Courtland Milloy is a Metro Section Washington Post columnist. The other day someone on this blog intimated that I would have no idea how a black person would feel and that I was insulting. Let’s look at it through someone’s eyes who meets all the qualifications. I have no opinion. Milloy has been with the Washington Post since 1983. I found the opinion piece to be rather humbling. I would like to highlight someone else’s opinion. We don’t have to agree with Milloy, but we need to view this incident through someone’s eyes other than our own. These are not MY sentiments but I feel it is imperative that we acknowledge how someone else might feel.
Washington Post 3/24/10
Courtland Milloy: Congressmen show grace, restraint in the face of disrespect
I know how the “tea party” people feel, the anger, venom and bile that many of them showed during the recent House vote on health-care reform. I know because I want to spit on them, take one of their “Obama Plan White Slavery” signsand knock every racist and homophobic tooth out of their Cro-Magnon heads.
I am sick of these people — and those who make excuses for them and their victim-whiner mentality.
They aren’t racists, the apologists say. They just don’t like deficits and government takeover of health care. So what does using vile epithets for black or gay congressmen have to do with that? The tea party people didn’t refer to white Democrats using racial epithets. No one yelled “white trash” or “redneck cracker” at any of those congressmen. And none of their own ever stands up and declares that such practices are morally wrong.
Reps. John L. Lewis (D-Ga.), Emanuel Cleaver II (D-Missouri), James E. Clyburn (D-S.C.), Barney Frank (D-Mass.) and others deserve a hats off for their restraint and composure.
Cleaver told me: “I said to this one person, ‘You spat on me.’ I thought he was going to say, ‘Hey, I was yelling. Sorry.’ But he continuing yelling and, for a few seconds, I pointed at him and said, ‘You spat on me.’ ”
How about pointing and declaring: “Spit in my face, fist in yours”? But that’s just me.
Cleaver, 66, is a Methodist minister who organized the Kansas City chapter of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference (a civil rights organization founded by Martin Luther King Jr. and Ralph Abernathy).
Cleaver grew up in a house in Texas that had been used as a slave cabin only one generation before, became a congressman serving on the House committee on Homeland Security — and gets spit in the face from some tea party racist.
And he refuses to press charges, no less.
“I would prefer to believe that the man who allowed his saliva to hit my face was irrational for a moment,” Cleaver said.
Have mercy. The preacher walks the walk.
“What I saw on their faces, on the signs, what I was hearing, made me think, ‘This is not about health care,’ ” said Clyburn, 70, who is House majority whip. The son of a minister from Sumter, S.C., he also serves as leader of the House Democrats’ Faith Working Group.
“It reminds me of that period in our history right after Reconstruction,” Clyburn said, “when South Carolina had a black governor and the political gains were lost because of vigilantism, the rise of the Ku Klux Klan.”
Of course, black people are not supposed to have such memories. Forgive — and forget; that’s what we are supposed to do. See, we live in post-racial America now, with a black president and all. So, if anybody is racist, it’s black people.
The esteemed Stuart Taylor all but said as much in a 2008 column he wrote for the National Journal.
After discounting the racism at campaign rallies for the Republican presidential ticket, Taylor concluded, “The ugliest race-tinged comment by any prominent leader during this campaign came not from a Republican but from Rep. John Lewis, the Georgia Democrat. . . . Lewis accused McCain and Palin on October 11 of ‘sowing the seeds of hatred and division,’ likening them to George Wallace, the segregationist Alabama governor who created an ‘atmosphere of hate [in which] four little girls were killed.’ Lewis should be ashamed of himself.”
So, here we are, nearly two years later, and Lewis is walking a two-block gauntlet of white hate from the Capitol to the Cannon House Office Building. A racial epithet spews from a crowd being restrained by Capitol Police.
“It reminded me of photographs I saw of the jeering crowds when Central High was being integrated by the Little Rock 9 in 1957,” said Lewis, 70, a civil rights veteran and one of the nation’s most distinguished advocates for justice and racial quality.
“It also reminded me of the angry demeanor of white people when a group of us were being arrested in February 1960 in Nashville, during a civil rights demonstration. As we were being led to a police van, people lined the streets just like they were at the Capitol, and they were yelling ‘The niggers are coming!’ and ‘Go back to Africa!’ ”
There he goes again, remembering.
Makes me mad as hell.
Or perhaps the title should be: “Congressmen show grace, restraint in the face of alleged disrespect.”
If anyone showed disrespect, it was the Congressmen with their deliberate, giant-gavel-carrying, in-your-face stroll past the demonstrators. They can cry me a river. The whole 219 deserve contempt.
The title is straight from Milloy. Nothing was altered. The only words that are my own are the paragraph to tell what it was about. I guess I should go put them in italics.
I find it strange that people who weren’t there in a sea of people can say what happened and what didn’t happen. I have no idea what happened. I wasn’t there. I don’t find it strange that out of 20k people or 100k people of a million …pick a number….that 1 or 2 people wouldn’t misbehave. Perhaps I just have dealt with cruddier crowds than this one.
Whether it happened or not, it is being blown way out of proportion as an effort to silence protest.
And with that last comment, I shall join Rez and take my leave.
If you chose to personalize it Emma, I cannot help that.
Are you aware of the remark that was made to me? That’s the reason Courtland Milloy went up. I obviously wasn’t qualified to comment on such things and what I said was insulting. shrug.
I think everyone should have to view a situation through someone else’s eyes. I don’t know if it happened or not. It wouldn’t surprise me at all. If Bart Stupak is catching it, why wouldn’t the black caucus? And trust me, Stupak isn’t my favorite politician. However, what I heard directed at him is unconscionable.
Moon, please. I look at that column and think “race card” immediately. It is so bitter, so dedicated to bringing up the bad of the past and throwing it into the faces of the present. He is essentially saying that we in the Tea Party are a bunch of racist rednecks.
Well, Mr. Courtland Milloy, meet a white man who once spent years as the only white man among tens of thousands of Blacks and the only white person, teacher or student, in an entire school in a place that would make South Chicago look like the courtyard of a kingly palace. Years later I was the only white man in a police force covering a city of 3 million people. These were my friends and my brothers in danger, and they covered my back every day and night. They would have taken a bullet for me, and I would have taken a bullet for them. Now, Mr. Milroy, I am with the Tea Party because I love the freedom for which I fought for almost thirty years. I am offended, sir …offended at a generalization that is not dissimilar to those which were thrown at our Black citizens for several hundred years. I thought that most of us were finally getting past that. I guess I was mistaken.
I am not disagreeing with you, Wolverine. Perfectly natural response on your part. Perhaps his is also though.
As I said, this went up not to advance a point of view but to simply put up that third point of view which I am unable to show because I don’t have the qualifications.
I don’t know what happened in DC on Sunday. I wasn’t there. I am not willing to call one side (whatever that means) a liar. All I can do is POV it.
I will share this though…I read Milloy’s address to Elena before I put it up. I clearly stated it was his opinon. We can not like his point of view but I don’t think we can dismiss it. I do know this. He is not alone in his views. Many people in the black community share his views.
Wolverine, I think a whole lot of people of both races aren’t past it.
Yeah, you’re probably right, Moon. One can hope, however. My reaction to playing the “race card” is not very patient or forgiving because of my own background and because I have a “rainbow” family. Not long ago, some guy tried that on me after I complained rather strongly about the fact that he and his buddies were throwing a football around my car and had already put a dent in the hood and nearly sheared off the radio antenna. When he tried that race card on me , he got a blast that is probably making his ears ring to this day. A few days later his car was towed because he was violating parking regulations. He kept looking over at me like I had ordered the towing, which I had nothing to do with. I just hope he learned a lesson about playing the race card against people he does not know.
Courthland Milloy wrote a very good opinion. I agree with him 100%. When tea party people hurl racial epithets at black Congressmen, it is altogether clear and obvious that their anger has nothing to do with health care. Much of the resentment against health care comes from racism because the President is black.
Excuse me one moment, Moon.
Starryflights: You are, indeed, the squirrel running up and down the ash tree trying to stir up trouble.
Posted: March 24, 2010 01:51 PM
Right-Wing Terrorism Stoked by Conservative Leaders Again
It’s inexcusable and it’s unforgivably irresponsible how top-shelf conservative players like Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck and even some members of the congressional leadership are using coded and not-so-coded language that speaks directly to a small, but trigger-happy right-wing. Unlike the policy-driven arguments made by mostly pacifistic liberals during the Bush years, this language is a direct and precise emboldening of right-wing extremism — and terrorism. And the behavior from certain elements of the far-right can be defined as such. It’s terrorism. No gray area here. Right-wing terrorism.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-cesca/right-wing-terrorism-stok_b_511787.html
NY lawmaker Slaughter receives ‘snipers’ threat
(AP) – 8 hours ago
WASHINGTON — The Democratic chairwoman of an influential House committee says someone left her a voice mail threat that used the word “snipers.”
The lawmaker, Rep. Louise Slaughter, also says she had a brick thrown through her district office in Niagara Falls, N.Y.
Slaughter said Wednesday the snipers message was left on an answering machine at her campaign office. She said the U.S. Capitol Police, the FBI and local police departments were investigating.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5if3vtWW_ElxyhvJrP08JQ8ElF-nQD9EL8FG01
“coded and not so coded language”
Starryflights: I don’t know who is more squirrely, you or Bob Ceska at the Huff Post. “Coded and not so coded language” from Palin and Beck. Now, you’ve got me laughing. BTW, what’s your line on who really kllled JFK? And what really happened to the two little princes in the Tower of London? Zapped by a member of the Tea Party?
Keep looking for Obama’s birth certificate, Wolf. You’re doing an outstanding job.
Lawmakers concerned as health-care overhaul foes resort to violence
By Philip Rucker
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, March 25, 2010
The pitched battle over health care has unleashed a rash of vandalism and attacks directed at politicians, with at least 10 House Democrats reporting death threats or incidents of harassment or vandalism at their district offices over the past week.
Asked whether members are endangered, Hoyer said: “Yes. [There are] very serious incidents that have occurred.”
Senate Sergeant-at-Arms Terrance Gainer e-mailed senators and staffers Wednesday telling them to “remain vigilant.” Gainer, a former Capitol Police chief, said in an interview that the warning was meant to “assuage people’s fears.”
But House Democrats say they are unnerved.
“Our democracy is about participation,” Hoyer said. “Our democracy is about differing and debate and animated debate and passionate debate. But it is not about violence.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/24/AR2010032402122_2.html?hpid=topnews&sid=ST2010032402500
Starry,
Keep it up! You are the evidence that supports our point of view. Continuous blatant lies like “When tea party people hurl racial epithets at black Congressmen,” just show that you don’t care about the actual evidence.
This statement: “Right-Wing Terrorism Stoked by Conservative Leaders Again
It’s inexcusable and it’s unforgivably irresponsible how top-shelf conservative players like Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck and even some members of the congressional leadership are using coded and not-so-coded language that speaks directly to a small, but trigger-happy right-wing.” is such laughable slander that you should be ashamed. Palin and Beck unequivocal CONDEMN any violence.
Apparently you are so hate filled that when violence is condemned and both people say “Don’ t do it!, you hear, ” Let’s kill something!”.
“Kill the Bill!” is hate speech to you. Its code for racist thinking. Yes. Of course it is….
Please give us some of those coded and not so coded quotes that you know so much about. Please give us EVIDENCE of any of you accusations. Please show us ONE piece of evidence that either Beck or Palin or the Tea Party condoned or did violence.
That vandalism that occurred was allegedly caused by self described “Three Percenters.” Not the Tea Party.
Hoyer pontificates about debate and inclusion. Except that the Democrats did everything they could to PREVENT democratic debate and inclusion and ignored the interests of their constituents. And now people are angry. Big Surprise! I’m shocked! Shocked, I tell you.
There are angry people out there that believe that Congress is usurping power and ignoring the will of the people to push their own agenda. Some of the millions out there will commit crimes or voice threats. Tell me, are you ok with all of the threats that come out of your side of the political spectrum? Until I see blanket condemnation from you about that, then I will consider your opinion to be hypocritical.
“Look, a Squirrel!”
Starry, as I have told several people, you are trying to jerk people’s chains. It won’t work with Wolverine.
You are entitled to your own opinion but I am going to have to ask you to stop using it to bait people who might not see what you are doing, if for no other reason, you are causing me work and long hours.
I am going to ask again the question that many people have asked…are you and starry flights from the dark screen the same person?
Please try to make sure that comments are productive and are part of dialogue rather than just to gouge people. We have people of all political flavors here and most of us do pretty well at civil dialogue. That’s how I want the blog to run.
Thank you Moon. Apparently we were writing comments at the same time….
I had hoped that I would be able to put up a thread like this. Of course it isn’t my opinion. However, It was written by a black man in a major newspaper in the nation’s capital. I think that is significant in that the man has an audience. Milloy is not known for holding back.
Obviously, this perception, expressed by Milloy, is not a lone opinion crying in the wind. I think it is important to at least know this might be how at least some people perceive what is going on. Milloy admits wanting to swing a sign at someone’s head and is quite discriptive in his langugage informing us of those feelings. Yes, some might say racist.
When we have people shooting each other going down 95, perhaps it is a good idea to at least sit up and take notice that somone else might be pissed off also and why.
It does us no good to each stand on our own side of the street and scream at each other. That solves nothing and makes everyone hoarse. The dialogue has to be civil.
I am giving thought to simply taking down the Milloy thread. Maybe we can’t see things through anyone else’s eyes. I wasn’t even sure this country was ready for a black president. I still am not sure.
First, Wolverine thank you for your service – it was folks like you who stepped up and said no more to segregation and racial discrimination. Little did we know that the cost of equality of opportunity would be so high.
The race card is and will continue to be played here in full coordination with the Democrat led media frenzy about violence, in an effort to shift the discussion away from the merits of Obamacare and in an effort to dismiss the voices of reason and concern. This effort includes the adoption of this topic today. It does not matter that the incident happened or not, that with dozens of cameras present there is no proof of it or that the liberals in the media and on this blog will ignore the argument that their walk through the crowd was itself and attempt to provoke. Had a conservative group done that to a liberal demonstration the media would have charged Glenn Beck somehow with throwing gasoline onto a fire. Next are the emotional appeals of heart felt but soft headed liberalism – and that has already started too. Yes, let us also eliminate poverty, hunger, ignorance, homelessness and unemployment. Like the argument by those directly caught up in it, the need for more subsidized health care is now a right and an obligation — but the real agenda here is to prevent an argument about the policies and the costs. Orthodox liberals over the age of 60 are going to get their come-uppance when the $5000 Billion in cuts in Medicare (not Medicaid) takes effect.
@Moon-howler
The rules for conservatives arguing against soft-headed liberal, progressive policies in the media and on this blog are not the same as for liberals. I do not beleive that if I or others had used the language or tone – disrespect – of NMBbubba or Starry with Marinm that we would not have been asked to leave the site. If you agree with the argument you do not see the insult or the stupidity of the argument.
It was a long night, Cargo. Thanks for your input. And thanks to you and Wolverine for helping to keep tough conversation civil.
Taxpayer, please read the top and the words in italics. Then come down and read post #19.
Let’s just address your behavior. You have been rude to me on countless occassions. You are still here.
Cargo and Wolverine and I have disagreed on the most fundamental of ideas. However, neither of them have never been rude to me. Therefore, I will look at the over-all complaint with them.
Starry has been addressed.
I have no complaint with Bubba. She flew off the handle. Unless I have missed some major episode, it isn’t a daily gouge. She has a special needs child and I think perhaps she felt she needed to scream to get our attention. It was a one time event. I can accept that. She has every right to want the HCR legislation as the next guy has to to not want it.
Then how do you explain this?
Poll: Health care plan gains favor
By Susan Page, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON — More Americans now favor than oppose the health care overhaul that President Obama signed into law Tuesday, a USA TODAY/Gallup Poll finds — a notable turnaround from surveys before the vote that showed a plurality against the legislation.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2010-03-23-health-poll-favorable_N.htm
I will try to keep my tone down.
Thank you Starry.
Poll results will always go up and down. That is the ONLY poll I’ve seen showing approval. Google health care polls and you get a majority of negative reactions.
One always has to look at whom is buying the poll. USA Today has always been a supporter of the health care bill. A poll that shows increased approval, posted on the very day that the bill was signed, from a paper that supports the bill, is understandable.
I will point out, though, that poll does not contradict the quote of mine that you posted. It is a separate item. The poll includes those that hate the bill and Congressional actions.
Thank you very much, Starry. I think you bring a left leaning look at things that Elena and I don’t. DG isn’t here all that often. We need to see the side you bring…but we need you to perhaps be more of a diplomat. I appreciate your cooperation.
@Moon-howler
As expected. I will give you a bit of credit though, — our postings overlapped, you started to get to it while I was also reacting.
That said, if you are going to engage in the debate Ms Moderator, your comments and views, your logic and facts become fair game.
Here is a sample poll that contradicts the USA poll.
55% Favor Repeal of Health Care Bill
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/march_2010/55_favor_repeal_of_health_care_bill
But, it does not say who paid for the poll. I do not trust individual polls. I find that a more accurate picture can be found when looking at multiple polls from multiple sites, over time to detect a trend. And that trend was or is negative for the bill.
Hi, I am Moon-Howler. I am Cargo’s echo. snicker. He hits send before I do. (just kidding just kidding)
I think a good point to start on health care is what we like about it. I think everyone probably agrees that there are some good points to it.
There are at least as many – if not more – of your fellow Americans who favor the health care bill as oppose it. You need to respect that.
Oh, and Moon,
You don’t have to take down the thread. There is SO MUCH to comment on. I just don’t have time right now. The psychology that is illustrated in Miloy’s post is wonderful. Perception of the environment around you, filtered through past experiences, reactions based on personal prejudices, etc……mmmm, good times.
PWC Taxpayer, I have never said my views were sacrosanct. However, I am not going to tolerate rudeness directed at me.
This isnt the Progressive Insurance Commercial. No discounts for agreeing with me. However, unlike you, I don’t have a choice about being here. I am simply not going tolerate rudeness directed at Elena nor me.
And I hope you will comment, Cargo. Come back to it when you can give it your full attention.
Starry, I think you bring up an important point. I would say that at least half the Americans favor the bill. When you think about it, those who need the bill probably don’t have the time to take to the streets. We haven’t heard from those people in a demonstrative way. many of them are out working 2 jobs. And I think it is good that they have someone to speak for them.
Good point.. According to your own poll:
Daily Presidential Tracking Poll
Wednesday, March 24, 2010
The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Wednesday shows that 31% of the nation’s voters Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as President. Forty-two percent (42%) Strongly Disapprove giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of -11 (see trends).
The Approval Index rating today represents a seven-point gain for the President compared to a week ago.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll
A seven-point – how about that?
How about that? He’s got good PR. When only one media outlet doesn’t kowtow to the Obama administration, I find it fascinating that his approval rating is that low.
I agree with much of what Courtland Milloy said. Maybe it’s my age. It isn’t my race or sex.
Emma, yeah, how dare those people have the audacity to walk out in public as opposed to taking a tunnel!!!! And carrying that big weapon – a gavel!! OMG, someone could have been clubbed!
I feel like yanking a few chains this morning – oops, afternoon. I’ll be back after going to the grocery. I need a little red meat.
I completely sympathize and understand Mr. Milloy’s position. That, however,does not excuse HIS racism. I can literally hear the “Excuse me?” in reader’s minds. When I describe his attitude as racist, I mean that he automatically ascribed racism or bigotry to group predominantly consisting of white people. I went to the links in his article. The first one has been proven false for as much as you can prove a negative. The second went to a collection of Wash. Post photos of the rally. They were quite good. The only one that can be remotely related to HIS phrase was one that said “Vote NO. I don’t want to be a government slave.”
Now, he can be understandably excused for taking the word of the Black Caucus about racial slurs. They are, after all, his friends. However, there is enough video that contradicts THEIR slurs against the Tea Party. They, themselves were openly recording the crowd and have NOT presented evidence. Mr. Clyburn joins Mr. Miloy’s knee jerk reaction toward an angry, predominately white crowd, impugning them with racist overtones, though there were many black citizens in the crowd’s front row. (Why did none of the Black Caucus stop and engage with them?)
The reactions of Mr. Milloy and Mr. Clyburn are filtered through their memories of the Civil Rights Struggle. But they have fallen into the trap of equating any opposition to their goals as racism. Mr. Milloy tries to excuse his racism, in which he ascribes to himself and other black leaders the immunity of the charge of racism. The members of the Black Caucus charge Republicans with racism, and yet cannot see that this oversensitivity to racial victimization IS racism. “After discounting the racism at campaign rallies for the Republican presidential ticket,” is a perfect example. NO evidence of racism was that McCain’s rallies and HE would have been the FIRST and the loudest in denouncing any such.
I do understand that my usage is not perfect, but, I am unable to find another term that applies. I do not believe that Mr. Milloy or Mr. Clyburn hates white people or anything remotely like that. Their perceptions ARE valid. Their reality is just that. Theirs. Filtered through their experiences. But those experiences make them automatically ascribe racist motives or hatred to white people, especially those that are not of their political philosophy.
I just think that the current Democratic party is using their sensitivities as a weapon. The Democrats know that ANY mention of racism will be repeated ad nauseum and taken for gospel truth. Because everyone just knows that Republicans (and every member of the Tea Parties HAVE to be Republicans) are evil, racist, ignorant, Bible Thumping, Gun Toting, Rednecks. Even the gay, black, educated, Jewish, Muslim, and hoplophobic ones.
Let’s hope that the Tea Partiers learned a lesson from all this. They did great damage to their cause
There was nothing unconstitutional about the health care bill.
Starry,
In what way did the TEA Partiers do damage to THEIR cause? They only protested as is their right.
Starry, would it be ok with you if an upcoming Republican Congress mandated that, in order to protect your health, you must purchase a firearm? I mean, we are all harmed by crime. And increase possession of firearms has been shown to decrease incidents of violent crime. So, therefore, one must purchase a firearm. Oh, but only the special ones, approved by Congress. If you don’t, Congress will fine you. If you don’t pay that fine, IRS agents will take action, including arrest. If you resist arrest, you will be probably be shot.
This is why mandating insurance purchases is unconstitutional. That, and it IS against the Constitution. Congress passes unconstitutional bills ALL THE TIME.
Please. Show me the article of the Constitution that authorizes Congress to force me to buy insurance. Show me and I will join you in spreading that word.
I will read and not comment, Cargo. That was my intent on this one. I have very mixed emotions. re: Courtland Milloy
However,on your other question–show me where it says specifically a lot of things. I don’t think we can cherry pick what we like and hate. I never gave my permission to take medicaid taken out of my paycheck either. However, once day it appeared, or perhaps I hadn’t notice…and it never went away.
I did not want to mention medicaid and medicare as those are not new. But, technically, as best as I can determine, Congress has no authority to do that either. Now, the Supreme Court HAS ruled that those programs pass muster, but, the Supreme Court has been wrong before.
I think that many of the Court’s decisions are reached for either political reasons, or because negating a program would be too chaotic, in their eyes. That is one problem for needing a court case to challenge a problem. It may take years to reach SCOTUS.
As to commenting, I value your opinion as you do not have a knee jerk party line reaction to some of my more, shall we say…….wilder opinions…..
“I know how the “tea party” people feel, the anger, venom and bile that many of them showed during the recent House vote on health-care reform. I know because I want to spit on them, take one of their “Obama Plan White Slavery” signs and knock every racist and homophobic tooth out of their Cro-Magnon heads.
I am sick of these people — and those who make excuses for them and their victim-whiner mentality.”
I can’t believe I wrote that whole thing and missed the violence. That and the irony of the Left stating that the protesters had a victim-whiner mentatility.” Didn’t seem to be whining to me. Or victimized. Victims don’t scare anyone. And the Left seems to act scared of the Tea Parties, rightly or not.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUbFrAyZyoA
It is this type of reasoning that frustrates Americans. Clyburn is calling protests against liberal policies, “terrorism,” and then says that these protesters are getting their marching orders from Republicans in office, there fore they are terrorists.
FYI, the Obama pic as Hitler is from the LaRouche group, NOT the Tea Party.
@cargosquid
Article 1 Section 8
Not to mention social security. Best of luck repealing that one.
@cargosquid
And one more thing – I’m afraid the impetus is on you, the plaintiff, to demonstrate that this health care law (or, for that matter, ANY law) is unconstitutional. Your side has the responsibility to file suit and prove your case to the Supremes. That’s how it works in this country.
The gray panthers will get anyone who even thinks about social security. I wasn’t going to bring that one up.
Medicare is the baby of all of them.
I rarely claim constitution on anything. I am not a lawyer. I figure a first year student could eat me up and spit the bones out.
I am sitting here listening to Glenn Beck call FDR a dictator and Woodrow Wilson is a racist. (the Nazis learned propoganda from him) I forget what Teddy is. Obama is a socialist.
Its right there on Fox News.
This is inflammatory language.
It is unconscionable that a news station would have this kind of rhetoric going on.
———————————————————————————————————————
I can’t stand this middle school mentality of ‘well he did it’ or ‘so and so did it first’ or did it also. Someone else’s bad behavior is not justification for anything.
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;
To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;
To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;
To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;
To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
To provide and maintain a Navy;
To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
Nothing in there authorizing Congress to force me to buy anything at all.
Moon,
FDR is a dictator is hyperbole, but, even my mom, who was in her 20’s at the time, thought he came close. He learned many of his political ideas while serving in the Wilson administration.
Wilson was a racist. He also imprisoned thousands that dissented either about the War or his policies. His policies in the “teens” were used as the basis for many ideas in the totalitarian regimes forming in the 30’s. His progressive ideas were very totalitarian.
Beck considers Ted Roosevelt to be one of the original progressives. I think that he is a little overboard on this, but, I don’t know enough of his history or the context.
This is not rhetoric. It is not inflammatory. It is history. Wilson is the father of modern progressivism and the idea that the Constitution is no longer a valid restriction; the idea that the progressives have better ideas.
Starry,
we won’t have to repeal Social Security. It just started paying more than it is receiving. It will be gone within my life time. Not that I expect to see any of my money again.
If we must have a government run pension, put our tax money into treasury bills. Each of us has our own account. Statistics show that the return would have been 3-4 times Soc. Sec.
But, hope springs eternal. Just because people like the idea of government payouts does not make it constitutional.