Actually, Texas has never done away with corporal punishment. A town outside of Fort Hood, Texas has brought back that weapon of choice, the paddle.
It sounds like parents were the driving force behind bringing the paddle back to Temple. Those interviewed said that discipline has never been better. To date, only 1 student has been paddled but word must have gotten around.
According to USA Today:
There are times when maybe a good crack might not be a bad idea,” said Robert Pippin, a custom-home builder whose son graduated from Temple schools.
Parents didn’t want the rod spared at school because many paddle their kids at home and they wanted consistent discipline, said John Hancock, an assistant superintendent with more than 40 years as an educator.
“We’re rural central Texas. We’re very well educated, but still there are those core values. Churches are full on Sundays,” Hancock said. “This is a tool we’d like in the toolbox for responding to discipline issues.”
At least one student seems to see its value as a deterrent. “A lot of kids have tempers,” said Abby Jones, a junior at Temple High School. “Those kids that would be paddled would think of it as a threat . . . and maybe would be better.”
The Post cites the most recent figures available showing that about 225,000 students nationwide were at the receiving end of corporal punishment in 2006. About 25% were Texans.
Besides Texas, corporal punishment is still legal in 19 states, mostly in the South. It’s use is waning (Ohio stopped last year) and Congress may consider a federal ban.
How many parents have said ‘nobody touches my child?’ I would suggest that kids knowing it could happen is a huge deterrent. Knowing that the parents have high expectations for behavior is a big deterrent for disrespectful behavior. Why is congress trying to get in the act? Maybe some of them need a good paddling.
Seriously, should schools have paddling? Should it be limited to a principal or other designated disciplinarian? Should Congress outlaw paddling?
Just a warning, don’t go searching for corporal punishment pictures. I ran in to some very ‘interesting’ websites. Sisterspanksalot.com, redass.org were all out there. I forgot about that. Geeez!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Can you find a similar chart that shows the percentage of juveniles in trouble with the law? It would be interesting to see if there was any correlation between the lack of corporal punishment and juvenile law breaking. On the other hand, and don’t cringe, but does the present corporal punishment also apply to those in the country illegally, or do they get a pass on that also?
It didn’t say. I would assume every kid at school could technically be paddled. To date, one has been.
I had a hard time finding what little I found. This thread was suggested by Marin. No more looking. You have no idea what one gets to ‘see’ when googling anything with the word ‘spank’ in it. ‘Paddle’ doesn’t yield much better results.
Spare the rod and spoil the child!
Paddling in school should be just like spanking at home. It shouldn’t be banned, but it should be used very, very rarely. The problem with banning it completely is that it removes the threat of it since the kids know they can’t be paddled. If done right, a kid may never need to be paddled, but the fear of it can be an effective deterrent.
Agreed, visitor. I don’t think it should be routine and I don’t think just anyone should be able to do it. It takes away the mystique and it also creates more room for abuse.
Most importantly, it sends a strong message to kids about parent expectations.
When I was a kid you were expected to behave in school. If you didnt it was a poor reflection on your parents. As an adult, I learned that my parents had some serious disagreements with teachers but we kids NEVER knew about it. My parents put up a united front. That’s just how it was done back in the day.
Sadly, parents send the opposite signal today in too many cases.
So why is it that we as adults, having been raised under stricter rules, tend to want to allow anything goes these days, or at least that’s what it seems? Is it that the liberal lawyer pools have taken over in place of common sense rules and regs? Fear of lawsuits? These days if a teacher so much as raises their voice to a student the school is sued for imparting mental aguish. Speaking of liberal lawyer pools, were does the ACLU stand on this? I’m amazed that you can still get away with enforcing corporal punishment and not have to be spend millions defending it!
Ha, Moon and I agree on something. Sorry everybody, the issue is closed.
Yup, lock it up. Done deal now. snicker.
SA, I don’t know. Good question though. I wonder if polled, how many parent age adults instead of grandparent age adults would secretly agree with us? Oddly enough, many parents would like to see things improved in schools as far as discipline goes. How many of those kids would say but not my kid? Is that the NIMBY of discipline?
I think TV is more of an influence than lawyers. Kids shows are vulgar and focus on bodily function humor. Anythinkg goes and there are no taboo subjects. There is no difference between public speech and private speech; almost no difference in work place speech and non-work place speech.
These days I don’t want anyone laying a hand on my child. My children have experienced way too many instances of mayhem in the classroom, while multiple students say that the teacher was obliviously at his or her computer and the teacher later claims he or she saw or heard nothing at all. Please— give these fools the power to hit my kids? I don’t think so.
Yell at them, take away privileges, throw them out of the classroom, expel them from school. But if you lay a hand on my kid, I’m callin’ my lawyer.
MH, the bastardization of the meaning of Free Speech has caused a great deal of the problem in my opinion. The original idea is that you could take verbal issue with the actions of government, and not be thrown in jail for it. (Although some have forgotten that definition as it pertains to the Tea Party folks) Not the right to wear obscene T-shirts, and personally attack people in public.
@Emma
Agree completely, Emma!
If parents must spank, that’s one thing. It should be used sparingly and only as a last resort. I also think spanking should cease at a certain age. When it will take extreme hitting to make a point, it’s definitely time to try another tactic.
I knew spanking would never be a deterrent when my child laughed as I spanked her. Taking things away has always worked better.
Finally, if parents want kids to behave in school, then they need to instill in children respect for school rules. The message should always be, “Misbehave in school, and there will be hell to pay a home.” Too many parents do not educate their children to be respectful. Now, I’m not saying kids taught respect will be perfect. But consequences for actions inside and outside the home go a long way.
My question to parents who want corporal punishment is, “Why do you expect the school to do YOUR job?”
@Second-Alamo
DRESS CODES. We need them desperately in schools.
Pinko, I agree on dress codes, but the reason for allowing corporal punishment at school is to cover those cases where the parents don’t do their job of teaching respect. On the subject on respect, look how we treat the highest office in the land, and on the other hand look at how the person holding the highest office in the land respects the free speech opinions of others. Nice example for young ones to emulate!
Back in the olden days when I was a student corporal punishment was a standard disciplinary measure – at least through sixth grade. Usually one student per classroom per year would manage to be sent to the principal’s office for a paddling. That was enough to instill fear and good behavior in the rest of class. Of course, parents didn’t come to school and challenge the principal because, as Moon-howler said, they viewed their kiddo’s bad behavior as a reflection on themselves.
One of my sisters became terrified of going to school after one boy in her class was paddled and returned to class crying. She played sick or cried and begged my mother to let her stay home for months after that. To this day, I could mention her second grade teacher’s name and the first thing out of her mouth would be something about the paddling. This teacher had a daughter, son-in-law, and husband (vice principal and paddler)teaching at the same elementary school. I don’t think my sister relaxed about school until we transferred to the city schools years later. It may be merely coincidental, but she was a poor student compared to the rest of us. She probably worried more about paddling than she did her classwork. Just goes to show that many more students are negatively affected than just the paddlee.
I don’t think I’d support corporal punishment but I wish I knew a way to bring back shame to the parents whose kids are habitual problems in class. Maybe they should be forced to take parenting classes. And paddled if they fail to show up – hee hee!
There are dress codes in all schools. Again…same problem. Not my kid. Who wants to spend the day dealing with some irate parent over whether their daughter can wear a t shirt saying “get a load of these jugs?” So its easier to ignore….
Emma doesn’t want anyone touching her kid. Neither does Pinko.
NIMBY?
I think its that attitude rather than the actual paddling. I agree that classroom teachers shouldn’t be the enforcers with a paddle. They need to be teaching. There is room for abuse. I saw a little of it while growing up. Spanking for not doing your homework? How about an F.
As far as sitting at their computer, when you look at how many lessons are delivered via in focus and smart boards, that might be a stretch. Entering grades, taking attendance, presenting lessons from a smart board all involve the computer.
I am willing to bet that more time is expected playing around on the computer (including blogging) from work by the non teaching population than from the teaching population. Who has time with a room full of kids?
I went to elementary school in Mississippi in first grade (1974) and the school used corporal punishment. Every teacher had a paddle hanging on the board. Fortunately, my teacher never used the paddle. Instead, students who committed infractions stood at the chalk board with their noses against it, or were made to stand in the corner. I do vividly remember walking down the hall to the cafeteria one day and there was a boy tied to a chair with tape over his mouth. That kinda freaked me out and I went home and told my mom who muttered something like “can’t wait to get out of this state”.
I personally as a teacher would not strike my students even if the law permitted it. That said, I think schools should bring back mandatory Sat. detention, be allowed to remove recess privileges (some schools do not allow this), use ISS more than home suspension when applicable, make parents of frequently disruptive children hang with their kid at school all day, or hire an adult to shadow the student all day and then bill the parents for the service. Furthermore, there should be some penalty in place for parents who tells the principal that their child’s disruptive behavior is the school’s problem.
I have no problem with there being a dean of discipline who is authorized to give a wallop or 2 to the very deserving. It doesn’t have to be done often.
Much of the problem today is brought about by the ‘you can’t touch me’ attitude.
I have seen corporal abused twice. Once as a kid and once as an adult. As an adult, I reported it. As a kid, you sit there, keep your mouth shut and hope you aren’t next.
Censored reminded me of my math teacher in 5th and 6th grade. He was a bully (and physically a very large man) who threatened to paddle us, or to wash our hands with his legendary wire brush (I don’t remember him actually doing it). I used to get physically ill–or pretend I was sick–to try to get out of class. I was terrified to ask him questions or admit that I didn’t understand something. Needless to say, I was a poor math student who suffered years of math anxiety until I went to nursing school and took a “math for meds” course and realized how easy some of it really was for me, and that I wasn’t somehow math-impaired.
I also remember how the teachers treated a boy in our class who today would have been diagnosed with ADHD. The early 1970’s solution? Humiliate him by forcing him to sit in front of the class clutching a baby doll. Because he was disabled, his behavior didn’t change, he just became more of an outcast.
I have no sense of romanticizing about the good old days of corporal punishment in the public schools. It was evil then, and would be evil now.
There was a case recently of an autistic child who was beaten in a state that allows corporeal punishment. Allowing hitting of any kind allows for abuse. Disabled children, especially those who are difficult to deal with, can become the primary targets. It’s easier to slap a kid than deal with one that has problems, right?
DB is right.
I remember getting whacked in 8th grade because I forgot the combination to my gym locker.
It did make me determined not to let that happen again; got a lock with a key.
I’m pretty sure that whacking kids is not as productive as giving them Saturday school with no electronics, few breaks, a droning teacher and a clock on the wall that is verrrrrrry slow. That would certainly cure me of misbehaving.
Come on folks. It’s the parents duty to notify the school if their child is a special case. All these stories of the negative side of corporal punishment unbalanced by any positive results is the exact reason why no action is taken these days. Everyone is soooooo focused on any minute possible bad outcome of any action no matter how small that it paralyzes society from taking that action. Hence we have schools run by the students with the teachers afraid of doing anything that obviously should be done, but can’t because the masses are ready to condemn them for it. We need a society that finally says Enough is Enough, here’s the rules and you Will abide by them!
The problem is that it is a crime for an adult to hit another adult. So why should it be legal for an adult to hit a child? And what does that hitting teach the child? That if a person won’t do your will that you can hit them into submission?
Near Atlanta, where I taught public school for several years in the early 1970’s,
teachers were supplied a paddle by the county. We called it the
“Board of Education”.
Has anyone read the best difinitive study on spanking before the age of 5?
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1981019,00.html
spanking is hitting, I don’t care what name you call it.
Right on Emma!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My husband pisses me off sometimes, but I can’t hit him into submission!
But we might like to @ Elena 😉
It sounds to me like the people who don’t want corporal punishment in schools also simply don’t believe it in. Would those who don’t want their children spanked by an administrator be willing to sign paperwork to include some other punishment that would send a strong message and wouldn’t be something that would get the school in to a long legal entanglement?
I am very opposed to having those responsible for the delivery of instruction being the wack disciplinarians. As I said, I have seen it abused and I don’t think it involved due process. I also think the parents should be called before corporal punishment is delivered.
Studies will never agree on the efficacy of spanking vs not spanking.
Hi Bill, and welcome. I believe paddling someone for forgetting a locker combination is abusive. Every kid I have ever known hates Sat. school. That takes their time. ho ho ho
I sort of agree with Emma and Pinko. 30-40 years ago? Maybe. Today? I don’t think so. Just too much craziness in our society right now. And what teacher or principal in this age of extreme litigation wants to risk actually injuring a child even though unintentional? If I were a teacher, I would not participate in this, for my own legal protection.
Some answer has to be found for the growing classroom discipline problem, however. Somehow we are going to have to find a way to drag all parents into the discipline equation . We as a society have really screwed this up by letting too many parents off the hook.
@Moon-howler
Kids need to know there are consequences for their behavior. This means that every level of behavior must be addressed. For example, in elementary school, kids who behave well get to pick a “treasure” from a box. It’s positive reinforcement, right? It works well when the kids are young.
I’m wondering what kids get for positive reinforcement as they get older. In middle school, for example, is it more reinforcing for a kid to show off to the popular kids than it is to shut up and do their work? If so, why is this? I know there are awards (like athletic trophies and certificates) but those aren’t quite so important to some kids. And for others, those trophies seem unattainable.
I’m not a proponent for awarding children just for doing the basics, but I do think kids (and adults) need to feel good about what they are doing. They need to know what they do means something and that there is purpose. Sometimes I look at these kids and I see little adults who are just doing whatever they can to feel good at the time because they don’t think there’s anything after that, anything worth striving for.
How many inmates started off like this as kids? How many dysfunctional parents started off like this as kids? Are WE like them? If so, are we afraid to confront our kids because if we do, we have to confront ourselves?
The reinforcement shifts. The parents and teachers grow less in importance as the peers grow more in importance. I have forgotten the right words for things…
Older kids don’t give a crap what their teachers and parents think compared to their peers. So how do you reward them?
I have no answers there….just questions.
At what point does negative reinforcement do more than positive? I believe there is an intersection somewhere and then it all goes down there from here. Maybe going to school, behaving and doing your work needs to get treated like a job. That sort of makes me sick but maybe that is what it will take.
@Moon-howler
“Maybe going to school, behaving and doing your work needs to get treated like a job.”
We tell our kids that all the time. It’s their job just as we have ours. We discuss how there are consequences on the job just as there are in school. My parents and hubby’s taught us this way. I think that’s one reason we have a good work ethic. Many kids don’t. They think the world should be handed to them. Why do they think that? Who’s teaching them that?
Their parents teach them that apparently. Do kids get paid for going to school? Some localities were talking about trying that.
Education is not a federal issue on any level. I am against corporal punishment for many of the reasons stated above. I would not trust the judgment of any person to punish my children to that elevated level. I understand that some parents are abdicating their responsibilities but this is not the answer.
I agree educaton is not a federal issue. I just have no problem with a school district in Texas chosing to use corporal punishment. It is illegal in VA. The one thing I am definitely opposed to is it being teachers slapping kids around.
@Moon-howler
Agreed, it is not legal in VA and I would oppose it if it were.
Those sort of things don’t usually reverse themselves. I wouldn’t care if it were administered by …administrators. But I doubt if VA will reverse. What they might want to consider doing is getting over the silliness about kids staying in school until they are 18. It is the law but it isn’t the law.
Does anyone know how that works? How does one ‘quit’ school now?
Here is a link to compulsary attendance. I know it technically is supposed to be from 5 to 18 but a lot of kids quit before 18. Something like 25% of them.
http://leg1.state.va.us/000/cod/22.1-254.HTM
It would be okay if you look at educators and say, “You look like a responsible person, you can paddle. Now you over here, you don’t look as responsible so you can’t paddle.” That’s not how it works. By allowing corporal punishment in schools (which is far from a spanking at home), you are allowing those who don’t always have good judgment to hit children with a board. If you could see the pictures I’ve seen (bruised and battered bodies from paddlings), you would wonder what a five year old child could possibly do to deserve such abuse. Many times abuse is not reported because parents (or children) know their rights or pushed under the rug by the school or system. There are other (more effective) alternatives. Is brut force the only thing educators can think of? Surely our society has learned better techniques. When teachers provide engaging lessons, not only do the children learn more, discipline incidents are decreased – do some research and you’ll see that’s true! Ban corporal punishment! Usually when you hear people say “spare the rod, spoil the child”, these people aren’t always interesteed in other lessons of the Bible – just this one. Give me a break – get civilized. It’s illegal to beat prisoners in jail, but we can still do it to children. By the way, I bet it’s illegal for these schools (high poverty/minority) to receive federal funds and pay teachers to hit the very children they are there to protect.
I am very opposed to teachers being in the position of paddling. I have seen it abused.
However, I would not roll over dead if there was a process where a person removed from the infraction paddled.
Engaging lessons don’t cure all discipline problems. Far from it. That’s educational research papers for you though.
I hope you called the police if you saw kids who had been beaten in a school, Diana.