —even, in my opinion, a conservative take on some issues from time to time which surprised me very much given the history of warfare between these two blogs.
Let me tell you something else that surprised me: very little mention since I’ve been participating over there of the BVBL and not all that much really in the way of gratuitous slams. I’ve had some good, solid interaction over there; and rarely, if ever, are my contrary opinions run over by the blog bus. They don’t love you guys, that’s for sure. But there is not a heck of a lot of slamming going on these days. Opinions, yes, Strong opinions, yes. Opinions aimed at politicians local, state, and national, yes. Opinions aimed at conservative commentators and at Fox News, yes. Now, which one of you “conservatives” are going to fault a fellow American for using his/her First Amendment rights to express their political opinions? And what gives with all these personal comments about the people involved on the other site? Any conservative worth his salt ought to be an absolutely ultimate supporter of the First Amendment both in its official meaning and in the meaning which has long since been transferred to our conduct of politics. What does it say about the skill-confidence of a conservative if he/she cannot engage in debate with the other side without making it personal?
I’ve watched you guys for a long time. You do research. You argue the issues strongly as you see them. I am not your enemy. So why diminish your arguments by suddenly jumping all over the opposition with comments which have no relevance to those arguments? So they posted threads over there taking the Cooch and Corey Stewart to task. How many times have you done the same with regard to Connolly or Principi or Obama or other denizens of the opposition? That’s your right. It is also their right. You get your say. They get theirs. In the end, it all gets sorted out at the polling places. I think that the Founding Fathers intended it that way when they wrote the Constitution and added the Bill of Rights.
On most of the issues of the day, I am on your side up and down the line. But it sure doesn’t make us look good when we go into a personal attack mode. In fact, I am finding out that it actually rebounds to the profit of those who are determined to label conseratives and those in the Tea Party as part of the crazy fringe. You know you are not part of that fringe. Why hand such ammunition to the opposition? You just make their day.”
190 comments? Is this a record for Moonhowlings? Close?
I think it’s a record breaker, Al. Good call.
I’m glad to see so many comments, but wow what a spirited thread. Sometimes it’s best to just read.
As usual, I am humbled by Wolverine’s eloquence. I thank him for his kind words. He has been a supporter of this blog for a long time and he brings a very welcome conservative balance to ‘Howlings. Wolverine goes a step further. He serves as a role model for how things ought to be in the political arena–Not the content and beliefs necessarily, but the delivery system. Unbeknowst to him, he has kept me on track and more civil on more than one occassion…sort of serving as a blogging moral compass presence.
Thanks to el quapo for bringing over a message of good will. I appreciate your efforts and I know Elena does also.
I don’t know if this is a record or not. We have had some pretty long ones. I just don’t have the counter plug in. Guess I could get one. You modern folks! 🙄
Thanks again to el Quapo and to Wolverine. (or is that Saint Wolverine?)
I guess I’m 193. I’ve had to catch up on work today that fell behind yesterday while I was helping reach the record number of posts in this thread. Fortunately, I’m in a position to have flexibility in my work schedule as long as I’m prepared by the time meetings come around. I had none yesterday or today, but am back to being a professional Monday morning. I think this has been a great discussion and have enjoyed being a part of it.
I think also it’s great that a spirit of civil discussion is emerging all around, including intervention by Wolverine and el Quapo over at Greg’s blog, and Greg’s willingness to moderate some of the more offensive comments there. I read the thread and would suggest there’s more cleaning to do, but am glad that Greg is refraining from the personal attacks and insults posted by some.
We’ve discussed this issue in a spirit of criticizing Corey’s actions and words rather than him personally. He reads these blogs and I hope maybe he’s learned something from this that will help him serve the community in a more effective and mature manner. Like Elena and Al, I’m also a former Corey supporter. I see no way I could vote for him again, however. Anyway, my criticism of him will remain focused on his actions and words rather than personal attacks.
@Need to Know
Now, if Corey will just return the favor. I don’t mind being challenged civilly for my political beliefs; however, I do mind being criticized for whom I chose to associate with, what I chose to say, or when… and I “get fighting mad” when people question my patriotism. “I am not a nut” (well… for full disclosure…. sometimes I feel like a nut, and sometimes I don’t… but I never feel like a fruitcake, or a hazelnut something or “whatever else he called us”.)
Ironically, I think he understands my politics… just not my perspective. I’m told that tomorrow’s Manassas News and Messenger will feature the Coffee Party. Enjoy!
Al, thanks for those kind words in #143. I called Mrs. Wolverine up to the computer room to read #141 before I sent it. The last paragraph of my post caused the tears to well up in her eyes. They always do when I mention that memory. You see, those young, badly wounded and scarred Marines of whom I spoke were actually her kids. She was a military nurse charged with taking care of those kids and trying to give them some hope for their futures. I recall her rejoicing when a Navy surgeon succeeded in patching one of them back together or seeing a young man smile when a leg prosthesis actually fit and worked. And I recall her sadness when a young kid only 19 or so told her he thought his girlfriend would never love him again because he had lost his legs and his face was scarred. Me, I was just one of the warriors in for healing. She was one of the “angels” on the ward. That young demonstrator with the propeller on his beanie escaped my wrath. He was lucky, however, that Mrs. Wolverine was not there.
I would just like to take this occasion to say God Bless to military nurses everywhere, past and present. And to the Navy corpsmen also — members of the Corps regardless of the actual uniform.
@Wolverine
..and God Bless the United States of America. If I may be so bold (since I’m an Army vet), Semper Fi, Marine!
And as for Mrs. Wolverine, In those days women didn’t have to serve… and you chose to join up so you could take care of your “kids”. Thank you, Mrs. Wolverine, ESPECIALLY for your service.
I’m tearing up a bit myself…
Dearest Wolverine and better half of Wolverine 😉
Thank you once again for your service to our country. Vietnam was not my life experience, but I value the pain and suffering so many lived through. Your service will never be dismissed or forgotten. I personally thank you for your intervention over on the other blog. I try to live by the old “stick and stones” but I am still a real person with a real family that I love. What is a democracy without differning views? Well, it isn’t a democracy.
News you can use: Vets, did you know that as of veterans are now permitted to render a hand salute when the U.S. flag is raised and lowered, passes in review, during the Pledge of Allegiance, and during the playing of the National Anthem? US Code Title 4 was amended by Senator James Inhofe (R-Oklahoma) in the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2009 to grant us that right. I now salute during the Pledge of Allegiance at BOCS meetings and suggest all vets do so to demonstrate just how many of us there are in Prince William County.
Gainesville,
If you were called a Nazi that was wrong. Even though I hope I would have defended that you were not one, it has no place on any blog, and I can understand why it would have offended you so mcuh. This is a new day and so lets start from this day forward and focus on current events.
OK, that’s more than fair enough. And, I’m beginning to realize it’s not worth dwelling on past events. Sometimes, my memory for things like that – tends to make me keep dwelling on it – and some things are best forgotten. However, that kind of etched itself in my memory – but I’ll make a better effort of putting it behind me. I figured you if anyone would understand how bad it might be to be called a Nazi. It must have happened in a thread that you did not notice, and then eventually that word kind of got banned. Actually, it happened way before Corey was labeled one, in my very very early days on the predecessor site.
Anyway, it’s no longer important. Things did get heated yesterday, and I certainly more than helped add to the heat, and didn’t add a whole lot of light to the discussion in looking back on my posts yesterday.
So, I agree, sounds good to make a new start and leave all that stuff in the past where it belongs. It also looks like maybe some good came out of this in that on the other site some of the name calling may stop too. Some if it was indeed very vile, and I never was defending it, even if it somehow appeared I was. Hopefully some positive stuff came out of what happened in the past two days with this thread and a thread on the other site that was reacting to this thread.