Did you miss him? Jon Stewart has been on vacation for the past 2 weeks. He is back now and is tackling the problems of the Korea Peninsula and the lastest crisis in the middle east.
| The Daily Show With Jon Stewart | Mon – Thurs 11p / 10c | |||
| Clusterf#&k to the War House – Korean Peninsula & Middle East | ||||
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It is complicated, there are many shades of gray. People on both sides are suffering. What is lacking is REAL credible trustworthy leadership. Arafat really effed it up when he and Ehud Barak were so close with Clinton and the peace agreement.
Peace was within reach. I wonder how many years before people give Clinton the credit for his great near accomplishment?
Actually, Clinton does get the credit now. The only reason its not news is because there is no agreement for the history books to point at. Clinton gets the credit for getting them to talk. Unfortunately, a successful peace treaty is not what the Palestinians want. They want Israel gone. Completely.
Many did, but not all. Too bad Arrafat didn’t do more for the Palestinians. He probably has much of their wealth also. I feel he really sold them sort then died and left them with nothing.
western society has been dying since the suicidal battle of verdun in world war one. the islamic caliphate will soon conquer europe, and america is in its sights too. jihad can be waged through violent means (terrorism), but don’t discount more subtle ways. the left and the islamists are incompatible on many issues, but they are united in their undying enmity toward america, liberty, and freedom. the biggest supporters of israel are the rightwing talkshow hosts like rush limbaugh, the very mention of whose name sends the left into paroxysms of rage. buy andy mccarthy’s new book ‘grand jihad’. also worthy, zev chafets ‘an army of one’.
e, have you ever looked deep inside to find out why the uber cons love Israel? It has nothing to do with love the poor Israelis. The Religious Right will sit there while every last one of them is swept into the firey pits of hell.
The great love affair with Israel is all about fundamentalist prophecy and being swooped up during the rapture. Israel has to exist for this to happen.
I am sure that some one will come along and set me my little hedonistic heart straight on what is really supposed to happen but it isn’t good will towards Israel that is the incentive.
The conservative religious that I know, that support Israel do so because of many reasons. Its a democracy. Its the birth place of Christianity. Judeo-Christian values. Fundamentalist prophecy and rapture is a small part of modern fundamental Christianity. Its a state that has Western values. Your description that the religious right will sit there and not help them is wrong because that “religious right” is some of the strongest political supporters of Israel.
I support them because the side that keeps shooting at them are terrorist scum. Hezbollah, HAMAS, and Al Fatah care nothing about the Palestinian people. HAMAS just destroyed the supplies that Israel let through proper channels from that “peace” flotilla. I support Israel because civilians hide behind Israeli soldiers while HAMAS, etc, hide behind their civilians and then target Israeli civilians. Those organizations have killed more Palestinians than Israel has. Where’s the outcry about that?
If the Palestinians form a separate country as it is now, formed an official military, and then went to war, then I would respect them. But they insist on targeting civilians instead of the military.
Not to mention dancing in the streets on 9/11.
As to the “peace flotilla,” I would have been surprised if Israel had found any weapons, etc. This was nothing more than a provocation to force Israel to stop the boats. Israel was in a no-win situation. Either enforce the blockade or drop it completely.
The activists wanted more bloodshed, but were caught unprepared. They wanted Israel to overreact, as illustrated by their repeated statements of wanting to be martyrs.
Our Coast Guard would have done the same, if we were blockading, in fact would probably open fire with deck guns to disable the boats. Israel actually showed restraint. I don’t think our Coasties would have brought ANY paint ball guns filled with pepper. They tend to bring Mossbergs.
I wouldn’t discount the prophecy stuff. I have been aware of it for years. It is strong motivation to have Israel in place for religious events. To those who believe in rapture, it is pretty motivating. I think the whole truth ought to be told about the support of Israel.
I don’t think either side is innocent. And I am not chosing sides on this latest skirmish. Not enough information is known. I am just glad I don’t have to be worried about being hit with shells or blown up by suicide bombers every day of my life.
I will side with Cargosquid fully on this. That blockade was announced and is, in my opinion, being carried out on the high seas in accordance with international law in a situation of ongoing conflict. It is technically and legally the same sort of action taken by the United States in blockading the Confederacy and by the Allies in 1914-1918 and 1939-1945 in blockading Germany. The Israelis, in my opinion, had every right to stop and search those ships. Whether or not guns or other war materials were found in this case is irrelevant. You do not take the word of a blockade runner. You do not allow your blockade to be penetrated and become meaningless. You make the would-be blockade runners turn away or you seize their vessels.
That “humanitarian fleet” was, in my view, a deliberate provocation in a situation where humanitarian aid for the people of Gaza could have been transshipped through peaceful international means with the full cooperation of the Israelis. In fact, unlike other historical blockades, the Israelis are not trying to starve the people of Gaza into submission, only to keep out the weapons of war which have been launched at Israeli military personnel and civilians alike. The Israelis offered to facilitate the movement of humanitarian supplies through other channels. That fleet was trying to break the blockade by attempting to use international public opinion as a weapon rather than stealth or force. In fact, I think that being stopped by the Israelis and then profiting from international publicity was their real goal rather than providing actual sustenance to the people of Gaza. The Israelis should stand fast on this. The refusal to recognize the right of Israel to exist puts that area in a perpetual state of war; and the Israelis have a right to defend themselves in every way they can.
Claiming that American conservatives support Israel only for religious theological reasons is a stretch. I will admit that there is some of this. However, there are many, many of us who are admirers of what the Israeli people have done in building a democratic state virtually from scratch. The Israeli people have risen Phoenix-like from the ashes of the death camps of Europe and pogroms elsewhere in the world to create a modern economic and governmental miracle and to state unequivocally: “Never again!” I support them. I also recognize that, while Israel is a comparatively small country, it has become one of our staunchest and toughest allies in a world of widespread conflict. They are on our side, and they bring much to the table. The rapture and any other religious theories have nothing to do with the way I and many others feel about Israel. What Israel gets from me is pure, unadulterated respect.
Wolverine, I NEVER said ONLY for religious theological reasons. Certainly there are people of all political stripes who support Israel because they support Israel. But there is strong religious support of Israel for prophecy reasons.
I respect Israel also, much of it is for the reasons stated. However, my respect and support does not blind me to the fact that they have not always been on the right side of the humanitarian issues.
I believe we are still learning what happened on the high seas. Therefore I am not sure how I feel about what happened. I get the strong feeling that what we learn might be also what we know as a controlled environment.
A great movie on this subject is Isreal: The Birth of a Nation. I like and respect Israel. I don’t think they are perfect. Additionally, what went on after WWII has created some of the situations that plague everyone today.
Blockading the south is not always a good way to convince some of us of your point of view, Wolverine. There is a tiny bit left in me, some 150 years later that thinks about the people who starved. It is hard to erase from the regional collective consciousness, much as I try.
Here is the link for e
http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Christianity/2002/06/The-Rapture-Factor.aspx?p=1
Moon, you don’t have to explain the applicability of the Rapture and the rest of that theology to me. I was raised in a milieu where some of that existed. I know exactly what you are saying, and I myself am uncomfortable when I see that as the sole rationale for the support of Israel. I think many Israelis are as well.
To me the key issue here for the Israelis is to retain the support of those non-Jewish Americans who believe in the existence of Israel not because of theology but for the reasons I stated with regard to myself. However, I just read an article which made me very concerned. There seems to be some evidence now that, while the older members of the American Jewish community strongly support Israel, there are an increasing number in the younger generation who have become at best indifferent on the issue. That concerns me a great deal. As a non-Jewish American, a big part of me supports Israel for geopolitical and strategic reasons. But I was also born during a horrible era for the Jewish people. As a Christian of Teutonic origins I have also taken upon my own shoulders a certain psychological responsibility for that era, even though I had nothing at all to do with it. I have willingly assumed part of a debt, and I will under no circumstances ever participate in anything which may promise to repeat that terrible era in some way. I cannot look away with impartiality from any possibility of a second act to the Third Reich. Agreed that Israel has not always been right in some of its decisions, but none of us are perfect. It is important to me geopolitically and psychologically that the Israelis continue to live in freedom and have the ability and support to protect themselves.
I have also lived among Muslims, at one point almost totally immersed in a Muslim culture. They were my neighbors, my students, my colleagues, my friends. I just wish I could impress one thing upon them. If they would make just one statemet with honesty and good intentions, much of the conflict in Palestine could start to be healed. That statement is : “We recognize that Israel has a right to exist as a free, independent, and non-Muslim state.” My belief is that such an honest admission would begin the process toward a two-state solution in Palestine, start to diminish the endless killing, and provide the Palestinian people themselves with a true opportunity to build their own miracle in the Levant. Just one admission, honestly made.
I don’t disagree, Wolverine. I have not lived around muslims overseas and I will take your word for it.
I think Israel and Palestine have both squared off and refused to compromise, for the most part. I see Americans doing the same thing. I was talking to a friend today about a politican we both like. This person is a Republican but apparently not enough of one for his base. His base wants to throw the RINO out. I hear of this all the time. So it is better to elect someone far away from your beliefs than someone who shares many of your beliefs?
I was an adult before I ever heard of the Rapture. I know it isn’t biblical, the term. I find it rather…strange…for lack of a better word. I was raised mainstream Presbyterian and they were far too prissy to entertain such things as floating in the clouds. 😉
Soooo…..Presbyterians always take the train, then….;)
Dunno. I never heard of the Rapture when I was one(a Presbyterian).