It appears that the least open thread has scrolled off the front page. It’s easy to make a new one. The movie idea didn’t go over so well. We can try it again sometime. Meanwhile, Doubt is an excellent film if you haven’t seen it. Apparently some viewers got the wrong idea about its intent. The film was very much about gossip and its consequences. Maybe Rick will have more time this week to lead a discussion. He is our resident movie critic.
97 Thoughts to “Open Thread for March 28”
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- Bacons' Rebellion Blogspot
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- Blue Virginia
- Citizen Tom
- Counts of Monte Cristo. The
- Derecho, The
- Dixie Pig, The
- My Side of the Fence
- My Star Journey
- NARAL Pro-Choice VA Blog
- New Dominion Project
- Nova Common Sense
- NovaTownHall Blog
- One Libertarians's Point of View by Al Alborn
- Pete Candland's Blog
- Potomac Local
- Prince William Muckraker
- PW Conservation Alliance
- PWC Moms
- PWCPolitics.com
- PWCPolitics.com
- Red NoVA
- Shad Plank, The
- She the People
- State of NoVA, the
- The Jeffersoniad
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- VEA Daily Reports
- VivianPaige
- WDGolden.com
- You, Me and the Lamp Post
I am very glad that the health care bill has passed. It will provide health insurance to millions of Americans who currently do hot have it. I would have preferred to see a public option as part of the legislation, but perhaps that can be added at some future data.
The President also scored a big win last week in coming to an arms control agreement with Russia.
Last week was a good one for our nation and its people.
“The bullying, threats, and acts of violence following the passage of health care reform have been shocking, but they’re only the most recent manifestations of an increasing sense of desperation.
It’s an extension of a now-familiar theme: some version of “take our country back.” The problem is that the country romanticized by the far right hasn’t existed for some time, and its ability to deny that fact grows more dim every day. President Obama and what he represents has jolted extremists into the present and forced them to confront the future. And it scares them.
Even the optics must be irritating. A woman (Nancy Pelosi) pushed the health care bill through the House. The bill’s most visible and vocal proponents included a gay man (Barney Frank) and a Jew (Anthony Weiner). And the black man in the White House signed the bill into law. It’s enough to make a good old boy go crazy.
Hence their anger and frustration, which is playing out in ways large and small. There is the current spattering of threats and violence, but there also is the run on guns and the explosive growth of nefarious anti-government and anti-immigrant groups. In fact, according to a report entitled “Rage on the Right: The Year in Hate and Extremism” recently released by the Southern Poverty Law Center, “nativist extremist” groups that confront and harass suspected immigrants have increased nearly 80 percent since President Obama took office, and anti-government “patriot” groups more than tripled over that period.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/27/opinion/27blow.html
March 24, 2010 – Tea Party Could Hurt GOP In Congressional Races, Quinnipiac University National Poll Finds; Dems Trail 2-Way Races, But Win If Tea Party Runs
“The Tea Party movement is mostly made up of people who consider themselves Republicans,” said Peter A. Brown, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Polling Institute. “They are less educated but more interested in politics than the average Joe and Jane Six-Pack and are not in a traditional sense swing voters.”
“The Tea Party could be a Republican dream – or a GOP nightmare. Members could be a boon to the GOP if they are energized to support Republican candidates. But if the Tea Party were to run its own candidates for office, any votes its candidate received would to a very great extent be coming from the GOP column,” Brown added.
http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x1295.xml?ReleaseID=1436
Interesting
Starry, you have brought some real serious stuff for us to think about. Thanks. I think these kinds of facts and opinions are very productive to discussion here.
Last night the 3rd installment of Pacific was on. One of the marines met a girl when the battle worn troops arrived in Australia. They were coming in off of the Guadalcanal campaign. It showed the Australians all out waving flags and treating our guys like the heroes that they were. The Aussies felt like our troops had saved their homeland.
The marine was invited over for dinner, invited to stay there instead of on the carrier, and was treated like a son. The minute the daugher told her parents she had met an American her parents were delighted and brought out their best despite the fact they were at war.
Would Americans be treated like that today? No one feels that way about Americans any more. What ended that feeling? I don’t know. Why aren’t we seen as the good guys?
Shame on me. It never hit me that some of this back lash could not just be about a black president but also because Pelosi is a female. An article in the Post hit me squarely up side the head on this one. Good for Starry for pointing this out. I do think some folks are having a hard time handing leadership that looks a little different than it used to.
People can deny it all they want. Doesn’t make it so. It is something to think about. The immigration resolution had absolutely nothing to do with being hispanic either, did it? And, to give the devil his due, I am sure it didn’t with some folks. Other folks….yea right.
does anyone know where the “Tort Reform” proposal is actually posted? Many of the Anti-Health Reform people just shout out – Tort Reform – but I cannot actually find the details on what Tort Reform means.
I don’t think it exists. I think it is just part of a battle cry. I could be wrong.
Beyond politics and public opinion, let’s try to look objectively at Obama’s “leadership” here.
The Health Care bill accomplished one thing – it expanded coverage. It did nothing to address cost. In fact, Obama and his supporters deliberately tried to obfuscate this by pretending that insurance companies are somehow responsible for cost issues, when rather clearly they and their 6.2% profit margin aren’t the reason that our health care costs so much more than anyone else’s.
The reasons that we pay so much more are because we spend so much during the end of our life – untargeted care that insurance companies have to pay or are expected pay. And the fact that we pay 2-3 times more for drugs than other companies. Both of these things become more entrenched with the new bill.
Improve it from here? If you accept the whole premise the Democrats promulgated of “This stuff is so interlocked and complex and politically difficult that if we don’t do this now, we can’t do it for another generation” then it seems that we cannot possibly accomplish those things for a long time.
So, at least this “historic accomplishment” will change things in terms of expanding coverage? Not really. the way this was done, by fiat rather than by convincing people that it was good, ensures that for the next 20-30 years we will be going back and forth of the degree to which the government should subsidize health care – while the real issues of cost are swept under the rug. neither party has the stomach to engage in real “Health care reform”, and now neither has to. That have people fighting on the fake battleground that they’ve set up to distract us from our more substantial issues.
It’s not “Health Care Reform”. It’s “Health Care Coverage Expansion”. “reform” might imply that we address cost inequities and stop taking more out of Americans’ pocketbooks than what citizens of other nations pay.
It’s the opposite of leadership. I have complete contempt for the way Obama, Pelosi, Reid handled this. And it’s not because of ethnicity or sex. They took something they wanted to sell, and successfully labeled it as something else, with completely phony arguements about cost savings, and the demon insurance companies. They have led us further down the primrose path of entitlements at the expense of our nation’s future, robbing future generations, dimninishing America.
Just because you never bothered to look it up doesn’t mean that the GOP didn’t have it’s health care proposals available. I googled “Republican tort reform” and found:
http://www.gop.gov/solutions/healthcare
A summary of the plan is here (with a link to a PDF of the full bill text. Warning: the bill isn’t a 2000 pager like Obamacare, but it’s still over 250 pages long.)
http://rsc.tomprice.house.gov/Solutions/EmpoweringPatientsFirstAct.htm
The bill never got a voted on. I guess that would have been too bipartisan to let people know what Republicans want to do to reform health care.
On the subject of “Doubt”, note the Pope is in the news these days – helped to facilitate the molestation of hundreds of deaf children, befoire he was Pope.
The Republicans pretending (as they have been for decades) that “tort reform” is a solution is also pretense. Both parties fail us, again and again, and gravitate towards phony issues that they market their campaigns on, to convince Americans that they have a real choice to make at the polls.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703312504575142630094747908.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEFTSecond
http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/2010/03/dems-threaten-congressional-show-trials-after-us-companies-leak-real-economic-damage-of-obamacare/
Taxman, will you give us a lead in to the links? I think more people would be inclined to read them if we knew what they were about. Thanks.
I am also very concerned about the funding. I think we need show trials to bring things into the light of day. These are also companies that gave heavily to Republican campaign funds. is there a link there?
I am also concerned about Bush tax cuts running out. Much of this will fall on the middle class because as we know, the wealthier class always knows how to protect money…and they have enough to do it.
I also know how big of a bite that health care takes out of personal income and out of the economy. I don’t claim to know the answers and how we find balance. I just know that sound bites aren’t going to solve anything.
Visitor, I believe Pat asked where to find it.
And you are right, I didn’t give enough of a crap to look it up. I figured when it became an important piece of legislation, I would hear about it.
Its some of that legislation I put in the category of being fine, unless it is your ox being gored.
Great county neighborhood conference last Saturday at the McCoart Center. Plenty of City of Manassas and Manassas Park police there, too — a focal point was inoperable cars. Supervisor Jenkins sat in on one of the seminars. It was very informative.
Congressional Budget Office estimates that the recent health care bill would reduce federal deficits:
The reconciliation proposal includes provisions related to health care and revenues, many
of which would amend H.R. 3590. It also includes amendments to the Higher Education
Act of 1965, which authorizes most federal programs involving postsecondary education.
CBO and JCT estimate that enacting both pieces of legislation—H.R. 3590 and the
reconciliation proposal— would produce a net reduction in federal deficits of $138
billion over the 2010–2019 period as result of changes in direct spending and revenue
(see the top panel of Table 1 and subtitle A of title II on Table 5).
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/113xx/doc11355/hr4872.pdf
No further questions, your honor.
A $138 billion deficit reduction as a result of health care legislation? I’ll take it.
Of course, the “fixes” they subsequently passed add money to that, buy CBO restimates, and the whole thing costs money, not saves it.
Does it make you angry that they are so disingenuous? It makes me angry.
Visitor – can you point me to the information – it could be me, but I can find no information (and I googled it) on the tort reform proposal (I cannot find the proposal).
What is actually being proposed by the GOP?
Rick – what is the cost of doing nothing, as we have been?
I agree, this is coverage expansion, now what our leaders need to do, is to change the method that the industry is reimbursed. Get the real emergencies into an emergency room, compensate the dr for his/her effectiveness, not the time spent with a patient. Change reimbursement schedules. Yes, many more things to this health reform is needed, but we needed to start somewhere.
What is the cost of doing nothing on cost containment? It’s massive.
I can’t figure out the feds. The state is doing enough damage. See all their lies and crap. Where is Cargo with that military dictionary? No, it hasn’t raised our taxes. It has just cut off $1.8 million more from Prince William.
The State is supposed to have a balanced budget, not all the funny money shinannigans. The state needs to just man up and raise taxes and quite pretending it isn’t. Borrowing from the Pension will cost about 45 million over 10 years.
Is that when the Pope was Cardinal Ratzinger? Part of the reason pedophelia has become systemic world wide is because no one wants to talk about it. It must be talked about, or it will continue to happen.
Actually the brushing under the rug is typical of how things this unpleasant, often with sexual overtones get handled universally. I have 2 friends who both had family relatives being overly familiar…yea, pedophilia. Friend A was afraid to ever tell her parents. She felt she would be blamed. Friend B told her mother.
Guess which situation went on for years and guess which one at least started to be solved? That is what pedophiles and other types of sex preditors count on: silence. They count on people not talking about it because it is so distasteful. Therefore the problem continues.
Indeed it was when he was a Cardinal. He was involved in transferring one priest who molested at least 150 deaf boys at night in Milwaukee. Horrific, large-scale abuse that went on every night with particularly vulnerable boys who were trembling under the covers in one bed while he was in another molesting someone. And there is another case that happened in Ratzinger’s own parish. Worse, as usual, the church has been covering up and obfuscating. Like the priest in “Doubt” …
“Yesterday, on Palm Sunday, the Pope was cryptic in his sermon. He spoke of Jesus Christ helping Christians “towards the courage of not allowing oneself to be intimidated by the petty gossip and dominant opinion”. ” – http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/03/the_storm_buffeting_gods_rottw.html
Um … I don’t think that these people really talk to God.
As Howard Stern said this morning, there should be a criminal investigation opened and the guilty (including Ratzinger) should be sentenced, it’s as simple as that. Only reason it doesn’t happen is those funny robes they wear and the pretense that they talk to God.
If you want details on the abuse – http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100325/ap_on_re_us/church_abuse_wisconsin
Rick, I believe it should be talked about openly, don’t get me wrong. I just want it done by someone other than Howard Stern. I am willing to take a stand on discussion but I don’t want people unnecessarily hurt. I believe we can attack the deeds of some without attacking a religion. There is no where in the Catholic faith that recommends or approves of molesting children.
We don’t know how many degrees of separation Cardinal Ratzinger was from the Milwaulkee situation. I always felt that Colonel Karpinksi got railroaded over Abu Ghraib. When there is a heirarchy like the church or the military, the person who gets hung often isn’t the bad guy.
Often the Ratzingers and the karpinskis of the world don’t know all the facts and those under them lie, deflect, defend, and perhaps, don’t want to face horrible facts. I am all for punishing those who do wrong. I don’t necessarily want The Pope or Karpinski punished.
But yes, the Church not only has to talk about it, but they have to look at how some of their own practices might prop up systemic problems that have become this wide-spread.
Rick, do you think the priest in Doubt was a molester?
But it seems to me that :
A. The root of the problem is the belief in false gods, and the belief that they speak to people who profiteer from it
B. Incidents like this indicate, by Catholic theology, that either God is a child molester (the Priests are his vessell, after all – he can hardly be ignoring this) or doesn’t exist.
On The Pope – he did the wrong thing, for the wrong reasons, and deserves to be called out on it. Belief in God is no excuse for facilitating child molestation.
On Karpinski – I strongly recommend the documentary film “Standard Operating Procedure”. She’s interviewed in it. Now, I’m not so sure she doesn’t deserve some blame or that she has many redeeming qualities. But she certainly was the fall guy, yes. The documentary is great. It shows exactly what happened there and why it happened. It’s an interesting story. Beyond any politics of it, it’s just very interesting what happened over there. The one woman, Sabrina Harman, was yukking it up even as she took the most damning pictures – part of her wanted to document what was going on.
And when I watch “Doubt” yes I’m sure he was a pedophile – his reaction to her trump card (her bluff) proves it to me.
I think people have the right to believe in any God they want to believe in without ridicule. However, I also have the right to be free from their (anyone’s) religion.
Other religions certainly have had their share of practices that somewhere in history have some real strikes against them. The Catholic Church is certainly not the only one. Because it is the universal Christian church and the larget ‘denomination’ (and I know that is not an accturate term applied to Catholicism) it perhaps stands out more than some of the less populated churches. Throw out a church, someone here can probably name something dastardly it has done.
I can’t throw rocks at Pope Benedict. He was in Rome, this event was in Milwaukee. Could he have done a better job of weeding out a bad priest? Probably. We are human beings and not perfect.
By the same token I respect the rights of those who are non-believers.
I didn’t want that priest in Doubt to be a pedophile. I think he might have been involved with a woman. Remember he asked if the person she talked to was a woman? We will never know. I certainly didn’t want nasty bitch Sister Aloysius to be right. She was evil in her own way. She didn’t care who she hurt while she was in the act of being righteous.
And once feathers are out of the pillow, there is no way to ever get them all back in.
Do we have a witch hunt to end all this? There are no easy answers.
@Moon-howler
Americans, especially military, are VERY popular in Australia. I was in Gladstone on the east coast for a week with the Reserves. Women came in from 200 miles away for the chance to meet some of our Marines. There are other stories about how welcoming Australian women are…..but just take my word for it.
I’ll be back to reply to some of the above statements. Too late now.
Republicans spent $1,946 at topless club
By CHARLES BABINGTON, Associated Press Writer Charles Babington, Associated Press Writer – Mon Mar 29, 6:36 pm ET
WASHINGTON – The Republican National Committee spent $1,946 last month at a sex-themed Hollywood club that features topless dancers and bondage outfits. Now the GOP wants its money back.
Listed in a monthly financial report, the amount is itemized as expenses for meals at Voyeur West Hollywood.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100329/ap_on_re_us/us_republicans_spending
Wow! That’s a lot of money just to look at boobies! Hope they got more than just a look-see for that kind of money!
Those concerned or curious about the status of the deficit and debt should be aware that Moody’s Investor Service, the bond rating agency, issued a warning on 15 March that the growing U.S. government debt could cause a downgrade of Treasury bonds. A similar warning came from the IMF last week.
How do the disputed figures on the recently passed health care bill affect this situation? Check out the article by Robert J. Samuelson in the 29 March 2010 issue of Newsweek (on the web). Big deficits and growing debt spook investors, leading to higher interest rates on loans. Higher interest rates expand the debt and scare investors even more. The only way government can reverse this vicious cycle is to either cut spending severely or raise taxes sharply. Lower government spending or higher taxes= depression of the economy and higher unemployment.
To paraphrase a television ad of long ago: “When Moody’s speaks, investors listen.” Let us hope that certain high-level officials in Washington are also listening. Some analysts are now saying that, as Greece is going, so may go America. And I say beware of politicians who claim that new government programs will reduce the deficit and the debt. That track record has never been one to brag about.
I categorically deny the aspersions cast by Starry. No one cares that Pelosi is a woman, that Franks is gay, or the Obama is of mixed race. NOT black, unless, of course, all you care about is skin color. I mean, if you care about such things, he IS “half white.”
Using the SPLC as a source is laughable. The SPLC will list any group that is to the right that might get them more money. That “explosive growth” of anti government groups, except for the Tea Party, is non-existent.
“The bullying, threats, and acts of violence following the passage of health care reform have been shocking, but they’re only the most recent manifestations of an increasing sense of desperation. (Except that the majority of bullying, threat, and violence comes from the left. The only violence attributable to the right comes from the minor vandalism of the “3 percenters.” You want to talk about threats and violence, take a look at the SIEU and ACORN.
It’s an extension of a now-familiar theme: some version of “take our country back.” The problem is that the country romanticized by the far right hasn’t existed for some time, and its ability to deny that fact grows more dim every day. President Obama and what he represents has jolted extremists into the present and forced them to confront the future. And it scares them. (Starry got this partly right. Our country, as it existed in the past, is gone. And we do want it back. We want the rule of law back. We want Constitutional government back. We want honorable Representatives and Senators back. We want a President that will stand up for America, not render obsequious apologies for it. We want a political system based on the Founders intent, not Marxist intent. Socialism kills.)
The CBO estimates of the health care reform debacle are only based on the lies and misrepresentations presented to it from Congress. They left out the 200 billion dollar doctor fix. They use 10 years of revenue for 6 years of “reform.” GIGO is always the case when it comes to government numbers. Representative Paul Ryan demolished the administrations numbers with his analysis, demonstrating that ObamaCare will cost, at the minimum, 1.4 TRILLION, over the the next 10 years. And will cost more for the “patients.” Oh, and still does NOT cover children with pre-existing conditions, UNLESS they are already covered.
If this is such an emergency, why do we have to wait 4 years?
Cargo, I think some people do care that Obama is even a little bit black ( I agree with you that he is also half white), Nancy Pelosi is female and that Barny Frank is gay. For some people, those are descriptors that are unacceptable.
You don’t care and I don’t care but some people care. I don’t like socialism and communism either. However, I don’t believe they are embodied in Obama. They have just become words now they have been hurled around so much.
I can’t say it better than this, so I won’t: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/28/AR2010032802353.html?nav=rss_opinion/columns
Two weeks before the House vote, the Congressional Budget Office released its estimate of Obama’s budget, including its health-care program. From 2011 to 2020, the cumulative deficit is almost $10 trillion. Adding 2009 and 2010, the total rises to $12.7 trillion. In 2020, the projected annual deficit is $1.25 trillion, equal to 5.6 percent of the economy (gross domestic product). That assumes economic recovery, with unemployment at 5 percent. Spending is almost 30 percent higher than taxes. Total debt held by the public rises from 40 percent of GDP in 2008 to 90 percent in 2020, close to its post-World War II peak.
To criticisms, Obama supporters make two arguments. First, the CBO says the plan reduces the deficit by $143 billion over a decade. Second, the legislation contains measures (an expert panel to curb Medicare spending, emphasis on “comparative effectiveness research”) to control health spending. These rejoinders are self-serving and unconvincing.
Suppose the CBO estimate is correct. So? The $143 billion saving is about 1 percent of the projected $12.7 trillion deficit from 2009 to 2020. If the administration has $1 trillion or so of spending cuts and tax increases over a decade, all these monies should first cover existing deficits — not finance new spending. Obama’s behavior resembles a highly indebted family’s taking an expensive round-the-world trip because it claims to have found ways to pay for it. It’s self-indulgent and reckless.
So Cargo, what do we do about it?
What does this Laboon joker have against Eric Cantor? Is he just unbalanced? he doesn’t even live in Virginia. What is his stake? Another winger…thanks to Bill4dogcatcher for his definition of winger. Why distinguish between which kind of winger. A winger is a winger.
From Gateway Pundit: http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/2010/03/father-of-dead-marine-ordered-to-pay-westboro-cults-court-costs/
If you can’t stand these thugs, the father of the Marine needs some help. Gateway Pundit has links to the story and links to donation sites.
Excerpts
Westboro cult leader Fred Phelps uses children at his funeral protests.
The father of a Marine who gave his life for his country in Iraq is being forced to pay the Westboro cult’s court costs.
Lawyers for Snyder say the Court of Appeals has ordered him to pay $16,510.80 to Phelps for costs relating to the appeal, despite the fact that the U.S. Supreme Court has agreed to review the Court of Appeals’ decision.
@Moon-howler
Moon,
We repeal it. This bill was a CF from the get go. Its all about wealth distribution, grabbing power, and dishonesty.
If the country wants a single payer, then lets have a bill with only that. Or lets discuss expanding medicare to all. Lets examine all the options, Republican, Democrat, and Independent. Instead of demonizing the health insurance an d care industries, lets set up a panel that will examine the problems objectively. Lets have doctors, nurses, insurance, politicians, CBO, etc all sit down and discuss it. LEAVE THE PRESIDENT OUT OF IT. He does not help with his partisanship. He can either sign or veto the result.
However, all of it should fall within the authority given to the government by the Constitution and case law.
Cargo, is there any way for you to check out the authenticity of this request?
I am outraged that this parent would be asked to give Westboro anything. They are hideous thugs!!!!!!
What is the background here? The father shouldn’t give them a red cent.
Not really, but , Gateway is a standup blog. Jim Hoft is a straight shooting guy. The original story is being reported in the Baltimore Sun. Link at Gateway.
The father lost a lawsuit against them. The court found in favor of 1st Amendment rights for the thugs.
Its being appealed. Yet the lower courts want him to pay now.
What happens if he says screw you? I guess I have a basic problem contributing to this because I would elect to go to jail before Westboro got one penny from me.
Has anyone thought of taking the judge out to the public square an putting him in stockades, tarring and feathering him or siccing Bill O’Reilly on him?
I only agree with O’Reilly abouut 20-25% of the time. However, when I do, it is usually over some jerk judge. O’Reilly has the prestige and the power and the money to go after judges. Here is a case where he should be contacted.
Cargo,
how can they sit down and talk about healthcare, when the partisanship even prevents them from talking about deficit reduction – http://www.opencongress.org/articles/view/1489-Senate-Reject-Deficit-Reduction-Commission
Where has all the healthcare reform been since Clinton last proposed reform? There are those who just like the status quo, and want no change. Also, I have not seen any proposal for a single payer system – just another fear factor.
Here is a question – if one has insurance and has a surgery done, the surgery cost is say, $3900. BUT, if you do not have insurance, the cost for the same surgery is $18,000 – and the Dr expects to be paid that $18,000 – why is that fair? Why not charge and be paid the real costs (including a profit) to the provider? Why punish those with no insurance so severely?
@Moon-howler
Moon! You sound so….so…..so…REPUBLICAN! (grin)
Pat,
Congress does not want deficit reduction. Both parties have an addiction to spending and having to justify their existence by “doing something, anything.”
I’m confused by your question. Is the cost of the surgery $3900 or is that the copay? Is the cost 18K or 3900? If one has insurance, the insurance pays the doc. How are you “punishing” the one without insurance? One has insurance to protect against possible costly outlays in the future. Medical insurance is the same as fire, flood, etc. But, I may be misunderstanding your question.
Government interference in the market is what started the idea of employer supplied health insurance. The rules and regs throughout THAT market have screwed it up royally. Here is a perfect example: http://www.squeakywheelseeksgrease.com/blog/?p=3152
I’ve read that some people have tried to pay cash for doctors and hospital bills and no one was able to actually get a straight answer because many prices are based on government regulations and insurance deals.