Somehow the entire question seems to look different when it is attached to a darling little face.
As the presidents addressed those in the rose garden, the 2 first ladies went to a nearby school to talk to school children. One little girl asked the show-stoppers of all show-stoppers. Hats off to Mrs. Obama for thinking fast on her feet. And good for the little girl…she was NOT going to let the first lady off the hook.
The text, from the Huffington Post:
While the two Presidents spoke about the need for immigration reformand about concerns over Arizona’s harsh new law — without saying anything new or different — down the road in Silver Spring, Maryland, First Lady Michele Obama and Mexico’s First Lady Margarita Zavala visited an elementary school to speak with a class of second graders.
ABC News’ Karen Travers reports what happened when a young girl spoke up:
The student shyly raised her hand and said, “My mom … she says that Barack Obama is taking everybody away that doesn’t have papers.”Mrs. Obama replied: “Yeah, well that’s something that we have to work on, right? To make sure that people can be here with the right kind of papers, right? That’s exactly right.”
The girl then said quietly, “But my mom doesn’t have any …” and trailed off.
Mrs. Obama replied: “Well, we have to work on that. We have to fix that, and everybody’s got to work together in Congress to make sure that happens. That’s right.”
everybody in this country illegally should be thrown out. this whole idea of bequeathing citizenship on anybody who just happens to be born here is preposterous and a totally unheard of concept in every other country in the world. try breaking into mexico from honduras or guatamela and see what happens to you. the hypocrisy of the left is blatant.
I suppose the only answer is to start loading up those box cars and to start shipping them out…
That’s exactly what it sounds like to me. That is what I am hearing.
The bottom line is, it really doesn’t matter. That isn’t going to happen because we are Americans. So we had better come up with something more do-able. It is very difficult to get documentation if you are from an Hispanic country. For those who think they know it all, ask Twinad why her husband cannot got a status adjustment. Ask why the excellent teachers who come to this country must go home at the end of three years–no exceptions. (and they aren’t usually even from Hispanic countries.) Believe what you want. Most immigration is very difficult if not impossible to accomplish.
I don’t know how to make it fair and still regulate entrance to the USA.
the best solution would be to secure the border. but it wont happen because racist organizations like la raza want as many members of their race in this country because that will increase their power. the left likes the fact of unbridled immigration because it will destroy the evil america which is a downright mean country, in their view. the democrats want amnesty for all the illegals because they will vote for the democrats over 70%.
i guess its already too late. oh well, i will enjoy america in her twilight years
This is heartbreaking to me. My son is also a second grader…I keep wondering what he really knows about his father’s situation. I know he knows is that his father is not a legal immigrant and that if he went home to visit his dying father he wouldn’t be able to come back. He also knows that if we go to his home country, his Dad can’t come with us.
I don’t think he knows anything about “papers” or would think to ask that question to the First Lady if she visited his school, but he doesn’t miss much and I don’t really know how much he understands about the whole situation. The fact is, my son and tens, if not hundreds of thousands of other little kids have one or both parents without legal status. I know many people could give a rats ass about the kids with two illegal immigrant parents, but really, there are tens of thousands of kids in mixed status homes that could be devastated. I just think people are completely heartless if they do not agree that an American citizen should be allowed to marry whom they choose and raise a family without fear of that family being torn apart. WHY can some people get a foreign spouse off a website and get that person legal status, but a couple married for ten years with kids and paying taxes and contributing to their community NOT be able to get a status adjustment? All the people that criticize illegal immigrants for coming here to improve their life have NO idea what it is like to live the lives they had in their home country as kids. My husband started working for pennies a day when he was 7 years old. I just feel like until you have walked in someone elses shoes, there is no possible way that you can definitively say “Well, I would NEVER break another country’s civil law to try to better my life and that of my family”. You DON’T know you wouldn’t do it. If you grew up with no food and started working in a factory at 7 and then when you were 17 you found out that you could have an opportunity to earn $10/hour (when people in your country subsist on $900/year), but you would have to take a risky journey and leave the family you love behind, and you have no hope of a better situation there, you simply do not know if you would have the courage to make the journey and try to make something of yourself, or live in poverty with no hope for the rest of your life. You just don’t know what you would do in that position.
So what proof is there that the little girl is here legally either? She could be an illegal trespasser just like her mom, so we can keep the family together…back in Mexico or where ever Mom is from.
It’s sad that today’s news story is about how they aren’t going after Mom, a known illegal trespasser. It should have been that Mom has been arrested and is pending deportation.
@Wolverine
However, people criticize Mexico, calling it a third world country, saying the leaders are crooked, talking about the filth and poverty. We seem to look down on Mexico until it’s convenient to hold it up as a standard. But that’s the way we treat immigrants anyway–use them and abuse them, and when they are no longer necessary, toss them out.
Pinko — In my opinion, the history of Mexico almost since independence has been one of continual political instability, frequent revolutions and internal fighting, and an unrelenting relegation of the underclasses to an economic swamp. In truth, you cannot blame many contemporary Mexicans for seeking to get to America any way they can. I have the same empathy for the Mexican underclass that I have long had for Africans caught in the same economic and political meatgrinder.
However, it is, in my view, high time that all of us demanded that Mexico start caring for its own underclass rather than trying to mitigate its own problems by inducing its “problem cases” to seek our shores. And Calderon is telling lies flat out when he states that Mexico is doing its part on the border. It is well known that the Mexican government even provides advice on how to sneak into America and that Mexican consulates all over our country help these illegal immigrants to work around our laws. I am sick to death of the duplicity of the Mexican government in this. I usually try to keep my cool on any issue; but, when I see Calderon stand before the Congress and enunciate another pack of lies, I really become incensed. That man badly needs to be brought up short on this. To Calderon and his ilk, America is not longer “Uncle Sam” but “Uncle Sucker.” Once again, the Mexican government has been trying to play us like a piano; and far too many Americans are complicit in it — some for the most reprehensible and divisive reason of all: domestic political votes.
On your second point, you are spot on. Many of us do “use” these illegal immigrants. We have become enamoured by service for cheap prices. I always laugh when someone asks: “But who will cut our lawns, wash our restaurant dishes, and pick our crops?” So, I am inclined to reply, you have a personal use for this underclass which has to deal with the lowest level of wages and no employee benefits and is always at the hire-and-fire mercy of American employers who have no problem with breaking our laws and undercutting their honest competitors? To me this sounds somewhat like the old Southern defense of slavery: “But who will pick our cotton?” Gotta go now. I’ll try to get back to you on this.
TWINAD — Ten years of marriage to someone without legal status, children, payment of taxes, contributions to your community. I think it might help all of us to understand this better if you could provide a bit more detail on how you and your husband have tried to overcome this legal problem and what the specific roadblocks you encountered were. Exactly what and who has impeded your efforts? Also, given all his solid connections to the “American” community, how would your husband fare if he actually did go back to his country of origin and applied for immigrant status through legal channels. There must be some wiggleroom or some kind of “mercy clause” in all this for your specific situation, perhaps even through the intervention of your Congressman. I’m very curious on how all this does or does not work and where the micro-solutions might lie in a case like yours as opposed to a general amnesty for all illegals.
@Posting As Pinko
Please provide legal citations for your statement. Am not certain that you are correct.
Will be checking. Thanx.
Wolverine,
I would be here for quite some time if I had to go into everything we have already done, but here is the quick summary:
Married in December 2001
Saved up enough money to apply to change Status: Spring 2002 Filed all necessary paperwork to have status adjustment considered. About 8 months later, husband got a one year work permit while case was being considered. Got a personal interview about one year after that (just before work permit expired). Told he was not eligible for a status adjustment because no paperwork was submitted prior to April 30, 2001. (Keep in mind we didn’t get MARRIED until December 2001, so there was no way I would have had grounds to sponsor him by that date). A law changed as of April 30, 2001 that if no paperwork was underway prior to this date, then no status adjustments will be granted under any circumstances if the person was not checked at the border. So, in other words, had my husband been here on a visa and overstayed it, then he could still get the status adjustment, but since he had never been checked, there is NO CIRCUMSTANCE WHATSOEVER to get a status adjustment. We have seen multiple lawyers and they all tell us the same thing…keep a low profile and your nose clean and wait for a change in the law. Obviously, were he to be arrested in PWC his status could be discovered. But unless he commits a crime there is virtually nil chance that our home would be rushed and him deported.
So it is just a waiting game for something to change to at least allow cases like ours a chance.
When he got the work permit, a social security number was established for him that will always be his. So that is the number he continues to use to file our taxes.
@Rick Bentley
Are you for real? The girl is 7 (seven) years old! What did you know about laws of any kind at that age?
@e
Any suggestion on how to secure the border?
@Visitor
The little girl probably has a birth certificate showing that she was born in the United States of America / ergo: she’s an American citizen.
And unfortunately, Twinad’s situation is not unique.
No family should have to go through this.
Twinad brings up an excellent point about people not knowing what they would do until they were in the particular situation. It is good to get on a high horse and be all self righteous. However, I don’t think there is a person on this blog who would not do all sort of illegal things to feed their child or to ensure their child’s safety.
Everything is relative. $10 an hour here is near poverty level if you work a regular 40 hour week. In Mr. Twinad’s country, it creates luxury.
This is the only group of people where work ethic isn’t greatly admired.
O.K., Pinko, I am back much sooner than expected. Suppose that we granted amnesty but without honest attention to the security of the border. It seems to me that, if you bring illegal immigrant workers out of the shadows, they will then inherit the benefits of our protective labor laws, that their wages will reach toward normal levels, that employee benefits will kick in, and that the unions will be all over them in a recruitment mode. Sic transit the “cheap labor.” Unless the rest of us can afford to pay higher prices for landscaping services, new homes, restaurant meals, and the crops in the fields, it would seem that these same former illegals are going to be facing some increasing unemployment problems. I know my own HOA would have a hard time renewing the landscaping contract at much higher labor costs because that contract is paid through homeowner fees, already a high point of contention at current levels in a weak economy. I am on a more-or-less fixed income, so you would not find me very often at restaurants. Our grocery and other shopping would become much more careful. Many of us would have no choice but to cut back on our lifestyle; and, since so many immigrants are in the service and construction areas, this would not bode well for their employment levels. And, now that they have legal status with a promise of citizenship, it would seem to me that the self-deportation option might be less inviting — on the theory and hope that things just might be brighter economically tomorrow.
Now, go back to the border issue. Amnesty has been granted but the border is not secure. I personally think that such a situation would set off another wave of illegal immigration regardless of any warning that jobs were more scarce. Hope rests eternal in the human breast. At that point, we might start to get our “cheap labor” back. And who might lose the jobs this time? The amnestied immigrants now possibly unionized and making higher wages and benefits, cut off at the knees by their newly arrived compatriots willing to go back to the old low-wage, no-benefit, under-the-table ways. And how many of us would grasp once again at an improved lifestyle made possible by the new contigent of cheap labor? Combustible, in my opinion. Too much labor chasing too few jobs. The amnestied immigrants might have to go back to the old ways as well just to be able to compete for those jobs.
My own personal feelings in this? The “cheap labor” has to go. If that means I have to cut back on my own lifestyle, so be it. The border has to be fixed, and the American employers breaking the law brought to book. If we need immigrant labor for a specific reason, bring it in on a guest worker basis with no guarantee of permanent residence. Just stop this utterly unconscionable habit of building our own lifestyles on the backs of a low paid underclass. The only way to do that is to cut off the waves of such labor coming across the border unregistered and uncontrolled. Then we deal with the situation of the illegals already here. They have to understand that legal status and improved working conditions may well mean fewer jobs and, furthermore, that this country can no longer afford a major expansion of the welfare system. Find a job or decide to self-deport.
This is to me the point when the Dream Act comes in big time. We have to bring in far too much educated foreign labor to fill our technical jobs in this society. If we take the kids under the Dream Act and push them hard into the professions, we could probably go far toward both resolving the problem of highly skilled labor and accomplishing full assimilation, not to mention lowering the unemployment problems at lower levels. This also allows us to limit that brain drain from other countries where these skilled people are badly needed for development.
Just some thoughts on a thorny issue. One thing I feel certain about, however. We are NOT going to be seeing box cars of immigrants being forced to head for the border. We are far too close in historical time to visuals of the box cars headed to Auschwitz for the bulk of the American people to even stomach the thought of such a thing. We would never live it down.
I expect the child was an American citizen. Her level of English indicated that she had been speaking for a long time. But if she isn’t? What difference does it make? How does that alter the question she asked Mrs. Obama?
Shocking as it might be, schools do not know the legal status of their students. Why would ICE go after this child’s mother? ICE, like all government agencies, have to triage their illegal immigrant problems.
From Wolverine:
I totally agree and I wish people would stop talking like this is what should happen. We cannot deport everyone who is an illegal immigrant. We need to find solutions that include knowledge that we cannot and will not.
And I am for securing the border. However, the realities of private property, the landscape, the terrain, and what is possible and what is not possible all have to be included in that conversation also.
Dang! Looks to me like TWINAD and her husband got caught in that old habit of Americans legislating themselves into a box without any escape hatches. The logical thing to my mind is to have some kind of special tribunal to handle cases such as this one — a tribunal with the authority to pronounce on unsual circumstances and make definite recommendations to higher authority on exceptions to the law. Sounds nice. However, we Americans have also developed a bad habit of misusing such escape hatches by engaging in undue influence and even corruption. In some ways, we are already a “banana republic” and we sometimes pay a price in personal misery for it. Apart from the general debate over comprehensive immigration reform, this case looks like something that Congressmen Wolf, Connolly, and Moran ought to address. The current law needs to be tweeked somehow to give us more options in cases of genuine and honest need.
Totally agree. There should not be situations like this. One also doesn’t want to wave a red flag either.
I know that Frank Wolf was very helpful to a friend of mine whose son [note correction] had married a young woman who was here on a student visa. She overstayed the visa and then they went home. She was not admitted entrance back into the country. My friend moved heaven and earth to get her son back. He wouldn’t leave without his wife. Congressman Wolf helped. But …they were already out of the country. If Twinad were to draw attention and Congressman Wolf were not able to help, her husband would perhaps face deportation.
Agreed. Have discussed that sort of option with attorneys and they advise against it. We could go in front of an immigration judge to argue our case, but because we have no health issues, I make plenty of money on my own and am not dependent upon my husband to support us, we only have one kid, it’s not like I’ve got 7 kids and no job or skills, so we have no true “hardship” case, although I certainly consider a 10 year separation from my husband a hardship, but in the eyes of the law that doesn’t qualify as a hardship. So we have been told just to lay low and wait. And if something ever did snare him, THEN we would have to go in front of a judge and outline all the steps that we had taken and argue our case, but I would only be willing to do that if for some reason he got caught up in a raid or something. Since he is self employed, he has esssentially removed himself from any raid scenarios since they only go after large employers. He would have to be arrested for something, really, for him to be caught. And I just don’t see that happening.
Maybe not. Exceptions have been made to deportation orders, most often on a temporary basis, but nevertheless…..You are truly talking about the break up of an American family here. That should count for a big something. I would think that, if a congressman was involved, there might be more than a bit of hesitancy to deport someone out from under the nose of that concerned congressman. Think of the negative publicity that could cause.
But, ah, maybe I’m indulging in wishful thinking. Seems you can’t trust much anymore. Wolf is the kind of guy who would help. But, given the nature of the current administration, I suspect that Connolly or Moran might have more immediate weight with the powers that be. And, whoa, if you could get Warner and/or Webb in on this thing!! Must be some way to go here without putting TWINAD’s husband in danger of deportation.
Wolverine,
Unfortunately, I’m not that special. Last year there were 8 kids on my kid’s soccer team and two moms were married to “illegals”. There are tens of thousands of families just like ours. I don’t think we deserve special privilege. There are probably MANY couples that rely on the “illegals” income for survival. However, I do believe that it is dead wrong that we and so many other people are in this situation. Clinton extended the time before the law went into effect on April 30th, 2001 is what I have heard. He expected Bush would extend it also, but never did. Bush, I think, wanted to go for comprehensive immigration reform, but then 9/11 came and that obviously was no longer a priority. So now people like us have been in limbo for almost 10 years. THIS is what I mean when the immigration system is broken. You know there are problems when citizens feel like their rights to “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness” are trampled.
Sometimes the law is truly an ass. Only an ass would call the separation of a wife and child from the husband and father for that period of time not a hardship.
Also, about 5 years ago I did write to all my Congressmen. I got a letter back from Warner (John), but his said he served on the Armed Services committee (if I remember correctly) and he felt there wasn’t anything he could do. And my Dad sent a letter to Hilary as his representative. I don’t think he heard anything. I can’t remember now who else I wrote to, but I got nothing from them. And the climate today, can you imagine if Corey Stewart or the Cooch got my name? They’d probably sic GL on me and have my name plastered on BVBL with our home address!
Well, TWINAD, you surely know from this blog how I feel personally about that open border. Close that border down and give us the breathing room to deal with more finite internal problems. Sounds as if cases like yours should be right up at the top of any subsequent agenda. That seems like a no-brainer to me and a very obvious place to start. I would think we could get something like that through in separate legislation, thus avoiding it getting bogged down in the overall amnesty question. It looks to me like a place where compromise by all sides could be very well possible.
One thing that would drive Mexico crazy is a plan to invite all Mexicans that want to come, to fast track to Citizenship. The caste system in Mexico does not allow for vertical movement in society. Those that make money in Mexico, that own businesses, keep the poor Mexican indians down so that they have cheap labor.
Lets invite them and their families to the US. Build some Ellis Island transfer points with resettlement areas, and take away their need to send money back. Do it in a one time only, limited time offer. 5 years. And watch the Mexican government freak. And secure the border.
I agree, Wolverine and Twinad. Too bad we can’t approach a congressman or senator with a middle man to shield Mr. Twinad’s identity. We would certainly be willing to give it a try.
Maybe these states writing their own laws is a good thing. Maybe it will force congress to start trying to fix some of the deficiencies in our laws.
Cargo, I don’t think that many immigrants have their eyes on citizenship. I think that is more of a concept passed around so the political parties can accuse each other.
There is a lot of room between getting a green card and becoming a citizen. I know many people who are permanent residents who really just aren’t interested in the citizenship thing.
@Posting As Pinko
Here is the citation I was asking about.
Under Title 8 of the US Code, Section 1325, it’s a crime punishable by 6 months in jail, so essentially a misdemeanor.
@Moon-howler
That’s what I mean. Set it up so that there is an incentive to become a citizen. No green card. Set up a separate category or something. Smarter people than I (I know, I know, hard to believe….) can probably set up a system. As long as those people are not politicians……
Yeah. Not gonna happen.
My mom told me a funny little story about her getting her papers. In order to process she had to leave the country and enter thru a port. So, she went to Canada to process her paperwork at the border. At the time she was VERY pregnant with my brother and that made the border officials on both sides nervous. The Canadian’s sped her through whatever paperwork they had her do so that she could get back to the border officials on the American side (they didn’t want her to drop my brother on that side as he’d be a Maple Leaf by birth).
You gotta love the rationale they gave her — both sides didn’t want to deal with the paperwork if she gave birth in Canada while trying to get access back into the US and be a legal alien.
And thats why I goto the DMV 5 minutes before close. 🙂
Cargo, it shouldn’t happen. Citizenship should be earned. Perhaps those that are here illegally should be have citizenship denied in exchange for permanent residency. That would remove accusations of one party or the other trying to gather up potential votes. (or put a 15 year wait period on it)
Marin, I am confused about how Canada got involved with your mother gaining entry.
George, I think that code is the entering part. Once someone is here and away from the border, the penalty for being here without documentation is different. I couldn’t find it.
@Moon-howler
Explain that some more, full permenent legal residency with all the benefits but without the vote? Would they be counted in the census – which allocates politcal power? I don’t get it, I cannot get over the part that it rewards those who broke the law, butted in front of those that tried to do it legally (or do we not control the numbers anymore cause there are overall quotas and quotas by country), have access to full citizenship – all in exchange for the commitment to not vote?
I know this is a bad idea to bring up, but, is anyone concerned by our un-employment rate and really out of control burgening welfare and unemployment benefit costs. If work is available for illegals are they not displacing our unemployed? Did the work requirement get eliminated from our welfare benefits?
MH, the law at the time (I’m not sure of what it is now) required her to leave the US and re-enter through a ‘port’ for her to complete her paperwork. She choose to goto the closest port – Buffalo, NY I believe – where she exited, re-entered and got processed for her papers to make her legal.
I think it was amusing that the Canadian’s expedited her because they didn’t want her to give birth in Canada whereby my brother would’ve been a Canadian citizen OR that both the Canadian and American border agents would’ve had to file massive reams of paperwork to re-process the citizenship. I thought the whole thing was amusing, personally. 🙂
A condition of documentation would have to be no welfare services. @ TP. What are the alternatives. I understand your concern about rewarding people who didn’t wait. It just isn’t something I think about because of the nature of things. I don’t believe these immigrants and American citizens are jockeying for the same jobs. One of the biggest job issues involves outsourcing.
There are no easy answers. However, we can’t make 10 million people disappear. So we have to come up with workable solutions. Many of us call that comprehensive immigration reform.
Marin, that is a cute story. I didn’t realize that is how immigration used to work. It must have been many years ago?
Dear Twinad,
As usual, having your share your personal story is what requires people to at least listen to real people with real lives when dealing with immigration. Thank you!