67 Thoughts to “Open Thread 5/13/2010”

  1. Wolverine

    Looks to me like being a Congressional incumbent this year is becoming a risky occupation. Beyond all the sudden retirements, we have Bennett (R-Utah) going down after three terms in the Senate and yesterday Mollohan in West Virginia went down in a Democratic primary 56% to 44% after 14 terms in the House. The pendulum she is aswinging.

  2. And I am not so sure it is a good thing, Wolverine. All I can think of is, beware of unintended consequences.

  3. Wolverine

    Another controversy possibly on the horizon. In a 13 May editorial, the Wall Street Journal expressed surprise that the USG could come up with so many details on Faisal Shahzad’s known or alleged connections to the Taliban in such a short time after his capture and arrest. Three days after the Times Square incident, Sen. Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ) asked AG Eric Holder if we were “looking at this fellow prior to the attempted bombing.” Holder reportedly declined to answer that question.

    A Washington Times editiorial on 10 May offered that Shahzad had been on the Department of Homeland Security’s Travel Enforcement Compliance List as late as 2008 and that he had also been under the scrutiny of the Joint Terrorism Task Force. The implication is that someone may have caused the name to be scrubbed as a person of interest.

    I cannot find any clarification of this yet, but look for it to come up in future hearings. If it proves to be accurate, some heads may roll given how close we came to a bad ending in Times Square.

  4. Starryflights

    Well, fortunately, the Obama Justice Dept apprehended the fellow rather swiftly, preventing him from leaving the country. Kudos to the Administration for ensuring the safety and security of the American people.

  5. Starryflights

    Los Angeles to boycott Arizona over immigration law

    By Dan Whitcomb Dan Whitcomb – Wed May 12, 9:41 pm ET
    LOS ANGELES (Reuters) – Los Angeles officials on Wednesday approved a ban on future business with Arizona in protest against its crackdown on illegal immigrants, becoming the largest U.S. city to impose such an economic boycott.

    City Council members who voted 13-1 in favor of the punitive measure said it could affect about $8 million in contracts with Arizona, but Los Angeles must first decide which of those agreements it can break without triggering lawsuits.

    “I cannot go to Arizona today without a passport,” Councilman Ed Reyes said before the vote. “If I come across an officer who’s had a bad day and feels the picture on my ID is not me, I could be summarily deported — no questions asked. That is not American.”

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100513/ts_nm/us_usa_immigration;_ylt=AjFimJskICqI_fdHpsaTpptH2ocA;_ylu=X3oDMTM3YWJtczA3BGFzc2V0A25tLzIwMTAwNTEzL3VzX3VzYV9pbW1pZ3JhdGlvbgRjY29kZQNtb3N0cG9wdWxhcgRjcG9zAzUEcG9zAzUEc2VjA3luX3RvcF9zdG9yaWVzBHNsawNsb3NhbmdlbGVzdG8-

    Good for Los Angeles. There’s definitely something wrong with a law that allows US citizens to be deported simply for not carrying a drivers license on their person.

  6. Pat.Herve

    why do elected officials (and talking heads) make such obvious false statements?? If I come across an officer who’s had a bad day and feels the picture on my ID is not me, I could be summarily deported — no questions asked. That is not American. Is a false statement, and because it comes from an elected official (or a talking head), everyone carries the statement as if it were fact. Does he think the officer is going to put him in the car, and drive him across the border? Just annoying how ignorant some people are, and how dumb they think we all are.

  7. Starryflights

    Wolverine :Looks to me like being a Congressional incumbent this year is becoming a risky occupation. Beyond all the sudden retirements, we have Bennett (R-Utah) going down after three terms in the Senate.

    I think that’s great! I hope Hatch, also from Utah, goes down too! So much for the “Referendum on Obama”, these are Republicans!

    And if we lose the Congress, so what, at least we got health care!

  8. The results of CQ Press’s annual State Crime Rankings are in…

    How did the other states fare? Join us as we reveal which 15 states were ranked as the most dangerous for 2010.

    Did your state make the list?
    Crime Rate Rankings (out of 50 states)
    (1 = Worst, 50 = Best)

    No. 1: NEVADA
    Assault: 8
    Burglary: 12
    Murder: 13
    Motor Vehicle Theft: 1
    Rape: 8
    Robbery: 1

    No. 2: NEW MEXICO
    Assault: 5
    Burglary: 3
    Murder: 6
    Motor Vehicle Theft: 7
    Rape: 2
    Robbery: 23

    No. 3: LOUISIANA
    Assault: 4
    Burglary: 9
    Murder: 1
    Motor Vehicle Theft: 14
    Rape: 33
    Robbery: 18

    No. 4: SOUTH CAROLINA
    Assault: 1
    Burglary: 8
    Murder: 7
    Motor Vehicle Theft: 9
    Rape: 13
    Robbery: 16

    No. 5: TENNESSEE
    Assault: 2
    Burglary: 5
    Murder: 8
    Motor Vehicle Theft: 15
    Rape: 19
    Robbery: 8

    No. 6: FLORIDA
    Assault: 6
    Burglary: 7
    Murder: 12
    Motor Vehicle Theft: 13
    Rape: 23
    Robbery: 4

    No. 7: DELAWARE
    Assault: 7
    Burglary: 18
    Murder: 10
    Motor Vehicle Theft: 19
    Rape: 9
    Robbery: 3

    No. 8: MARYLAND
    Assault: 10
    Burglary: 23
    Murder: 2
    Motor Vehicle Theft: 4
    Rape: 45
    Robbery: 2

    No. 9: ARIZONA
    Assault: 21
    Burglary: 15
    Murder: 13
    Motor Vehicle Theft: 2
    Rape: 39
    Robbery: 15

    No. 10: ARKANSAS
    Assault: 11
    Burglary: 2
    Murder: 18
    Motor Vehicle Theft: 32
    Rape: 4
    Robbery: 28

    No. 11: ALABAMA
    Assault: 22
    Burglary: 4
    Murder: 5
    Motor Vehicle Theft: 21
    Rape: 16
    Robbery: 11

    No. 12: GEORGIA
    Assault: 20
    Burglary: 6
    Murder: 8
    Motor Vehicle Theft: 6
    Rape: 42
    Robbery: 7

    No. 13: OKLAHOMA
    Assault: 9
    Burglary: 10
    Murder: 16
    Motor Vehicle Theft: 18
    Rape: 10
    Robbery: 26

    No. 14: ALASKA
    Assault: 3
    Burglary: 39
    Murder: 28
    Motor Vehicle Theft: 29
    Rape: 1
    Robbery: 30

    No. 15: CALIFORNIA
    Assault: 18
    Burglary: 25
    Murder: 16
    Motor Vehicle Theft: 3
    Rape: 41
    Robbery: 5

    http://www.walletpop.com/blog/2010/04/05/most-dangerous-states-crime-rankings-for-2010/

  9. Orrin Hatch is far too conservative for me but he is a decent person who has dedicated much of his life to serving his country in the Senate. I would miss him.

  10. Elena

    Moon-howler :@Pat.Herve Hyperbole?

    good one M-H! One of my new favorite words, Hyperbole, both sides do it. I think the reality though is that people who look Latino are afraid of being profiled and I don’t blame them. A recent poll suggested that 64% of Americans approve of the law but also acknowledge that the expect profiling to happen…DUH! I guess those 64% don’t look Latino!

  11. Elena

    “Nearly two-thirds of Americans — 64 percent — approved of the law in an NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll released Wednesday. The measure commanded a strong majority even though roughly the same percentage of respondents said they expected it to lead to discrimination against legal Latino immigrants. “

  12. Elena, who answered the poll questions?

  13. marinm

    I look latino and I am OK with the law. The law just has to be crafted and administered fairly and equally.

    I do find it amusing that ‘cities’ are boycotting AZ. Would that not be a violation of the Commerce Clause?

  14. Rick Bentley

    A. Those who support the law should promote business and tourism in Arizona.

    B. Arizona will not be the last state to do this. This issue is going to heat up. And already, 64% of people like what’s happening.

    Virginia will have such a law within 2 years I’ll bet.

  15. I be few immigrants answered that poll. It would be interesting to see THOSE stats.

  16. Rick Bentley

    http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/morning-fix/1pa-senate-2-with-just.html?hpid=topnews

    On the heels of the Gallup data came a national poll from NBC and the Wall Street Journal that suggests that a near-majority of Americans strongly support the Arizona immigration law.

    Forty-six percent offered strong support for the measure while 24 percent were strongly opposed — a major passion disparity that will surely be noticed by strategists in both parties trying to game out how the immigration issue will affect turnout this fall.

  17. Rick Bentley

    I’m sure there is a very evident race-based split in Arizona between Latinos and non-Latinos on this issue. It’s kind of sad that our political system and our politicians have let things get to that level. Two different Americas, two perceptions of what the ruiles are, to perceptions of how things are supposed to work. Two Americas, in many ways.

    But there you have it.

  18. @Rick Bentley
    Do you think it’s just Latinos, Rick? Did Latinos even participate in the poll? I’m just asking. Contrary to popular belief, numbers CAN lie.

  19. Starryflights

    The Consitution of the United States is not a popularity contest. At one point, a majority of Americans supported segregation and slavery. That does not make it constitutional or moral.

  20. Rick Bentley

    I think that among non-Latinos, you get 70-80% support for the Arizona law generally and over 80% support within Arizona.

    Depending on how poll questions are phrased, of course.

    McCain is fighting for his life politically – he is in a battle for the Republican nomination this year. If Hayworth beats him, this issue goes thermonuclear.

    Here’s hoping! Hoping McCain can go hang out with Bob Bennett and maybe Lindsay Graham at the old age home, reminiscing about how great America could be if they had fooled us into accepting their Amnesty plan. “Commit two identity thefts, become eligible for a third one free!”

  21. e

    It’s time for the truth — straight up, whether you like it or not. Bill O’Reilly and Glenn Beck are teaming up and going on tour. Your town may never be the same.
    Norfolk, VA
    Friday, May 21, 8 PM
    Ted Constant Convocation Center
    (888) 3-COXTIX

  22. Starryflights

    And I’m looking forward to a Supreme Court challenge against the AZ law.

  23. Starryflights

    The freak show’s coming to town!

  24. Poor Richard

    “Advocates of a more liberal policy toward illegal immigrants need to take
    seriously the discontent that the anti-immigration movement has tapped
    into. Immigration has been a blessing to the United States, but it is not
    an unmixed blessing, and the cost of immigration policies are borne more
    heavily by some parts of our society than others. rather than dismiss all
    immigration critics as xenophobes, supporters of immigrant rights need to
    deal with the legitimate gripes of their opponets.

    The most basic is that imnigrants cost local goverments a massive amount of
    money. ‘ It is a potent political issue locally, and there is nothing local
    governments can do.’ says Cecilia Munoz, vice president for policy at the
    National Council of La Raza. A National Academy of Sciences study found that
    the average immigrant puts a net lifetime fiscal cost of $25,000 on local
    and state govenments. ‘Estimates are that states and localities are forced
    to pay tens of billions of dollars in health and education cost for noncitizens’,
    says Sen. Clinton (D-NY).”

    E.J. Dionne Jr.
    (WaPo op/ed – 5-26-2006)

    Its not racial prejudice. It is not anti – anyone. For many of us it is cold, hard
    economics. Poor, uneducated, unskilled people arriving in huge numbers
    will “swamp the boat” for everyone.

  25. Formerly Anonymous

    Starryflights :
    The Consitution of the United States is not a popularity contest. At one point, a majority of Americans supported segregation and slavery. That does not make it constitutional or moral.

    While I’m sure everyone can agree that slavery was immoral, it is also very clear that it was constitutional until the 13th Amendment was ratified. It was the elephant in the room during the Constitutional Convention and to claim that slavery wasn’t constitutional is some serious whitewashing of history.

    As for the constitutionality of the Arizona law, I would be interested in hearing what the case against it would be based on. I really haven’t heard much other than “It’s unconstitutional!” About all I can see would be an equal protection claim based on disparate impact. I’m certainly not a lawyer so I’m not able to judge what standard Arizona would have to demonstrate to overcome that (strict scrutiny, reasonable, etc.) Anybody care to share an opinion? Or is there a more compelling argument against the Arizona law. (Maybe an anti-10th Amendment argument?)

    (And just to be clear, I’m not saying I am for or against the Arizona law. I’m just interested in hearing the ConLaw argument against it.)

  26. I would just like to say, the glass is half full.

    What it’s full of, I’m not sayin’.

  27. @Poor Richard
    I am sure that is quite true, PR. However, that doesn’t give anyone the right to demonize immigrants, to try to chase them out of localities or treat them poorly. Additionally, we have no idea how many illegal immigrants are indeed paying their taxes and not collecting their refunds.

  28. marinm

    To PR’s point Pinko regardless of ability to pay or not pay taxes they’re in violation of federal law being here in the first place. It’s not about demonizing immigrants as much as it is enforcing current laws. If Congress had intended that the borders would be open and that anyone could get in and stay they could’ve easily have abolished ICE and portions of CBP. But, laws on the book and the existance of those departments goes against the ideal that it’s OK for an illegal to be present in the US sans permission.

    If federal law is found to trump AZ’s ability to use current federal law or ICE is reluctant to deport those individuals found to not be legally present — than it stands to reason that AZ can simply refuse to grant state (AZ) citizenship and expel them from the state of Arizona and deposit them onto the border of CA or any other state that wishes to grant sancuatary.

    Because as we all know there is national AND state citizenship in the United States.

    I think anyway you roll the dice (the economy) is a game changer in terms of this debate. When unemployment was 1/2 of what it was you had less people that were inclined to even care about this issue. As those without jobs have doubled it’s front stage.

  29. marinm

    For full disclosure my mother was illegal and my father had legal papers upon entry. Both are fully documented now and still working towards citizenship. However, I told my dad if he wants to vote for Obama he’s on his own. 😉

  30. I wonder what would happen if Arizona boycotted Los Angeles. LA does get about 10% of its electricity from Arizona. Does California really want to go down that road……..

  31. Starryflights

    @Formerly Anonymous

    See the 4th and 5th amendments regarding unreasonable searches and seizures and due process of law, respectively.

  32. Poor Richard

    Pinko, The non-filing of income tax returns could benefit the Federal
    government and perhaps some states, but doesn’t apply to local
    jurisdictions that, for example provide the bulk of funding for
    the education of non-citizens.

    I agree no group should be demonized, but follow the money –
    Economics 101.

  33. Starryflights

    Speaking of which…

    US files first defense of health care law in court
    By RICARDO ALONSO-ZALDIVAR (AP) – 21 hours ago

    WASHINGTON — Critics who allege that Congress overstepped the U.S. Constitution by requiring Americans to carry health insurance are “flatly wrong,” the Obama administration said Wednesday in its first court defense of the landmark health care law.

    “Congress determined that the health care system in the United States is in crisis, spawning public expense and private tragedy,” said the government’s brief. “After decades of failed attempts, Congress enacted comprehensive health care reform to deal with this overwhelming national problem. The minimum coverage provision is vital to that comprehensive scheme. Enjoining it would thwart this reform and re-ignite the crisis that the elected branches of government acted to forestall.”

    Government lawyers argued that a decision to opt out of health insurance is not merely a matter of personal choice. It has consequences for everybody else. Uninsured people will get sick, or have accidents, and someone must pay for their care if they can’t afford it.

    “Individual decisions to forgo insurance coverage, in the aggregate, substantially affect interstate commerce by shifting costs to health care providers and the public,” the Justice Department said.

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gBZEHpc6Pi64FEn9T4wWJefbEyZgD9FLGRI00

  34. marinm

    Starry, do you believe Terry stops are unconstitutional?

  35. Sooooo…….how about dem Cubs?……

    New Topic! Fund Raiser for Fisher House.

    From WRVA 1140 radio in Richmond:

    WRVA’s home improvement guru needs your help! Richard McKann is inviting local businesses and you to help provide the material and manpower to build a patio for the families that stay at the McGuire Veterans Hospital Richmond Fisher House. Below is a list of the material we’re looking for. You can donate any of these items, money to purchase the items or just volunteer to help Richard build this project. Contact him by email at: [email protected] or click HERE. Or call him at 347-1152.

    Here are the materials Richard needs to build his project.

    1. Edging for pavers.
    2. 12 inch nails to secure edging.
    3. Polymeric for installation of pavers.
    4. Crush and run for base of patio.
    5. Concrete sand for pavers to sit on.
    6. Any and all supplies for get power to planned water feature.
    7. Pond less water feature kit.
    8. Boulders for water feature.
    9. Pea gravel.
    10. Stone veneer for sitting walls.
    11. Natural stone caps for sitting walls.
    12. Concrete block for sitting walls.
    13. Mortar to build walls.
    14. Topsoil to grade location.
    15. Sod for all disturbed areas.

    And my blog partner Concrete Bob is offering a deal on his BBQ sauce. Every $20 of a $25 Quart of his BBQ sauce goes to the project.

    http://unitedconservatives.blogspot.com/2010/05/call-to-action.html

    For the Warriors

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTs6a0ORdQU&feature=player_embedded

  36. Just realized that the WRVA part did not have a link.

    http://www.wrva.com/pages/fisherhouse.html

  37. Just to let you know Eric Byler will be my guest on my show Saturday evening. He is planning on being live in studio here in Phoenix. Show starts at 7pm eastern time.

  38. @Herb Sarge Phelps
    Thanks for the heads up! Will it be recorded?

  39. Wolverine

    A word of advice with regard to #4 , Starryflights: No matter how well you think you may be doing at your task, always stay alert for the gaps in your defenses. If you don’t, those gaps will surely result some day in you paying a very large and unexpected price for your negligence. Once was up against a terrorist gang setting off bombs in public buildings. Undertook a close re-examination of every possible gap in our defenses. Found the one that was critical. End of bombing campaign. Lots of long jail time for lots of people. Lesson learned: Don’t be smug about your past successes. Look hard for your current weaknesses.

  40. Emma

    Plan for mosque near World Trade Center site moves ahead
    BY Joe Jackson and Bill Hutchinson
    DAILY NEWS WRITERS

    A proposal to build a mosque steps from Ground Zero received the support of a downtown committee despite some loved ones of 9/11 victims finding it offensive.

    The 13-story mosque and Islamic cultural center was unanimously endorsed by the 12-member Community Board 1’s financial district committee.

    The $100 million project, called the Cordoba House, is proposed for the old Burlington Coat Factory building at Park Place and Broadway, just two blocks from the World Trade Center site.

    “I think it will be a wonderful asset to the community,” said committee Chairman Ro Sheffe.

    Imam Feisel Abdul Rauf, who helped found the Cordoba Initiative following the 9/11 attacks, said the project is intended to foster better relations between the West and Muslims.

    He said the glass-and-steel building would include a 500-seat performing arts venue, a swimming pool and a basketball court. “There’s nothing like it,” said Rauf, adding that facilities will be open to all New Yorkers.

    Daisy Khan, executive director of the American Society for Muslim Advancement and Cordoba Initiative board member, said the project has received little opposition.

    “Whatever concerns anybody has, we have to make sure to educate them that we are an asset to the community,” Khan said.

    Khan said her group hopes construction on the project will begin by the 10th anniversary of the 9/11 attacks.

    Once built, 1,000 to 2,000 Muslims are expected to pray at the mosque every Friday, she said.

    No one at last night’s meeting protested the project. But some 9/11 families said they found the proposal offensive because the terrorists who launched the attacks were Muslim.

    “I realize it’s not all of them, but I don’t want to have to go down to a memorial where my son died on 9/11 and look at a mosque,” said retired FDNY Deputy Chief Jim Riches – whose son Jim, a firefighter, was killed on 9/11.

    “If you ask me, it’s a religion of hate,” said Riches, who did not attend last night’s meeting.

    Rosemary Cain of Massapequa, L.I., whose son, Firefighter George Cain, 35, was killed in the 2001 attacks, called the project a “slap in the face.”

    “I think it’s despicable. That’s sacred ground,” said Cain, who also did not attend the meeting.

    “How could anybody give them permission to build a mosque there? It tarnishes the area.”

    http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/05/06/2010-05-06_plan_for_mosque_near_world_trade_center_site_moves_ahead.html#ixzz0nqpKGVP6

  41. Thanks, Sarge.

    Emma, I am not sure what I think about the article you posted. I will need to digest it.

  42. The interview with Eric will be put up on the podcast Sunday. He is planning to be live in studio Saturday. I will try if he agrees, to have him take callers.

  43. Wolverine

    Wow. If you are driving up to New York City or renting a vehicle up there, do not park it on the street with anything that looks suspicious in the interior. That poor guy who parked on Union Square to attend a concert and left some gas cans in the back seat because his job is cutting lawns. He came out to find Union Square roped off with police tape, the buildings all around evacuated, and his car with the windows blown out on both sides so the police robot and the bomb squad could get a better look at what was inside. As Amtrak would say it: “Take the train.” Or maybe the shuttle flight. And then use the subway or cabs.

  44. Starryflights

    Austin cuts off business and travel ties with Arizona
    By SARAH COPPOLA
    AUSTIN AMERICAN-STATESMAN
    May 14, 2010, 12:09AM

    AUSTIN — The Austin City Council decided on Thursday to end business and travel ties with the state of Arizona to protest a new state law that will allow law enforcement officers there to detain people they suspect are in the country illegally.

    http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7004482.html

    I tell y’a, all these economic boycotts are bound to take a pretty heavy toll on Arizona!

  45. That’s funny.

    I think that Texas, after seeing how the Arizona law works out, will probably be the next state to enact similar laws.

  46. @Wolverine
    OMG!!!

    What a society of fear we have to live in.

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