The AFL-CIO and one of its civil rights groups has written to DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano demanding that all agreements between Arizona law enforcement and DHS cease. AFL-CIO is the largest labor union in the United States. According to the Huffington Post:
On Friday, the union conglomerate AFL-CIO and the civil rights coalition, The Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights, became the latest institutions to urge for the isolation or boycott of Arizona when they requested that Homeland Security terminate its training of local law enforcement officials in the state.
“We write to express our deep concern with the Department of Homeland Security’s continued cooperation with state and local law enforcement in Arizona pursuant to Section 287(g) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (‘the 287(g) program’) in the aftermath of Arizona’s passage of Senate Bill 1070, and we ask that you immediately rescind all 287(g) program agreements in Arizona,” the letter reads.
The message continues:
“We are grateful that President Obama has spoken out to correctly call the Arizona law ‘misguided.’ However, more than words are required from the federal government at this time. As we explain below, the enforcement of Arizona’s law fundamentally depends on the use of federal government resources for the implementation of its racial profiling regime. Unless DHS terminates all 287(g) program agreements in Arizona, the federal government will be complicit in the racial profiling that lies at the heart of the Arizona law. Such a result would place the DHS at odds with this Administration’s stated views on SBI070, and at odds with basic American values of tolerance and non-discrimination.”
The letter is by far the most serious effort to date to make Arizona’s new immigration law untenable for the state. Other groups have urged economic and travel boycotts as a way to target the state government’s tourism revenues. Should DHS adopt the AFL-CIO’s suggestion (and it’s a big question whether the Department will) it would deny the state the type of law enforcement expertise that the immigration law was designed to beef up in the first place.
The legislation passed by Arizona state government would make the failure to carry immigration documents a crime. It would also give law enforcement officials fairly broad powers to detain those suspected of being in the country illegally.
“A review of DHS’s 287(g) program agreements in Arizona makes clear that once SB1070 becomes effective, DHS will be complicit in the enforcement of Arizona’s misguided law,” reads the letter, signed by AFL-CIO President Richard Trumka and Wade Henderson, President and CEO of The Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights. “We urgently request that you exercise your authority to immediately rescind all 287(g) program agreements in Arizona and, in this manner, avoid making the federal government complicit in the enforcement of Arizona’s misguided law.”
So what, you might say. PWC and City of Manassas both participate in the 287(g) program. What impact will the dust up in Arizona have on our MOU with Homeland Security?
Meanwhile things show no signs of calming down in Arizona. 9500Liberty is now being shown in Tucson per request of the community. Sarah Palin is out there saying ‘We are all Arizonans now.’ Is that sort of like being a Hokie for the day?
Quoting Huffington Post again:
Jan Brewer and Palin blamed President Barack Obama for the state law, saying the measure is Arizona’s attempt to enforce immigration laws because the federal government won’t do it.
“It’s time for Americans across this great country to stand up and say, ‘We’re all Arizonans now,'” Palin said. “And in clear unison we say, ‘Mr. President: Do your job. Secure our border.'”
The former Alaska governor appeared with Brewer at a brief news conference on Saturday. The event launched a website that Brewer said was an effort to educate America about border security and discourage an economic boycott of the state.
I hate being simple minded but did Mexicans just start coming across the border since President Obama took office? I could have sworn this was an issue before then. Silly me.
To read the full SB1070 click the blue.
Yes, indeed, Moon, you are right. We have had more than two decades of failure by the Federal government to do what it is supposed to do: secure our borders fully and efficiently. Securing the border was supposed to be a quid pro quo for the Reagan amnesty way back it the 1980’s. It never happened. What is even more unforgiveable is that this failure continued even after the 9/11 wakeup call re a very dangerous terrorist threat. In my opinion, neither political party and no president during this entire period should escape blame for this.
Even now, when the people of Arizona have taken drastic measures in the face of an inadequate Federal performance, the focus is on their measures rather than on the national security lapse which brought these measures into being. There is talk of punishing the people of the whole state, treating our fellow Americans as if they were some kind of evil to be run to ground. Quite frankly, I am personally getting sick to death of this. I spent my entire adult life in various activities designed to defend this country and its people; and now I can hardly stand to listen to the discordant, politicized noise coming out of far too many quarters. In my opinion, we all ought to stand and point our fingers as one at Washington and say: “Fix that border now; and then we will discuss how to handle the issue of the millions of illegal immigrants already among us.” The AFL-CIO is calling for the isolation and boycott of our fellow Americans in Ariziona? How low can that organization get? To Hell with those fools in the AFL-CIO. Fix the problem!!!
Wolverine, I have very mixed emotions here. I see the AZ law being the same thing we had here. That ‘probable cause’ is tricky business. How does one determine probably cause for being an ‘alien’ who has entered illegally? Riding a bicycle? “Looking Hispanic?” not speaking English well? I don’t know.
As for the border,…how on earth do we completely secure a border the size of ours? East Germany couldn’t do it and they positioned soldiers with machine guns. I have no problem with drones, fences and military on the border. In fact, with the drug violence it sounds like a darn good idea, although those commiting that kind of violence usually aren’t border runners.
It seems to me that AZ’s biggest problems involve those committing crimes. I have no problem with locking them up and throwing away the key. i don’t see where their probably cause law is going to do jack other than harrass people.
AZ also will have no more control over what the feds do than they do now. Only a federal judge can order a deportation. It seems to me that the entire sb1070 was a political move that can be used to harrass people but not take csre of the real problem. We shall see.
I disagree, Moon. That law was not a political move to harass people. It was, in my opinion, an angry, frustrated cry for help to a federal government which has let people down. That frustration is absolutely evident from the fact that Sheriff Dupnik, one of those who expressed a dislike for the new law, felt it necessary to set up his own border crime unit because the Feds were not doing the job well enough. Moreover, should not 316 kidnappings of illegal immigrants in Phoenix alone in 2009 set off some alarm bells in all this? Arizona is definitely, in my view, not to be compared to PWC.
We may not be able to make that border a solid, totally unyielding wall, but we can try our darndest to achieve the best possible results. Right now we have a shuttle craft on the way to an International Space Station. We are communicating almost instantly on an internet that did not even exist when I was a college student. If we can do things like that, we can certainly create a strong and effective border, no matter how large the task. Imagine if FDR had said in 1941: “War against Germany in Europe and war against Japan in the Pacific? I just don’t see how we can possibly accomplish such a huge task.”
BTW, that “wall” was not just in Berlin. I once stood on the Austrian shore of the Neuseidler Lake looking south toward Communist Hungary. As I remember it, I could see the barbed wire and the gray watch towers stretching all the way across the lake. It was surreal. No, that frontier was not impenetrable, but it was certainly serious business. I don’t particularly like the idea of building “walls”; but, when the other side openly disrespects your borders, you cannot just stand by and mouth platitudes about peace and understanding. In my book and in my experience, the only thing which can create successful comity is mutual respect.
Let me put it quite bluntly here. I want that border fixed first. If we don’t do that, then you are not going to find me and a lot of others to be very warm supporters of the Dream Act or any other comprehensive immigration measure which still leaves the flow of illegal immigrants unchecked. You cannot, in my opinion, solve the internal problem when you are constantly being threatened with further waves of the same problem. This is no longer the America of the 1880’s and 1890’s. Our economy, our fiscal situation, our jobs, and a whole lot of other things have put some limits on how much we can absorb without imploding.
Rats! My comment got lost.
I believe sb1070 is a political move to capture votes. I agree people are frustrated. However the law isn’t going to address the frustration. How do you tell someone who is has entered the country illegally? What would probably cause even entail?
Furthermore, some 40-50% of those in the US illegally are those who have overstayed their visas. How do they fit in to the mix? They didnt enter illegally. They aren’t part of the flow. They are the part of the didn’t go home crowd.
I have no problem with putting the military on the border, as long as it isn’t weaponless people dressed in soldier uniforms. That does nothing.
The border between the US and Mexico has always been a problem. And it sure didn’t start under this prez. Our immigration policy with Mexico seems to have gone back and forth, depending on what our work needs were.
I have spent enough time in AZ to know that enforcement of this law will not be as seamless as the politicians would have us believe.
Our local resolution was to capture votes. I very little difference with the sb1070. Some of the same national organizations are involved in the AZ. We were just the lab rats.
AZ might end up spinning wheels. Unless they get federal cooperation, sheriff Joe is going to get awfully busy. They will spend all their money on lawsuits.
It sounds to me like they ought to be lobbying for immigration reform rather than trying to mend a system over which they will ultimately have zero control.
I agree to have a secure border and a border fence.
But, would in not be easier to remove the reason why they come here is the first place? The illegal immigrant comes here, and WE put him to work. We pay him to come. Yet, we as a nation do not want a Work card, or other identity system where your right to work can be verified – even E-Verify just checks your name and ssno – there is no mechanism to check your identity that you are who you say you are. Then there are the cash paying contractors – how do they come up with so much cash every week in order to pay their workers – answer – they are laundering the money they are getting, in order to get the cash payments. All the while, we employ them, and look the other way.
How many landscapers are out there with illegal labor? Restaurants?
Fix that problem, and the influx of illegal immigrants will slow down. Another thing, get the youth to somehow come to terms that it is ok to do a little work – we are raising a generation of youth who will not do anything if they do not feel like doing it at that moment. They largely do not work, and are lazy. Yes, my parents said the same thing, but the difference is that my parents did not buy, insure, and put gas in a car for me, or give me spending money, and I see that all around.
Palin’s hopping on a strong issue here.
And Obama, who is disappointing me daily, is on the wrong side of it.
And I anticipate continued change in the politics of this.
And I do foresee a day when the Governors of Texas and Virginia have to suck on it and sign similar bills to Arizona’s, despite their current efforts to preclude consideration of it.
The issue is going to stay in the news, and the lightbulb go off in Americans’ heads that they can have a voice in this.
“I want that border fixed first.”
They just refuse to do it. They swear allegiance to this country and to our laws, but choose not uphold them. There’s going to be a reckoning and a backlash at the end of this matter.
Who cares what Sara Palin says anyway, she is the queen of soundbites but completely lacking in substance. Did everyone read that Chief of Police from Pheonix? He says he HAS the tools to deal with crime and what SB1070 does is distract his police officers from fighting the dangerous criminals.
statement by Chief Harris:
HARRIS: Proponents of this legislation have repeatedly said that the new law provides a tool for local law enforcement. But I don’t really believe that that’s true or accurate.
We have the tools that we need to enforce laws in this state to reduce property crime and to reduce violent crime, to go after criminals that are responsible for human smuggling, to go after criminals that are responsible for those home invasions, kidnappings, robberies, murders. We have those tools.
I have ten ICE agents embedded in the violent crimes bureau. We have a policy that allows officers to contact ICE when they need to access their databanks to further criminal investigation. I’m not sure what the tool is that this new law is providing to local law enforcement.
What I believe it is, is it provides a tool to divert our officers from investigating property crimes and violent crimes and divert their — these resources, our personnel to enforcing civil portions of federal immigration law. In other words, it takes officers away from doing what our main core mission of local law enforcement is, and that’s to make our communities safe and enforce our criminal codes in that effort.
But she has found a good horse to ride. It’s a real issue. More real than the phony issues Obama used to get elected (the magic health care fix that doesn’t exist, and closing Guantanemo Bay, and getting us out of Iraq, and so on and so forth – ill-conceived shilling).
So I hope it works well for her and keeps this issue in the forefront. It’ll be a winner for her and a loser for Obama, McDonnell, etc.
Because beyond the soundbytes, and the statements from lazy police chiefs who want to give immunity for identity theft if it makes their jobs easier, we the people believe by a 60%+ margin that illegal immigration should be fought rather than encouraged.
What a great move by the AFL-CIO!! How can Obama not move to support this initiative.
Harris is reprehensible. He presides over a dangerous landscape and has no interest in making it safer. There’s no common-sense reason for a police chief to want illegal immigrants to put roots down in their community. He’s inflicting his pesonal ideology and/or the will of the business community into the matter and pretending it’s about public safety.
It’s a no-brainer. And it’ll eventually be decided at the ballot box.
“What a great move by the AFL-CIO!! How can Obama not move to support this initiative.”
For fear of tipping the balance of power in the US away from his band of merry theives and towards the other band.
Elena, thanks for posting the police chief response. Once again, those who are out there on the front lines are being ignored. Do we see any parallels out there?
What possible reason would either Deane or Harris have to make all this up?
They deal with these issues daily. They aren’t elected.
No one has yet told me how sb1070 is going to help the problem? Throwing lawn care workers and dishwashers into jail isn’t going to even begin to take care of the substantive issues with violence and drug cartels.
@Pat.Herve
Pat, you are right on. I can’t believe how many teens will turn down a job at Mickie D’s because they think it is beneath them. Meanwhile, unemployed adults are literally begging for those jobs, especially FT jobs that provide minimal benefits.
We see fewer and fewer “kids” at the fast food windows, fewer and fewer “white” faces.
And we see more and more immigrant kids vying for those jobs and event taking on day-laborer jobs.
I have seen on a consistent basis immigrant students working harder than American students to perfect their English in writing, reading and speech.
I’m not downing Americans. However, this culture of depending on others–including our dependence on China to produce everything from tech components to tablecloths–has made us lazy. We think Manual Labor is a Mexican and cleaning jobs are for those who can’t speak the language. Our country is rapidly going downhill because we have become complacent. Too many kids are privileged. They are raised to think they are owed college tuition, money for room and board and cars paid for by Mommy and Daddy. They do not grow up doing chores to receive an allowance. They are encouraged to be Ivy League, while the working class is more and more disrespected.
Recently, I hired two “American” teens to help clean my house to get ready for a special event I was holding. I was impressed by their work ethic and wanting to do a good job. They were a breath of fresh air. In fact, when I put the word out there that I needed this help and was willing to pay more than minimum wage, these girls were about the only ones to respond. What does that say about our youth?
As to the AFL-CIO’s request, I can only say that when PWC adopted its initial Resolution, I wrote to Homeland Security, Rice dozens of others to suggest a more reasonable solution and to encourage a national solution. Those requests were ignored, of course, because I’m just one person. I hope a group like the AFL will have more clout.
Palin continues to be an insult to this country, IMO. Just this morning, my older daughter stormed into our bedroom to report she heard Palin didn’t care about the oil spill. She heard it on a popular music station which is non-partisan. We are non-partisan, but both my kids have a deep regard for nature because we spend TIME connecting with nature. Preserving our planet is a value we want to instill in our children who will inherit the Earth. Palin continues to be a rotten role model.
“What possible reason would either Deane or Harris have to make all this up?”
A. It’s easier not to do a job than to do it, if you can get away with it
B. Lowering expectations about what they should be held responsible for. If you can make the arguement that you can’t fight crime without federal Government consensus, so much the better
C. Personal beliefs and ideology, misguided attempts at Christian or other Charity
D. Support from the business community that profiteers off illegal labor
E. Who knows? Who cares? Both men miss the bigger picture and both seem like advocates for making illegal immigrants feel comfortable in their areas. Hardly the work of a good police chief.
May their identities be stolen, and may they someday live with flophouses all around them.
I still think some advocacy group needs to start renting out houses next to our ruiling politicians and business leaders, to illegal aliens. That’ll help turn the tide in this issue.
Rick, are you sure it is they who are missing the bigger picture? Around the country you will hear police chiefs say pretty much the same thing. I don’t see them as lazy at all. They aren’t asking for federal government consensus, they are looking at the law and are well aware of their limitations.
I doubt if Deane or Harris are operating on Christianity. I expect Phoenix has more than their fair share of illegal labor. I expect from what I have read about, their cup runneth over. Isn’t that part of the gripe?
A guest worker program might cut down on the identity theft problem. As for neighborhoods, I don’t think that is how it works out there. I think there has been a Latino community in cities like Phoenix for so long, there isn’t a huge impact made like what happened in PWC.
Again, I still am asking: how will sb1070 cut down on the problem of violence and drug cartel involvement in the US?
Pinko and Pat, I think you both are right about American kids having a work ethic problem. Not sure China has anything to do with it. I also think this problem might be more pervasive in NOVA than in the rest of the state. Are our kids too privileged?
Rick, you really think Deane is not doing his job? Do you think cops aren’t doing their jobs when they don’t pick people up just because they suspect those people don’t have their papers? That’s kind of an insult to our police force which, in general, I believe is vigilant and does not endorse racial profiling.
I don’t believe illegal immigration is fair or good. However, this AZ law and the original PWC resolution do not solve anything. They make matters worse.
Charity is given by people who don’t want to see others suffering, no matter who those suffering might be. Realize, though, that groups like this Catholic Bishops, who respect the lives of others, do not endorse illegal immigration no matter how much they encourage charity which is a part of every major religion and even some not-so-mainstream. Interfaith groups are there to feed the hungry and clothe the poor. They are there to take care of needy children. Charity has no borders.
Religious groups do not support flophouses or identity theft. They want to see the illegal immigrants in this country have a chance to make things right. They want corporations to stop abusing these people, and they want improvements to be made in other countries to stop making immigrants feel like they have to risk their lives to come here. That, to me, is not supporting illegal immigration. It is supporting justice for all.
@Moon-howler
I think the idea of leaving labor to other countries starts at the top. Kids see Wall Street execs and their gazillion dollar boats and think that’s where it’s at.
I DO think kids in NOVA are prone to these feelings of entitlement, but I have seen it in MA, NH and CO as well. Show up at a fast food restaurant in any state that has immigrants and you will see a large percentage of minorities working–and working hard–in low-paying industries. I would like to see some stats on this. I might search for some in a minute, come to think of it.
“you really think Deane is not doing his job?”
Correct.
As to statistics of diminished crime, I remember when I called in theft of parts from my car a couple of years ago. The theives stripped out seatbelts, parts of the air conditioning from under the hood, as well as air bags and radio – they went to town. On a public street in the middle of a weeknight.
When i called it in, I was given no hope of recovery or punishment for the offenders. What we did argue about was whether it was vandalism or theft. I would have had to prove by virtue of documentation that this was more than $1000 worth of raw parts, otherwise it was “vandalism”.
Just as there was technically no theft that night, Deane is technically doing an adequate job fighting “serious” crime. With neighborhoods full of unknown figures walking around with previous criminal history unknown and untracked, with people who can’t speak English driving cars and running away from any accidents they get into.
She made a good speech. I liked it.
“They want to see the illegal immigrants in this country have a chance to make things right. ”
There’s only one way to make it right. Go home.
If we need more workers, we can let them in legally.
@Rick Bentley
Rick, I am really sorry that happened to you. I mean that.
I don’t know how it relates to illegal immigration, however.
Incidentally, do you think we should deport everyone? If so, how will we finance that? It seems more fiscally responsible to have those who want to make things right pay a fine and any back taxes they might owe.
Rick,
I don’t know anyone that supports illegal immigration!
None of my friends or neighgbors supports it, that I know. However, these people support illegal immigration : Barack Obama, John McCain, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, George W. Bush, Eric Holder, Janet Napolitano, Michael Chertoff, and many more.
PAP, we don’t have to deport everyone. We just need for individual states to pass measures as Arizona has, plus cut the jobs magnet off.
How do you make identity theft “right”? By going home and waiting in line. I’m willing to give Amnesty to anyone who goes to the home nation and waits in line legally. THAT is “making it right”; citizenship for cheating is out of the question.
Rick, did you ask to speak to the cop’s supervisor? That is obviously theft. I don’t see how that is Deane’s fault unless he personally was involved. I don’t think all cops are perfect. Not by a long shot. However, I think 90% are good people who want to do the right thing and enforce the laws to the best of their ability.
How do you know that illegal immigrants did this? I got vandalized some 20 years ago. I had my suspects. None of my suspects turned out to be the culprits. The cops actually caught who did it because of their involvement in a larger crime spree. I had been told at the time there was little likelihood of solving the crime.
Rick, why do you say those people support illegal immigration?
And there is not line per se for immigration. That’s the reason immigration reform is needed.
I stole a car using your identity. I want to make it right. I’m willing to park it in my garage. I will be paying sales tax on all the gas I put into it, so it’s not as if I’m getting something for free.
The police here actually do a good job in my experience and tend to respond when called. No I didn’t put up a fuss. Took my insurance settlement and went on with life. but yeah that did happen and it won’t be reflected in the 2007 crime statistics. They caused $3000+ worth of damages stealing $1000+ of parts and it’s “vandalism”, same as if they had thrown a milkshake onto it.
Why do i say those politicians suppport illegal immigration? I’ll keep it short :
“If you are a Hispanic-American in Arizona, your great-grandparents may have been there before Arizona was even a state. But now suddenly, if you don’t have your papers and you took your kid out to get ice cream, you’re gonna be harassed. ” – Barack “Commander-In-Chief” Obama
“And yes, when we find illegal workers, yes, appropriate action, some of which is criminal, most of that is civil, because crossing the border is not a crime per se. It is civil. ” – Janet “Homeland Security” Napolitano
And to paraphrase Eric “Law of the Land” Holder, “I oppose the Arizona Law which I haven’t taken the time to read, because I’m a political hack more than any type of lawyer”.
@Posting As Pinko
What can be expected of young people when they soon will be considered “children” until age 26? (health coverage, I believe).
Must say though, that my 17 yr old neighbor works hard; has seven steady customers for his own business cutting and trimming residential lawns PLUS doing well in school w/ band and sports.
Everybody says SEAL THE BORDER> I have yet to see any suggestion on how this miracle will happen.
Those who really want to come here will go over, under, and around any fence; sneak by any living watchperson, armed or not. Some die but others keep coming. All I can say is that their situation “back home” must be horrendous for them to risk their lives to get to the US. – Yet, that doesn’t make it right.
It would help our young people coming up if they could secure jobs at places like McDonald’s, however right now whole kitchens and most of the sales people need to be blingual.
Is the solution to expect every young American to learn Spanish before they can flip burgers? I’d rather go with deporting illegal immigrants and freeing up jobs for Americans, including young ones.
I don’t say “seal the border”. I say “close off jobs to illegal immigrants, and deport them when they are found”. Either the welcome mat is out, or it is not.
It’s not out in Arizona. Good for them.
@punchak
I think that’s wonderful!! They are real role models.
Unfortunately, because of the economy and cheap companies, “kids” often cannot get viable health insurance, especially those in low paying jobs. I know my younger brother works in a low paying job and can’t afford to pay the premiums. So he goes without insurance.
However, we tend to extend adolescence in our society, and the worse the economy is, the more kids have to live at home–unless Mommy and Daddy want to pay the kids’ rent, that is.
That said, I don’t want to generalize. There are college students who work and go to school but get help with their rent. At least there is an attempt there.
I’ve used that term “seal” with regard to the border in previous posts and I should not have. Look at it this way. Suppose you have a river which is cresting toward flood level. You throw up a barrier of sandbags to contain the flood. Some of the water will always slip under those bags. But, hopefully, you will keep the bulk of the water out and make your problem more manageable. IMO, keeping that illegal immigration problem at a manageable level is what we need in order to find solutions to the internal problems involving those who are already here. And, yes, those who overstay their visas are also a big part of the problem. Another non-partisan Federal failure to add to the list.
Some good points in these posts with which I agree. Focusing on those who employ illegal immigrants and thereby serve the role as a magnet is something that can be addressed simultaneously with the border issue. I have been harping for years on the absolutely horrendous levels of unemployment among our Black youth, and no one seems to pay attention to this possible solution, not even the Black leadership. I send much of my charitable giving to rescue missions, where they shape you up, get you to overcome addictions, and try to prepare you for finding your way toward a steady job. What good is that if , after all that effort, you find out someone else has taken that job because our employers violate our own immigration laws?
As for the work ethic of the current crop of American kids? Some have got it. But far too many are spending their time at video games, text messaging, and just hanging around. I agree that we have to find a way to change that by using some of the same “tough love” practiced by previous generations of parents.
As for the police chief in Phoenix? 316 kidnappings of illegal immigrants in his jurisdiction. And he thinks it should be just business as usual?
“no one seems to pay attention to this possible solution, not even the Black leadership”
Much like white people, and Americans in general, black people have no effective leaders. It’s a mystery to me why Democrats as a whole gave up on the whole idea of protecting lower-class Americans.
Come now all you hate filled racists, whats really wrong with illegal immigration – its just immigration without all the government paper work. These are hard working folks who just want to better themselves here and send some money home. It doesn’t take away american jobs or reduce wages; it doesn’t cost taxpayers anything in terms of crime, healthcare, welfare or spots in college. The only threat caused by illegal immigration is the reaction of some – like Corey Stewart and those people of AZ who will use it to take away our freedom from unreasonable searchs and siezures through racist profiling. I mean – ok, if you have to secure the border – ok, but not with the military. And then what are you going to do with all the illegals that are already here – you cannot deport them – the cost is prohibitive and then too they have families with children who are citizens. You are so mean spirited!!! I am sure theses illegals would all pay legal and regressive fines to stay here or maybe we could just adjust their welfare and other benefits.
No, the Administration should come out strongly and simply in support of the union’s effort to increase its membership and to be sure that illegals now living here have full political recognition. Congressional districts need to be created that are hispanic and based on the census, not voter registration or citizenship. Amnesty is the appropriate remedy, we are not going to have a nation separated by racism.
We americans have a responsibility to help these people find jobs and educate their young. That is why they come here. Really, they do. We need to stop their suffering – in their home countries – by giving them welfare and ObamaCare there to stop the movement here. Charity has no borders – our government can feed them with other peoples money since the Charities are already overloaded and under financed. I agree with the idea of justice and equality for all why don’t you?? I also believe in the redistribution of wealth until we are all of equal value. Wouldn’t that be nice???? We could require, for example, that corporations in foriegn countries treat their workers better with a living wage so they would not have to come here to get one.
Why tp, was that a religious experience or are you in to heavy pharmaceuticals this week?
You might want to lay off of whatever it is you are experiencing. People might laugh.
I question how the sb1070 will fix this problem since it is related to the drug cartels. Isn’t kidnapping against the law there anyway?
Rick, I dont think any of those examples are indications that those officials endorse illegal immigration. In the prez’s case, I think he addresses what’s wrong with probable cause.
In the case of Ms. Napolitano, she is correct. The actual criminal offense is crossing. Once a person is here, the presence of being here falls under a different violation. The woman cannot change the law. She has to deal with what is there.
Holder–I am not sure he is required to read a state law. He didn’t lie about it. He might have had one of his peeps fill him in. Who knows.
What people are uncomfortable with is the probably cause element.
Every time a law is proposed that is supposed to enforce illegal immigration laws, cries of racism and profiling abound. “Don’t ask a brown person for papers! Its racism and profiling.” “Are we going to check papers if the person has a foreign accent?” “How come you always want to check the “mexicans” and not the “white foreigners?”
Well, its time to admit that the only way to INTERNALLY enforce an immigration policy is to check the papers of people that are “different.” Their difference from the average American is EVIDENCE, not “racial profiling.” In fact, unless the Mexican or Central/South American claims black or indian descent, they are white. Mexican, etc. is not a race. Its a nationality and the differences in appearance and accent are evidence that they are not from here. An Irish accent says that the person probably hails from Ireland. Check him.
State law in most states requires that everyone have id. And it gets checked every time LEO’s stop you for any reason.
Walls are nice. You have to man them. Enforcement is nice. You have to have the will to do unpleasant things like deport families. Stopping the hiring is nice. You have to give businesses an easy way to check ID’s and then back them up against subsequent charges of racism when the immigrant has a different SSN than he did last year. I’ve talked to human resource managers that have personally seen this. But, the laws are so murky that businesses are liable if they DON’T hire them.
So, what do we do? Personally, I have no problem with Arizona’s law and found it silly that LEO cannot check an obvious immigrant’s or visitor’s status. If they have an American sounding accent, then they probably won’t be checked. Life’s not always fair. Either we internally enforce immigration laws or, once pass the border, they have a free pass.
I’ve traveled enough to know that every other single country enforces its immigration laws. I always had my “papers” with me and I have been checked. If hotels have to see passports, why not apartment complexes and realtors?
As I saw someone say on TV recently, this whole “show your papers” thing is such baloney. Most Americans’ “papers” are our driver’s Liscence or other ID, and police CAN AND DO make us show it to establish identity.
This was all fine and dandy until now, where Latinos without valid ID (and their advocates) want special rights invested to them.
@cargosquid
Check everyone when they are arrested. That’s what 297g does, right?
Otherwise, we need a national ID card…for EVERYONE. I’m all for it. Everyone is treated equally.
I don’t believe you have to have an id if you aren’t driving.
Well Moon, I am definately into improved and pro-longed living through modern pharmaceuticals — drugs that the government certainly has a new-found responsibility to provide to me at no or minimal cost. I am, after all, a 400 year ago illegal immigrant’s decendent. Heck, my folks cut the first farms, shod the first horses and fired some of the first shots heard around the word – at the red coated home-boys — and dug the first canals. Who has a better right to free government immunizations and drugs to control HIV, diabetes, obesity, lung cancer or congenital heart disease? Heck, I deserve government sponsored child care to nursing care. And let’s not call this Charity or Welfare using other peoples money. These should be entitled government programs. If the new immigrants that have avoided any nasty paperwork can get it – I want it too.
Yep, I have capitulated. If you cannot convince’em with facts and logic, cannot get’em to understand the concerns for our national security in a time of terrorism, concerns for our history and posterity or the nature of this – well, it turns out short-lived experiment in individual responsbility and self government that those same ancestors gave so much for, it must be better to live in your dream world than to honor them or be angrey over what has been or is about to be lost. In my new world — politicains no longer have to promise more entitlements to get elected – or call the other guys racists. Isn’t that what we all want to just get along together. Now, I understand that many of the words and much of the social agenda sounds pretty good in a fuzzy feel good kinda way. I am now for Government sponsored free no-risk retirements, the best free healthcare system in the world, free education, and federal limits on entreprenurial development and no more outrageous salaries – with government imposed standards – er, caps.
Now, I realize that when these things have been offerred in the past (like a volkswagon in every garage or the concept of the new common man), they have not always worked out as planned, but, hey, I am with Woody Allen – all we need is a limited Dictatorship to get things moving again – in the proper direction. Its now out and the real agenda can be discussed thanks to that paridgm of intellect Woody Allen. We can replace those mean, self-interested entrepreneurs with higher purpose federal employees to manage the economy and services (better) . We can open our borders so that every world citizen has the same opportunities that we and our children have worked for. I mean who are we to restrict that access?? Now, can we all sing cumbyya.
See, that’s where you lose me. I have *zero* issue with AZ wanting to enforce immigration law as a state. I have *zero* issue with them checking identities at a jailing facility when the suspect is being processed. However, I *do* have an issue with any and all persons being asked for and providing ID to a law enforcement officer upon demand.
Being out in public is not in itself a cause for an investigatory stop. And, even if I’m out at 0300 that doesn’t mean if I’m just going out for a nightly stroll that I should be detained for an investigatory stop and asked for (and be required to) provide it to agent of the government.
No sir. Thats the line being drawn for me. See, that’s the delicate balance we have to strike whenever we pass a law. How badly do we want to screw the 99% of law abiding people to find that 1% that ain’t. That balance should always favor protecting those law abiding EVEN IF it means that we must allow some evil doers to get away with there crimes. That has been a cornerstone of American law ever since we were subjects of the British crown and I find it an abomination that anyone that shares conservative values would seek to overlook that.
I think we do have an issue with illegal immigration. I also think we have to do something about it. But, stomping all over our Constitution – like Congress did with HCR – is NOT the way to do it. We can enforce our legal immigration system without resorting to mandatory CBP checkpoints in intra-state highways. We can enforce it without having to force everyone to show an ID when stopped and questioned. We can do it legally without resorting to tactics that will simply erode civil liberties of the Americans that the pro-ID crowd want to erode.
I carry a handgun wherever I (legally) please. And in the great Commonwealth of Virginia I don’t even have to carry an ID to do so. And if a LEO asks me for it; I can tell him to pound sand and just walk away. That’s what being an American is about. Liberty. You ‘force’ someone to show his papers and we’re no better than a 3rd world nation with a despot. This is a slipper slope that we should not go down.
If someone is arrested for a crime I have no issue with identifying that person as the State now has an interest in knowing who they have in custody. But, until that point – until I Judge signs off on that arrest warrant – that person is always presumed innocent.
Now, I have no issue with LEO’s using trickery, lies, or ommisions to obtain information from a subject of interest – like in any investigation. But, the idea that somehow walking in a neighborhood is equivilant to driving and that you must be ‘licensed’ to do both and then provide that card upon demand smacks of tyranny and should be resisted.
Marinm,
I agree. And I don’t feel a national ID card is a good idea either. The feds have enough power. My question is, since we DON’T want these things, and there are MILLIONS of illegal aliens, how do we identify otherwise law-abiding illegal aliens (how’s that for a tortured phrase)? Since we can’t seem to stop them at the border, what should be considered “reasonable” for asking for ID? “Profiling” according to perceived nationality is all we have left.