As anti-abortion Democrat Bart Stupak attempted to speak on the House floor, a lone voice called out what sounded like ‘Baby Killer.‘ The entire House errupted in muffled whispers over the affrontery. Gavels were banged and people whispered back and forth over what they thought they heard. Rep. Stupak had held out his vote for Health Care Reform until President Obama promised to write an executive order stating no public funds were to be used for abortion. The ‘baby killer’ remark must have smarted. Again, rudeness.
Now the shouter has stepped forward and confessed, along with a little equivocation. It seems that he meant the Health Care Reform legislation was a baby killer, not Stupak. Rep. Randy Neugebauer (R-Tx) had the following to say:
Last night was the climax of weeks and months of debate on a health care bill that my constituents fear and do not support. In the heat and emotion of the debate, I exclaimed the phrase ‘it’s a baby killer’ in reference to the agreement reached by the Democratic leadership. While I remain heartbroken over the passage of this bill and the tragic consequences it will have for the unborn, I deeply regret that my actions were mistakenly interpreted as a direct reference to Congressman Stupak himself.
“I have apologized to Mr. Stupak and also apologize to my colleagues for the manner in which I expressed my disappointment about the bill. The House Chamber is a place of decorum and respect. The timing and tone of my comment last night was inappropriate.”
Yea right, Mr. Neugebauer. Let’s have a listen. It’s brief:
We must live in an ‘anything goes’ culture where the rules of civilized society have been abandoned. On the national level, Members of Congress call the the President a liar, call each other names like ‘ Baby Killer.’ Outside, protestors spit, make racial slurs, and threaten with gun signs. At the local level a supervisor thinks its ok to call his constituents names and refer to them as ‘crap.’ There must be some rules of decorum. It’s one thing to speak informally with friends. It’s quite another to make public statements and direct racial slurs at people. The threatening and bullying must stop. And our leaders and entertainers who reach into millions and millions of homes per day must stop aiding, abetting and inciting this kind of behavior.
Just couldn’t hear any of the shout out on that video. Didn’t really realized it had happened until the chair slammed the gavel down. Anything else out there on the web with a better catch?
I get you with equal time on this one, Moon. I believe the guy sitting in back of Stupak to the right is Rep. James McDermott from Washington State. A court ordered him to pay between $700,000 and $1 million to Minority Leader John Boehner for giving an illegally recorded telephone conversation between Boehner and former Speaker Newt Gingrich to the New York Times. Shall we have a double spanking here?
I thought I heard “baby killer” at least twice
The opposition “tea partiers” and others lost the moral high ground after the events of this past weekend. They hurled racial slurs and spit on members of Congress. They have been exposed as impotent, ignorant bigots. They have done great damage to their cause.
Also, Congressman Neugebauer’s remark was vile, sickening and disgusting, and completely unbecoming of an elected public official. Civilized peoples everywhere should stand united and condemn the Congressman’s remark.
I’m under no delusions that a presidential piece of paper is going to protect the unborn. Maybe “baby-killer” is a bit much, but “you lie!” is right on the money.
Hmmmmmmmmmm, does the word Nazi mean anything to anyone. Seems I’ve heard it directed at various public people back on the Anti site many times. Both sides are guilty, so lets not act as if it’s only coming from a few on the right. This congress voted on a stimulus bill no one read, and now have passed a bill where a previous Constitutionally required roll-call vote never took place. THAT, not the contents of the bill, is what bothers me the most!
I don’t think the unborn were in danger because of health care reform. The Hyde Amendment is a fairly solid and enduring piece of legislation.
I just hate to see us emulating Parliament’s rude behavior.
That was the shortest and best catch I could find. There is a better one on Huffington Post but I felt its authenticity might be in question. It appears to be a double run. It just wasn’t worth the battering ram that came with it.
@Second-Alamo
Actually you hadn’t heard the word Nazi there for a long time because for at least since last summer, I had Nazi and Hitler as moderation trigger words. If the words were used, the user’s comments instantly went to moderation. I also had to put the N word in there as a trigger. Not sure what your point is. I would never say that everyone who uses a blog uses good taste.
Content bothers me more than anything. I am still trying to figure that out. I lost all hope of understanding the procedure.
Did Rush Limbaugh say ‘we need to defeat these bastards?’
He may have, and if he did I’m starting to understand where he’s coming from. Obama stated he wasn’t that concerned about procedure, and that in itself scares me since the Constitution is all about procedure on how the government should operate. Does it not seem that the folks representing us are instead representing only their party, on both sides! The vote on healthcare barely passed, and this from a one sided congress that sponsored it. Doesn’t that say anything, or are we just going to call those against it a bunch of whacko’s to rationalize the passage as if it was overwhelmingly wanted by the people of this country. I don’t think so. Not to mention the president himself was barely voted into office. Look out here come the illegals. That will be the next item they’ll push through for our ‘benefit’.
The bill was enacted by both chambers of the United States Congress. It will be signed by the President of the United States. This is in accordance with the Constitution of the United States.
If you believe that the bill was unconstitutional, you may take your claims to the United States Supreme Court. You may also register your displeasure during this year’s election.
There was nothing unconstitutional about what just occured.
Dude, can’t you come up with an orignal doomsday prediction?
I heard the words “baby killer” when I was listening to the live broadcast. “It’s a” must have been muffled. I think Neugebauer’s “apology” was disingenuous. The press, his fellow representatives, and many citizens were looking for the culprit (whom a few Republicans knew but weren’t going to “out”) and it was only a matter of time until he was exposed. Reps from Texas and California were viewed as likely culprits (probably because of their seating). He came forward to try to do damage control.
And, yeah sure, he coincidentally happened to vent his spleen – “In the heat and emotion of the debate, I exclaimed the phrase ‘it’s a baby killer’ in reference to the agreement reached by the Democratic leadership.” – just as Stupak spoke. It was definitely aimed at Stupak and not just a general vent otherwise it could have been screeched at any moment – although it should have been screeched at none.
“protestors spit, make racial slurs,”
Prove it. No one was caught on film during that walk spitting or making racial slurs. I’ve been called a racist ever since I realized that I was a conservative and made my views known. Tea party members…BLACK tea party members have been called racists. Photos have been cropped to conceal the actual race of Tea Party members. The Left always resorts to the “race card” and the Black Caucus, technically a racist organization, uses it quite frequently on any dissenter to the Democrat line. And yes, the Black Caucus is a race based, so therefore a racist, organization.
Show me proof. We have evidence that it did not happen. No arrests. No recordings. No reaction from the Congressmen as they strolled through the crowd. I’m sorry, if someone spit on them, then there would have been a reaction. Police were escorting them and the police would have intervened.
So, when you make those statements, perhaps it would be better to put the word “alleged” in those accusations.
And those threatening signs? Yes, they threatened RETALIATION against unconstitutional tyranny. Unlike the left when they called for the actual ASSASSINATION of Bush and other Republicans. As I’ve said in other threads, we still have recourse to peaceful means to hold our politicians responsible. The left is given a pass for actual violence. But peaceful Tea Party protesters are accused of violence.
There are NO documented examples of Tea Party violence or arrests. The “Right” knows that violence or the appearance of violence will be trumpeted as “proof” of the “angry right”. The “right” is always subjected to a double standard. The recent crazies, the IRS plane crasher and the Pentagon shooter, were called Tea Party members even before the police identified them. The only news outlets that revealed the both criminals were fans of LEFTwing politics were Fox and the Web.
Besides, its not the ones with the placards that you have to worry about. They are the canaries in the coal mine. Its the ones sitting at home, quietly seething, that we have to worry about. On BOTH sides of the discussion.
SA must be feeling nostalgic.
We should be ashamed of our leaders.
Cargosquid, is this article wrong? Where’s your proof that it didn’t happen? The Tea Party is claiming tens of thousands of people were there. Was someone reliable monitoring the Congressmen’s walk the entire time? Is it on tape?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/20/AR2010032002556.html?sub=AR
Censored, Here is something I posted at the thread about the alleged abuse:
Here are some posts that contradict the story given out by the Huffington Post:
http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/2010/03/state-run-media-now-reporting-racist-propaganda-from-huffington-post-as-fact/#comments
http://www.ktvu.com/politics/22899444/detail.html
Key statement is that the Capitol police made NO arrests today.
With the amount of video out there, someone would have video uploaded that showed the spitting. And the police don’t react at all.
While it may have happened earlier in the “walk”, that would make the accusation “alleged.”
The accuser is supposed to provide proof. Where is it? Innocent until proven guilty. If these miscreants can be identified, I will be one of the most vocal in denouncing them.
The video at Gateway Pundit shows an unruly, hostile crowd, but the Congressmen spoke to none of them and I heard no racial shouts, though, I’ll admit, that any bigotry was not caught by that camera.
Oh, I forgot,
Randy Neugebauer is an idiot. Should have kept his mouth shut. Any statement that CAN be used to make conservatives look bad, WILL be used to make conservatives look bad.
The concerns have been expressed, the anger is real, the threats to our form of governmment and its principles is real. Please — do not begrudge the fact that people are trying to express / convey the seriousness of that concern / fear. It is the Democrats who have told the majority to go hell on this one. Ther were alternatives.
I agree with PWC. People have the right to be angry.
But they don’t have the right to shout racist and other slurs or threaten to bring guns. Outside of those things compromising the movement, that kind of behavior is only perceived as dangerous and counter-productive. It turns people off no matter what the message is supposed to be.
Here is another clip of the alleged incident. While I support O’Reilly’s view on the matter, Dana Loesch has a point. Except I don’t question the Congressman’s credibility due to his support for Obamacare, but, because of the “cry wolf” factor of that side using the race card all the time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SQDiacb8Vo
As I said, show me evidence and I will be happy to denounce the idiot. And I do denounce any that feel spitting and racial slurs are appropriate. Denounce your opponents for their actions.
From comments at Instapundit:
First, let’s not leap to factual conclusions. Last evening the Lehrer News Hour reported (along with Politico this morning) that Rep. Randy Neugebauer shouted “baby killer” as Rep. Bart Stupak was speaking Sunday night. Yet NPR reported that Neugebauer actually shouted “It’s a baby killer” — referring to the bill, not to Stupak. Neither version is acceptable, but there is a difference. Likewise, claims about protesters taunts should be treated cautiously as well, especially since they’ve been denied, and as yet no footage has emerged to support them. Yet we see here at the Arena this morning that Harvard’s Theda Skocpol is writing, without a shred of evidence, that ”Quite a few Republican public officials are even flirting with threats of violence against political figures they oppose.” So let’s not pretend that the right has a corner on irresponsibility.
Notice: NPR states that he said, “its a baby killer,” not “baby killer.” Shouting out during the speech is rude. But, apparently he DID NOT call Stupak a baby killer.
I looked that one up. Bizarre. That fine seems steep. Which court awarded that one? Strange story. Sort of theopposite principle. I need to read more.
As for the spankings….different issue. One is rudeness. The other ….just strange. Rudeness is clear-cut.
Cargo, he said he said ‘It’s a baby killer.’ I don’t believe him based on what I heard in the various clips I listened to. I think he is trying to soft pedal. Last year, He tried to enact birther legislation.
Regardless of what he said, he called out and was rude, which is my objection. I am not fan of Bart Stupak but I don’t think he should have been the recipient of the baby killer remark.
Cargosquid, I think the first video is shot from basically one spot with “kill the bill” drowning out most other noise. If something had been said closer to the representatives, that video wouldn’t have picked it up.
The article relies on no charges be being filed to imply that the incident didn’t happen. No charges were pressed. That doesn’t mean that it didn’t happen.
And, I’ll have to give Bill O’Reilly credit in the last video. Dana Loesch comes off as an airhead.
You can’t rely on everything being caught on tape despite the plethora of cameras. I’ve seen only one video of the guy with Parkinson’s being heckled in Columbus. Would it have not happened if it had not been caught on camera? Plus – and it’s a big plus in my opinion – people don’t volunteer the footage that’s damaging to their side. Have the Columbus hecklers been identified? Did the Republicans give up one of their own as being the “baby killer” shouter?
@Cargo…show me proof? I have viewed enough footage of agressive behavior during the past year that I believe it. More importantly, many Americans believe. it. I guess my response would be, proof it didn’t happen.
You don’t have to go to the Capitol to hear racial slurs made against the President or members of Congress. Go to any bar with a TV with news coverage on. You only have to wait a minute of 2 to hear a racial slur.
Historically, I suppose our country has come a long way. Bill passage and the legislature has always been contentious. Law makers have been know to call each other out, duel, and beat the crap out of each other. That didn’t happen. I did see some cheerleaders who were really members of Congress standing outside with signs encouraging the protestors. But that’s about all.
If one spits on a Congressman, the police WILL arrest you, regardless of charges pressed. Spitting is assault. There would have been a report.
As to the Parkinson’s video, yes, it would have happened and I’m glad it was caught on tape. Idiots are idiots and should be told so. However, the “victim” acted as provocateur. Its a time honored tradition. And that Tea Party member fell for it.
Yes. He admitted it himself…..
I don’t expect the tea party to volunteer video. But there were “non-supporters” throughout the crowd. Opponents routinely video each other. It even appears that one of the Congressmen were recording the proceedings.
Notice, I’m not saying it did not happen. I am saying that the term “alleged” should be used when speaking about it. The accuser provides the proof. I don’t trust the speaker as racism is CONSTANTLY being used as a smear.
But, lets discuss this as if it did happen. Why is it national news? One or a few idiots spouting abuse is not national news unless the reporter has an agenda. Bush was routinely abused by protesters, Republicans face abuse all the time, in the press, during protests, and on the web. If you can’t handle the heat, get out of the kitichen.
But, again, lets see proof before declaring that it actually happened.
Cargosquid, do you know if a Congressman can tell a Capitol Hill officer not to press charges? Can it be done? Is there discretion? I could see why the Congessman wouldn’t want to press charges – it would stir up an even bigger brouhaha among the protestors and be another item in the news just as the Congress is ready to vote. Without pressing charges he would still have the sympathy of the majority of people because of the abuse without giving the loony fringe a cause. And there cerainly were Congressmen egging the crowd on from the balconey.
Censored, I agree. She was an air-head with faulty logic hardwiring. To O’Reilly’s credit, he debunked her ‘theory.’ <--------- being generous with that word. Interesting question about giving up one of their own. The answer is no. No stool pigeons in the crowd. He outted himself. He also had birther legislation last year so he might have been proud of his words. O'Reilly also brings up a good point about thousands of people shouldn't get blamed for the words of a few idiots. I agree there. However, when DHS reports indicate that dangerous people can be found in political crowds like this (or those that demonstrate against G8) then everyone needs to go back to the 'few idiots' concept and not get all offended. It can't be had both ways. How many idiots does it take to create a life threatening situation? 1
Please excuse me for hijacking this thread but the open thread was very old and this is something that everyone should be aware of. It was important enough to get me to come out of blog retirement to post this and is far more important than the goings on of Tea or Coffee parties.
For the first time in history, a number of US companies have pierced the sovereign ceiling. Piercing the sovereign ceiling means that that certain corporate bonds (from companies such as Abbott Labs, Lowes and Berkshire) now pay lower interest rates than US government bonds. In other words, these corporate bonds are seen as lower risk than US government bonds. Let me repeat that one more time: The bond market now sees Lowes as more creditworthy than the Federal government.
Piercing the sovereign ceiling is almost unheard of in major economies. It’s most commonly seen when a multinational corporation is based in a 3rd world country. (For example De Beers in South Africa.) That it is happening in America should tell you everything you need to know about our present fiscal situation.
When interest rates start to rise and we get an economic triple whammy (high interest rates depress the private sector economy and greatly increase the costs of servicing our existing debt, which leads to greater deficits, which leads to higher interest rates…) don’t say you didn’t see it coming.
Here’s an article from Bloomberg with more info on it.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aYUeBnitz7nU
As always, I am not giving investment advice and nothing in this post should be taken as investment advice. But if you have any liquid assets at all, you need to read and understand the Bloomberg article.
Censored,
It is my understanding that even if there are no charges pressed, an arrest would have been made. Normally. Perhaps it happened and the congressman WAS able to prevent it.
Now, again, lets use the word alleged until proof is found. Please. Its just civil. Of course, I know that I’m probably going to write something in the future and this post is going to come back and bite me, but……..
Thanks formerly. I will definitely read. I am not sure I would know what to do about it though.
Cargo, I used your video for a new thread.
I believe a congressman can not press charges and things just go away.
I find it a waste of time to write alleged when there is no person involved. For me to write ‘alleged’ at this point would mean I questioned the congressman’s veracity. If an accusation had been made at Susie Q then I would be inclined to refer to her as the alleged shouter.
@Formerly Anonymous
Thanks for posting that. It is indeed bad that corporate bonds (some of them) are now seen as lower risk than US bonds. Thanks for posting that Bloomberg article – I had not seen it. All of this does not bode well for the US economy. In fact, as that article points out, Warren Buffet’s bonds are considered lower risk than US bonds.
Neugebauer responds at RedState:
http://www.redstate.com/erick/2010/03/23/a-note-from-congressman-randy-neugebauer/
Moon, as far as I can see, the bulk of that fine consisted of court-ordered reimbursement for legal costs. I understand that the total went from the original $700,000 to almost $1 million because McDermott wasn’t ponying up the cash fast enough to satisfy the court.
Look, I’m not the person who will defend a violation of the rules of decorum in a political body. But I surely will say that using an illegally recorded intercept of a private conversation between two fellow members of the House as a political weapon by giving it to the New York Times certainly trumps any kind of one-time “rudeness” on the House floor, especially in the midst of one of the most contentious national debates of our time. Here we are wagging our fingers at Randy Neugebauer for a single incident of decorum violation, and I am looking at a guy right up on the dias with Democratic Party VIP’s who, in my opinion, should have been thrown out of Congress for what he did. And to top that off, McDermott actually appears to be disapproving of Neugebauer’s shout out. That’s hutzpah for you. To me the fact that McDermott is even up there is an insult to more than House decorum. It’s an insult to our democratic system.
Wolverine,
to me the fact that most of the people up there are in Congress is “an insult to more than House decorum. It’s an insult to our democratic system.”
Are you willing to give the same fine to what’s his name O’Keefe? The fake pimp who illegally recorded acorn and then messed with Sen. Landrieu’s phones?
The article I read said that Boeher was willing to drop it if McDermott gave 10k to charity and admitted he was wrong. McDermott would not. He felt something was really going on illegal. Would McDermott have recorded if he had not felt something very wrong was happening? Maybe everyone needed to be thrown out of congress. I haven’t had time today to digest it. I believe it was a civil matter was it not?
I guess I see them as two unrelated issues. I don’t like Boeher and I don’t know jack about McDermott. We can go back and forth over bad behavior in politics. There will always be someone to trump the next guy.
I am trying to steer away from the “well he did it first” mentality. The Democrats have their share of jerks also and I believe they have gotten some attention here also. But how long can I go on about what a repulsive slime John Edwards is? Hell I like Gov. Sanford better. He at least came across like a love sick puppy rather than an arrogant, lying SOB.
I am getting sooooo frustrated! Good lord, stay on topic. Congressman Stupak, although I disagree with his stance on choice, I am DISGUSTED by the behavior of his colleague. Why is every freakin’ thread a quid pro quo. How about getting back to the topic thread for once.
Censored,
From the Wash Post:
Rep. Emanuel Cleaver (D-Mo.) issued a statement late Saturday saying that he was spit upon while walking to the Capitol to cast a vote, leading the Capitol Police to usher him into the building out of concern for his safety. Police detained the individual, who was then released because Cleaver declined to press charges.
“The congressman was walking into the Capitol to vote, when one protester spat on him. The congressman would like to thank the U.S. Capitol Police officer who quickly escorted the other Members and him into the Capitol, and defused the tense situation with professionalism and care,” said Danny Rotert, a spokesman for Cleaver.
CHUTZPAH is calling your fellow co-worker a baby killer.
Moon, you know I am one who prefers fair play in battle, so I am going to tell you a little story outside the actual subject of this thread. In the mythology of my Viking ancestors, the story goes that the universe was supported by a giant ash tree, the “Yggdrasill.” The axle pin on which the heavens revolved was the “Pole Star.” The roots of the “Yggdrasill” grew through every world of the living and the dead. They were watered from a sacred well at its foot, where “Urdr” or “Destiny” decided the fates of men. Lifegiving, meadlike dew fell on the earth from its branches; and a goat that pastured on its leaves gave mead to the gods to drink The ash tree also suffered; a winged dragon, “Nidhoggr” or “Malicious Striker”, gnawed at the ash tree’s roots. In the ash tree’s branches sat an eagle; and a squirrel ran up and down the tree stirring up trouble between the eagle and the dragon. Now, I won’t attempt to explain further all this bizarre stuff or assign various roles to actual people; but I do suspect that there may be a “squirrel” on this blog. I think you suspect that also. Did you ever get an answer to your question?
Elena, it becomes a quid pro quo because of an old adage about glass houses and tossed rocks.
Thanks Wolverine. I think there might even be a nest of tree runners. 🙄
Cargo, I mean no disrespect towards Congressman Neugebauer’s wife. But what is wrong with her? I am asking a serious question here. She appears ill or being held against her will. I felt like she was signaling me with her eyes. Perhaps she was very shy and uncomfortable but it concerned me.
Oh her husband certainly seemed to have a private chat and a public chat about his behavior. He doesn’t realize that health care isn’t about abortion.
@Moon-howler
Must have missed that about her wife.
And health care IS about abortion. Abortion is a medical procedure. And he objects to tax money going towards abortion.
his wife….saw that I wrote that incorrectly just AFTER I hit “submit”
Moon, McDermott did not tape the conversation in question. It was a cell phone conversation betweeen Boehner and Gingrich about party strategy on some issue which now escapes me. The call was picked up on a scanner by a couple of local Democratic Party supporters in Florida, as I recall, and given to McDermott, who then gave it to the New York Times in an obvious attempt to use it for political gain. It doesn’t matter what McDermott thought of the conversation. The court told him he was wrong, hence the big total for compensation and legal costs. I don’t care what party was involved. It was dirty pool plain and simple.
As for O’Keefe making amends for the ACORN episode, let all the rest of those journalists, including some in the MSM, make amends for the same kind of investigative reporting tactics. O’Keefe did not invent the genre. As for the incident with Landrieu’s phones? That’s for the law to handle. He broke the law? He pays. His politics are irrelevant.
Some people may not like the quid pro quo deal in this. But I object to every incident involving a Republican being attacked by the Huffington Post and other liberal blogs as if it was the equivalent of a capital crime. Now we will hear the cries from Democrats for Neugebauer to go to the well of the House and apologize, just as was the case with Joe Wilson. It all sounds at times like the hue and cry of the Spanish Inquisition. Well, I for one would like then to see McDermott go to the well of the House in the same manner. Also Charlie Rangel, among others. But somehow I never see that.
I am an equal opportunity disliker of politicians who do the wrong thing, and I insist that the old adage of the goose and the gander should always apply. In fact, whenever someone does go to the well of the House to apologize for violating the House rules of decorum, I sort of laugh. Here’s a guy apologizing to a room full of people who have made untruth an art form and actually tell lies for a living. That’s a real crock in my opinion.
Get the idea I’m not too fond of politicians and politicos in general? You would be right. I had to deal with the vicissitudes of too many of them in my working life. Maybe I’ll tell you the story one day of how a distinguished member of Congress tried to get me to confirm some twisted information he had received elsewhere so he could use it in a critical committee meeting. I agreed with that man’s viewpoint on the issue in question but I was damned if I was going to buy into confirming information I knew for a fact was not accurate. When I dug in my heels, he called ME a liar. Now, wasn’t that one Hell of a crock?
I would love to be a member of the House. I would not last a day without being censured. I would go to the well, over and over and over, and apologize to the American people for having too much fun aggravating the hypocrites in Congress.
Moon, that was a very good catch on Mrs. Neugebauer. I caught it as well and called Mrs. Wolverine up to take a gander. Her first impression was that Mrs. Neugebauer may have an eye problem of some kind and was affected by the photographic lights. If not that, then she is really not used to being in front of the cameras.
Wolverine,
When did a democrat shout out such a vile name on the house floor? What does your story have anything to do with such outrageous behavior on the house floor during the process of voting on legislation?