Democratic offices vandalized
By JUDY L. THOMASAuthorities in Wichita and some other cities across the country are investigating vandalism against Democratic offices, apparently in response to health care reform.
And on Monday, a former Alabama militia leader took credit for instigating the actions.
Mike Vanderboegh of Pinson, Ala., former leader of the Alabama Constitutional Militia, put out a call on Friday for modern “Sons of Liberty” to break the windows of Democratic Party offices nationwide in opposition to health care reform. Since then, vandals have struck several offices, including the Sedgwick County Democratic Party headquarters in Wichita.
“There’s glass everywhere,” said Lyndsay Stauble, executive director of the Sedgwick County Democratic Party. “A brick took out the whole floor-to-ceiling window and put a gouge in my desk.”
Stauble said the brick, hurled through the window between Friday night and Saturday morning, had “some anti-Obama rhetoric” written on it.
Vandals also smashed the front door and a window at Rep. Gabrielle Giffords’ office in Tucson early Monday, hours after the Arizona Democrat voted for the health care reform package.
Over the weekend, a brick shattered glass doors at the Monroe County Democratic Committee headquarters in Rochester, N.Y.
Attached to the brick was a note that said, “Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice” — a quote from Barry Goldwater’s 1964 acceptance speech as the Republican presidential candidate.
And on Friday, a brick broke a window at Rep. Louise Slaughter’s district office in Niagara Falls, N.Y. Slaughter, a Democrat, was a vocal supporter of the health care reform bill passed by the House on Sunday.Tyler Longpine, spokesman for the Kansas Democratic Party, called the incidents troubling.
“It’s kind of an alarming context,” he said. “We haven’t had any trouble here, but we’re fortunate enough to be on the seventh floor of an office building in Topeka.”
However, he added, “Most of our county offices are storefronts, which are a little bit more vulnerable to that kind of intimidation.”
Vanderboegh posted the call for action Friday on his blog, “Sipsey Street Irregulars.” Referring to the health care reform bill as “Nancy Pelosi’s Intolerable Act,” he told followers to send a message to Democrats.
“We can break their windows,” he said. “Break them NOW. And if we do a proper job, if we break the windows of hundreds, thousands, of Democrat party headquarters across this country, we might just wake up enough of them to make defending ourselves at the muzzle of a rifle unnecessary.”
Vanderboegh told The Kansas City Star that the action was meant to “get everyone’s attention.”
“What I was trying to get across was that people do not understand how on the edge of civil conflict this country is,” he said.
Those who monitor right-wing extremist groups said they weren’t surprised to hear of the vandalism.
“Passage of health care reform will elicit a variety of responses from its opponents,” said Leonard Zeskind, author of the 2009 book “Blood and Politics.”
“We can expect militia types like Vanderboegh to become even more far-fetched and violent.”
39 Thoughts to “Can We Expect More Violence?”
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We have become desensitized to what really is violence. Elena and I had a very strange conversation tonight which bears that out.
Did you know that that the nutcase who blogged this craziness, “break their windows” is or was, I’m not sure now, a guest speaker at some gun rally in Virginia planned for April 19th. Apparently they want to be “as close to DC as possible”.
http://restoretheconstitution.wordpress.com/
this is just crazy, all of its crazy. When we were at war, the worst you heard about really, was Cindy Sheehan and Code Pink. I don’t recall any threats of violence or intimidation over the Iraq war, a war that was sooooo divisive. Sending our men and women to face possible death or maiming is less contentious than health care? What BIZARRO world am I living in?????
Your “right” to healthcare is infringing on my right to be left alone by the government. Every troop sent to Iraq volunteered to be in the military. I did not volunteer to contribute to your healthcare. I did not agree to a constititutional amendment granting power to regulate whether I get health insurance or not. The government has decided to steal my wealth for the benefit of other specific groups.
Somehow civility does not seem that important to me right now.
I do not advocate violence. But I am okay with incivility.
And here I thought you were talking about the scheduled 2nd Amendment March in DC on the same date.
Vanderboegh is the author of The Window War: http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2009/02/back-by-semi-popular-demand-window-war.html
Its a fictional tail about protesting tyrannical government through civil disobedience of breaking windows.
In fiction, its not bad. In real life, I don’t think so. Just makes the rest of us look bad. And kinda puts a…..crack…into his statement of just wanting to be left alone. They say that there will be no more “Fort Sumters”; that the government will fire the first shot. What they don’t seem to realize is that the government gets to decide what that first shot consists of and this might be it.
He is the part of the 3 Percenter movement, a movement that they believe consists of about 3 percent of gun owners. This is their doctrine.
The Three Percent are the folks the Founders counted on to save the Republic when everyone else abandoned it.
And we will.
There will be no more free Wacos and no more free Katrinas.
For we are the Three Percent.
We will not disarm.
You cannot convince us.
You cannot intimidate us.
You can try to kill us, if you think you can.
But remember, we’ll shoot back .
We are not going away.
We are not backing up another inch.
And there are THREE MILLION OF US.
I tend to think that he is drastically overestimating the amount of people that can be counted in the 3 Percenter movement, especially as reinforcements. If there were this many, the Window War might actually have worked, especially if they had tried it weeks earlier. Also, while it makes for dramatic fiction, the Window War in real life either will fail pathetically, or succeed brilliantly. Since this is happening AFTER the vote, which do you think will happen? Methinks they need to coordinate this a bit more, speaking strictly tactically.
Congress will continue down the path they have started. Because they won this battle, they will feel that they can move onto bigger and more progressive things. If Obamacare’s penalties for not buying mandated insurance started today, perhaps there would be violence when the IRS agent arrives to arrest someone for being healthy. And killing him. Or what else are 12000 new IRS agents for? Along with new orders for shot guns.
Next, there will be the Reconciliation bill in which they want to take total control of student loans. No chance for politics interfering with that, oh, no.
Amnesty for illegal aliens is next. The response to that last time was enough to get Congress to back down. And that was before the Tea parties. But Congress is more arrogant than before.
Cap and Trade. Yeah. That’s going to go well with the job losses.
And may God help us if Obama and Congress start feeling down right froggy, and want to restrict the 2nd Amendment again. Bans and confiscations will not go well……
While we are talking about incivility and name calling, talking about who said what in Congress, people out there and in Congress are playing a dangerous game. BOTH parties are responsible for any violence. Provoked violence is not inexcusable, but neither is the provocation. As you stated, When Perception Becomes Reality…..and many people are perceiving, rightly or wrongly, that Obama and Congress is trying to “fundamentally transform” the US into something that does not recognize nor follow the US Constitution.
And they have rifles. And apparently, do not feel like surrendering.
Oh, and to answer the question…. probably. Depending upon what Congress decides to do.
Boy these Tea Partiers are nothing but terrorists. They are quickly turning this country into a third world banana republic. I would expect to read stuff like this in the Middle East, or Africa, but never in the United States.
There was nothing unconstitutional about the health care bill. In fact, it is the violent opposition does not respect our constitution. Violence is not a part of our American democratic process.
I, for one, am prepared to bear arms to defend our constitution against all enemies, both foreign and domestic.
Your side has been saying that for years. Can’t you come up with something original?
Poll show health care plan gains favor
By Susan Page, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON — More Americans now favor than oppose the health care overhaul that President Obama signed into law Tuesday, a USA TODAY/Gallup Poll finds — a notable turnaround from surveys before the vote that showed a plurality against the legislation.
By 49%-40%, those polled say it was “a good thing” rather than a bad one that Congress passed the bill. Half describe their reaction in positive terms — as “enthusiastic” or “pleased” — while about four in 10 describe it in negative ways, as “disappointed” or “angry.”
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2010-03-23-health-poll-favorable_N.htm
Well, well, well, how about that? The Republicans just had their butts handed to them big time. They were on the wrong side of this debate!
I have never heard Pres. Obama or anyone in his administration say word one about rounding up guns and rifes. Apparently that is an urban legend.
Cargo, I am curious why anyone would try to cause a war over the Branch Dividians or a Hurricane. That needs a lot further explanation. I would be less than honest if I didn’t say that entire stretch makes me ill at ease.
The Branch Dividians apparently had some nasty little sex habits…like forcing themselves on children. Oh let me make sure I say ‘allegedly’ so one of the pervs doesn’t come along and sue me.
The rounding-up-of-guns myth is another of those long-winded predictions the lunatic right has been making for decades.
They’re like Linus waiting in the patch for the Great Pumpkin to appear – any minute now, he’ll be here, bwahaha!
It might help if the President started to represent the entire country and not just his urban special interests.
Starry, that myth certainly jacked the price of ammo up in a year. Some of it has doubled and tripled in price according to my range relative. I guess that is what they call shooting yourself in the foot?
Sick people just don’t live in cities. 🙄
Question; who do you prefer to support – 2nd amendment – stay out of my life limited government individuals or our Chicago mob politicians, drunk with power.
We are now the modern equivelent of the Weimer Republic – in terms of our debt, if not yet the current value of the dollar. As history prepares to repeat itself remember that the Germans of the 1930s were given a political choice — to vote for the centralized personal care, security and economic manangement of Bolshevism or the more limited management of heavy industry through National Socialism. They chose what they thought was the lessor of two evils. So go ahead Starry et.al, but understand that when you call people who seek individual freedom and limited Government terrorists – what you are really doing is giving license (a vote) to the government to expand into the auto industry, health care, use of carbon, the regulation of the internet, the collection of more and more information about you and where you are. It won’t be exactly the same – but it is getting errilly similar and the older you are the more responsible you are for not seeing it.
Or just the interests of the unions. He caved in a major way to the unions in how he bailed out GM and Chrysler, for example. I’m not saying the bailout of them wasn’t good – as otherwise it would have had a huge ripple effect through the economy if they failed. But he gave all kinds of concessions to the unions – if you read the details of what he did – it was not in the best interests of the taxpayers to give those concessions to the unions, not at all.
As to the national debt, the Democrats screamed and yelled every time a Republican president was increasing the national debt. Now, their Democrat president is doing the same thing. Yet they are silent about that!
The health care bill scares me, but these violent such-and-suches scare me more. What we are seeing here is indeed the rise of domestic terrorism who are destroying this country we and our military have tried to protect.
It’s okay to be angry. It’s okay to be a jerk. But it is NOT okay to be threatening, violent and destructive.
Our Vets would be well served (and serving) to protest this kind of action. They have more clout than us, the armchair critics.
We will be no better than countries we view as oppressive if this keeps up.
BTW, what I find most disturbing about the health care bill is that it mandates insurance but doesn’t address the cost. For example, those working in low paying jobs often opt out of insurance because the cost is prohibitive. Forcing these people to pay will land them on the streets.
You and I know large companies will not pick up the slack, nor will the insurance companies. Thus, the socio-economic divide widens.
Well, Tim McVeigh thought it important enough to blow up a bunch of innocent people (including children) in Oklahoma City.
So, he did try to start a war over the Branch Dividians.
“indeed the rise of domestic terrorism” should be domestic TERRORISTS. Sheesh.
I call people who hurl racial and homophobic epithets at, and spit upon, duly elected officials of Congress, terrorists – not to mention those who throw bricks through their offices. Damn straight I do. I also call them cowards as well. They’re turning this great nation into a third world country.
You think this kind of behavior is helpful to your cause?
Starry, Starry , Starry. It concerns me that you would define anyone in this country who is concerned for their rights as individuals and freedom a terrorist. In doing so, you only serve to raise the volume and the separation. Freedom does not have to be a pretty, politically correct thing and your desire to have it so smacks of other models of government not the United States.
Is it helpful to “our” cause. Hmm. When Stokley Carmicheal told MLK that the Panthers would scare whitey into MLK’s camp, MLK did not dissassociate himself from the anger of the community. The country did respond – to both. Perhaps the current Administration could veer right to reduce the tensions and perhaps you could use the term “terrorists” more responsibly
Understood, but there is a significant difference, The Republican increase in the national debt is almost entirely due to the war, Katrina and Rita – and both parties supported them. Things that have an end- to include the first stimulus. That is not the case under this Administration, which has doubled down for government intrusion into the economy. Even if you buy into the argument that the second stimuls was needed (again with Bi-partisam support) , this Administration has then used the pay-backs to support a whole range of social and unrelated bills without bi-partisam support.
First, I want to unequivocally state that I do not agree nor support vandalism in general, or the “window war” specifically. I do support civil disobedience. However, if one engages in such, one must be responsible for the results.
Starry, Mike Vanderboegh is most definitely NOT a Tea Party member. Sorry, no matter how hysterical you get over the Tea Party, it will not change the fact that the Tea Party is made up of peaceful, average Americans protesting the actions of their elected officials. Vanderboegh predates the Tea Party.
To explain Ruby Ridge in better detail than I can here: http://reason.com/archives/1993/10/01/ambush-at-ruby-ridge. In a nutshell, the BATFE and the FBI apparently tried to entrap a man, Randy Weaver on weapons charges. His wife was shot while standing in a doorway holding their baby by a sniper of the FBI. 6 of the 8 charges were dropped. And the government was reprimanded by the courts for undue force and conspiracy. A 14 year old boy and one federal agent was also killed. A more detailed account, showing the confusion of the testimony is here. (I did not read the whole thing, so am not familiar with the details.): http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/gangsters_outlaws/cops_others/randy_weaver/1.html.
Waco is used as an example of undue force against a fringe element. Koresh was targeted by the ATF for weapons charges. He routinely went to town and could have been arrested at any moment. The ATF were in danger of being disbanded and used this as a high visibility op to keep their funding. It went horribly wrong. Any child abuse, determined to be that Koresh slept with underage teens, could have been handled by local law enforcement. The entire operation was handled badly and then covered up. The scene was bulldozed before Inspector generals could investigate for an after action report. Here is an account of it: http://reason.com/archives/1999/10/04/what-happened-at-waco.
I watched it on television at the time. The entire operation was, as we say in the Navy, a Charlie Foxtrot. I could have planned that operation better. It was obvious to anyone that actually watched the live footage that the authorities lied about their actions during the subsequent “explanations” and investigations.
Tim McVeigh was an anti-government nut job. But he “justified” his actions as retaliation to the above incidents. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/may/06/mcveigh.usa
Clinton’s DOJ were interested in high profile gun seizures. They felt that there were too many “dangerous” weapons and fringe elements out there. The ATF was in danger of being reabsorbed into the FBI. The ATF have never been keen on separatists that keep arms.
This is why some people are willing to commit violence against a government that they don’t trust. Did that answer your question?
About that “gun round up myth”, are you saying that Obama, Feinstein, Boxer, Pelosi, Schumer, et al, ARE NOT interested in gun control? Lautenberg is the “go to” guy for gun control bills. So far he has proposed a bill to close the non-existent gun show loophole, build a national registration database, give the Attorney General the power to deny 2nd Amendment rights based on names on a secret list, and a bill denying 2nd Amendment rights to misdemeanor convictions of domestic battery.
Feinstein and Boxer routinely put in bills to register and ban weapons. Democrats of all types speak of further control of firearms. Both want to reinstate the “Assault Weapons Ban” as does AG Holder.
So, get your weapons now. Btw, 14 MILLION NICS background checks were conducted in 2009. That means that, at least, 14 million firearms were purchased from dealers. And this year is about the same…..
I love America. What a country!
Timothy McVeigh was a murderous sick puppy who has been executed by the state.
Who cares what he thought. What is he thinking now he is one fried expletive deleted.
@Moon-howler
Amen.
That’s a very valid point you make. I don’t disagree at all.
I’ll second that “Amen” in regards to what MH wrote!
Third Amen to what MH wrote, but I am still not commfortable – after all these years – with what the ATF was engaged in and did there.
@PWC Taxpayer
Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms should be the name of a convenience store, not a government agency.
Hey, call me paranoid… but, on top of the Biden F-bomb — your liberal crazies are starting to let go of the bag!
Rep. John Dingell (D-MI), the Dean of the House of Representatives for being the longest serving member of the body (he was first elected in 1955, succeeding his father, Rep. John Dingell, Sr.), made an amazing admission during a live telephone interview with Detroit WJR News/Talk 760 radio talk show host Paul W. Smith on Smith’s show Monday morning, March 22, 2010. The night before, Dingell had been a featured speaker at the Democrat Congressional leadership victory press conference after Obamacare passed the House.
In response to a question posed by Smith, Dingell said:
Let me remind you this [Americans allegedly dying because of lack of universal health care] has been going on for years. We are bringing it to a halt. The harsh fact of the matter is when you’re going to pass legislation that will cover 300 [million] American people in different ways it takes a long time to do the necessary administrative steps that have to be taken to put the legislation together to control the people.
Yes, I guess it does. The Germans were much more efficient.
Do you realize that Vanderboegh is trying to stop more violence? There ARE people out there that have reached a line in the sand and the arrogant fools refuse to accept the fact that the Constitution is a life and death matter to some people.
From his post, some excerpts:
John Locke said it best: http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2010/03/to-all-modern-sons-of-liberty-this-is.html
“Whenever the legislators endeavor to take away and destroy the property of the people, or to reduce them to slavery under arbitrary power, they put themselves into a state of war with the people, who are thereupon absolved from any further obedience.”
“This act will order all of us to play or pay, and if we do not wish to, we will be fined.
If we refuse to pay the fine out of principle, we will be jailed.
If we resist arrest, we will be killed.
They will send the Internal Revenue Service and other federal police to do this in thousands of small Wacos, if that is what it takes to force us to submit.”
Yet, given the federal mandarins’ willful ignorance of our very existence and conviction that we have no opinions that they are bound to respect, is there anything that can be done to prevent civil war?
Yes, there is.
We can emulate the Sons of Liberty of old.
We can break their windows.
This is the message that modern Sons of Liberty should get across to the Royalists of today. Now. Before we have to resort to rifles to resist their “well intentioned” tyranny.
Soooo, ……
Question: How does Congress address those concerns? What do you think would have happened if the “Window War” had actually had those thousands of windows broken? Many Americans are desperate for a way to yell, “STOP! WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU DOING?” but the politicians in DC are too wrapped up in their agendas and power mad to hear.
Question: How should Americans react to perceived tyranny? When is it a time to take up arms, or commit civil disobedience/directed vandalism? Is it better to start at the apparent approach to tyranny or wait until it is obvious and hardfast? In the traditions of this country, shouldn’t the politicians that are elected, be reminded from time to time that the government should be afraid of its citizenry instead of vice versa. I mean, we are supposed to be a FREE nation.
Do you realize that Vanderboegh is trying to stop more violence? There ARE people out there that have reached a line in the sand and the arrogant fools refuse to accept the fact that the Constitution is a life and death matter to some people.
From his post, some excerpts: http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2010/03/to-all-modern-sons-of-liberty-this-is.html
John Locke said it best:
“Whenever the legislators endeavor to take away and destroy the property of the people, or to reduce them to slavery under arbitrary power, they put themselves into a state of war with the people, who are thereupon absolved from any further obedience.”
“This act will order all of us to play or pay, and if we do not wish to, we will be fined.
If we refuse to pay the fine out of principle, we will be jailed.
If we resist arrest, we will be killed.
They will send the Internal Revenue Service and other federal police to do this in thousands of small Wacos, if that is what it takes to force us to submit.”
Yet, given the federal mandarins’ willful ignorance of our very existence and conviction that we have no opinions that they are bound to respect, is there anything that can be done to prevent civil war?
Yes, there is.
We can emulate the Sons of Liberty of old.
We can break their windows.
This is the message that modern Sons of Liberty should get across to the Royalists of today. Now. Before we have to resort to rifles to resist their “well intentioned” tyranny.
Soooo, ……
Question: How does Congress address those concerns? What do you think would have happened if the “Window War” had actually had those thousands of windows broken? Many Americans are desperate for a way to yell, “STOP! WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU DOING?” but the politicians in DC are too wrapped up in their agendas and power mad to hear.
Question: How should Americans react to perceived tyranny? When is it a time to take up arms, or commit civil disobedience/directed vandalism? Is it better to start at the apparent approach to tyranny or wait until it is obvious and hardfast? In the traditions of this country, shouldn’t the politicians that are elected, be reminded from time to time that the government should be afraid of its citizenry instead of vice versa. I mean, we are supposed to be a FREE nation.
I just read the comments over there. I want you to know that many of THEIR supporters are commenting as “WTF? Do WHAT? OVER THIS?”
So, I hope that this puts your minds at ease.
Remember what I said about canaries in the coal mine. These guys are it. And they made a noise. Remember, its the ones that don’t telegraph their intentions that you have to worry about.
Cargo, I am not sure where you are talking about….re over there.
Here’s the problem. I am sure some of my relatives thought there was government tyranny in the 60’s. Virginia must have thought so too. They enacted massive resistance.
Go back 100 years before that. We all knew what happened then.
My husband spent most of his childhood and teen years in Maryland. Listening to Maryland my Maryland, one assumes it is all about the Revolution, at least I did. Try on the last Verse:
Most Marylanders will tell you that the depot’s heel was not the heel of Great Britain but instead, the boot heel of the USA whose federal troops put the state under martial law so they would not seceed or hold uprisings.
So what do you do? Many, many people like health care. I have never talked to a person who hated their Medicare. Sometime you are the bug, sometime you are the windshield.
Over there is at Vanderboegh’s site. I put the link in the prior post.
I don’t believe that the health care bill is the total issue, per se. I think that the issue was the arrogance, bribery, and tricks of Congress, and then they added the mandate forcing one to buy insurance. Medicare is a done deal and we grew up with it. But there was resistance then, just as there was to social security. My mother said that she would rather have had all that social security and medicare taxes back and let her provide for herself.
Freedom is lost in small steps. We are less free than we were 100 years ago. Of course, all of the restrictions are for our own good, or to help us…….
Are our lives more comfortable? Perhaps. Only the individual can decide if more “security” is worth more government.
What to do about the health care problems? Don’t know enough to answer it. But lets try something new. Use the market to provide health insurance. Let people choose what they need. Get employers out of it, let them pay larger salaries instead. Business would love to not have that bill. Insurance companies, hospitals, doctors can all set up systems to allow payments, insurances, etc. Right now the market is stifled.
But it won’t happen. Politicians demand control so that they can be seen “helping.” They don’t trust the public and the markets to help themselves.
You guys had 8 years to push those ideas through. This health care business as been in the works for a long long time. I don’t know how I feel about any of it. I don’t know what it is going to cost me.
If you are sitting out in center field though, both parties look arrogant…extremely arrogant.
The Republicans are having the same affect on the Democrats and probably the Independents if my family is any example. (and friends) I am just sensing a meanness.
I don’t know what to do about them either. But I know something needed to be done. Too many people were in a bad way over this issue.
Thanks for clarifying Vanderboegh. Tell me who that person really is and where they fit into the grand scheme of things.
oh and you got hung up because of links. It says 3 will do it but sometimes 2 is all it takes.
Moon, I see that one post showed up twice. Please delete it.
Moon, push what ideas? At the time, health care reform was not a priority. A lot of the health care “emergency,” I believe, is ginned up. It was then exacerbated by millions losing employment based health care.
The problem is that no politician wants to fix it. They just want more control of it. If the GOP was smart, they would branch out and try to coordinate with private enterprise and set up pools or solutions for those, especially children, with pre-existing or very expensive problems. But they won’t. Too many GOP pols are afraid of being seen as “cozy” with private enterprise. They call themselves “capitalists” but are afraid to utilize or coordinate with it.
Heck, Herbert Hoover, as Sec. Of the Interior was able to rescue the Mississippi River Valley from floods using private enterprise. And did it better than FEMA did for Katrina. But, under FDR, private enterprise was demonized and has not recovered.