Prince William County set the trend for Arizona? That would be us, real trend setters. On the news tonight on channel 5 news at 6 pm and again at 11 pm , it was announced that all eyes would be on Prince William County because three years ago they enacted a Resolution similar to that which Arizona recently signed into law. Well, sort of.
Channel 5 next interviewed chairman of the board of supervisors, Corey Stewart. Corey told the viewers that it saved lives when illegal immigrants were identified and deported. He further explained that enforcing immigration laws in PWC has had a very large impact on reducing crime in the county. He elaborated that our overall crime rate is at a 19 year low.
The reporter added that of the 2000 arrests for serious crime, 121 of those arrested were illegal aliens. Those figures certainly don’t seem to support what Corey just said on the news. In fact, I am curious about where this all time low in 19 years comes from. What was happening 19 years ago that we had such a huge crime rate? Corey seems to be cherry picking his crime statistic once again. Just thinking back on the horrific crimes committed in the past year or so in Prince William County, I don’t see how anyone can say that our crime rate is lower for serious crime. Prince William has seen an increase in urban type crimes. I expect Corey will continue his anecdotal account of how things are here in Prince William rather than relying on empirical data gathered from crime statistics.
His fellow supervisors need to call him out on his shoddy reporting. I wish one of them could call channel 5 and repudiate Corey Stewart’s loose and slippery statistics. On the other hand, perhaps Corey wants to be the next Sheriff Joe. meanwhile, I wish he would just stick to accurate facts.
The Washington Post has more details. While Corey is technically correct about the new low in crime, he fails to tell the entire story and he fails to mention the rise in violent crime. This report can hardly be correlated to illegal immigration. To do so is a stretch.
Corey Stewart’s an idiot. Only he could spin a rise in violent crime as a good thing.
Here we go again……just change the blog name to CoreyStewartisanidiot.net and be done with it. At least the old anti-bvbl name was accurate. This site is as nutty as the dark page is. The notoriously Corey loving Potomac News on page 1 trumpeted the lowest crime numbers in 19 years…and to play the non sequiter game….only this site could spin a reduction in overall crime as a bad thing
If I saw evidence of a reduction in crime, I would praise Chief Deane. However, we have had a rise in violent crime. Did you read the Post article? Let’s see, just last weekend a man was killed up near the Barn in Sudley. We have had a woman stabbed in front of her child, a man bludgeoned to death by his wife’s ex boyfriend, a child killed in a creek, 3 teenagers raped, a woman killed in a car-jacking, a mother and son killed in a home invasion gone bad, a woman killed in Dale City that touched off international red flags, numerous drive by shootings, a mother and her children killed by a stepfather in a rage….shall I go on or is everyone sickened enoujgh? Those incidents of horrible crime have been committed in PWC in the past 18 months or so. Those are just the tip of the iceberg. There are others not enumerated here.
Those incidents also had nothing to do with illegal immigration.
Tom, you do not have the right to come to our blog and insult us. Feel free to argue the issues but it might be a good idea not to come here just to name call. It won’t be tolerated.
Tom,
I find your supposition wholly inaccurate. What should we do when the Chairman of our Board outright lies? Should we not call him on it? I wonder why Corey is the only politician that we have to continually repudiate? Well, it’s because NO OTHER supervisor is an attention or media junkie. Futhermore, you are speaking about facts that you clearly not understand.
If you do a little research, you will find, that the crime rate in PWC was DECLINING during the growth of the immigrant population, that cannot be disputed. What decreased after the resolution went into effect was assualts. Violent crime actually increased. I will have to read the potomac news article, however, what is interesting, is that the immigrant population is once again increasing in PWC. Sooo, what would one conclude from that, immigrants lower crime rates?
We would not HAVE to comment on Corey if he didn’t say and do such ridiculous things. It’s almost as though Corey is the king of the Board and the other supervisors are this silent mute majority.
I’m actually one of the few people who come to these blogs to have a serious discussion regarding issues and constantly try to remind people that insults and name calling have no place in a civil political discussion. I place all of my past posts (on multiple sites) into evidence on that. I notice that it’s alright to call Corey Stewart an “idiot”. Apparently it depends on who is getting called a name as to whether it is namecalling. As for the crime statistics, the above is an example of what often frustrates me. “If I saw a reduction in crime, the praise would go to Chief Deane.” Since we have seen an increase in violent crime should the heat not be directed at the Chief as well? I apologize if what I wrote was deemed offensive, it was out of frustration and a tinge of disappointment as I had seen the banner at the top when this new site was started, ” A place for civil debate. Not your typical idealogue blog” and I thought…finally…..
I could call him something else, but I won’t. He’ll retaliate. It’s all personal with him when he isn’t trying to make himself look like a hero.
Can we see numbers to support either view? I see emotional arguements but no figures saying crime is up or down x%.
I think it’d be great if we made more use of PWC’s chain gangs (we still have ’em but they don’t use leg irons I don’t believe).
I’d be ok if our Sheriff only gave out bologna sandwiches and water to reduce costs to the taxpayer.
Tom,
We do want to discuss the facts. The post was done factually by M-H. Starry has been asked to not use name calling. However, I haven’t seen you call out others when THEY name call, so do you only find it offfensive when it’s coming from one side?
This blog is nothing like the dark screen where everyone who doesn’t agree is a socialist marxist, un-american ugly broad.
Anyway, back to the propoganda that Corey continues to spew. Even on the dark side, Park’d clearly admits that the forclosure extravangaza in PWC was NOT just a coinicidence that concurred with the resolution.
Yea, but Starry Flights didn’t call ME an idiot. That’s the difference. I tend to personalize those things.
I am not here to be you or anyone else’s punching bag.
I would prefer that no one be called an idiot here. There are ways to point out one is an idiot without specifically calling names.
Actually, I wouldn’t praise Chief Deane for slight reduction in crime that I read about in that article. I don’t think the numbers are that significant. However, I would praise him over other things.
We make no secret that we feel Corey Stewart does not represent PWC well. Hopefully we have backed our opinions on this matter up with facts.
The horrible crimes had nothing to do with illegal immigration. Do you not find it disingenuous of Corey to attempt to make a correlation where no exists?
Marin, I left the links in the article–one from the Post and one from the actual crime statistics from PWC police. I can’t do any better than that. Be your own judge.
Its not emotional when you say these are not the facts and then provide the facts.
What Corey probably failed to mention was that many deported felons quickly return.
He also failed to mention that many illegal immigrants taken into ICE custody don’t actually get deported.
MH, thanks for correcting me. I didn’t see the links – I think my eyes are failing me in my elder years..
The numbers are interesting. Violent crime is up in PWC mostly because rape has increased by 103.6%. That tells me we need to send some people to hell via ol’ Sparky.
Crime rate per 100K residents is down from 1995. That’s pretty good considering the counties population ballooned. (I guess a math major could dive into the numbers and tell me how the numbers would decrease anyways because more families moving into an area would offset criminals already existing in an area but anyone that wants to go that deep into the numbers is free to do so)
The county is better off now than it was years ago. I don’t know to what extent you can claim it was in part to the illegal crackdown as the numbers shown in 15-17 of http://www.pwcgov.org/docLibrary/PDF/12155.pdf don’t show a home run. To me it’s akin to cracking down on a neighborhood or a type of crime (purse snatching, as an example).
I think on the level we’re really at the same place we started with. It hasn’t really given us a net benefit or loss.
So, I guess I’m neutral on this.
Personally? As a free market guy I appreciate that I can run to the 7-11 and grab me a guy that’ll fix my toilet or water my lawn. On the flip side to that if that same guy tries to break into someone’s house I want him locked up (like anyone else) and deported. I don’t mind immigration but it also means we can’t insist on a dress code of sorts to get into the nightclub that is America.
Do I support random inspections of people on a street corner? No. It violates the spirit of our Consitution. But, if someone is arrested for a real crime and there legal status is …not. Then tack on the charge let them serve time and then deport.
Thanks for the links MH. Very informative.
Whats the beef except to take on Corey at every turn. The evidence is in the PWC Police Reports themselves that show conclusively that the crime rate has declined over last year and over the last 15 years. Given our continuing population growth that is a major accomplishment! I cannot believe that all y’all are taking Corey to task over his TV bragging about our 1.9 decrease in crime this past year – which BTW is the first full year of illegal policy enforcement data.
What I cannot tell from a quick review is whether the Manassas or Manassas Park data is included in the arrest statistics. I don’t think so. The data is pretty specific to the PWC Police Department. and neither is mentioned in the report. Manassas has its own report that shows its violent numbers higher than the national average, as does Manassas Park, both of which report a decline in crime since the “policy.” Looking at the County’s overall democraphics, Latinos represent 19 percent of the County’s population and 6 percent of PWCPD crime data, but again, that may be understated by the exclusion of Manassas and Manassas Park. The real issue is the rise in Rape and Robbery in all jurisdictions. Any quesses where that is happening? Check out the increases in Manassas City and Manassas Park. More to the point, I don’t think you would get an argument that the “policy” has not had a positive affect from law enforcement. The service calls are not recorded, the domestic disturbances responses, investigations into child abuse and crimes without an arrest are more difficult to measure.
@marinm
Very fair, Marin.
The flaw in my rationale which PWC Taxpayer should easily exploit is the taxpayer burden for services provided to those illegals while in country.
The flaw for me is easily remedied – no benefits to anyone. But, I don’t think I’ll find many people that will go down that path with me so the flaw still exists… For those in country illegally there is the possibility of them consuming public resources as free riders.
Interesting that Elena states that the crime rate in PWC declined during the growth of the immigrant population. In my Loudoun town the crime rate spiked immensely during the growth of the immigrant population — which is precisely why I have been patrolling our streets for more than six years; which is why we have had a quantum increase in police patrols in our neck of the woods; which is one of the reasons why so many long-time residents sold out and ran for Ashburn, Cascades, and other newer communities; which is why most of Eastern Loudoun is now blanketed by new Neighborhood Watch organizations. All this changed the face of our town completely. Peace changed to fear — fear of crime and fear of deteriorating property values. Strange how two counties which are contiguous could have such different experiences.
Wolverine, did the crime rate for Loudoun County as a whole spike during those years or did it spike in a few neighborhoods? I’d bet that there were areas in PWC that saw increases in crime while the statistics for the county as a whole fell.
Despite the hoopla propagated by some writers and pols, the crime stats here were headed down – negating the need for the hysteria which fueled the resolution.
pwctax, we realize you are a big Republican fan and a big Corey fan. Can you accept that there are many people who feel he is opportunistic and using PWC as a proving ground of sorts…at best a spring board for other politicial amibitions.
Corey speaks any time he thinks he can get some publicity. Often he trips himself up when he does this. He attempted to take an overall crime rate that has decreased slightly and link it to illegal immigrants leaving the area.
1. the violent crime rate isn’t lower
2. there is no correlation between illegal immigrants and those committing the crimes.
In fact, just looking at the news over the past year or so, very few of the serious crimes have been committed by illegal immigrants.
Don’t people think it is somewhat disingenuous to try to affix a cause/effect relationship where none exists?
Censored — I would say “spiked in a few neighborhoods” in the beginning but later spread somewhat to other areas as the originally affected communities fought back. Loudoun east of Rte 28 and Leesburg were the original communities.
Crime in almost all of Loudoun had never been very high, in my opinion. That observation comes from being a homeowner here for over 30 years and from being involved career-wise in Federal investigative work. It was not all that long ago that Loudoun was largely a rural county. We did, however, have a period in which we were being hit by “mobile” criminal incidents, i.e. criminals coming in from other areas on a hit-and-run basis because the pickings appeared to be easier in laid back Loudoun. Nevertheless, during the first 25 years, I met a local deputy exactly once, when the brake lights on my personal vehicle failed. In the past six years, I have met more than I can shake a stick at, right up to the Sheriff himself. Moreover, Mrs. W was intensively involved in the big push to convince our politicians to build our new law enforcement substation in Eastern Loudoun.
For a long time, the Fairfax-Loudoun county line between Herndon and Sterling seemed to be some sort of informal demarcation with regard to the growth of the immigrant population. Herndon had them all. We had almost none. However, when the Town of Herndon started addressing seriously the illegal immigrant situation with regard to both quality of life and crime, the demarcation line fell swiftly; and the immigrant population flooded into Sterling Park, Sugarland, and other places in Eastern Loudoun. That is precisely when the crime, especially street crime, began to spike. It is also when the gangs began sinking roots here. Actually, I was told that the gangs began at this point to refer to their “turf” in Sterling and Herndon as “Sterndon.” This was also the beginning of a massive wave of unpunished zoning violations, largely because the county government was almost totally unequipped to pursue such violations. As a result of all these factors, people who had lived in this community almost since it was established in the 1960’s began to sell out and flee. This flight included not only the Anglos but also citizens and legal immigrants of almost every ethnic background.
A hard core of local residents decided to stay and fight back to save our community. They were angry at facing the choice of living in a deteriorating place or running like scared rabbits for high ground. They chose the former. After extensive and angry complaining from these people, the county finally began to respond in the way it should have back in the beginning of this. We, of course, had our share of accusations about “racism” and all of that. But I can assure you that this community had been a good racial mix for quite awhile before the wave of new immigrants hit us. The anger of these people was not because of race but because of crime and because the town was going into the tank right in front of their eyes. Nevertheless, there were those who continued to decry what they thought was an anti-Hispanic prejudice. It wasn’t. It was anti-crime prejudice and anti-zoning violation prejudice. But, let me be frank here. Not all the new immigrants were engaged in criminal activities — just enough of them to give the whole community a bad name. On the other hand, many, many of the new immigrants WERE involved in blatant violations of the zoning laws and thereby responsible for a stark decline in the quality of life in this town.
Mrs. W and I, as well as our children, have spent extensive time abroad, almost all of it in the Third World. We are not and have never been inclined to generalize about races or ethnic groups different from our own. That comes from living with and working with people of all colors. Our kids went to international schools with the same sort of mix. Color and race mean nothing to us. But we refuse to deny the truth that is right in front of our eyes. The whopping increase in crime and in the deterioration of our community’s quality of life came with the influx of new immigrants. But, even there, we will not generalize. We have come to know serious, good-intentioned new immigrants who are devoted to family life and to their religion. We have worked with them whenever we can to try to save our community. But, as an activist Neighborhood Watch which actually patrols the streets, we have also encountered a distressing level of new immigrants who care not a wit about following the law and the rules. I could fill this blog for weeks on end with anecdotes about our experiences in a patrol area which is now roughly 36% Hispanic immigrant, 57% non-Hispanic (Black and White); and 9% other immigrants. I am sorry to have to say this, but there is a large group among the new Hispanic immigrants who have badly damaged the reputation of their entire immigrant community. And, please don’t try to tell me this is prejudice. I have seen this night after night on the streets. I have had personal confrontations with that bad element on those streets.
And now the good news. We marshalled our forces — concerned citizens, law enforcement, and a number of our politicians. It has taken over six years, but there are signs that we are beating this back and restoring the town. Whereas we could once count on several reportable crimes almost evey night in our patrol area, over the past month and a half, we have had exactly one repeat one crime report. We are not sure yet how much to attribute to increased vigilance and stronger police work and how much to attribute to the slow economy and the departure of numbers of new immigrants, especially the younger ones without families, in search of better job opportunities elsewhere. The jury is still out. And we are still out there. However, in so far as it goes with the new immigrants, it looks like we got to keep most of the ones who are not part of the criminal element. So, we count that to the good of all. Now, Mrs. W wants to push the Dream Act for those immigrant kids who need it.
There is one other problem. Sometimes this whole thing is like a balloon. We push the criminal and gang elements out and they wind up elsewhere. Montgomery County in Maryland is having to deal with that in spades. Ashburn in mid-Loudoun has seen some increasing problems. And not long ago, the small town of Round Hill way out in Western Loudoun was hit about ten times on the same night by smash-and-grab men breaking into vehicles. I bet they haven’t seen that much action since Union troops burned almost everything in the Loudoun Valley in an effort to deny Mosby’s Partisan Rangers their forage and sustenance.
That in a nutshell is our experience in our corner of Loudoun. If that southern border is not brought under control, I can imagine that we are going to have to go at this thing almost interminably, especially if the economy and the job picture improve, because we are going to face additional waves of new illegal immigrants. We cuss out the politicians in Washington almost every day on this issue.
Wolverine, your experience echoes what older neighborhoods in Prince William and Fairfax counties have experienced. Neighborhoods with reasonably priced housing were probably more greatly impacted by sub-prime mortgages and people ill equiped to maintain their housing.
In Prince William County, I think zoning/neighborhood services fell down on the job or were grossly underfunded during the period when many violations first occurred in large numbers. In the past (15-20 years ago) zoning was very effective from my point of view. (I live in an older neighborhood unlike any other in PWC and have had several occasions to call both the zoning office and the police – with much success.) In more recent years I found it harder to get problems addressed and even now, effective enforcement seems to depend on which inspector is assigned the case.
It really takes community involvement to address these problems. Our immigration resolution was totally ineffective for my neighborhood because the scofflaws were all white and citizens. IMO more attention should have been paid to zoning and police presence and less to immigration status – although immigration played a star role in the thread’s subject’s campaign.
A great deal of the housing boom brought men following the housing industry. Any time you have a bunch of young men living away from home with no mothers, fathers, grandmothers, grandfathers watching over them and setting a standard….well..boys will be boys.
Even military towns near bases have a lot of michief. The MPs are kept busy. I grew up in a university town back in the days when the school was mostly male. Lots of mischief there also. The campus police worked overtime. I have read accounts of times in areas like Norfolk and Newport News during WWII. Amazing. Lots of young men pouring in to the cities. Lots of mischief there also.
Is this much different?
Not “boys will be boys” here, Moon. Crime — the kind of thing that puts you in criminal court.
And those military towns became involved with a lot of crime. So did my hometown when the students all came back.
I just saw a segment on channel 5 news about some Georgetown students who were at war with an older man. They partied and raised hell all the time and kept this man from sleeping. There was property destruction and student trash all over the place.
I am not trying to minimize the impact of immigration. Our neighborhoods here in Prince William County certainly were impacted because of overcrowding. I don’t know about you, but I like knowing who is living next door to me. You know, name/face association. However, I will stand by the fact that I don’t know who is illegal and who is not unless they tell me. I also know that rental property is more problematic in general than owner on site property.
Let’s face it. When people are here in town on a temporary basis, there just isn’t the investment in the community. You become a beach town without the beach. And when the tourists leave, they often don’t clean up. It sounds to me like more Wolverines and neighborhood services are needed. A Wolverine does more to teach newcomers about community standards than anything else. A wolverine can also work with county people. They listen to him and know he isn’t just a crank.
I also live in a neighborhood that was impacted, although far less than many others. I am not without empathy over all of this. I am one of those people who sees both sides.