Guest contributor George Harris gives us his unabashed opinion on the never-ending immigration debate. George never sugar coats things, nor is he soft on immigration.

[Disclaimer: guest opinions do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the blog administrators.]

Are you as tired of reading and hearing about immigration as I am? There is not an hour or a day that goes by without some talking head yammering on about illegal/undocumented immigrants. Newspapers, periodicals, television and radio bombard us with “news” about how we are being overrun by folks who have chosen to not follow the laws of this nation in order to be here legally. Congress is absolutely bumfuzzled about how to fix our “immigration problem.”

Depending on who you read or listen to, the illegal immigrant population is somewhere between 11 and 22 million. Pick whatever number between these two that you feel justifies your feelings about our present situation and you will be somewhere in the ballpark. Recommendations as to what to do about all these illegal immigrants range all the way from blanket amnesty for all of them with numerous paths to citizenship to ship all of them back “home.” While we are deciding on what to do with all the people already here, we want to put up a wall along the U.S.-Mexico border reminiscent of the Berlin Wall or the wall Israel is building to seal off the Palestinians. But many folks understand that you can’t build a wall high enough or long enough to keep people out if they are determined to come in. And it only seems to apply to our southern border. No one is talking about building a wall between the U.S. and Canada.

 

So, what are we to do? I keep thinking of those who want to send all the illegal/undocumented immigrants “home” and it reminds me of Adolph Hitler’s Final Solution for ridding Europe of the Jewish population. Not that we would gas and incinerate them, just load them into boxcars and ship them south to the border and get them back across the border, at gunpoint if necessary. And lets modify the Fourteenth Amendment to state that children born of parents (one or both) who are in the country illegally are not citizens of this country—nor more “anchor babies.” Oh, and lets tattoo all those we deport (again reminiscent of Nazi Germany) and if they return, they will be felons subject to long prison terms. Third or fourth offenders may be considered for life imprisonment or perhaps execution if found to have weapons or illegal drugs in their possession. Perhaps then we can get our message across.

Of course, these ideas are not the answer. This nation and its people must face this head on. We, as citizens, must demand that Congress pass the necessary laws to get our immigration under control. Passports, visas, Social Security cards and other documents used for entry and prolonged residency must have an infallible biometric marker. Verification of Social Security card information and the biometric data associated with it must me mandatory. Failure to verify the data will result in severe fines. And it is time to crack down on those who employ illegal/undocumented workers. Consideration should be given to consider including such hiring rules under the RICCO statutes. First and maybe second offenders receive stiff fines; third offenders lose their business license, fourth offenders go to jail. We also need to see what we can do to help the nations from which these immigrants are coming to find ways to improve the standard of living to the point that people don’t feel the need to come here.

We can’t build a wall high enough or deep enough or long enough to stop people from coming in. I find it interesting that we are not talking about building a wall across the northern border to keep all those damned Canadians out. And 10 guards per mile? Is that 24 hours a day, seven days a week or what? We can talk until we are blue in the face, but we can’t afford to have a “secure” no one gets through border. If we put a guard every three feet that would be 1,760 guards per mile or 3,520,000 guards for the entire 2000 miles–and that is just for the first shift! So maybe 12,000,000 might do the trick and that would allow for folks being sick and taking vacation, etc. So now we have as many guards as we do illegal immigrants!!! There is no easy answer and I am not sure people really want an answer. If we were to totally seal the border, where would we get our cheap, stoop labor? Could we ever bring back the bracero ogram?

We seem to be able to track a cow with possible mad cow disease from Canada to a farm here, but we can’t keep track of people with expired visas. How are we supposed to secure our borders if we can’t even do this?

Of course, we could declare war against Mexico

45 Thoughts to “Are you as tired of reading and hearing about immigration as I am?”

  1. Captain Idiot-Face

    Well, we could easily build a wall, but we won’t because the Democrats need millions of destitute, uneducated, and medically scary “undocumented Democrats” to remain relevant (once people wake from their slumber). One side won’t secure the border without total amnesty, but they don’t have the political nertz to get it done (it’s political suicide). The other side won’t discuss a complete amnesty knowing the libs have no intention of ever securing the border. So on it goes, and on it will continue to go. the RIGHT answer is what AZ is doing. Let those states with all that extra money to invite and live off of illegals. Those states that care about their future can pass laws like AZ. That’s what states are there for…to be unlike one another. Choices….it’s all about choices. So far, inviting illegals has worked out well financially for CA.

  2. You know, this really shouldn’t be a political issue. Whose fault was it from 2000-2008?

    Whose fault was it when the Republicans controlled the White House and both houses of Congress?
    YR Prez S H
    ____________________
    2001 Bush D R

    2003 Bush R R

    2005 Bush R R

    2007 Bush D D

    At not time has the Senate been strong one way or the other.

    To blame it on either the Democrats or Republicans is ridculous. How about both?!

    Arizona is going on some mighty shakey ground because of federal law. The probable cause is just a tricky thing and their document doesn’t exactly explain what determinants they are going to use for probable cause.

    However, that’s their problem. I am not going to wring my hands over that state. I will save my hand wringing over my county and state because some grand-stander is going to try to make a name for himself.

    We don’t have a border with a foreign country. That makes a huge difference.

    Meanwhile, I agree with George. I am tired of it consuming every minute. Corey needs to sit down and STFU. He is a supervisor. He has a job to do in our county. He needs to stop this nonsense. He needs to stop taking developer money for starters if he is truly serious about illegal immigration.

  3. marinm

    HAHHAHAHAHAHA.. I love that sign. My peoples!!

  4. Captain Idiot-Face

    @Moon-howler

    Whose fault was it from 2000-2008? Hmmm, let’s see. Bush and the “neo-cons” would be the correct answer, I believe.

  5. Captain Idiot-Face

    BTW, the comparison of the lawful deportation of law-breakers to the “final solution” is, always has been, and always will be, beneath contempt. For the life of me, I will never understand the illegal immigration apologists need to invoke the holocaust at every turn. My only hope is that liberals will always continue to trivialize the slaughter of millions of Jews (and others). People need to hear more and more of it!

  6. RingDangDoo

    >>> Are you as tired of reading and hearing about immigration as I am?

    Yes! So PLEASE stop with the same tired, old drivel!

  7. Second-Alamo

    God forbid we ask people for papers. Well guess what, each year both the federal and state governments ask me for papers. Plenty of papers, and they want to know who I am, where I live, how many kids I have, how much I earn, who paid me, the employer’s address, my address, how much tax I paid, how much interest I earned, my SSN, if I worked outside the country, etc., etc.
    So I don’t hold a lot of sympathy for someone who is simply asked to show an ID. Consider it your patriotic duty if it keeps this nation sovereign!

  8. Ring, you don’t get to choose the content here. In fact, if you don’t like our drivel, go elsewhere while it is still your choice. I am no longer nice to people either.

    Capt. -please spare us the tired old illegal apologist bs. In the first place, George isn’t soft of immigration.

    Some of the rhetoric I have heard uses the same language as was used with the Holocaust.

    When we talk about putting people on buses or on trains to move them out…well..you tell me.

  9. SA, in some ways you have a point. What happens though if you don’t have an ID for whatever reason, or if you ID says the wrong thing?

  10. Second-Alamo

    Oh well, if you know people will be checking, then it’s your responsibility to have your ID. That’s one huge problem, people aren’t held responsible for their own actions anymore. We get together and protest every rule or law that is created, because it ‘offends’ or ‘burdens’ some group more than others. Tough!

  11. Some folks don’t have an ID and they don’t really need it. For instance, a rider in a car doesn’t need an ID or a liscense. I am speaking in general now.

    City of Manassas sure requires one from riders.

  12. Elena

    George,

    I send you a big virtual hug! Great post! I just believe we have bigger fish to fry in this country and immigration is an easy distraction.

  13. Emma

    @Moon-howler Manassas Park, too. My kid was a passenger in a car with an 18-year-old driver. They were stopped because of a partially-obstructed rear tag on the friend’s car. The cop demanded my kid’s driver’s license, too. Not knowing any better that there was an option to refuse, my kid also submitted to a full pat-down and search while the cop mocked the two kids for being so nervous and fearful. Unbelievable. So you better have your papers ready in MP.

  14. Wolverine

    So, we should just stick our heads in the sand? I just heard Sen. Jon Kyl say that, in a private meeting with Obama, the President said that we will get no improved border security until we make concessions to him on comprehensive immigration reform. That’s just great. An American president blackmailing his own people on the issue of border security. To Hell with it. November 2010 cannot come quickly enough.

  15. Emma

    Illegal immigration wouldn’t even be an issue if our government bothered to enforce its own existing laws. It will be interesting to see how a federal lawsuit against AZ will play out, since AZ’s law is simply mirroring fed law. Obama’s stated refusal to address immigration reform in his first term, along with his threats and mockery of AZ, look like a great big middle finger stuck up at everyone who is concerned about this issue, and has only fed the fire even more.

  16. marinm

    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=127105843

    Heh, funny. I might be related to that lady. 🙂

    This 1st generation supports Arizona. But I don’t support showing ‘papers’ as it impacts my gun rights.

  17. Bear

    George as much as I enjoyed your post I’m afraid I agree with Elena…I just believe we have bigger fish to fry in this country and immigration is an easy distraction.

  18. I continue to wonder if a white, anglo saxon from anywhere in the world was stopped, would they be subjected to the same scruitiny as those who have a little more melanin in their skin. Regardless of the safeguards we may put into immigration laws that supposedly proscribe racial profiling–it will and does go on.

  19. Yes, Emma it is true that you child may have been able to refuse to produce identification but I suspect you might have had to go to the police department to pick up your child. And you may well have had reason to file a lawsuit since I suspect your child would have been slightly roughed up by the cops. Does that make it right? NO! But go right ahead and encourage your child to defy a request for an ID–you may make a little money along the way. And you will begin to teach your child to disrespect law enforcement officers. If you have a legitimate complaint regarding officer harrassment, you should take it to the police department but you better have some names at least–badge numbers would be nice.

  20. Wolverine

    Sorry, Bear, but illegal immigration in my community is NOT simply a “distraction” and has not been a “distraction” for a long time. It is not an issue which can be swept under the rug because we have other fish to fry. When Reagan signed off on amnesty in 1986 and then the Congress refused to honor a promise to attend to border security and reform the immigration process, we let more than 20 years slip under the bridge while we were “distracted” by other things. Now we are dealing with numbers which are astronomical in comparison with the estimated total of illegal immigrants in 1986. Let more time slip under that bridge while we are “distracted” only promises to leave us down the road with a problem that may not have a resolution other that having competing ethnicities at the throats of each other. And don’t you just love being a foil as the damned politicians play the ethnic vote game, pitting us against each other?

  21. I have never seen or undestood the issue of “showing your papers.” I spent over half my 77 years in the military and everywhere I went, I had to show my “papers.” Today, I have to show my “papers” to get medical care and so do most of the rest of us. What is the big deal?

    And Captain Idiot Face–what a great name–I in no way am intending to trivialize the Holocaust nor am I apologizing for illegal immigrants. I simply used the railroad car example to show how ridiculous people are who think we can simply send all these people “back home.” It took Nazi Germany 6 years to kill 8 million Jews and they went at it with great fervor. If we just applied the same amount of effort to simply transporting illegal/undocumented immigrants out of the country, how long do you think it would take us?

    You’re right Bear–we do have bigger fish to fry–illegal immigration and the brown skinned people who are identified with it are a very easy target–they don’t look like “us”. And they are easy to blame since they are illegal and have no recourse. I am not for illegal immigration, I think all immigrants should come in by the front door–but we have made it far too difficult.

    I strongly believe that we should go after the businesses that hire illegals–put failure to properly identify folks under the RICCO statutes–first offenders get a heavy fine, second offenders lose their business license for X months, third offenders lose their business license permanently. Beyond that they go to jail. If we get rid of the demand, the supply may look elsewhere.

  22. Wolverine

    Emma, I go along completely with George S. on this one. If a cop asks for ID, give it to him without argument. It makes everything go smoother and will probably temper any situation. Not long ago, Mrs. W and I were approached by a cop while we were actually in our marked Neighborhood Watch patrol car. The first thing he did was run our tag number and then ask for ID — from both of us. No problem. In fact, having been in that business, I would have been pissed if that cop had NOT insisted on ID. In my book, he would not have been doing the job he was being paid for. I don’t want the cops who work for me to resort to just guessing about whom they might have in front of them.

  23. marinm

    I disagree with the above posters in turning over your ID upon request by law enforcement. It’s at Emma or her son’s discretion if he wished to provide the document as he wasn’t compelled to do so under law.

    It’s not disrespect to asert your rights. It’s not admitting to guilt or trying to ‘hide’ something. It’s a citizen challanging a representative of the state to provide a compelling reason for the demand. I support Emma on this.

    Part of the officers job is of course to make a request for that ID but the part of the equation being lost here is that the officer understanding when he can demand it, when he can request it and when he can use deception to try and compel someone to comply.

    It’s a balance for sure but not one that I wish to tip to the state.

    As a citizen of this Commonwealth when I am not operating a motor vehicle I refuse ID requests, I vote by affirming my identity and when I fly I present my VA militia ID (I’m not driving so why see my drivers license?).

    Would the above posters like to throw out the 4th and 5th Amendments to because they might impact a police investigation? Where do we draw the line.

  24. As to the possibilities of a “white” person being stopped being similar to a “brown” person….no.

    Because we have overwhelming evidence that most illegal aliens are from Mexico and points south, especially in Texas and the the southwest, it would be silly to expect that. Just as it is just as silly to disregard that evidence and NOT check ID for the possibility because that would be “profiling.” Guess what? Everything is profiling. Its called discrimination. And no, that’s not a bad thing. Discrimination means choosing. And one chooses by the evidence gathered to make a decision/choice.

    Why is it so bad, that while we admit that most illegal aliens are from Mexico, we can’t use that very evidence? Its insane.

  25. Wolverine

    Marinm, you get asked for ID almost every day and in numerous ways. When I go to my own credit union on business, I get asked for two forms of ID, including a photo ID or no money. When I write a check in a store I get asked for ID or no payment by check. When I When I go to get a passport I get asked for definitive ID or no passport. When I go on a blog, I get asked for my e-mail address or no blogging. What the Hell is the big deal about helping a cop to do his job on your behalf? Yes, indeed, the cop knows that in many circumstances he cannot force you to show ID. But do you actually think that voluntarily helping your own peace officer to do the job for which you pay him is going to suddenly make the 4th and 5th amendments topple from the Constitution?

  26. Second-Alamo

    Marinm sounds like an old hippie from the 60’s. Damn the establishment any way you can, even if it is at your own detriment. Think of all the criminals that have been picked up because of traffic stops. I guess if the government doesn’t have the right to ask for ID, then they certainly can’t ask for my money! It’s all starting to sound so Mexicans Without Borders. They don’t want to show ID either.

  27. Emma

    @marinm My kid had done nothing wrong, was not even the driver of the car. The driver was not speeding, was driving a parent’s car that had a hitch or something on the back that partially obstructed the license tag. So there was no possible legal reason to demand my kid’s license and then look it up. And my kid is quite fair-skinned, very respectful and very shaken up by the entire first-ever encounter with the police. It would not have occurred to the kids to refuse an officer’s demand.

  28. Emma

    @George S. Harris What about Buck Carter, the VA state trooper who several years ago demanded sexual favors from females he stopped for DUI? Would you have considered it disrespectful if those women had refused to comply?

  29. Emma is touching on a subject very near and dear to my heart….Trooper Buck Carter who did not spend one day in jail for his crimes. Those women didn’t have a chance to refuse anything. And he did like them young.

    He got my son and I was in the car. He was rude and insulted me up one side and down the other. I didn’t report him. I am not sure to this day if he didn’t manufacture evidence against my son. He was evil and the state police were evil for allowing him to get by with the crimes he did. I refuse to give them a dime now and I tell them why. He preyed on young women outside of bars and followed them.

    Emma is right on this one. And, furthermore, the person I know who had to produce a license for the City was a grown woman who was a passenger in the car. She just did it. Bet she won’t do it again though.

    By the way, great discussion.

  30. marinm

    @Wolverine

    Wolverine, you cited multiple examples of an ID check made by a corporation. At that point it’s upto the individual if they want to go through with that transaction because it’s voluntary. I can simply walk away from such a transaction. In a police encounter I may be limited in my ability to voluntarily walk away.

    “What the Hell is the big deal about helping a cop to do his job on your behalf?” I am neither helping or hindering his ability to do his job. If I know my rights well enough to know when I must comply and when I can voluntarily comply do you really think I’m guilty of the crime that the officer is investigating? The officer that is currently investigating me is not doing so for my personal welfare he’s doing so to gather up enough evidence to make an arrest.

    It is VERY easy to waive 4th Amendment protections. Something as benign as leaving a car window open or not closing and locking your door may lead to a valid legal search.

    When we talk about the immigration debate there is much said about illegals following the law and the government not enforcing the law. Emma’s son would’ve been ‘following’ the law by refusing an ID check. So, whats the issue with the son saying, “Officer my name is John Smith of 123 Dale Blvd. I do not consent to any searches.”

    SA, I understand that your liberal leanings require a full deference to anyone with a badge of authority but as a conservative I believe that the People reserve many rights over the state. And in this case I believe in Emma’s son’s ability to tell an agent of the govt to pound sand.

    Emma, I hear you. It’s not anti-cop to exert your rights and stand your ground. Thats why high school civics courses are SO important. 🙂 I hope your son isn’t ‘afraid’ of the police as they serve a valid function in society but as a citizen it’s good to know the limits of there powers and of your rights.

    <– Not giving legal advice, your milage may vary.

  31. George S. Harris

    @Emma
    About as ridiculous as I can imagine Emma. I do not condone anything such as the incident you mention. Why would you even think I would?

  32. Formerly Anonymous

    Mr. Harris,

    I debated whether to respond or not to this post, but finally decided that I must tell you in no uncertain terms that whatever the merits of your argument, your method of delivery is poor and your initial post comes across as very petulant.

    First off, your equating of deporting people without legal reason to be here to the Nazi death camps is as offensive as it is inaccurate. Your argument is that deportation is just like the Holocaust/Shoah (except for the part about nobody being killed) is deeply flawed. By making the claim that because rail cars would be used in both cases (despite there being no evidence to suggest that would happen in any theoretical deportation) they are equivalent or even remotely similar is a very poor argument. Obviously, the distinguishing and horrifying characteristic of the Shoah was the systematic and cold blooded murder. The fact that box cars were used for most of the victims is incidental. Moreover, any comparison to the Shoah that is not directly related to genocide is highly disrespectful to the survivors and family of those lost. In other words, it is legitimate to compare the Shoah to what happened in Rwanda, but not to immigration, taxes, budget, or regular law enforcement.

    (Incidentally, it was over 11 million people murdered during the Shoah not 8 million, including 6.5 million Jews. The overwhelming majority of which were killed after the Wannsee conference in the final 2.5 years of the war. Also, more than one million were murdered by the Einsatzgruppen, mobile SS death squads. If you are going to make references to the Holocaust, at least get your basic historical facts right.)

    Secondly, you seem to have very little respect for the democratic process. The essential point of your initial post is “I’m sick of listening to all of you. Your opinions are wrong. We should do what I say.” In a democratic society, you don’t get to make that call. Neither do I. You can choose to which voices you want to listen to and debate with, but you don’t get to declare certain areas off-limits for discussion. (Naturally, Moon-howler can on her blog, but your argument was centered on the larger national stage.) No one can credibly claim that there is a national consensus on the immigration issue right now and it is undemocratic to try to make certain topics verboten. Whether we think changing the 14th Amendment is a good idea or not, having a debate about amending the Constitution is a legitimate topic of debate.

    Lastly, you have a tendency to create straw man arguments that you dismiss as ridiculous. Such as claiming people are advocating declaring war on Mexico. While I’m sure there is at least one person on the Internet advocating just that, I would like to see any evidence to suggest that anyone in a realistic position to influence public opinion is advocating a war with Mexico. If you want to debate opposing views, I would recommend debating the views that your opponents actually have, not made up ones.

    Please notice, that while I have been very critical of your rhetorical style, I have not commented on the merits of your idea. That is not by accident. By using such inflammatory comparisons and showing so little respect for people who may disagree with you, you make the argument about your delivery and not your message. I argee with a number of your points, but your tactics and rhetoric are so repugnant to me that I cannot bring myself to voice any support of you whatsoever. In essence, your rhetoical tactics here are very much like those of Sen. Joe McCarthy. As you are no doubt aware, “Tailgunner Joe” was correct in the essence of his initial argument (there were a significant number of Soviet agents in the State Dept.), but his methods and tactics were so reprehensible he lost all semblance of credibility.

  33. FA, we have been immersed in immigration topics since 2007. Much of the rhetoric we have heard has been strongly worded remarks about deportation. The one that stands out the most in my mind is Mrs. Hilda Barg relating the story of the man who wanted the illegal immigrants taken out in box cars.

    Those are images that you cannot forget. While no one is implying killing immigrants (that I am aware of), the image of cattle carring human beings is repugnant enough that it does need to be brought up. It reminds me of the dehumanizing ‘joke’ told on a neighborhing blog about humans being used for dog food.

    Perhaps Mr. Harris has seen and heard some of this talk. Please check out out our beginnings.

    https://www.moonhowlings.net/index.php/about/

  34. George S. Harris

    Well FA, all I can say is you have missed the whole point of what I am saying. If my numbers are wrong,they are wrong–that is not the point. The point is that there is no way we are going to rid ourselves of somewhere between 11 and 22 million illegal/undocumented immigrants even if we loaded all of them in boxcars and sent them “home”. May I recommend you look up the definition of ANALOGY or PARABLE. I repeat that it is not my intention to belittle, disrespect or any other term you want to use, all those who were lost in the Holocaust. As to my not having respect for the democratic process–I am not certain what you mean. I am sick and tired of all the yammering and if you want to believe I am picking on you–I guess that’s part of the “democratic process” whatever that is. I don’t really care if you are not pleased with what I have to say–remember the First Amendment–I don’t care if you agree with me–I have not asked you or anyone else to do so. I am stating MY opinion–still authorized in this country I believe. And if you can’t figure out that the comment about war with Mexico was said with tongue in cheek, I feel sorry for you. I would suggest that next time you see my name on something don’t read it–pretty simply, huh?

  35. George S. Harris

    @Formerly Anonymous
    P.S. FA– as long as we are tossing numbers around, how about the 13 to 15 million Russians and other Slavic people who were killed by the Nazis because they considered them sub-human? I guess they don’t count, huh?

  36. @ George, the droning goes on about im migration on tv. I want just one day without it. Glad Captain Sound-byte is not the center of attraction today also.

    When he shuts up, I shut up. That should be incentive, shouldn’t it?

  37. Perhaps Moon. But what if just one major broadcaster decided to stop talking about immigration or one major politician said, “Enough”. Would it stop? WE won’t know as long as folks keep rising to the bait. As for me, I’m done.

    1. No. If they all stopped, Corey would bring it back to life.

  38. Emma

    @Moon-howler Without going into too much detail, I sat in a courtroom and watched Buck Carter perjure himself on the witness stand after he got a good-old-boy greeting and some joking around by the judge. That was over 13 years ago, but the memory of that is as fresh and raw as if it happened yesterday afternoon.

    1. I am still enraged over the things he said to me and also the fact that he never spent 1 nano-second in jail.

      I share your rage. There was nothing funny about Buck Carter. Is he still around?

  39. Emma

    He was sentenced by Rossi Alston, the same creative genius who decided that an appropriate sentence for a man who leaves his baby to die in a hot van should only get one day a year in jail and have to run an annual blood drive. Carter got community service and was supposed to spend two days in jail per year for a few years or something ridiculous like that.

    Thinking about Carter isn’t good for my blood pressure.

    1. Grrrrr! I don’ t think he spent any time in jail. I wouldn’t swear to it. He violated and betrayed public trust. I think 5 years in the general population would have been a good sentence.

      I don’t feel quite as evil about Mr. Kelly. He at least didn’t intentionally do that. He just had too many kids to be able to find his butt with both hands.

  40. Emma

    Agreed that Kelly didn’t have evil intent, just an almost morally reprehensible penchant for procreating more kids than he could safely manage. I just have issues with Alston’s history of “creative” sentencing, especially for a lying sack of human excrement like Carter.

  41. Totally and completely agree with everything you just said, Emma. 100%.

    And I will add that Carter should have done jail time and not just weekend. He violated public trust on a level that just is unconscionable. His actions were illegal, immoral, and befouled the entire agency for whom he worked, the Virginia State Police.

Comments are closed.