People like congresswoman Michele Bachman and Andrew Breitbart, ‘proprietor’ of the far right blog site biggovernment.org, just keep digging themselves in deeper and deeper. They need to take a page out of the Bill Clinton book and stop digging. According to Yahoo News: (highlighting mine)
Three Democratic congressmen — all black — say they heard racial slurs as they walked through thousands of angry protesters outside the U.S. Capitol. A white lawmaker says he heard the epithets too. Conservative activists say the lawmakers are lying.
What does the video show? Not much. Indeed, new interviews show that a much-viewed YouTube recording cited as evidence by conservatives was actually shot well after the time in question.It was March 20, near the end of the bitter health care debate, when Reps. John Lewis, Andre Carson and Emanuel Cleaver say that some demonstrators, many of them tea party activists, yelled the N-word as the congressmen walked from House office buildings to the Capitol.
Stung by the charges of racism, conservatives and tea party activists insist it never happened. And one of them is offering big money if anyone can prove it did.
With so many media and citizen cameras at the demonstration, any epithets would have been caught on tape, says Andrew Breitbart. He’s the web entrepreneur who released the video of ACORN workers counseling actors posing as a pimp and prostitute, and has pledged $100,000 to the United Negro College Fund if anyone provides proof of the epithets.
“It didn’t happen,” said Breitbart, who wasn’t there. “This is 2010. Even a racist is media-savvy enough not to yell the N-word.”
The dispute pits the lawmakers — one of them, Lewis, is a leader and survivor of 1960s civil rights battles — against conservatives determined to counter claims of racism within the predominantly white and middle-aged tea party movement. The criticism has proven a distraction to a nascent movement pushing a unified message of fiscal conservatism and limited government.
The issue still echoes in the media and blogosphere.
“Listen, I was there,” Carson, D-Ind., said in an interview. “In many regards I think (the challenges are) a veiled attempt to justify actions that are simply unjustifiable. I think we need to move toward a dialogue that explores why this kind of divisive and reprehensible language is still making it into our political debate.”
A fourth Democrat, Rep. Heath Shuler of North Carolina, who is white, backed up his colleagues, telling the Hendersonville (N.C.) Times-News that he heard the slurs.
A reconstruction of the events shows that the conservative challenges largely sprang from a mislabeled video that was shot later in the day.
Breitbart posted two columns on his Web site saying the claims were fabricated. Both led with a 48-second YouTube video showing Lewis, Carson, other Congressional Black Caucus members and staffers leaving the Capitol. Some of the group were videotaping the booing crowd.
Breitbart asked why the epithet was not captured by the black lawmakers’ cameras, and why nobody reacted as if they had heard the slur. He also questioned whether the epithets could have been shouted by liberals planted in the crowd.
But the 48-second video was shot as the group was leaving the Capitol — at least one hour after Lewis, D-Ga., and Carson walked to the Capitol, which is when they said the slurs were used.
Questioned about using a video on his Web site from the wrong moment, Breitbart stood by his claim that the lawmakers were lying.
“I’m not saying the video was conclusive proof,” he said.
Good grief. How can they keep denying it happened? There is a cast of thousands out there. How can anyone stand their ground that the N word wasn’t said? The smart thing would be to say, “I certainly hope no one in the crowd would use such foul language” and move on. I wouldn’t continue to keep staking my reputation on something so, well, likely to have happened. Walk down the hall for 15 minutes in any high school in America and you will hear that kind of language at least 5 times. Why do we expect better at a protest? Just because something wasn’t captured on film doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. We are back to the ‘when did you stop beating your wife kind of mentality.’
Foul ball on those who resort to that kind of name calling. Double foul on those who keep denying it happened. I would bet my next pay check that it happened, not because it was a Tea Party demonstration (whatever that means) but because it was a demonstration of pissed off people. Pissed off people are often rude. Why keep denying. Accept that some people have no manners, root them out of your organizations and move on.
You say in the open thread that we should move on, but, you then post this.
As I said earlier, its not the “deniers” that are digging themselves in deeper, its the accusers that offer NO proof. There is no link provided for the “wrong video,” and also no mention of the other videos that show the representatives walking through the crowd recording the protesters. And now, they bring out Shuler to back up their story, and emphasize his race? For what? Is his “whiteness” supposed to add authenticity? There are witnesses to Shuler’s location at the time of the incident and HE WAS NOT THERE. He’s nowhere to be found on ANY video.
You can’t believe that these people would lie? Why not? The Black Caucus expected racism to emerge. They recorded the crowd themselves. There is no evidence. There are numerous witnesses and cameras that state that it did not happen. How are we supposed to prove a negative? Its is up to the accusers to provide evidence or its tantamount to slander. This is nothing more than an ongoing smear campaign against the Tea Party.
Just because you’ve seen and heard bigotry in the past, that means it had to happen here? Because its the Black Caucus, they get a pass? Why? They have ulterior motives and agendas too. You would tell any conservative congressman to back up any accusations with evidence. Why not them?
The link might be on the yahoo link. It wasn’t my focus. You sure are putting words in my mouth. I didn’t say ‘these people’ wouldn’t lie. I said it was absurd to think that in a crowd of thousands that one person wouldn’t yell a racial slur.
My past experience tells me that is a lot more common than most people are willing to admit.
As for why it is continuing? I don’t know. You tell me why you are still posting about it. I don’t know why people keep challenging the black caucus. No one is going to win.
The concept of “innocent until proven guilty” would just suck the life out of this obvious race-baiting.
Emma, they didn’t say someone specifically called them names. They said they were called names. Why can’t you accept that that still happens?
Race baiting? Holy cow. Parallel universe time.
Cargo, all sorts of people were in that crowd. You don’t know if they were ‘tea party’ or not. What does that mean? Do people have to carry a card?
I don’t think it is trying to smear THE TEA PARTY. (whatever that is)
Actually I think you make a very good point, MH. It certainly is not inconceivable that a sole troublemaker yelled a racial epithet. The fact that it was not caught on tape shows that if it did happen, it was not widespread or systematic.
The incident speaks more loudly about the bias of the news media and the black caucus than it does about the Tea Party. Congressmen do not usually walk through a sea of protesters to get to the Capitol. It seems very likely that the walk through the crowd was a failed attempt to provoke a racial incident.
It also does seem inconceivable in the YouTube age that NO ONE captured any of the so-called racial epithets on tape.
I wrote the above before reading your comments.
The Tea Party members that I have seen do root out the offensive people and police their own. But this was not an accusation on just a few. This was a blanket accusation that the protesters were attacking the Black Caucus with bigotry as a whole. They were trying to impugn the group. They did not say that “a few individuals shouted out the n####r!” The said that the word was CHANTED.
How about the Democrats root out their bigots and lets move on. The Black Caucus went out there EXPECTING racism because the majority was white. They smeared the group because they expected no pushback. Usually, Republicans run for cover when the race card is played. But now, the race card has been played too much. Cry wolf and all that. Now, Prove it. If you (not you personally, MH) accuse a person or a group of racism, prove it.
Breitbart asked why the epithet was not captured by the black lawmakers’ cameras, and why nobody reacted as if they had heard the slur. He also questioned whether the epithets could have been shouted by liberals planted in the crowd.
So which is it? First he (Breitbart) claims no slurs occured and then he claims that liberal plants may have made the slurs. Duh. Slurs or no slurs?
Actually, instead of “he questioned,” I would have liked to see his “question” in quotes. Perhaps the context of his statement better explains that discrepancy. It is possible that one or two people shouted out bigoted statements. And its possible that those people were plants. The accusation was a group smear that accused them of widespread bigotry.
The idea that people who show the President dressed as a voodoo witch doctor would/could be the same people that shout out racial slurs is inconceivable? Not likely, sorry, not buyin it. I believe those are the EXACT people that I imagine would shout out the N word at elected officials.
@Moon-howler
Its continuing because the there is an orchestrated movement on the left to discredit the Tea Party. I mentioned it in the open thread in reply to Starry. I replied here because you made a post similar to her comment.
Otherwise, I would not have mentioned it. Did not mean to put words in your mouth. I understood you being supportive of their unsupported claims. If I was wrong, sorry.
Elena,
Really? Well, one can imagine it. But, did they? I can imagine a lot of things. There is no evidence. One can use offensive satire without being a bigot. Face it, Obama is “black” in appearance. The Health care bill is and was considered to be idiotic health care. They used a witch doctor inference to lampoon both. Does that make the sign holder racist? Not necessarily. Insensitive to polite norms? Probably.
I think probably it is fair to say that both ‘sides’ tend to try to disparage. We certainly carried several articles about the chairman here in pwc making ugly remarks about the coffee party.
And I might have said something that led you think I supported unsupported claims.
Here is how I really feel. People, regardless of who they are, are often emboldened by crowd mentality. Not everyone in a crowd is generally part of one group. I could easily go into a crowd, cup my hand over my mouth and holler the N word. I know how to do it. (or the F word or any word I wanted)
I could also go into a crowd and cozy up to folks and act like I was their pal and do something similar. It just isn’t uncommon. i would not continue to deny it. They sound silly and well,..racist. It can’t be proven or not proven either way.
I just think stuff happens at demonstrations, regardless of what kind of demonstration. Right/left or in between. I base this on experience, not feelings.
Here is the link debunking the video that the Tea Party people have been presenting as evidence that the N-word incident didn’t happen:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_n_word_feud
The Tea Party people have been claiming that the N-word incident did not happen. They present this video as proof. The video they present is that of a different time and place. The incident occured before the video they presented took place.
It’s also interesting that many of the Tea Party people claim that, well, if it did happen, it was done by Democrats, and/or was provoked by the black congressmen. They contradict themselves.
No doubt about it – there are a bunch of uncivilized, racist, hateful bigots in the Tea Party crowds. They prefer to use violence and intimidation to impose their will upon the rest of us, just like the Taliban do in Afghanistan. They do not respect our Constitution or the democratic process.
Heath Shuler was the quarterback for the Washington Redskins football team. He is a man of great honor and integrity. To say that he was not there just because one can’t see him in a video is really asinine. To call Mr. Shuler a liar is truly reprehensible and disgusting.
@Starryflights
I also posted a statement from someone that stated they saw him elsewhere at the time. No other witnesses saw him there. And if he was there, why did it take so long for him to speak up? Just because he’s a football player, he get’s a pass. Heck, he became a representative. That alone shows poor judgement 😉
Starry, just wondering how many tea party events you personally attended and how many of tea party members you have talked face to face in order to come up with your conclusion?
“No doubt about it – there are a bunch of uncivilized, racist, hateful bigots in the Tea Party crowds. They prefer to use violence and intimidation to impose their will upon the rest of us, just like the Taliban do in Afghanistan. They do not respect our Constitution or the democratic process.”
I would be willing to bet that you came up with this brilliant assessment while sitting on your couch watching MSDNC and reading the Huffington Post without ever actually stepping foot outside.
I didn’t say all the Tea Party people were uncivilized, racist, hateful bigots. But those who called Congressman Lewis an n—–r are the ones with the biggest mouths and thereby represent the movement, intentionally or not.
I find it amazing that alleged racist statements like this get sooooo much air time in the far left media and this site but actual recorded and documented acts of racism aimed at black conservatives, and even instigated by the White House, is completely accepted and ignored (this site included).
For example, the White House had suggested the people need to hit back twice as hard against those who were against HCR. The next day Kenneth Gladney, a black man, was beaten outside of a town hall meeting while being called racist names by SEIU members: http://biggovernment.com/jhoft/2010/03/03/court-date-set-for-the-kenneth-gladney-beatdown-case/
The left’s racism shows time and time again but is never called out. Check out this article from 2004 from the Daily Kos, it was about Colin Powell titled “Uncle Tom Powell Stumps for Massa Bush”…. wow, that’s not racist?
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/4/12/183155/559
So, is this perfectly acceptable from MSM and sites like this because they are against black conservatives? Is it not racism because it’s directed at black conservatives?
What does that headline possibly have to do with this blog? You have missed the point. Again.
Tiresome!
George Bush was called names also, by members of congress, and that wasn’t considered racist. No proof, no problem! That’s how it works in THIS country, or at least the one I remember!
@hello
blah blah blah
watch your step. Argue the issue without shrieking about this site. If you don’t like this site, don’t come here. That should be obvious by now.
SA, what was George Bush called by congress that had to do with his race? I don’t recall his race ever being an issue…
Sorry Moon, not shrieking, just pointing out that the charges of racism or racist statements seem to only be a one-way street. There is never any mention of documented (recorded or otherwise) accounts of racism against black conservatives.
It’s somewhat of an epidemic that seems to be perfectly acceptable. No wonder if your black and a conservative you just keep it to yourself. I can’t think of any other accounts of blatant racism that goes completely unchallenged. Any idea of why?
Not trying to be snarky or an a-hole, it just boggles my mind as to why it’s okay to be racist to people depending on their political views…
Hello, you have missed my point. Rewriting it won’t help that situation. Go reread the post. I have not said anyone person or group is racist. I have said it is easy to believe that in a huge crowd, some people are emboldened to do stupid things.
It simple to disavow racist remarks that might have been made by unknown people and move on, don’t argue that it didn’t happen.
Any kid can go into a crowd and shout bad words and not get caught…crowds a lot smaller than that one.
I get your point Moon but it’s a known fact that some on the left have been purposefully posing as tea party members at rallies just to shout racist and/or crazy statements in an attempt to make the tea party look racist and/or crazy.
http://biggovernment.com/publius/2010/04/12/ap-foes-of-tea-party-movement-to-infiltrate-rallies/
Also, you still have not answered my question, why is racism acceptable, ignored, dismissed when it’s aimed at black conservatives? Are they considered a lower class of citizen because of their political views? Why doesn’t MSM report of these stories, why doesn’t the NAACP complain about them, why don’t left leaning blogs ever mention or address them?
biggovernment.com is a rag in my opinion and the person who owns it is simply not a person I have any respect for.
I have no idea about your question. Why are you asking me? I don’t speak for the NAACP nor do I know how they think. I am not a member.
Too much whining for me today.
What you see is what you get as far as topics go.
Hello, I read your link and some of the comments which followed the article. Posters were saying that TPers should call out and denounce the “infiltrators/bigots” among the crowd. Well, IMO they should have done that months ago – starting with the loons who disrupted the townhall meetings.
Infiltrators can be cops, the opposition, disgruntled members of the party,or the local loons – you just have to accept that they’re going to be there and act civilized.
Censored is right. The self policing should have been done last summer when everyone else was trying to listen and learn. Instead what we got was a bunch of horses’s asses disrupting meetings so that many people ended up learning nothing. The great authority was Glenn Boo Hoo Beck because he was the only one who could be heard other than “Nails on the Chalk Board” Bachmann. The bad reputation comes from those people who set themselves up as leaders. Those wanting to come across as the voice of reason should have spoken up sooner and squashed people like Bachmann and Beck like bugs. Too little, too late. There was just much self-maligning in the beginning.
No telling who is out there now amongst you. My suggestion would be to know the ones you are with.
The bad reputation only exists among those that are listening only to the msm and not attending the meetings or rallies. The townhalls were disruptive because the representatives, the same that tried to pass a bill before the recess so that they would not have to discuss it, tried to pass a bill not read, and ram it through, underestimated the wrath of their constituents and tried to use talking points and were condescending. Many of the crowd had read the bill on line and were upset that the reps were willing to pass it without reading it. Oh wait, they passed THIS bill without knowing what was in it either. At least, this time the constituents were able to read it online before the vote. The bad reputation exists in a Congress that is lying to the country, enacting an agenda that does not help the country, and holds half of the citizenry in contempt.
You hit Beck and Bachmann as leaders in the movement. There were NO leaders at the time. The Town Halls were spontaneous. The current Tea Party has no leaders. It is a collection of groups across the country. As much as you wish Beck to be the fount of evil, he is a voice of reason. You just don’t agree with him. He counsels thrift, constitutional government, and PEACEFUL political action. I notice that no one has proved ANY of his statements incorrect or misleading. I don’t know enough about Bachmann to speak about her. Beck is influential. But, he is the first to tell you, investigate on your own and don’t take his word for things.
What self policing was needed? The Town Hall people and the Tea Party members have been the VICTIMS of violence, not its instigators. The Tea Party has been the victim of bigotry across the nation on every network. What is your objection to Breitbart? Because he tells the truth about how Hollywood and the government work? Apparently anyone that points out the “man behind the curtain” or the hypocrisy of the left is anathema.
The fact that the left is planning to infiltrate in order to act bigoted or idiotic is evidence that the movement has policed itself. If anything like that was happening (with the exception of isolated incidents) then there would be no need to infiltrate and add it. It would already be happening.
The racism I see happens primarily on the left. The violence is DEFINITELY from the left. If you don’t follow the liberal line, you are considered less than human in the eyes of the left activists. The left threatens dire violence in marches, on blogs, and on the networks, yet, there is no condemnation. Pelosi calls fellow citizens nazis and there is no condemnation. Beck is mischaracterized as promoting violence and promoting sedition, yet there is no evidence of that. His programs support the opposite and working within the system. But, if the Tea Party accurately describes elements of ObamaCare, the Tea Party is lying. And then the truth comes out that they were right, after it passes. And there is no condemnation of the lying Congress.
1. I said Beck and Bachmann set themselves up as leaders.
2. I watched most of my tea party stuff on foxy roxy and a little conservative websites. There has been much lamentation about the liberals and msm <---- I hate that expression not covering it. The only exception I can think of would be I saw a couple of townhall meetings where Randall Terry showed up. I got those off of liberal websites to see more detail. Obviously no one wants that associated with themselves so the conservatives didnt covere it. I know what I saw and I know that is where my impressions came from...Sorry, movements can have bad reputations with me. Do I think everyone is a dog? No. Do I think there are dogs? yes and I more than a few by name even. And Cargo, its ok for you to the Tea Party and me not to. I am not singing the praises of the left at all. If there is a left counter movement, I don't even know what it is. The Tea Party does have a bad reputation with many moderates, some conservatives and many liberals. Just is.
As for Beck, he is far too futuristic to prove wrong. How do you prove your grandchildren will be paying for your waste? You can’t. I have heard him wrong on several things. He also has toned it down quite a bit. He isn’t acting as bizarre since he became more mainstream. I expect he was told to turn the volume down by Fox.
A voice of reason? Holy Cow, I hope not.
And you are right, I don’t like what he says. No one in their right mind would LIKE what he says.
His show is actually fairly good today. Good guests.
Apparently, then, I’m not in my right mind. I like that he is spelling out connections, the background, the why of the current political situation. How is the too futuristic? He’s made predictions for years. And they’ve come true. He was saying in 2006 that the housing market was a bubble. He was saying last year the the TARP, after first being for it, was going to be a slush fund as was the Stimulus. His predictions are based on what is happening. And economists are finally saying what he said last year. The spending is not sustainable. ANd he is the only one offering alternatives. And the only one holding both parties accountable and calling for a return to constitutional limitations on federal government. What’s not to like?
You might like his style but how can you like what he says? It is very depressing. @ cargosquid
Warnings are always depressing. I can take or leave his style. Sometimes it gets in the way. His SUBSTANCE is valid. His history is mostly accurate, if a little simplified for his medium. His predictions are based on logic and current information. And his groundwork and journalism puts most journalists to shame.
He does good work. You may not agree with him, but, no one has proved him wrong on anything substantial.
If he wasn’t warning us, who would be? Think about this….what if he’s right? If he’s wrong, nothing changes, but, if he’s right……we are screwed.
People have been dooming and glooming for years.
Different people do different types of research. Everything is open to interpretation. That is why people torture themselves with methods of historical reseach again and again.
If everything were clear cut there would be very little room for discussion.
@Starryflights
Heath Shuler just confirmed that he did not hear anything; that he was NOT THERE.
From the Wall St. Journal: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303348504575184081507879688.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_MIDDLETopOpinion
“But when we phoned Shuler’s office this afternoon, press secretary Julie Fishman told us the local reporter misunderstood. According to Fishman, Shuler’s comments to the Times-News referred to the general tenor of the protests, not to the black congressmen’s specific allegations.
Fishman said that Shuler was not walking with Cleaver and did not hear the “N-word.” Shuler was, however, in proximity to Rep. Barney Frank of Massachusetts and heard someone call Frank, as Fishman put it, a “communist F-word” (that would be “faggot,” not the other F-word). At least one reporter also was said to have heard the antigay slur directed at Frank, so we’re inclined to believe that claim. But the allegations of racial slurs remain uncorroborated.”
Still curious why this is still going on? Cargo, you just haven’t known enough good ole boys in your life. I know people who would do that. They don’t belong to much of anything. I just don’t understand why this pissing contest goes on and on and on.
Moon, just letting Starry know that her info on Shuler was wrong. That’s all.
Moon, growing up in New Orleans and Pensacola and 25 years in the Navy, and living in Virginia since 86,…..yeah, I’ve known a lot of good ole boys.
However, I think that I’m missing your meaning….
Oops, his/ her for Starry, since….we don’t know.
So Heath Schuler confirmed that the Tea Party folks called Barney Frank a faggot, but he didn’t specifically hear the N-word?
From your link:
“It was the most horrible display of protesting I have ever seen in my life,” Shuler said.
Great bunch of folks in the Tea Party movement. Why don’t you take your kids or grandkids to a Tea Party rally?
Yep. Never said that some idiot didn’t fall for Frank’s provocations and called him a faggot. Should have called him a corrupt, crooked as#H@le. That would have also been accurate. Impolite. More politically correct. And also accurate.
Maybe LA GOBs are different that VA GOBs. Don’t yours say crude things and hurl racial slurs? I sure have heard it the better part of my life.
Cargo, How did the gun demonstration go? Why were you out there and did people like your back pack? I guess this is a high holy day for you?
I just hope everyone is safe out there. I don’t trust crowds. Too many nuts.
I’m heading to the MONDAY one in DC on the 19th. The one in Richmond was a local rally, kind of a gearing up for the big one. Didn’t go to that one. About 100 people showed up. I’ll be wearing the pack pack on Monday because I have to bring a book for the bus, cameras, and food and water. DC is expensive.
What’s a GOB?
@ caqrgo
Good Ole Boy
Ah, Don Williams sang a song about them…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzGx_XzxDeM
You may have known more than I have known actually….
GOBs sit on dog food bags out in front of grocery stores.
GOBs like their bourbon and branch. (so do lots of others)
GOB. Should’a known. D’oh!