Rep. Perriello from the Charlottesville area voted for the Health Care Reform bill. Today officials and the FBI are looking in to how the propane gas line at his brother’s house got cut. Political opponents had posted his brother’s address on a website, thinking the address was the congressman’s. According to msnbc.com:
From NBC’s Pete Williams
Virginia officials, aided by the FBI, are looking into how a residential propane feeder line was cut at the home of the brother of a Virginia congressman.Investigators have reached no conclusions about how or why it happened. But the line was cut after the home’s address was posted on a blog and a Facebook page, both maintained by members of a local Tea Party group who thought it was the home of Rep. Tom Perriello, a Virginia Democrat who voted in favor of the health-care bill.
One said, “This is Rep. Thomas Stuart Price Perriello’s home address,” and added, “I ain’t holding back anymore!!” The other urged readers to “drop by” the home and “express their thanks” for the vote.
The cut in the gas line, which runs from a propane tank to a gas grill on a screened-in porch, was discovered Tuesday, the day after the address was posted. When they realized that it was incorrect, the operators of the blog and Faceboook page took the address off.
The chairman of the Lynchburg, VA, Tea Party, Mark Lloyd, told NBC News, “I learned what happened after the fact. We made an official statement on our Web site,” saying that that his group “did not request, sanction, or endorse” posting the address, which appeared on a different Web site.
Tea Party member Nigel Coleman, who wrote one of the Internet posts, told the Charlottesville Daily Progress that he was shocked when he heard about the incident.
Rep. Steny Hoyer reports that threats have been made to around ten Congressmen and women who voted yes to HCR legislation. Shepherd Smith reports that he is waiting for an update from Capitol Police.
Please note that the material for this post comes from both MSNBC and from Fox News. Unfortunately incendiary rhetoric meant to gather the troops sometimes sends some of them off the deep end. All of us, regardless of party affiliation or ideology must be mindful of our audience and what we say. Civil debate becomes increasingly more important. Shepherd Smith gave one of his fierce admonitions about settling political unhappiness and discontent at the ballot box. I feel certain there will be footage of his remarks. I will post them. One bad apple can give many black eyes.
It goes without saying that any remarks like that would be removed from this blog. However, no one here would post like that either. The blogosphere does have the responsibility to maintain civil discussion.
@Posting As Pinko
And I don’t care which political party they belong to or what kind of leaning they have. Dems can be just as bad. It’s not about party.
GR,
The people throwing bricks, cutting gaslines, sending threatening messages are NOT conservatives, they are thugs. Maybe if republicans could not be defensive about the fact that these events are happening, they could actually call those people out and say STOP, you are NOT a true republican or conservative. Having said that, the out of control hysteria that the republicans are spinning is what, I believe firmly, is causing this fear. When you, as an elected official compare health care reform to Armegeddon, you better OWN the subsequent results.
Yes, we were out of sync as it were. Glad we cleared that up. I reacted to your intial post by misinterpreting it, then saw your clarification you weren’t talking about people being happy about gas lines being cut but rather they were happy that the HCR being passed, then I retracted my post. Then, you saw my initial post, and didn’t at first see my retraction.
You are right – that’s how wars are started! Glad we avoided a war in this case!
Silver Lake was proffered land. The Bull Run Mountain Conservancy offered to take it over as part of its stewardship and keep the lake open as a passive recreation area. The county voted against it.
I think the open space folks wanted it to go private for public use rather than have the Park Authority take it over. Elena is the expert here.
I guess we’ll have to disagree. And, I can just imagine what would happen here if someone who had conservative views on here said Democrats were like terrorists or KKK members…..
I meant to say, I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree.
I remember the whole history of Silver Lake and the Bull Run Mountain Conservancy’s offer. I know a lot of people think the county should have accepted it. I guess for one thing, people were more certain the Bull Run Mtn. Conservancy wouldn’t try to develop it and would keep it for passive recreation uses, compared to the PWC Park Authority. I also remember that more land was being offered if the Bull Run Mtn. Consevancy took it over.
Anyway, that discussion really belongs in the other thread.
Please do not talk about issues you clearly do not understand. Silver Lake was proffered as public land when Toll Brothers wanted develop more houses. Their initial plan was to build around silver lake, but Sean Connaughton negotiated to save the lake. Its interesting that you, a supposed conservative and fiscal hawk, knows very little about this saga. BRMC not only offered to take care of the land, but was willing to add an additional 270 acres to make the public park 500 acres. This partnership not only would have cost NOTHING to the PWC Taxpayers, but it would have SAVED us money because they were willing to invest the first 500 thousand dollars to make improvements and get it accessable to the public. If you really want to learn more, go to http://www.pwconserve.org and do some research. I have been very involved with Silver Lake and its fate for several years@PWC Taxpayer
@Gainesville Resident
GR, we can certainly agree to disagree. I don’t mind people disagreeing with me. I’m not running for office : )
I have no idea what would happen if people called Dems terrorists because my definition of a terrorist isn’t party-based. I am also not the moderator.
@Elena
Are you addressing that to me or someone else. Your comment is right below my post about Silver Lake.
Nevermind – I see at the bottom it wasn’t addressed to me.
I have a fair idea – just like what happened when Corey Stewart was labeled as disparaging vets, when he was saying disparaging things about the Coffee Party. It cuts both ways, and people kept saying “perception is reality”. It definitely was perceived by me you were comparing some conservatives (members of the tea party) to the KKK. Anyway, that’s the point I was trying to make, but at this point, it’s not worth arguing it anymore. Just that I see a double standard, and no one can convince me otherwise.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB20001424052748703312504575141642402986422.html
Yes, I am Nero playing my fiddle as Rome burns.. 🙂
The carnage and unemployment this thing will cause will be glorious.
And, someone made a comment the other day in another thread that said “The Tea Party members are terrorists” implying all Tea Party members were terrorists. No one but me complained about that comment. It was basically reiterated today, and at least I see some people besides me objected to it. Whenever I see a conservative make a comment others disagree with – it is noticed immediately.
However, the admins are allowed to run this blog as they see fit. But I see more and more conservative posters leaving it, and that’s because of a lot of things like what I describe above. Soon I think this blog will be made up of just moderates and liberals, and that’s too bad.
Marin, yet another opinion piece.
Opinions are neither right or wrong. They are opinions. Sometimes they come to pass, sometimes they don’t.
@Gainesville Resident
Oh I see what you mean.
The difference is, of course, that Corey is partisan and I am not. And I have friends and family who are conservatives. I am not sure Corey has friends (or family?) who are liberals. Still, I totally get what you are saying.
As to the KKK rounding up people, when I make the comparison between KKK members and these gas-line-cutting-thugs, I don’t mean they are rounding people up as the KKK did. I mean they are threatening and being violent and improperly acting in the name of a group and an ideology. Some of them are making horribly racist and other -ist comments. So that’s how I am making the comparison.
Anyway, just like Corey, I am explaining what I meant. But you can believe me more because I’m not a politician heh heh.
Gainesville, what is it that you would like for me to do? Do you want me to just let the conservatives speak here? That isn’t going to happen. Do you want me to take the liberals out and shoot them? Collect all their keyboards? Not going to happen.
If someone says something you don’t like, politely disagree with them. That is what blogging is about. If something was made on another thread…tell them.
This is a good sign:
“She [Pelosi] said the response has “no place in a civil debate in our country.” Republicans, too, went to the House floor to plead with opponents of the health care law to refrain from violence and threats”
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100325/ap_on_bi_ge/us_health_care_overhaul
Also, there appears to be a snag in the process of getting this bill completed. I wonder if the snag will become a rats’ nest.
Yes, it is. But, Verizon telling it’s employees to watch out for the 40% excise tax or Catepillar filing required documentation showing a $100 million charge for healthcare costs are not opinions.
That Rome may burn because of it is an opinion – I agree. But, can’t wait for people to get burned by this. It’ll be fantastic!
@marinm
“But, can’t wait for people to get burned by this. It’ll be fantastic!”
Marinm! That’s terrible. The people who get burnt aren’t the ones who are in charge. They are people like…well my brother, for example. Sheesh.
@Posting As Pinko
Pinko, we’re all simply getting what we voted in. Glad the promise of no new taxes for anyone under 250K got tossed – we all knew it would happen just needed to see the when for it. 🙂
You are free to run the blog however you want. But liberals are being allowed to speak much more freely here than conservatives. I know I’m not alone among conservatives who believe that, and I’ve seen a disturbing trend of conservatives leaving this blog who feel that very way.
Anyway, I think I’ve commented enough on this. Again, it is your blog and you can run it any way you see fit.
That’s what they get for rushing the thing through. It appears to be on some things not even related to HCR that were tacked onto the bill. Can’t say as I’m not surprised they are some “minor defects” as they are calling them in the bill. If they had taken a more measured approach, they (the Senators who would have had enough time to read and understand what it was they were voting for) – would most certainly have caught those defects.
And as I understand it, because of this, and because the bill has changed, the House will then have to vote on it again, and Obama will then have to sign it into law again.
So, that whole signing exercse the other day was meaningless! Well, I’m sure not meaningless to the Democrats – they got to claim a meaningless victory and got a lot of PR for it. Whoever heard of signing a bill into law that hasn’t been officially passed by the Senate? They should have waited until the Senate passed it. Unless the reconciliation process depended on it first being signed into law, but Im not sure about it – and will freely admit to not really knowing how “budget reconciliation” really works.
I don’t think that is a fair assessment, GR. I only think we have 2 liberals on here for starters. People get to define themselves. I have spoken to one. That person has agreed to turn it down a bit. The other person I will not speak to. I have said why.
I have not curtailed what anyone has said unless they were rude. I seriously doubt Cargo and Wolverine feel I have taken away their free speech. Making a suggestion is not the same as issuing a warning.
Some conservatives have left the blog. One was asked to leave, 2 have done so of their own chosing. The one who was asked to leave and actually left makes me sad. I was very fond of him. He added humor to the blog. He was too angry and it was spilling over into rudeness. I don’t think he bears a grudge and he probably knows it hurt me to suggest a new location.
Some people are more comfortable with those who share their political beliefs. This is a particular rancorous time in politics. People are angry. The anger isn’t just between conservatives and liberals. The moderates are being drawn in to the fray also. Some people have resorted to violence. We do well here to keep things as low key as they are.
Most people get what they give.
The fact that all 3 have left for whatever reason makes me sorry to see that. And that I feel should be my final comment on this whole sordid topic.
The snag was something about kids being left out until 2014. I understand it is being corrected.
[make that SNAG]
So who do we all think cut the gas line and broke out windows?
Does anyone remember when the thug vandalized the houses in Gainesville? Another blog speculated, without evidence, that it was Obama supporters/Democrats/Liberals who did it. Turns out it was some delinquent who was just out on a mission. He probably couldnt have told us who was even running for office. Something similar happened in the city. That kind of stuff is silliness.
Or perhaps I could tell the story of my friend Tom who had set out a whole bunch of signs for his candidate, all over his mid-county neighborhood. He got up one morning and all the signs were gone. Every last one of them. He looked up the street and into the yard of one of his neighbors who now works for a supervisor. There were all the signs in the back of either a truck or van, I can’t remember. One of the people who had them now is fairly politically influential [big mouth and hateful]. Not sure the adults in the house knew what all was in their front yard. The perps were 20 somethings. This was about 15 years ago. Stuff like that happens with people who are overly zealous.
And to be fair, local newspapers and others speculated it most likely was the work of conservatives to make liberals look bad. As far as I can tell in my memories of that – it was a draw between people blaming the conservatives for that incident and for people blaming the liberals. It turns out it was neither – just some crazy stupid kid.
I just remember it being far far more than “another blog blaming Obama supporters/Democrats/Liberals” for that that – so I don’t think it’s fair to just point that out without pointing out the other half of the story. There was plenty of speculation conservatives did that to set up liberals/Democrats/Obama supporters as bad guys. The speculation went that it happened in very conservative Gainesville neighborhoods, and the people who made that speculation said things like “the Republicans are so dirty and underhanded it had to be them – no Democrat would have done such a thing – and they are just doing it to make Dems look bad”. I may be paraphrasing slightly, but that is definitely what was said. I know, it happened right after I moved to Gainesville, and some of it happened close to my house (over by the VA Gateway shopping center).
So my point is, let’s not try to make it look like conservatives were the only ones who said bad things regarding the incident in Gainesville. Liberals and Democrats said just as many nasty things and made just as nasty unfounded allegations toward conservatives in that incident. Both in the press and on other local blogs other than the one cited above (that made allegations against Dems).
That is their choice to leave. And frankly, 2 of them needed to have better manners.
And here’s some quotes from another local blog about that Gainesville incident, that will prove my point – I’m leaving out the names of the posters or the blog in questions – but I just find it all highly amusing to take a trip down memory lane here (and it would really be enlightening if I lined up the userid’s of those people who wrote the following remarks):
1. “Corey Stewart apparently called the vandalism a hate crime and is doing all in his power to get a lot of attention and use the incident to help McCain. If it was done against Obama, I’m sure he would have ignored it and he would not have called it a hate crime. He would have nominated the people behind it for an award of heroism. Now isn’t that special?”
2. “Why doesn’t Corey Stewart leave the investigation of the crime to the police? It is they who know the laws and have been hired to do this kind of work. I am not sure this constitutes a hate crime. Yes, XXXXXX (GR edit note: this is a direct reply to the person above by one of the administrators to that blog), isn’t that special? [best Church Lady voice]”
3. “If Corey Stewart is so concerned about “hate crimes,” why didn’t he do or say anything when his anti-immigrant grandstanding lured the KKK to Manassas to do lit drops a year ago? The man has a funny definition of hate crime. This was a scam. Wait and see. The vandals will be McCain sour grapes-ers who are on a kick to make Obama look bad because he won the election fair and square.”
4. “I think Corey should be careful of what he says since I’m sure that the vandalism could have been done by nutball McCain supporters.”
5. “McCain/Palin signs are the new lamb’s blood markings of the Passover.” (I had to include that one – it was in this same thread!!)
6. “I can’t wait until they catch the guys and find out they thought it would somehow help McCain’s chances if they offered one more reason to hate all things Obama. Problem is, the only people who read XXXX blog either already hate Obama, or already hate everything in the world, or just drop in from time to time to gawk at people like that.”
7. “Corey Stewart apparently called the vandalism a hate crime and is doing all in his power to get a lot of attention and use the incident to help McCain. He has more balls than a well-hung bull. But fewer brains. And he doesn’t represent me at all when he says that is a hate crime. He wouldn’t call it a hate crime if it was done to a Democrat’s house.”
8. “Nah….XXXX blog and XX et al aren’t a hate group. Corey must be RIGHT. Corey is forming his own hate group and should be prosecuted. He has a lot of nerve – he should look at himself in the mirror”.
I’ll include the lone voice of reason here in the following post:
9. “I don’t see where anyone has suggested that people have done this to themselves. After all, since everyone here supposedly lives in a gated community in Haymarket or Gainesville, wouldn’t that be considered a self-inflicted wound?”
But then a reply:
10. “You don’t understand – they didn’t do it to themselves. Other Republicans who hate Obama did it. Just wait and see. And then Corey Stewart calls it a hate crime. I can’t wait to see him wipe that racist smirk off his face when the truth comes out that angry Republicans ran around and marked up other Republicans houses, just to make Democrats and Obama look bad. Wait and see. Mark my words, you will see I’m right”.
I only got just maybe 50% of the way through one thread (that thread had 145 post in it) and this is scratching the surface.
To point out this “other blog” tried to blame Democrats for the Gainesville incident, without pointing out that others on another local blog said the same thing about Republicans.
Maybe what I’m really saying is this: There’s two sides to every story, and it all depends on what point of view you are looking at the story from.
Anyway, I probably shouldn’t have bothered to rehash all those old posts from another blog. So the above paragraph is my way of explaining why I did that, to show the “other side of the story” as it were.
Fair enough. I’m sad to have seen all 3 of them leave, but that’s the way it goes.
It looks like one major haul got left out of the discussion:
Good haul, DG.
DiversityGal
October 26th, 2008 at 08:10 | #29
Reply | Quote
I looked over at the other site, and I have to say that I was really disturbed. The thread started with quotes from Corey calling these events terrible acts. In the last paragraph, however, he linked ACORN and “other nuts” to these crimes. Here is what I would have said, if I could still post, that is…
“I think it is horrible that people defaced property in such a way. I was in agreement with Mr. Stewart…until he made his last addition. ACORN has definitely committed fraudulent acts, but I don’t think it was right for Corey to tie them to these crimes in the press without evidence. He should think before he speaks. Also, I’d love to know what ‘other nuts’ he is talking about, and seems to be tying to these crimes.”
As I read the posts that followed in the thread, I became increasingly concerned. Many posters were saying that this was typical behavior of Obama voters, that they have no honor, that McCain voters have more manners in general. Do these posters really believe that, in general, Obama supporters are beneath them?
One poster tried to suggest that this may have been done by McCain supporters to generate sympathy and outrage. I don’t think I really believe that, but it irks me that this poster was attacked for the suggestion. Haven’t some of the same people on the other site suggested that the owner of the Liberty sign vandalized his own property?
Get a load of these gems:
“They invented guns to counter this kind of crap from the socialists. It will only take a few being sent home in a box to get the messge out.” – CONVA
“Welcome to a little glimpse of what it will be like to live in the Marxist/Socialist Thugocracy that we will find ourselves in if Va and NC go blue and don’t stay red.” – Gnarly
“IT AMAZES ME THAT LIBERALS WANT TO SAY ANYTHING THEY CARE TO BUT STICK A LITTLE MCCAIN SIGN OUT IN YOUR YARD AND IT’S GROUNDS TO PUMMEL SOMEONE OR DESTROY PROPERTY. THIS IS JUST A SMALL SAMPLE OF WHAT WILL COME WHEN WE ARE A SOCIALIST COUNTRY! REMEMBER, PEOPLE HAD THIS KIND OF MENTALITY BACK BEFORE CIVIL RIGHTS…KILL SOMEONE BECAUSE THEY AREN’T LIKE US” – Elliott
“because alot of people have told me they will have your phone number and your address and if you tell them your voting for McCain something might happen to you or your family” – gazzed
“McCain/Palin signs are the new lamb’s blood markings of the Passover.” – Chester
OMG…People really think this way, and are this scared of Barack Obama? I knew there was a lot of fear politics at work, but we’ve gone way beyond being slightly irrational now. These kinds of thoughts from the general public make me sad for my country.
It is really awful that these crimes happened to McCain supporters…just as it is awful that crimes are happening to Obama supporters. We should be concerned by the behavior in general. I think it is ridiculous to try and officially tie it to either campaign.
Anti-bvbl is where that came from. I stand by what I said.
The Chairman of the BOCS once again stepped in it. I had forgotten all about that.
Once again, he should have kept his mouth shut and left the investigation to the PWC police who found the culprit and who had nothing to do with any political party.
Here is the link.
http://www.antibvbl.net/index.php/2008/10/25/folks-just-need-to-behave/#comments
Any attempts to embarrass moonhowlings.net by displaying the thread have failed to accomplish their mission.
Actually, it appears that the scenery never changes. I am calling on citizens to behave, the Chairman of the BOCS is sticking his foot in his mouth, an opposing blog is making accusations…… Life is good.
Those who left the blog did so of their own free will. They may come back at any time.
I expect they felt there was a need for them to go where their point of view was more appreciated and the rules of decorum were different.
I must have missed that cataloging of comments from Diversity Girl. That is truly frightening, especially the call to send people “home in boxes.” The stuff about Marxists and Socialists, well…even if I think it’s ridiculous, most of it is harmless ranting. (Recall I’m an alleged Socialist.)
MH is right about the scenery never changing. We see the same patterns–destruction of property with politics being used as an excuse to justify that destruction, partisan blaming, and threats. Whether the actions come from a hate group, a political group, an activist group or a church makes no difference. Violence is violence and we should not tolerate it.
I think there is a general opinion among most folks anywhere on our political spectrum that political violence is not acceptable in the American context. We are clearly in a politically contentious time; but we Americans have managed to keep a cap on the tempers most of the time throughout our history with a few exceptions, the largest being the Civil War. We paid for that one with some very serious blood. Although that war was a bitter one and it took a very long time to overcome the effects of it, we did rebuild a national comity which allowed this country to unite to create an unprecedented economic engine within the context of unprecedented personal freedom, a system so strong in spirit that we were able to defeat two different imperial/totalitarian systems simultaneously and later to face down a superpower called the USSR without even firing a shot against them. When I served in uniform I served under the same flag with Northern men and Southern men, with men from the East and with men from the West, with White men, with Black men, with Hispanic men, with Asian men, with Native American men. They were all in my own personal experience good men, united by a strong bond of a single yet diverse nation, a nation still with many flaws but better than anything else I have seen in my lifetime of travel.
Yes, we have had times when the people of various political beliefs and convictions were in the streets and we have had some very untoward and even violent incidents in those contexts. But the important thing is that we did not let that become a habit. We eventually got past it. We, in effect, agreed to disagree without trying to destroy each other. We wound up fighting our internal battles at the polling place as the Founding Fathers intended. And, unlike many another country, we did not wind up with divisions so deep that we had to contend with real domestic terrorist groups such as the Red Brigades in Germany or 17 November in Greece, just to mention a couple.
All in all, we are, in my humble opinion, a damned lucky people. I know — because my profession was terrorist tracker. I had to contend with the blood shed by the real and insatiable hate of domestic, as well as international, terrorism; and I thank God every day that domestic terrorism as I have seen it is not part of my own country’s fabric. So, perhaps you will understand that, whether you are of the Left, the Right, or anywhere in between, when I am within the sound of your voice or the words on your computer and you start using the words of violence and hatred, my reaction will be to look at you like I looked at certain other people throughout my career. I will give you only one word of advice: “Don’t!”
Sadly, what I see now around me is another round of internal hatred. We have some very serious differences of opinion on some very serious subjects. Unfortunately, we seem once again to be allowing ourselves to slip into a posture of making the differences personal and exceedingly mean. Not too long ago, an important conservative leader from the religious arena died. The press accounts of his life and death were rather straightforward. But, when I looked at the posted comments following some of the articles, I could not believe what I was reading. Everywhere there were hopes that the man had died in absolute and utter agony and that he was even then roasting in Hell — if he had been right all along that there was a Hell. Moreover, the same sort of wishes were visited upon the man’s grieving family. Sorry, folks, but these were comments clearly from the left side of the spectrum.
Since 20 January 2009, I have seen a similar rise in vituperativeness from the other side of the spectrum. I find nothing wrong with a strong opposition to the views and actions of our politicians, but I will not participate in the name-calling and the nasty insinuations. It is not necessarily that I have a learned respect for those in high political office but more that I have seen in my lifetime the most terrible and extreme consequences of unbridled hatred. Believe me, if any of you saw what the people in my former profession have seen, you would stop the use of hurtful invectives immediately. Angry, hurtful words can become the seed of dire consequences no matter the direction from which they come.
Now, in all the current clashes, I am going to nominate some villains to my personal hall of infamy. I will start with our current crop of politicians who too often operate in such a high degree of partisanship that they shut out anyone who does not agree with them. I am not going to parse this beyond saying that I was astounded at what took place during the debate and passage of the health care reform bill. I personally felt shut out of the process completely. I saw that much touted bipartisan congressional summit on health care as a sham because it showed me absolutely no real intention to craft a bill of compromise which would be buyable to some extent for all sides. In my opinion, the way in which many of the politicians malpracticed their craft is the true birth mother of the subsequent anger we are seeing. When you slam the door in the face of an American and lock him out, he becomes an unhappy camper. That is the nature of us, no matter our political beliefs.
My second villain category can be found in the media and the blogs. Now, I am not coming down here on those who argue strongly for their cause on either side of an issue. I am a fighter. I llike a good, fair fight. In fact, if I was still in a position to hire fighters, I would probably hire a couple of ladies I have found on this blog even though we often disagree on the issues. Tough and feisty is what I looked for, so long as discipline went along with it. What I did not look for was unbridled and out-of-control hatred because that attitude wasted my time, distracted from a mission, and ultimately could lose battles. What I see, unfortunately, in many media personalities and on many blogs is that which would cause me not to hire. The strong arguments they may make are harmed by the uncontrolled anger and directed hatred which goes along with them. I am not going to name names here but this covers people in all political directions. Some do not understand that they shoot themselves in the foot by lashing out. They turn off that part of the audience which they should be trying to convert. If you believe I am thinking in the wrong direction on an issue and then you call me a “”Neanderthal”, you had better understand that the word “Neanderthal” is what I will remember about you. Any valid opinions you may have are gone in a puff of angry smoke. If you start off by calling Obama a Marxist a*hole, I tend to fade away from your argument, even though I may agree with the crux of your dissent. And, if you keep referring to Rush Limbaugh, for instance, as a fat, drug addict, as many do, I will look at you as well as someone not worthy of discourse. I am looking for intelligent dialogue and possible compromise, not time-wasting anger and hatred.
Let me touch just briefly on the current wave of alleged violence against congresspersons. Up until now, the targets had been Democrats. Now, I have just learned on ABC radio that someone put a bullet through the window of Eric Cantor’s campaign office in Richmond. None of this is acceptable. And please note that the Republican leadership in Congress has said that. My problem is that certain elements in the media and the web have not limited themselves to condemning this violence per se but are trying constantly to lay it at the feet of their political opponents who do not support it and would never support it. That does not stop their accusations. Now, I, a former counterterrorist officer, find myself blamed for violence because I happen to support the Tea Party. Well, in the experienced opinion of this old warrior, if you keep pushing your anger at people who are not responsible for the actions you decry, you are going to send their anger on a political issue up to the level of intensified anger aimed at you and others in your political entourage. You are going to be responsible for the upping of the ante.
I will finish by saying that I support Moon-howler’s intentions for this blog to the absolute max. She is trying to avoid the vituperative excesses of a large number of other blogs and yet to maintain the qualities of sharp debate over issues. If I believed she was not, I would not be here hammering at this keyboard. I ask all of you on all sides to tone down some of this. Please do not use the word “terrorist” so often. I will be quite frank here. Most of you do not know what terrorism is really like because you have only seen it on your television sets. It is not a word to be tossed out there lightly. The incidents you see out there now should be labeled correctly for what they are: stupid political vandalism which gains nothing for anyone. The Weathermen of old could be called terrorists because they set off bombs which killed. Throwing a brick through a campaign office window is not terrorism. It is just plain stupidity. So is shooting a bullet through Eric Cantor’s window. Condemn it all in precise terms but avoid any wider slander. And I will close with one last warning; Be aware of something called covert action. I faced some very clever enemies. There was a tactic which was very troublesome. Somebody would make a phone call or place an article which was highly inflammatory to the recipient or reader. Because of what was said, the recipient or reader would think it was me (generically) and come out hard against me. Only it wasn’t me. It was the other guy playing the role of that squirrel running up and down the ash tree stirring up trouble. That could happen here in some instances — or it could just be a stupid, smartass kid looking for a lark in the midst of conflict.
Now that I’ve exhausted you with my venting, I am going to have to depart for awhile. I am a genealogist and family historian working on eleven different and huge families all at the same time. Some people are starting to call me and ask if they are going to see their family’s genealogy before they actually become a part of it. That and those damned taxes. See you all in a bit. Keep up the fight, Moon. You are doing well here.
I have no dog in the the fight about the lake. One of the few things that I don’t have an opinion on……(grin)
Gaineville,
I appreciate where you are coming from. Here is what I do when I see liberal attacks. One, I don’t worry about the moderator. Two, its all ammo. One can always use words against people that accuse, insult, or otherwise act like a squirrel. (Thanks Wolverine. That is a great term.)
Use their attitude and words against them. Logic and politeness always ticks them off.
Moon,
I think you do a decent job of running this blog. Especially since the comment count has gone up. I visited back in the anti-bvbl days a few times. I have to say that it seemed much more…..strident… back then. Better now.
Well said, Wolverine. See my comment #2 above where I relayed the same in less eloqent prose.
As an aside to my watching Rome burn comment above – friend just got an email from his company (large financial company) saying that his HC will go up and the email hinted at layoffs for cost containment. Wow. I’m just eating popcorn (to get my lapband) and watching the fireworks. 🙂
On blogs people come and go. Some return. Some don’t . Some leave quietly. Some have to manifesto and tell everyone that they won’t have the poor victim to kick around any longer. The more things change….
Actually, I think this blog has seen more Conservatives participate lately. Most present rational arguments. There are a couple perennial whiners and snarky susans but most are more adult about presenting their arguments. One of the whiners I have in mind is stuck in 1950s/60s America. He’ll never be happy because society has changed. The other should start his own blog.
Wolverine, my comment wasn’t aimed at you. You’re a fast typist that sneaked your comment in while I was eating a sandwich. Yours are the rational arguments that I want to hear.
To go back to the original topic at hand (I won’t address attempts to say that bvbl’s comments regarding the Gainesville incident’s were worse than antibvbl’s comments – by that I mean the posters on each of those websites comments):
On the radio on the way home on WTOP I heard two things:
1. The FBI says there’s been just as many nasty letters and voicemails left for Republicans as for Democrats in the past several days – regarding HCR. Both sides have received threatening letters. One correspondent said the press is only focusing on the Democrats getting those nasty letters/voicemails including death threats. There’s an equal number of investigations going on by the FBI on Republicans who got nasty letters/voicemails contanining death threats and other forms of violence.
2. One Republican Congressman just had a bullet come through his window today.
All of these things are conveniently not mentioned by the liberal press. Instead, only the Republicans are made to look like the bad guys, the terrorists, the angry mob, etc.
Apparently, there’s an equal number of Democrats that are that way too.
While this is no shock at all to me, reading the press, and even reading what many posters have said on here – one would believe the Republicans are the bad guys, and the Democrats are far above this kind of behavior. Of course, I know everyone will say – that hasn’t been said. But it has, on here, over and over and over again – how there’s a bunch of angry Republicans out there, doing terrible things, making terroristic threats, etc. et .
I contend, there’s just as many Democrats out there doing the same thing. Neither group can claim the moral high ground on their behavior the past few days with all these threats of violence, and actual acts of violence.
Reading this blog, one sure doesn’t get that feeling that anyone believes what I just said in the above paragraph.
It might be nice then if you were clear about who you were aiming the comments made in the previous post that Wolverine referred to – so we are clear about it and those who you made those comments to can defend themselves. Instead, we are left to just guess.
And I’m an alleged racist and an alleged Nazi, as I was called both of those things.
This is the what I’m referring to, involving the bullet passing through Rep. Cantor’s campaign office:
http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/03/25/congress.threats/index.html?hpt=T2
You know, I”m not the source of the violence or the target really matters… it’s the culture of violence. Personally, I think there are folks out there just looking for a reason to “explode” and lately our politicians (perhaps on all sides) have been throwing lit matches into the crowd. The high unemployment rate, economic problems, etc. certainly are tinder.
STOP IT!
I can’t take any more of this crap.
GR, no one is calling you anything. Please. Stop.
Pinko is not talking to you.
Pinko, those comments are from October 2008 over the vandalism in Gainesville. It is old history from Anti and not worth repeating.