A recent study on immigration from George Mason Univsity seems to have brought out the worst in our County Chair, Corey Stewart and newly appointed CXO, Melissa Peacor. Perhaps Ms. Peacor should be forgiven. She is a newly hired CXO who apparently came in under the auspices of Mr. Stewart. She hasn’t been around long enough to be an independent thinker. Even if she is, perhaps it is wiser to quote the party line. However, in the case of Corey Stewart, there is simply no pass. He is his usual bigoted, uninformed, blow-hard, name-calling, opportunistic self.
From the News and Messenger:
A new study from the George Mason University’s Project on Immigration finds many immigrants have lived in fear since the passage of Prince William’s 2007 resolution that requires police to check legal status of those who are arrested.
The study was conducted by Debra Lattanzi Shutika, an English professor and folklorist, and Carol Cleaveland, a professional social worker. Lattanzi Shutika also said they were both “ethnographers,” which she defined as a research methodology that focuses on in-depth interviews with people.
“We go into communities for long periods of time and talk in depth to people,” Lattanzi Shutika said, adding that the GMU study conducted interviews in two communities in Manassas called the Weems Neighborhood and Sumner Lakes. “In some cases, we had two-to-three hour interviews.”
For the study, headlined on a press release from GMU as “Strict Immigration Law in Virginia County Adversely Affecting Well-Being of Latino Residents, New Survey Shows,” the two researchers interviewed residents of 60 Spanish-speaking households and 104 English-speaking households, Cleaveland said.
The goal, according to Cleaveland, was to “understand the true experiences of Latino immigrants living in a certain area of Prince William County … [and] to understand what kind of experiences they were having since the resolution.”
Those experiences, she continued, were that “people are afraid to leave the house, people feel that if they go to work they could be picked up or deported while their children are in school, and people have abandoned their homes because of this law.”
The study, according to both researches, did not differentiate between legal immigrants and illegal immigrants – and that is problematic, said two county officials.
The goals of the study were clearly outlined and the results compiled. Now Mr. Stewart objects to that fact-finding mission and even goes so far as to name-call the 2 women who conducted the study, “Illegal alien apologists.” Stewart further insulted 25% of the county population by stating:
“They’re doing exactly what all the other illegal immigrant apologists do and that is to lump all the illegals with legals, so their findings are useless,” said Corey Stewart, chairman of the Prince William Board of Supervisors. “If you’re here illegally, you should be living in fear of getting deported, because you should be deported.”
Apparently Stewart still doesn’t grasp the concept of ‘blended family.’ He doesn’t realize that while some Latino folks have full documentation, many of their friends and family might not. Thus, he insults everyone.
He continues:
Stewart called the findings “useless,” however, and issued harsh criticisms for the year-long research.
“The job of academia is for logical debate, not to keep the dialogue going,” he said. “If it’s not scientific, they why even produce this information? This survey was conducted by a group that is more interested in political agenda, than in objective analysis.”
Useless? Perhaps Stewart has forgotten the butt-ripping he got from Linda Chavez over his anecdotal documentation of the immigration problem he said existed in Prince William County. He told her during the fact finding hearing of the Human Rights Commission that he had gotten his information from the community.
Obviously he does not know or understand what the job of academia is. ” Logical debate, not to keep the dialogue going?” Does he realize how stupid that statement is?
Actually, I don’t expect more from him. He will discredit anything and anybody to get a vote, apparently. Was it not just 2 months ago that he went down to Stafford and whooped it up, good ole boy style, over refusing to process paperwork for newly qualified medicaid potential recipients? The closer he got to home, the more he wimped out. First the Tea Party Rally where he handed out fliers toned it down a bit. By the time his rash ideas made it to the board of supervisors, it was but a tiny whimper and a non-scientific study.
Ms. Peacor probably needs to do a quick review about scientific surveys. The UVA survey is missing a few components before it could truly be considered a scientific survey. Just a little more oversight and control of survey conditions is needed. Furthermore, theUVA survey questions people’s reaction to how the police do their job…not what people think of the resolution. Ms. Peacor stated:
Prince William County Executive Melissa Peacor, meanwhile, pointed to “serious errors” on the GMU press release that indicate the survey could have been skewed from the start. The GMU release refers to the county’s “Rule of Law ordinance [that] requires that police check immigration status of all who could possibly be in the country without authorization.” But, as Peacor said, the resolution actually requires that legal status be checked on all who are arrested.
“If the researchers misrepresented the actual position of the county to the respondents,” Peacor said, in an e-mail, “then that would bring their findings into serious question and more seriously lead to greater fear in the Latino community.”
The study is neither “statistically valid nor scientific,” unlike the county’s annual citizen survey from the University of Virginia, which found in 2009 that nearly 86 percent of Hispanic respondents expressed satisfaction with the county government, Peacor added.
Peacor has no reason to think that anything was misrepresented to those surveyed. The PWC Immigration Resolution evolved many times. I have lived here for decades and it is difficult to keep up with exactly where we are in the evolved process. Imagine being a relative newcomer to the area. More importantly, perception is reality. Many involved in the Immigration Resolution development have since admitted that the “scare and fright” aspect of the resolution actually accomplished what they wanted to do. Therefore, any noises made by county officials that implies that ‘isn’t what we meant’ is just pure bull crap.
Can we accept that both surveys question different aspects of life here in Prince William County? Hopefully our county officials know the difference. According to the researchers:
“…their survey was not intended as a political commentary on the county’s resolution, or as a means of pushing a change in policy, but rather a conversation starter that could also, according to the release, “predict consequences of new Arizona law.”
Corey Stewart keeps switching hats, depending on which paragraph he is on. On the one hand, he wants to be Mr. Bad. He plays the tough guy–let’s arrest all them thar illegals. In the next breath he switches hats, puts on his Mr. Feel Good face, and says ‘oh no one has anything to fear, we only look at status of those arrested.’
Meanwhile, anyone who doesn’t want to round up ILLEGAL immigrants, drive them to the border and shove them out of the bus in the desert and drive away must be an ILLEGAL ALIEN APOLOGIST.
@Moon-howler
Moon – I understand what you are saying and it reflects well on your strong character. I don’t enjoy, and I doubt MOM does either, having to bring these issues out. However, for whatever the reasons, they have fallen in our laps and we feel an obligation not to put our heads in the sand. The other blog to which you referred will not likely give much attention to anything that reflects so negatively on Corey Stewart. Like having to dole out “hard love” to a miscreant family member it’s just one of those things we need to do for the welfare of everyone, including the overwhelming majority of County employees who are good people working for a better community for all of us.
Corey:
Fire, Ready, Aim,
oops, screwed that up, well its only some casualities that wouldn’t vote for me anyway.
Lets try again
Fire, Aim, Ready
Damn it, still not quite right, well they must have been apologists for something
Third times a charm
Ready, Fire, Aim
Oooh, that hurt, took out some of my supporters, I need to learn to be more careful
Ready, Aim, Fire, NO I mean STOP.
Damn it, forgot my promises to them, I’ve got to stop shooting my supporters.
Mom, I am howling with laughter. He has killed them off, one by one. Elena reminds him at every opportunity.
He is definitely a member of the gang who couldn’t shoot straight.
Mom, that is just too funny. Your sarcasm is truly one of a kind. I can’t stop laughing. thanks
Is it fair to call the women illegal immigrant apologists?
Well, here’s one literally shifting the reason for anger away from any action perpetrated by illegal immigrants, onto the angry party’s ignorance –
“Many of these residents seemed to be experiencing what I have identified as ‘localized displacement’ – they feel as if their home community has changed to the point that they now feel out of place. This, I believe, is in part the source of frustration and resentment that we have observed in Northern Virginia and more recently in Arizona.”
If she did “ethnography” with people who support the resolution, and/or are angry about illegal immigration, they would probably tell the “ethnographer” that the reasons involve overcrowding, tax base erosion, standard of living issue in communities, and job loss and wage reduction for citizens. But rather than engaging in such “ethnographic” exercise, easier perhaps to just say that the issue is “localized displacement”. A nice theory that excuses the illegal immigrant community from having actually antagonized residents by virtue of lowering wages, turned townhouses into flophouses, or consumed more county resources than they pay in. No, that blame is not studied in “ethnographic” detail, by the “ethnographers”.
ILLEGAL, ALIEN, APOLOGISTS. Fits, when you think about it. Quiteliterally, the woman above creates a construct where the illegal immigrant is the victim.
Rick, read the study. I think you will find some very interesting information, especially the NOv. 2009 press release.
And regardless, Illegal Alien Apologist is simply rude name calling and Stewart needs to be called out on it.
I understand NTK. Let me talk to Elena.
Rick, it is what it is. She still handed him his butt and he now turns around and attacks someone else for the same reason…anecdotal rather than empirical documentation.
And truthfully, I don’t care one way or the other about the study. It is the fact that once again he feels like he has to comment. There is certainly room for the kind of study those women did. I feel certain that they were also training college students to conduct that type of survey. (regardless of topic)
Frankly, so much of what we do has gone to ‘data’ and data crunching, dysaggregating data, aggregating data blah blah blah …I am glad to see people actually talking. It is a lost art in many cases.
What they do with their results is neither here nor there.
Who we elect to our board of supervisors is very definitely relevant. I would hope you had more hope for the county than El Jefe Stewart, Rick.
“There is certainly room for the kind of study those women did.”
Not trumpeted as if it were research. Blah blah blah I feel the problem is localized displacement. My opinion plus 25 cents gets me a stick of gum, thank you for listening, the end.
Do you consider yourself an “ethnographer”, MH? Arguably this is a hotbed of ethnographic research right here.
Stewart once gave me hope, and still gives me hope. And this thread reminds me why I more or less love him, and will vote for him even if he missteps time to time.
It most certainly is a form of research. Interview research? Sounds like a winner to me. How else do we explore things like this. There are some things that just don’t open themselves up to multiple choice.
http://eagle.gmu.edu/newsroom/783/
No, Rick, I don’t consider myself one of those.
Truthfully, I just looked it up to make sure I was right about what I thought it was.
I tend to think of Lewis and Clarke as the first ethnographers. Where would we be without them?
Is reading a map a lost art?
– PWC Westgater Greg L. starts Help Save MANASSAS.
– Fellow PWCer Fernandez, primarily angry with Corey and the PWC resolution,
slaps his obnoxious rants on signs in Old Town MANASSAS.
-Two people from PWC film the Fernandez fiasco and name their product after
a MANASSAS street address – compounding the Ff mess.
– Manassas Park cop accused of abusing a Hispanic woman – results in a
“barefoot march of we share your pain” though, you guessed it, MANASSAS.
– Two misguided folks from GMU “investigate the fear caused by the PWC
resolution” and their interviews are conducted with City of MANASSAS residents!
Stop it! Enough! Go away!
It’s “research” in the way that very many things are research.
The “research” perpetrated here by the “ethnographers” is of a similar quality and importance.
[Editor note:editor being Elena this time! I deleted an obscene comment by Rick, it was simply inacceptable]
The City of Manassas has a population equal to only ten percent
of Prince William County’s so why do PWCers and others insist on coming
to our nice little city to cause trouble (Even infamous John and Lorena B.
were PWC residents)?
Hey Poor Richard, don’t get so high and mighty with that “reading a map a lost art” statement. Apparently, you can NOT read one yourself. Greg is NOT as WestGater, he’s a Sudleyite. I thought you knew the lay out of the land better. hmmm.
Stewart says the job of academia is not to keep the dialog going. Well, that figures. Stewart never wanted a dialog. Dialogs are what keep communities peaceful as residents find solutions. Debates are what create courtrooms and teams. With Stewart, it’s about “winning” not finding a solution.
While I agree that it would be helpful to have known how many of the respondents were here illegally, I can see the issue. How many people would participate in this kind of research if they were here illegally and were already fearful? This is the crux of the problem–illegal immigrants can’t come out from the shadows so it is difficult for any of us to know what is going on in their heads and communities. We are stuck with presumptions, assumptions, hearsay, stereotypes and myth.
I also think many people are overlooking the intent of the study, which was to identify commonalities between immigrants here and those in Arizona who are experiencing similar “challenges” as those in PWC. Stewart refuses to acknowledge those similarities and instead chooses to put down the university. Bit then again, that has always been Stewart’s preferred method–put people down and maybe they will shut up.
@Rick Bentley
[Editor note:editor being Elena this time! I deleted an obscene comment by Rick, it was simply inacceptable]
Well, that’s an honest comment. Straight from the hip, and no beating around the subject.
😉
heh heh. Nice one Ring.
Where is the actual study? Why just a press release with no way to see the actual study? It would be interesting to see how the questions were phrased and what questions were being asked.
Also there are other immigrants in the area how come they just interviewed Hispanics. Wouldn’t that be called racial profiling? Where are the Asian, Muslim, Irish immigrants for their study?
Flawed? I would have to say it was racist.
Maybe the City of Manassas needs to erect a wall or fence around its boundaries.
Perhaps Poor Richard is forgetting his roots.
Whatever, I have posted the links to what I know about. That’s as good as I can do. Look at the blue highlights in the original post. Click on them.
I don’t think they just interviewed Hispanics. I think they chose random addresses from at least 2 neighborhoods that are actually in the City of Manassas. If you look at some of the links it should tell you how to contact the women who conducted the study if you are that interested.
Ok, Rick and Ring. Our blog is not a locker room. Civilized debate doesn’t include discussion of your personal habits. That which I don’t allow my dog to do in the living room isn’t allowed on the blog.
“Strict Immigration Law in Virginia County Adversely Affecting Well-Being of Latino Residents, New Survey Shows,” the two researchers interviewed residents of 60 Spanish-speaking households and 104 English-speaking households, Cleaveland said.”
Doesn’t say anything about any other immigrants
This is what ticks me off about this whole subject of illegal immigration. This isn’t an Hispanic issue! It is about those in America or more specifically in PWC, who are here ILLEGALY.
how do you tell?
Ask for papers don’t you know! That’s how you tell, besides the obvious.
This is what you would do, SA? I don’t know if my next door neighbor is here legally or not. I sure wouldn’t go ask to see him papers. I don’t have the authority.
That’s why we have the resolution! So the police can ask.
And if my next door neighbor is arrested, I would hope the police do ask. That is what is required by law in our county. I don’t want them banging on his door to find out, however.
OOOPpppsss sorry guys (R & R), Elena has spoken. I was just gonna snarl because I have bad boys brothers. She has no brothers. Therefore…Elena has spoken.
“whatever”,
You know Greg’s blog well, please don’t act like you are an innocent, it’s unbecoming and disingenuous. To suggest that “illegal Immigration” hysteria was not directed at Latino’s is simply ridiculous. Every entry about “illegals” was directed at people with hispanic surnmanes. How about the whole Zapista silliness! Weren’t we being invaded at one point from all the “south of the border” communistas??!! Every flyer I recieved during the 2007 election cycle from rabid republicans, trying to use the issue to get elected, showed hispanic men climing a fence. PA-LEEZE, lets not pretend like this issue was not about the “mexicans” that were “invading” us from our southern border. Do you seriously want me to post all the comments that WERE 95% if the time directed at spanish speakers????!!!!!
And as for the study, obviously the researchers wanted to study Latino immigration responses and not other ethnicities. I expect if they had wanted to study Asian immigrants they would have gone to a different location where more Asians live. Makes sense to me.
I object to the seeming slams on ethnography as a study method. I was an anthropology major in college, and had to complete some very brief ethnographic studies as part of my training (I used a more objective methodology for my thesis later). Is ethnography more subjective than other research methods? Sure. However, it should not be discounted as an invalid method of study. It is just different from some other methods; it offers you different information.
To automatically discount ethnography would be to dismiss the work of Mead, Malinowski, Levi-Strauss, as well as many other well-known or well-respected anthropologists or sociologists. Cultural ethnography was also one of the driving forces that influenced Japanese primatology, as well as the work of Jane Goodall (primatology was my specialization within the field).
Ethnographers can work in all kinds of different fields. Many times, they are participant observers…someone who observes a culture or group of people while interacting with them. Ethnographers are trained to always be aware of themselves, as well as those they are observing. You have to know and record what your thoughts and opinions are, as well as keeping in mind the impact you have on the group of people you are studying…all this in addition to taking information from the group. It is a complex research method, and can yield some valuable information (through interviews, observation, participation in rituals/customs, and general contact with the group) that you may not be able to get from other methods.
Maybe I’m wrong, but I think that this methodology is slammed more because people don’t understand it…and it didn’t hurt that the findings in this particular case did not mesh well with detractors’ ideologies. This ethnography, a perfectly acceptable method of study, tells the story of a specific group of people. Their voices count, even if you think they come from the wrong area, or the wrong side of politics. Do the voices of these people represent all? Of course not, this is a slice of life and take this information for what it is. Read its findings through the correct lens, and it can still offer an important insight on this issue.
Thank you for sharing that information DG, very helpful on shining the light on this study!
O.K. , M-H and I are laughing quite heartily right now, wondering why a Jew who made blue jeans would know about anthropology!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So, in order to share in our new found discovery, there is a CLAUDE Levi-Strauss, French anthropoligist and then there is LEVI STRAUSS, German immigrant, who is well known for creating the first denim jeans!!
here ya go…blue jeans…from about.com
In 1853, the California gold rush was in full swing, and everyday items were in short supply. Levi Strauss, a 24-year-old German immigrant, left New York for San Francisco with a small supply of dry goods with the intention of opening a branch of his brother’s New York dry goods business. Shortly after his arrival, a prospector wanted to know what Mr. Strauss was selling. When Strauss told him he had rough canvas to use for tents and wagon covers, the prospector said, “You should have brought pants!,” saying he couldn’t find a pair of pants strong enough to last.
Denim Blue Jeans
Levi Strauss had the canvas made into waist overalls. Miners liked the pants, but complained that they tended to chafe. Levi Strauss substituted a twilled cotton cloth from France called “serge de Nimes.” The fabric later became known as denim and the pants were nicknamed blue jeans.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Awesome! I should have specified:)
You sure sent us on a chase. 🙄
@Diversity Gal
🙂
It takes a university study to show that illegal immigrants become fearful when a governmental entity decides to enforce the law against illegal immigration.? What’s next? A George Mason study showing that street muggers become apprehensive when police cars begin circulating through the neighborhood?
Ethnography is to me fine and dandy for collating history, but an inappropriate way to study or try to categorize current events.
“I deleted an obscene comment by Rick, it was simply inacceptable”
I thought, personally, that it was funny enough to get away with it! I got away with saying c**** earlier in the thread, which was pretty raw. Okay, I’ll try not to be quite so vulgar, just my usual level.
whatever, in Prince William County, most of our immigrants are hispanic. About 75% of the Latinos are from El Salvadore. The other largest company representation is Mexico with a small percent from Guatamala, Nicaragua and some of the South American countries.
It would stand to reason that anyone interested in doing an immigration study in the Manassas, Woodbridge or greater Prince William area, they would do a study on Latinos. I can’t possibly see why that would be racist. Not in a million years.
Rick,
Ethnography is a completely acceptable way to study current culture. By definition, you really have to study and experience what is currently going on with a group of people to understand them.
Wolverine, depending on who you ask, you will get all sorts of answers. The study very well could have been for in the field training purposes, for all I know. It hurts no one.
Thanks Rick. I was just going to snarl. You got the head Mama…she said NO.
Meanwhile, DG, thanks for setting us straight on ethnography. Elena and I are still stuck back on Levi Strauss making blue jeans. I knew there was a form of research that did what ethnography does…I just didn’t know its name.
Maybe the embedded reporters at the beginning of the Iraq War was an abreviated form of ethnography.
Moon, the principal finding of that study is the only logical answer to the question. If the study wasn’t a field training exercise, then it was a waste of tax payer money in a time when money, especially money for education, is tight. Do you or Elena or Alanna or anyone else closely associated with this blog believe that the conclusion furnished by the study could have possibly been any different?
A couple of things here: 1) you all are making HUGE assumptions that this so-called reporter reported about this accurately. If you go back to the GMU website, you’ll find that this is part II of a study about these communities. The first was done EXCLUSIVELY with American-born residents. If you google the researchers, you’ll find that they are extremely fair about how they’ve handled this, have said repeatedly that they can see how residents would be frustrated by the problems they’ve experienced secondary to immigration. Looking at the entire picture, I think you need to ask Ms. Chumley why she elected to make this research–which is pretty much a straightforward investigation of what people in the community are thinking after the ordinances–seem so controversial. What’s her agenda in all this?
2) you all assume that taxpayer money funded this research. However, if you read the release you’ll see that no sponsors are listed–not even the university are mentioned. This means that there is a very strong chance that these researchers were doing this on their own dime. I love the way you folks who despise taxes act as if everything that doesn’t fit your narrow political agenda is somehow a waste of your tax dollars. If you read the Washington Post even occasionally, you would know that the state has largely cut funding to our universities–GMU I think gets less than 20% of its operating budget from the state. The rest is made up with tuition, donations, etc. So, it is very likely that your meager tax dollars funded none of this.
Poor Richard, you say you want these researchers to “go away”? I was struck by the fact that Stewart was so defensive about their findings. Wasn’t the point of the ordinances an attempt to make Latinos feel unwelcome so they would leave? Why didn’t big man Corey just say, “yes, that’s what we intended” ?
If you have nothing to hide, why do you fear what they have or will discover about your community? I hope that more people come in and shine a light on what’s going on there. It’s obvious from some of your posts that there is a lot of racism, and in Rick’s case, sexism, in this community. What troubles me is that a few of you are so proud of it, and most of you don’t even call it out when you see it.
Poor Richard, you forget, two immigrants were murdered in the Weems neighborhood, one in front of Weems Elementary and one on Landgreen Street. The murderer lived in Weems and hid in Prince William County before he was caught and jailed. The other has never been caught. Hate literature was dropped on driveways along three streets — Landgreen, Jackson and Weems. These were all news articles at the time.
“you really have to study and experience what is currently going on with a group of people to understand them.”
As opposed to making a flippant comment about localized displacement explaining the way the majority of citizens feel, without taking to any of them.
PR, I don’t think we can wall off the city. Feelings don’t stop at the border. Perhaps there was even reason to go into the city as far as the study goes. I have not read the study. I honestly don’t think it matters.
Cindy makes some excellent points. Isolationism didn’t work for the United States either. Eventually you just get dragged in. We didn’t get to vote on that part. 😉
Wolverine, ethography is a respectable method of historical and sociological research. I just didn’t know its name. I actually agree with you as to knowing the outcome. However, anecdotal evidence can rarely be used in formal studies. People still need to be trained to do this type of research.
I understand that probably people might not like the results. Not liking the results should not be a factor. What other method of research could ferret out the same kind of information?
My main point of the thread was that we have county people making inappropriate remarks. I find it strange and disconcerting that another blog has chosen to attempt to destroy the credentials of those who were the research overseers.
Rick, they did talk to some. They talked to people in Westgate and the Weems neighborhood.
I honestly do not understand why this study is making people so angry. Did you expect hordes of happy Latinos after the resolution?
Cindy,
Of course I haven’t forgotten the murders. I don’t forget any of them
in Manassas. Do confess to being upset when crimes across western
Prince William County are reported as “in Manassas” when, in fact, they
are miles outside the city. That, to me, is sloppy inaccurate reporting.
As far as the GMU study, it is simply odd to read ” The goal according
to Cleaveland was to ‘understand the true experiences of Latino immigrants
living in a certain area of Prince William County.’ ” Then to find most
of their interviews were in Weems and Sumner Lake, both in the City of
Manassas.
I’m deeply disappointed with GMU over this study and other activities
that have little or no worth in helping our area cope with the impact
of massive influx of immigrants in the last decade. We need clear,
objective and unbiased studies that consider the concerns of all citizens.
–
Poor Richard,
Your reporting of Greg’s neighborhood is NOT accurate. The City has had its share of murders. You do remember Trooper Johhny Rush Bowman, don’t you? The City is not perfect, nor is the county.
Also, I read on bvbl that there’s some condo in your “shining city on the hill” that is over-assessed by the city, and sales/purchases aren’t going through like they should. What say you? I hope the City residents are aware of this. This has a dramatic impact on one’s ability to sell their property, and for a purchaser to get a loan.