A town-hall-style meeting Tuesday night about a proposed de facto day-labor work center in Centreville was expected to be fiery.
It wasn’t just fiery. It got ugly.
The two-hour-long meeting was organized by Fairfax County Supervisor Michael R. Frey (R-Sully) to gather community opinion about a planned day-labor center — privately funded and staffed by church volunteers — at the Centreville Square Shopping Center. Nonprofits and church groups have said a work center could address concerns from stores and neighbors, who say the bands of Guatemalan immigrants who look for work near shops and the nearby public library are intimidating and a nuisance.
At several points, many in the crowd of at least 300 in the cafeteria of Centreville’s Centre Ridge Elementary School snickered, sneered and yelled at each other and at Frey, who moderated the forum.
One man yelled, “You lie!” at Frey when he began speaking about Fairfax County’s partnership with federal Immigration and Customs Enforcement jail programs. At another point, a shouting match erupted between a speaker and Frey, a moderate Republican who has represented the Sully section of Fairfax County since the district was created in 1991.
“I’m not going to claim this is an end-all,” Frey said. “Do people feel like moving the workers to a location that’s less visible and less prominent, where it could be controlled? Does it make it better?”
The question was met with a chorus of boos.
Way to problem solve. NOT! This is the very kind of behavior that ‘howlings has been disdainful of–thug mentality. Where was the discussion? Where was the listening? Where was the courtesy?
Obviously there is a problem with day laborers in Centreville. If a group is willing to assume responsibility for managing the problem, then why not at least hear them out. It seems better to do something rather than nothing. It seems better to listen and to try new things rather than to just sit around and bitch, piss and moan about something one has very little control over.
Hats off to Michael Frey for looking for solutions to a thorny problem. Lastly, it is hard to respect any opinion when the delivery system is a series of boos and hisses. Intimidation is a bad form of government.
Full story in the Washington Post
[After looking at some footage provided by Rick, perhaps all conversation was not stomped out. I will reserve judgement on what was said in the post until someone sees a video of the the entire town meeting.]
“why not at least hear them out”
Were they prevented from communicating or something? Not from the accounts I read.
Supposedly this is going to air on local TV this week? I’d like to see it.
You don’t “solve” a problem by encouraging it. Every public official should be on notice that we the people are tired of being told we have no choice on this matter than to “learn to love it”.
From what I read from various accounts, Frey and the other pro-illegal proponents of this presented their case, and met a solid wave of resistance. Hopefully he and any other politician stupid enough to attempt to encourage illegal immigrants to feel comfortable in our communities will lose his office at the next election.
And hopefully the guy who owns the shopping center will someday see the light and start to chase loiteres off his property. Until then, it’s his dime (I’m sure he’s losing business).
here’s some footage – http://novatownhall.com/2010/06/02/my-friend-nathan-snow-at-centreville-immigration-forum-meeting/
Here’s more – http://novatownhall.com/2010/06/02/centreville-immigration-forum-meeting-june-1-2010/
I completely agree. Lets move them to a central location so that they don’t intimidate the local merchants. And then process them to see if they are here legally or illegally. The legal ones can stay.
Watching now Rick. The behavior wasn’t as outlandish as it appeared in the post. I would like to see the entire thing.
I am confused as to where the center would be. Would it be at the church or would it be some place else?
I understand the merchants’ frustration. I understand the frustration of those trying to use the library. No one wants to run a gauntlet getting in to the library.
What I don’t understand is the resistance to allowing the church people to try to control the problem.
I got enraged listening to how PWC had solved the problem. Noooooo…they haven’t. Check out the Coverstone area. I got enraged when someone started reading the erroneous stats the Corey put out there on the news. That simply is not true.
I read the article linked above that gives the day laborers’ point of view. None of them were willing to give their full name, because (it was implied) they were illegal immigrants. This suggests that a large percentage of day laborers are indeed illegal immigrants. Regular and irregular visits by ICE to places where day laborers loiter could easily fix the problem without the need to build a day-labor work center.
If ICE won’t do the job, perhaps it is time for Virginia to consider a law similar to that passed in Arizona, which requires the police to check the immigration status of people who are in contact with law enforcement. One of the behaviors that should trigger contact with the police would be loitering at de facto day-labor work centers.
The processing part is up to Fairfax County. I am not sure what can and what cannot be done in that dept. But it seems ridiculous to not want to consolidate the problem. Anyone been to that shopping center and library recently? There is a problem.
Good for the merchants for attempting to do something about the problem. How did it used to be handled? Back in the day, the black and white vagrants weren’t allowed to hover around outside of stores making a nuisance of themselves. They got run off. I guess you can’t do that nowadays?
Why isn’t there a nice governmental day labor office? One shows up, presents ID to the immigration/labor official, signs up, and waits to get picked up. The merchants know that they have a legal worker and the citizenry doesn’t have to deal with illegal aliens.
I would imagine some are and some aren’t documented. Groups I have seen have also not all been hispanic. It does sort of make me wonder to myself where are the unemployed people who are not Hispanic?
Americans have always admired work ethic and spirit Too bad it has come to this.
Americans love work ethic. If they are “undocumented.” then let them work in their country. If they are documented, hire them.
The video shows that the overwhelming majority of those present at the meeting were against the center, and yet Frey gave the impression that it was only a mixed opinion during an interview on AM630. That’s a politician for you, twist the truth every which way.
SA, I would imagine all the business owners would be in favor of the church taking over. They have the proble 24/7 and are dealing with the reality of the problem rather than thepolitics of the problem like many in the audience.
I think the current idea is to place the day laborer center in a small building behind the shopping malls and have church people manage it. That has caused the businessmen with establishments behind the malls —- one of them being the owner of a car repair shop where customers can drop off their vehicles after working hours — are lodging their own compaint against this idea. Somebody did ask why the church didn’t place the center on their own property. The answer: The church people didn’t offer that.
“What I don’t understand is the resistance to allowing the church people to try to control the problem.”
The one woman got straight to the heart of that. She suggested that the Church house the laborers if they’re so concerned.
A proper suggestion. But the churches won’t do that. They feel they are here to exhort and lecture the rest of us, not to give of what they themselves have.
I couldn’t be more contemptuous of that position. F*** THAT CHURCH.
That video is deep.
Yeah I don’t think people want to wade through illegal immigrant loiterers to get ice cream with their kids. Some will call me a bigot for that.
I feel bad for the property owner who feels so beaten down and hopeless, that he thinks giving these guys air-conditioned comfort is his best option. I hope that he feels emboldened to help to attack the problem now.
And I hope that Mike Frey loses elective office, and understands why.
I wouldn’t want to wade through any group of laborers standing around. Since I wouldn’t expect them to be holding out their illegal papers for me to see, that part really makes no difference. I have nothing against laborers, but my life experiences tell me that people in that setting often aren’t as polite as they would be going to grandma’s for Sunday dinner.
Rick, you are telling everyone why something wouldn’t work but have offered no suggestion for what would work.
They are simply trying to find even a poor solution to make things better. I say good for Mike Frey for having the guts to look this one in the eye. I guess our votes would cancel each other out.
Rick, what would you do? It must be legal.
Wolverine, I heard that also. Why would they (laborers) be back there at night? Maybe the car drop off guy needs to provide a more secure setting for his customers in general. Many of those shopping centers in Centreville are not the safest. Centreville has an interesting demographic.
Rick, I have a friend who is tired of swimming through laborers just to go to the library. She feels like she is running a gauntlet.
While the building behind the shopping center isn’t an ideal situation by a long shot, it beats not being able to get into stores and libraries. The solution isn’t going to be an all or nothing. Compromise is going to have to be reached at some point.
“Rick, what would you do? It must be legal.”
Enforce US law. As is being proven by the good people of Arizona, to Obama and Holder’s chagrin, that is indeed legal.
And for god’s sake toss every politician out on their ear who doesn’t support enforcing our laws.
“The solution isn’t going to be an all or nothing. Compromise is going to have to be reached at some point.”
I don’t agree. Whether laws are to be followed, or ignored at will, is all or nothing. Whether American workers deserve any level of protection by their government is all or nothing. Whether we the people run this country, or outsource it to elitist idiots who fiddle while Rome burns, is all or nothing.
Establishing a trailer, legitimizing the day labor thing, will encourage MORE illegal laborers in this area. The last? speaker had it exactly right, it’s analogous to sweeping dirt under a rug and pretending you’ve cleaned, or putting out a bird feeder and expecting less bird crap.
Why some of you here don’t see that, I still don’t understand.
And that tired line we hear of this being a “Federal problem” isn’t so accurate anymore. It’s increasingly obvious that our government fails us on this issue (both parties [the ones that collude against us and market to our fears]), and it’s now primarily a local matter.
Nevertheless activist pin-heads keep sputtering the same lines about how it’s a Federal matter and we can’t stop it, so we must acquiece and provide free condoms to those who seek to rape us.
I really hate that bird crap analogy.
Are you sure you know all the immigration laws and codes in this country? I believe the laws that were enacted back in the early 80’s have been doctored, amended and altered til we don’t know what is really said. Yes, its illegal to be in the country without documentation.
We all agree. How are you going to take care of all the people who have ignored those laws? Are you going to take care of the serious criminals before you take care of those who have just broken ordinances?
Nothing will change if people are not willing to compromise. Same conversation 10 years down the road.
Oh, something IS changing. The CITIZENS of this country are remaining silent no longer. They no longer fear the rant of being called racists or bigots for their children’s futures and the future of this sovereign nation are at stake. Let those who come here illegally take the fight back to their country instead of wasting our resources fighting them here. If you want to piss off and American, just as him or her to give up, it won’t happen!
“How are you going to take care of all the people who have ignored those laws?”
Thy came here because it was in theor economic interest. When they can’t work here, or drive cars, or enroll their kids in school, or get medical treatment, they’ll leave.
Dwoskin and Frey say they are moving ahead with it but want to “do more research” – http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/01/AR2010060104368.html
“Since Tuesday, Dwoskin said he had received a largely positive reaction to his proposal”
You lie! I think a boycott of Dwoskin’s mall is in order if he erects the trailer. But it’ll probably just naturally happen anyway.
My wife has heard first-hand testimonial from coworkers that they don’t shop over there anymore in the daytime because of all the loitering males. If the center’s ereted, and more of them come, you’ll see less and less American citizens shopping and eating there. As has happened in places in Manassas.
I’m sure that some of the illegal immigrants see that as a takeover. And, it is.
Frey is a wildly irresponsible tool, and Dwoskin is a complete p****. (Or, if you prefer, c***. he’s also a x**y*ui**o. Sorry, I just made that one up). This story isn’t going away.
Who here has not yet gotten “the glare” from some male when they walked through some part of Manassas or Prince William that was now mostly populated by Latinos – the look of “what are you doing here? This is our turf now.” You can see this post as raging paranoia if you want, but I’ve seen that look a couple of times. Once by the Goodwill store on Sudley, once at the shopping center near K-Mart.
What do we call the small business owner (landscaper, contractor, painter) that hires these day laborers?? If I have a cook out and the bees are attracted to one pie, I get rid of the pie so that the bees do not come (I eat the pie later 😉 ). Why not go after the employer?? Oh, because he wants to make more money. Or is it that this is the only way be can compete? I know of several people who have left the trades because of the competition – meaning that the cash paying contractor with day laborers was able to offer prices far below a contractor who follows the payroll laws. Treat the disease, not the symptom.
That Church deserves censure too.
You know, this IS a war. There’s no middle ground on this. There’s no compromise position between enforcing our laws, and caving in like a big p*** like Dwoskin and if thugs start taking over ice cream parlors, learning to live with it because enforcing the law offends your genteel liberal sensibilities.
Certainly, I think that in situations like this, Greg L. had/has it right. It’s a battle and it needs to be fought. We are, literally, in danger of losing the America most of us believed in, and we do need to fight for it.
Any police chief or mall owner or church activist who fights to provide sanctuary for criminals deserves heavy scrutiny. They need to understand what they are doing, and how most people feel about it.
“Why not go after the employer?? ”
If you really care, if this is a priority …
You go after the employer
You go after the illegal worker (the most vulnerable party – so go after him hard)
You go after the mall owner who wants to put a trailer magnet up
You go after the church behind this nonsense
You go after Frey
You call the police over and over regarding loitering (not one person complaining repeatedly, but citizens working together in shifts)
And if you have a police chief who is clearly a political activist who doesn’t want to do his job, you go after him
I fail to see why people don’t want to go after the employers, AND the workers. When people stand up and say the employers are the villians, it doesn’t have to imply a pass to the workers.
The issue is persistent and clearly needs to be attacked from mutliple angles.
Rick, I nominate you as the messenger.
Meanwhile, what happens to the library?
Did it surprise you to hear that Prince William County had solved all its immigration problems?
Please. I used to work right across the street from this shopping center and I never felt “threatened” or anything going to Giant in the morning to pick up bagels or at lunchtime. Yes, there were guys there waiting for work (even some white guys), but maybe they were illegals from a country with people with white skin. They were WAITING FOR WORK, not to harrass people going shopping. People are getting hysterical. SA’s comment above that these guys are causing the “future of this sovereign nation are at stake” is just beyond ridiculous.
It sounds like a reason to support having a site out of the mainstream of traffic.
I understand why some women are uncomfortable having to walk past groups of men hanging out for work and that many feel that should not be happening in front of people’s store fronts. (or the library). My feelings have nothing to do with ethnicity and everything to do with gender.
Store owners have every right to not have people loitering. Again, the site sounds like the solution.
Rick I am not sure what you have proposed will ever happen. You have at least suggested solutions that you feel will work rather than just whining about them. I don’t necessarily think they are a political reality however.
Standing with America, standing with American workers who are hurting and need work, standing with communities – local communities/businesses that are hurting, standing with taxpayers and their families and, yes standing with those who have immigrated here legally is not whinning and is not for the sqeemish.
The solution requires hard choices and tough action is required. I don not think this president has the guts. Acting like it would be nice if the world was a better place is — soft headed and increasingly dangerous. Facilitating illegal immigration should itself be illegal. End the craziness, end the incentives for illegal entry to this country that include any access to citizenship – period, end citizenship for their children, end access to public services, health care and education, install Mexico’s rule of law for illegals, send them home and build the wall. We can afford it, because we cannot afford not to. Until this iprocess is invoked and the ssue is resolved, an emergency and sunsetable law is required to authorize any police officer at any traffic stop to ask for identification – period, and if you don’t have it on you, you go into custody until somebody can bring it. No documentation– bus trip to the border or a detention center until some other country accepts the transfer.
“I don’t necessarily think they are a political reality however.”
The whores that run our government are capable of flipping and flopping in any direction, never say never. Did you think you’d see a government bailout of this size? When GWB campaigned against nation building and against racial profiling 2000, who thought he’d end up solidifying rationale for racial profiling and starting a crazy war? Did you ever think you’d see the Democratic party abandon wage controls in the US? Or a Republican candidate recommend paying everyone’s morgage if they were overextended?
“Did it surprise you to hear that Prince William County had solved all its immigration problems?”
Grass always looks greener I suppose. Right now our grass looks pretty green to a lot of people as you can see. Because they have that same abandoned feeling that i had 4 years ago.
IMO the resolution did slow down the rapid growth of illegal immigrants in PWC, and did discourage flophouse owners from investing in townhouses.
I love this video. Two more observations :
A. This is precisely what HSM predicted a few years back – that someday in Fairfax County, things would be bad enough for some people that they would start to move their businesses away and start to move away, and that people would get as angry in fairfax as they had been in PWC. Well, there’s your audiovisual evidence.
B. The whole debate still blows my mind. When did loitering become a federally protected phenomenon? When it was mostly latinos doing it. If American men or kids loitered around a shopoping center all day, Mike Frey wouldn’t be trying to set up a trailer for them, nor would these church-minded buffoons be looking to staff it.
Rick is right. Why haven’t the local police arrested them for loitering?
Because American laws don’t apply if you don’t speak English. Roughly 35% of Americans agree on this, and unfortunately the majority of our elected representatives feel this way also.
If they were white black or Asian, at the point where people were bothered by them to the point that they didn’t want to shop there, or eat ice cream there, the police would make them leave.
But being Latino and presumed “good”, these guys have bleeding-heart organizations in their ear telling them “keep loitering, you have every right. If you keep doing it we will build you a trailer, give you Amnesty for being here illegally, and give you all good things”.
More Michael Frey initiatives coming soon :
A special alleyway dedicated to drug use … to segment drug users and make them less visible to other city residents.
A special “tax free bus” where anyone who steps on the bus can conduct business free of any tax liabilities. This can only help Centreville’s business community. expect a town hall meeting on this soon.
An office space, off the main road, for false identity theft. Since the police can’t stop identity theft, let’s at least keep it out of public view. That way Supervisor Frey will get less coimplaints about identity theft in his District. Westboro Baptist is willing to donate $2000 towards plastic and photography equipment as a show of good faith, and Al Dwoskin will pick up the rest of the initial investment costs.
A designated “pedophile zone” in public libraries, where any sex offenses committed should be limited to. That way parents can steer their children away from those zones. How to keep the pedophiles confined to those zones? Well, it’ll be voluntary. But they’re there already so we need to deal with it. The nice older lady from the centreville immigration forum will be heading this project up. Possibly, a trailer will be established and the pedophiles encouraged to register.
How many of the attendees at the meeting were outside agitators/non-Centreville residents? Did anyone have to state his/her address before speaking? I noticed the guy in Rick’s first video was from Haymarket. The second video wouldn’t load for me.
I’ve been at public meetings where the neighborhood thugs – and I don’t use that term lightly – shouted down everyone else regardless of Robert’s Rules. It took a woman with a video cam and the presence of the local BOCS member and County Attorney to bring order to the second meeting. – plus audience members demanding that the thugs state their names and addresses before proceding. I’ve since developed a high intolerance for trashy behavior at public hearings/meetings. (The behavior comes off as a bunch of self-centered old farts who think that their opinion is the only one that needs to be heard.)
I noticed that the majority of the attendees were again white and older. Hmmm. Same old stuff.
How has Herdon’s day laborer problem worked out in the long run? Men massing on the streets to an organized center to men on the streets again. Better or worse? Is it worse to have an organization that sees to it that men are paid a better wage – or paid at all for work done?
As to the catcalls, they seem to run with the construction trades. Back in the day, I received my fair share of them from our home-grown boys. You could tell by the vehicle when it would happen and, of course, it was spoken and fully understood in English. The more things change, the more they remain the same.
The second video is the one to watch. It’s a 10-minute summary of the meeting.
At least two “brown people” got up and spoke … you should really see the video. http://novatownhall.com/2010/06/02/centreville-immigration-forum-meeting-june-1-2010/
Rick, for some reason that video won’t load for me from either link.
Rick, you are enough of a historian to know about loitering back in the old days. It went on all the time. Dog food bags in front of grocery stores are my fondest memory of it. And if the ‘baggers’ annoyed the customers, they got run off. There were no hispanic people in the mix.
Loitering was a huge problem during the depression, which I know nothing about first hand other than from movies. I just saw one the other day and loitering came up.
In this area, Hispanics get to be the bad boys. When I was growing up it was black and white men, although not in the same clusters as a rule.
Rick, I got the video to load on another browser. It doesn’t change my opinion of the issue. I’ve heard it all before. When I heard the “bird crap” analogy, I thought “over-used Repub talking point” on par with the gumball video.
I’m curious about how the Baskin-Robins guy knew that the drunk was here illegally. Seems like more stereotyping to me. I think we’ve all been in public establsihments which we’ve left either because of drunks, foul-mouthed jokers, gun-toters, or general unease with the make-up of the crowd. I wonder if the car repairman has a place on the front of his lot where his customers can leave their cars. I don’t like having to use the back of any car lot when leaving my car or keys.
My question is “what are the objectors’ solutions?” Don’t give me some general blah, blah, blah. The economy is driving the issue. How strict can we afford to be? What paperwork should be necessary to be hired? Who’s going to check the paperwork and at what expense? What type of visas should we be more generous in offering, if any?
“I’m curious about how the Baskin-Robins guy knew that the drunk was here illegally.”
It sounds as if he were working with police.
“My question is “what are the objectors’ solutions?” ”
Well the majority of the people in that room pretty clearly want to go in the direction of PWC and of Arizona, towards increaded deportation and decreased comfort levels for illegal immigrants.
I guess it’s easier to put up a trailer and enable a few do-gooders, and mumble a few words about “It’s a Federal problem” than it is to actually do something. Frey is visibly irritated that his constituents expect anything at all from him.
A real leader would be appalled by the Baskin-Robbins owner’s story, and would interface with police to make it a priority to deport the illegal immigrant.
Not build a trailer and invite the guy in for a cold one.