How dare they!
Yesterday, during Supervisor’s time, (# 8 at 5:06) John Stirrup asked for a directive to send the AG a letter thanking him for protecting their rights because he has filed suit against the federal government. John Jenkins apparently was the only one with stones enough to object. The directive was voted on and passed along party lines. There no citizen input.
Mr. Jenkins called the move political and said it should not be part of the governance of that body. Mr. Jenkins should be commended for speaking out and both he and Mr. Principi should be praised for going on record in opposition to this incredible outlandish show of partisanship. The BOCS has absolutely nothing to with the HCR law that just passed. They are a local governing body. If they want to individually write to the AG and kiss up to him, that is their business. Do it on their own time. They do not have the right to do it for the entire county and they do not speak for me.
They have pulled an end run. Those 6 Republican supervisors do not speak for me. They do not speak for all the citizens of Prince William County. They did not poll the citizens. There was no warning. Now my name goes to an attorney general whom I did not vote for praising him for wasting my money on something I disapprove of doing.
Didn’t they learn a lesson from the initial immigration resolution of July 10, 2007? John Stirrup must have that tingle going down his leg over this one. He seemed almost as giddy introducing the directive as he did that night we all saw him on TV at the Republican convention.
Stirrup, Stewart. May, Nohe, Caddigan, and Covington: You do not speak for me. Write your own suck up letter but do not do it in MY name.
I TEND to agree with you, but I see the arguement on the other side. I think that in fact the Federal Government is taking further control of our lives and eroding our rights, and I’m glad our AG is arguing against it.
To me the question is just whether it’s cool to do this when so many of your constituents resent it, so on balance I say hold off on this type of unproductive nonsense.
The majority of voters in PWC voted for Obama. He made no secret of wanting to legislate health care reform. There was no citizen input before that directive passed.
I believe the behavior on the part of the BOCS was outrageous and audacious. They were speaking for themselves over something they had not polled their constituents on. The vote was meaningless, partisan bullshit. They have nothing to do with what happens at the national level other than as individuals.
They overstepped. They don’t have the right to go there as an elected body.
“Mr. Jenkins called the move political and said it should not be part of the governance of that body. Mr. Jenkins should be commended for speaking out and both he and Mr. Principi should be praised for going on record in opposition to this incredible outlandish show of partisanship. The BOCS has absolutely nothing to with the HCR law that just passed. They are a local governing body. If they want to individually write to the AG and kiss up to him, that is their business. Do it on their own time. They do not have the right to do it for the entire county and they do not speak for me.
They have pulled an end run. Those 6 Republican supervisors do not speak for me. They do not speak for all the citizens of Prince William County. They did not poll the citizens. There was no warning. Now my name goes to an attorney general whom I did not vote for praising him for wasting my money on something I disapprove of doing.”
….doesn’t this reflect the same thing many posters on here have said with regards to healthcare reform? We don’t want it, polls show we don’t want it, the vote went along a partisan line, citizens didn’t really have any input (just big pharma et al)… But, HCR passed in my name and on my dime.
Yes, it plays both ways.
I hadn’t planned to publish my letter to the Chairman and the members of the BOCS; however, I might as well share it (and take the “slings and arrows” that will follow – while fully respecting your 1st Amendment right to throw them). Personally, I am more upset by the principle involved than the subject of the action. For the record, I was in the “pass something, anything, democratic proposal, republican proposal (I was a big fan of Lamar Alexander’s proposal at the President’s health care summit)” camp knowing (IMHO) that having something we could amend later is better than another forty years of no action. There are just too many Americans suffering out there to ignore moving forward with Health Care Reform; however, that isn’t the focus of my profound disappointment with the Board’s action.
Mr. Chairman and members of the Board of County Supervisors,
Thank you for recognizing the Viet Nam Veterans at the Prince William County, Virginia Board of County Supervisors (BOCS) meeting on 23 March 1020. Well Done!
That being said, I was profoundly disappointed by the purely political and partisan move by the Board of County Supervisors vote to send a letter under County letterhead to the Virginia Attorney General (AG) supporting his initiative to challenge the recently passed Heath Care Reform legislation. It passed in a party line vote 6-2. I am disappointed that our elected officials opted to represent only some of the residents in the Community without public comment or input before taking this action. The absence of announcing this “surprise move” on the Agenda allowing time for public input and comment indicates that perhaps this oversight was intentional. I agree with Jenkins comment recognizing this as a purely political move.
Had you opted to do this as a group of Private Citizens, under the banner of the Prince William County Republican Party, The Tea Party Patriots, or some other Group, I would defend your First Amendment right to Free Speech with equal passion. When you do it as a body of elected officials purporting to represent the entire community (and me), it is my opinion this is a violation of my First Amendment rights because I and others did not have the opportunity to review the proposed instrument and voice our opinion. Simply put, you silenced us… with extreme prejudice. It is my opinion that you have infringed on the First Amendment rights of Prince William County citizens by not announcing this initiative in advance on the BOCS agenda to allow for public comment and suggest you correct this Constitutional oversight. If, after the public hearing process is complete, the majority of input favors such an action I will certainly defer to the majority. I understand the concept of the “loyal opposition” as our Founding Fathers had intended to preserve the Republic in the face of disagreement among men and women of good will.
I fear that perhaps the Prince William County Republican Party has made a strategic decision to create another cultural war like we experienced in the last election. You have already opened the first (or perhaps second) battle positioning the Republican members of the BOCS as that war’s Generals (and attempting to silence, ridicule, or question the Patriotism of those who might disagree). I’m an independent voter who supports candidates on past performance and future promises. As you know, I have supported you (Chairman Stewart) in the past with both my time and my treasure and serve as an appointed member of your current Budget Committee. I had hoped that our experience would take us out of the divisive political theater we experienced in the past; however, this “first shot” in another cultural war bodes otherwise. Let us talk about our differences in a civil manner rather than fight with one another. There are forces at work in the world who would like to destroy our grand experiment in Democracy. I suggest we not help those forces with divisive strategies designed to polarize our citizens. I would not like history to remember us as the Generation that poisoned the well of Liberty.
You have asked the County Attorney to review this matter. I suggest that the County Attorney review whether it is appropriate for an elected body to use their positions for purely political purposes and advise the BOCS appropriately. It is my opinion that Sovereign Immunity does not apply in cases such as this when an action clearly violates the bounds of an elected official’s office. It is my opinion that the action you are about to take is clearly not a legitimate Governmental Function for the Prince William County Board of County Supervisors. Moving this action to a private entity would eliminate any potential conflict.
I ask that you and the Republican members of the Board not simply represent some of the people all of the time. I propose that you focus on representing the majority of the people all of the time. We call that “Democracy”. I think you know what we call the alternative. Community response to this letter will tell me and others whether or not the cultural wars have begun… yet again. I pray that I am wrong.
Respectfully,
Al
While I’m glad that the AG is taking on the feds, I agree that the BOCS should not have sent an OFFICIAL letter. If the individual supervisors want to thank or denigrate him, go for it.
Cargosquid, Ditto.
I want to see leadership. If this is the “new center of Northern Virginia” then act like it. Stop wasting time and money on a pissing match, it is bad for business, bad for PWC. No one wants to base their operations in a county that looks like a bunch of [no, don’t say it]. Prince William County has the potential of being a regional if not national leader in innovations in health care and the NEW WAYS to deliver it that save money and improve the health of citizens. But the BOCS wants to blow it all on seeing who has the biggest [DON’T SAY IT]….Sorry, I’m a City of Manassas resident, and I’m about to come to the county’s Neighborhood Conference on Saturday at the McCoart Center. I’ll be interested to see what people in the county neighborhoods think about their leadership. And I would hope our City Council wouldn’t do something like that.
@cargosquid
@Red Dawn
Great minds think alike…
@Al
However, I just read Marinm’s post. She has a point about health care…..
Marinm, in an unrelated item, you mentioned “hey, we need to go target shooting together.”
Contact me at my email: [email protected]. Maybe we can set it up.
Yes, but he said he’d do it in a bipartisan manner. Then, Pelosi immediately said forget that – she’s not interested in Republican input or votes – and she said that very early on in 2009. that might not (and maybe isn’t) Obama’s fault, but it set the tone for what was to follow.
And, I’m not sure PWC voters would vote for Obama by such a wide margin now if we held the election today. They may have wanted healthcare reform, but they may not have wanted it done the way it was done.
Of course, no one can make that statement conclusively. And, I don’t disagree with you about no citizen input before the BOCS passed that directive to send that letter to the AG.
Good point. And, Pelosi and the Democrats have basically said they are speaking for all Americans in regards to healthcare reform. Well, they aren’t speaking for me.
I do agree about that – it was wrong for the BOCS to as a whole send an official letter.
The majority of voters in PWC voted for Obama.
Yes, and an even larger majority of voters in PWC voted for the AG that filed the suit.
As for the garbage of “Not in my name” Grow up! If the PWC BOCS sending a do-nothing letter is your biggest gripe about the health care bill. How do you think the people who opposed the bill feel? Not in my name? How about “Not from my wallet!”
Well majority rules, but IMO the way this all happened (“Health care reform” that doesn’t address cost containment) was the exact opposite of leadership and the exact opposite of good government.
Very interesting — very partisan political — and apparantly a very self serving public letter there Al. I missed the paragraph where you resigned in protest – particularly after publically threatening the BOCS itself.
You are not seriously asking for a referendum or even public comment are you? That would be a precedent that would truly bring government to a halt – if it was ever honored by a Democratic sponsored initiative or majority — which I doubt. Oh, and its not necessary, there was a super majority vote on the letter by the BOCS. I also liked your not-so-subtle threat regarding soveriegn immunity – from what, acting as a majority of the County Board in support of the State of Virginia?
So, its a meaningless political action that expresses the views of the majority of the politically elected members of the Board – so what. If there is opposition by Jenkins – let him send his own letter.
The BOCS does not represent you or Moon – ok, it represents me on this issue. Now, as Marnim notes, you are getting a good taste of how Obamacare feels to the majority of Americans (excluding the 18 million illegals, and the 40 million freeloaders seeking free health care that are also in the polls). Now, that was purely partisan politics that will be addressed this November!
This is not the thread about health care. This is the thread about the BOCS acting in a paritisan manner to support the AG. They voted to do it without citizen input under the letter head of the Board of County Supervisors for PWC. That is my objection.
They may voice their own opinions pro or con. It simply is not the business of the BOCS as a body to write a letter of praise. They do not speak for the us on this subject.
Marin, I think you have missed the entire point. And btw, Marin is male.
Visitor, watch how you talk to people, especially when the people happen to be me.
Taxpayer, they are elected to govern the county, not comment on National legislation as a body. I don’t care how they feel personally. When they draft a letter like that, it speaks for all of us about a matter that is outside their purview.
They need to stick to their own business.
They may write under their own party or name.
@Moon-howler
No, this is County business and supporting the State’s reaction to Obamacare and its mandates, enforcement, and costs — to the County — that Obama is not talking about is also the County’s business. Forget the freedom and stretch of the Federal government for a minute (as if either of us could in opposition to one another) are you saying that it is inappropriate for the county to officially react to a State initiative? No, thats not it, its just that you don’t agree with it as an advocate of Obamacare.
Memo to BOCS of PWC:
Your side lost the 2008 election. Most of your constituents voted for Obama, who did nothing more than honor a campaign promise.
Get over it.
Please note that my letter to the BOCS was about process. I think I only mentioned healthcare once (in passing)m. I am surprised that Republicans who defend the Constitutioon as a core value (check the PWC website) would be so quick to take away my First Amendment right to free speech. Since this is the second time this month it has happened to me (and others), I remain profoundly disappointed. (Blackberry – apologies for spelling and grammer – Cargosquid – would love to go shooting, I have some 9mm and .45 ammo to burn up. I’ll contact you).
Moon, an advocate of Obamacare? I sure don’t recall her speaking in favor of or against your republican term of “Obamacare”.
Let the Stupidvisors write their own personal letter on behalf of themselves, their family, or political affiliations. They should not speak for me on this matter. I would NEVER thank Kookanelli for anything on the face of the earth.
Taxpayer, listen to the vulture. I have never said I was a supporter of the HCR legislation. In fact, I believe I stated I was ambivalent, or words to that effect.
No, it isn’t their business to address health care as a body politic. They may do so under their party or their own names. They do not have the right to speak for the entire county citizentry.
Excellent letter, Al. And you make a good point–its about process.
This is actually an interesting point.
That’s something that I totally agree with. It is clear to many people that the majority of people did not want Healthcare reform enacted in its current form. Of course, that is being ignored. Yes, everyone wants healthcare reform, but not the way it seems to have been implemented.
OK, I wrote my post about healthcare before seeing you said this.
If this issue of writing a letter of thanks to the AG on BOCS letterhead had been put to referendum and it passed…different story. I would still be asking what a local board has to do with national laws.
I would even feel less adamant about this if there had been a public hearing–any form of public input. They just decided behind the scenes to do this…without regard for any opposing view.
They can’t even balance the freaking state budget without stealing from the state workers pension fund. The State cannot afford frivolous lawsuits that are simple posturing.
I actually don’t care what it is over. If the BOCS wanted to write and say that Bill Clinton was the best Secretary of State spouse of all time, I would still oppose it. Who cares what this board thinks of Secretary of state spouses.
That’s ok GR. You at least caught it which is more than I can say for the BOCS. Only John Jenkins and Principi caught it yesterday. It wasn’t in their purview to like or dislike what the AG was doing as a body of supervisors.
It was an extremely partisan move on Stirrup’s part. He is like that. I expect no better. however, I have higher expectations of Mike, Marty, Maureen, and Wally. I am very disappointed. At least pretend to represent all the people of Prince William County.
@Moon-howler
They are representing the people of Prince William County – in both the short and long term.
Why kiss the AG ass? The GA passed HB10, and now he as AG is acting on it. That is the job he signed up for when he was campaigning. Why praise someone for doing the job they wanted and fought hard to get? How this guy could even be elected dog catcher escapes me.
I hope the PWCBOS realizes people won’t forget these sorts of things when the 2011 election season is upon us. Furthermore, we should have candidates from both parties and Independents running for supervisor. Enough of some of them running unopposed. I hope your reading this Wally, Maureen and Marty. That means you!
@PWC Taxpayer
PWC Taxpayer… if they truly thought they were representing the people of Prince William County, this item would have been published on the agenda in advance for public comment at the BOCS meeting (as is our process) vice being added as a “walk-on” at the last minute for quick approval over the objections of some of the members of the BOCS and many of the members of the Community. If our BOCS had conviction in their course and confidence in their actions, they would not have chosen this strategy. That is my issue.
I’m a big fan of Transparency in Government. This isn’t it. We need to “fix” that. Of course, I respect your opinion… I just disagree with it.
@PWC Taxpayer
PWC Taxpayer, I just caught your note asking me why I hadn’t resigned. The Budget Committee has fulfilled it’s obligation and has no more meetings. I’m just guessing here; however, I’m guessing I won’t be invited to participate next year.
They were not elected to represent them on the national or the state level. They were elected to represent them locally, in Prince William County. That’s just the cold bare facts, even if you don’t care for them.
I understand the AG, when practicing law, tried to reverse a restraining order against a woman whose life was being threatened. Shame on him if that is true.
There are 3 more who need to watch their step also: Stirrup, Stewart and Mike May who I just sang glowing praises about. That didn’t last long.
@Al, and if you aren’t asked, that would be small and petty and political.
One more piece of evidence that the BOCS does whatever the hell it wants to do, pretending to represent all of us, and now, even misleading Richmond that we all agree with the AG.
I could care less about the content of the letter, party politics, whether or not Obama won the election or if Stirrup claims to be the second Jesus Christ. The point is–DON’T SPEAK FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE NOT AUTHORIZED YOU TO DO SO.
@Posting As Pinko
I’ll exercise my own first amendment right. The supervisors don’t speak for me at a state and national level. They need to stick to the business that they were elected to do. If they want to dabble in state and national polictis, they should run for those offices.
@Vigilant Vulture
I completely agree and hope my little temper tantrum communicated that in some way.
I do find it amusing that people are starting to understand the anger and hurt feelings that we’ve had in trying to push back on ObamaCare. It sucks having your government not listen to you, not care when it does ‘hear’ you, and do what it wants to do regardless of the law or public opinion?
I’m not trying to say I told you so but when you give govt the power to do things on our behalf because government knows best – you get what we get.
Now, a question for everyone. Not to say I agree with what the BOCS did (btw, TY Cucc!!) but how is this really different than a resolution to thank or acknowledge the Boy Scouts, or CARE, or a church, or any civic group..? Those don’t have public comment or rarely do. Should we pass a citizens amendment that the BOCS is no longer able to have a county-wide opinion on anything in ‘our’ names? Not being flippant – I’m asking the question.
Oh come on – of course they were. They represent the interests of the County and Obamacare represents a clear and present danger to the County and the State – in terms of budgets, services, enforcement, economic impacts to our community, the impact of debt – the list goes on and on. Its more political for the Jenkins to abdocate that concern. as a party line voter on the board. Who else – some county referendum to be taken – when, a vote based on who’s at a BOCS meeting or a bogger vote? Get serious.
You know, I’m thinking we need Term Limits for our local Government.
I believe there’s a certain arrogance that develops over time as people forget the reason they ran for office and start concentrating on raising the money and power to stay in office. Regarding the act in question, (IMHO) there was a bit of hubris involved that probably resulted from too much time behind the Dias. I am guessing that spending too much time “looking down” on one’s constituents perhaps affects one’s attitude towards serving them if allowed to remain “up there” too long (John Jenkins being the notable exception… I don’t know how he maintains in touch with all of us; however, he does).
Perhaps terms should be of defined duration so they may shrug off special interests and stop worrying about re-election. After all, it is a low paying part time job. Why not spread the call to public service around to keep refreshing our local Government with new ideas and fresh thinking? This isn’t about parties or personalities, this is about the process. I wouldn’t care who is sitting up there as long as I know they won’t be devoting their free time to “remaining seated.” Does anyone know the process for creating a referendum on this issue? Of course, there is one other way to enforce term limits… in the voting booth (or, more accurately, at the digital voting device… that just doesn’t sound as good).
@marinm
The AG is hardly the same as the Boy Scouts and other organizations. They are organizations and charities, not politicians. I do think you’ve posed an interesting question. I have no problem with resolutions for civic organizations for their good deeds. However, I don’t feel the same way when it comes to politicians.
@marinm
You know, the Boy Scouts are a real issue. I’m an Eagle Scout and I am unhappy with the current focus on the program. In fact, I get irritated every time my Supervisor, Marty Nohe, gives them money and only recently brought to his attention that I don’t like our Discretionary funds. I can decide to whom I wish to donate, thank you.
You will notice that yesterday’s recognition of Viet Nam Veterans was on the agenda for all to see and available for public comment. Of course, no one objected (God bless them all and I thank them for their service – note that I did thank the Chairman for doing a great job recognizing them). It is an example of how the process should work. Advertise the actions on the public agenda, consider public comment, and vote.
While some would like to turn this into a conversation about health care reform, it isn’t. That’s a diversion. The issue is process and transparency in Government. If you accept this model, imagine the possibilities for other decisions in the future. I don’t.
Marin, thanking the scouts or the vets isn’t political. This was political. That’s the difference. This directive was about legislation that has just become the law of the land.
taxpayer, you are doing pure political spin for your point of view. It isn’t working.
Tell me why you think the local bocs should have a say in federal government as a body politic. Any local bocs. Let’s say it is one that is 4 democrats and 4 republicans.
@VV,
having spent some time at the General Assembly watching sausage made you can see how many times sporting teams, civic associations, people, past politicians, etc are all thanked or otherwise recognized by the Commonwealth. if I’m hearing this arguement correctly – do we outlaw that? Do we tell the General Assembly that they are no longer able to speak for us in that regard because they may recognize a person or group that one, a few or even a majority of voters do not like?
It’s an interesting rabbit hole to delve into..
Al, I think Scouts should be taught how to hunt, fish, escort little ol ladies across a road, bandage wounds, find a location on a map, make a shelter, prepare food in a hostile environment and be prepared for service with the organized and unorganized Virginia and federal militia by the age of 16. But, thats just my opinion. 🙂 Anything else is just ‘fluff’.
Mind you, I’m not turning this into a HCR discussion as those questions now belong to the judicial system. I am however showing a parallel for those that feel strongly against the BOCS by showing a comparison to how I felt with regard to the health care debate. If the analogy doesn’t work – fine. But, I think many ‘get’ the analogy and understand how its two different topics but really the same thing.
“One more piece of evidence that the BCOS does whatever the hell it wants to do, pretending to represent all of us, and, now, even misleading Richmond that we all agree with the AG”
By George, she’s got it!! That ‘s exactly the idea the Tea Party was trying to get across about the Obama administration and the liberal Democrats in Congress!!!
Funny thats exactly how I feel about your posts on this issue.
Those of us who have worked in government know that there is a great deal of communication between Federal, State and locally elected – and professional – officials. They have a say every day. For the County to represent itself in support of a State initiaitive is not out of the ordinary any more than it is for a Congressman to write a letter to a Federal or State agency or to a Governor regarding an issue. Do they represent you regardless of your personal views – you bet they do – and without any referendums. He is our President even when bowing to the Japanese Emperor. But, Moon you raise an interesting question, what would / should have happened if the Board had a split vote vice the super majority vote that it did have on the letter. In that case, I would agree that an official letter would be problematic. A close or narrow vote – equally trying, but I guess the Democrats have set the example here since they went ahead and did it anyway.