Sheriff Tony Estrada has four decades of law enforcement experience under his belt, including 25 years with the Santa Cruz County Sheriffs Department. He is serving his 5th term as Santa Cruz County Sheriff, now in his 18th year.
How can 2 people tell such vastly different stories?
Wish more people would listen to what law enforcement has to say.
Just listen to him. He considers those across the border as family. Come on, does the name Estrada mean anything to you? Of course he doesn’t want to do anything against his extended Hispanic ‘family’. It would be interesting to know how those crossing the border illegally are dealt with by him and the rest of his police force. Some how I get the feeling he is more sympathetic to the Hispanic people than to the American citizens that pay his salary. Lets put a fox in charge of the hen house, and see what happens!
Ah, Cindy you hit the nail on the head! These folks are hired to ENFORCE THE LAW, hence law enforcement. That’s it in a nutshell. They don’t get to pick and choose which laws to enforce, nor do they get to choose who to enforce them against. If they don’t like their job, then they should find another. Neither of the following is correct: Oh, I see you’re Hispanic, may I see your papers. Oh, I see you’re Hispanic, here’s your free pass.
My comment was more along the lines of Ron Later’s letter to the editor in today’s News & Messenger. Here’s part of it:
“It is my understanding that crime in the county had been decreasing before the implementation of the immigration policy and continues to decrease due to good police work. A key factor in this success story is continued community involvement and support based on trust and cooperation. I also understand that illegal immigrants account for less than 8 percent of the arrests.
I believe that within the last 12 months, the PWC police chief wrote an article that supports my understanding. If I’m wrong, I ask him to educate the public and to outline what support he needs. He and his officers are on the front line and know firsthand the consequences of the existing PWC immigration policy. We need their feedback.
If we are to continue to make progress in crime reduction, then we need to know the real issues; not those slanted by politics.”
So Jan Brewer is more believable than Tony Estrada?
The person who wants to be elected governor and who is sitting up in Phoenix with her entourage of reporters and staffers knows more than the person who is down on the front lines? All because he has a Spanish surname?
I am speechless.
How can crime be going down if the influx of ILLEGAL aliens is increasing?
Yes, I know. He meant “real” crime. But….just sayin’…….
Aside from the fact that there’s no factual support for the bald assertion that Sheriff Estrada is disloyal to “the American people that pay his salary,” it’s a fundamentally false statement. He’s a county Sheriff paid from the county budget, and his duty is to the citizens of his county. The fact that he’s in his fifth term in office would suggest the people who really do pay his salary are satisfied with his judgment and his performance in office.
The assertion “they don’t get to pick and choose which laws to enforce, nor do they get to choose who to enforce them against,” ignores reality, too. A number of federal judges from all ends of the spectrum as well as several former members of the Bush administration have found that some detainees were tortured yet there has been no effort to enforce the Convention Against Torture or the Torture Statute. Is that not an abrogation of the rule of law and selective enforcement? Or drive on I-66 and look at how many State Troopers you see and how many people blow past exceeding the speed limit without getting a ticket. There aren’t enough troopers to apprehend every speeder and if they tried it would tie up traffic worse than it already is and overwhelm the judicial system. Instead, troopers exercise some level of discretion, which means they selectively enforce the law. I think “they don’t get to pick and choose” reflects an argument that they don’t get to pick and choose when it’s an issue in which Second-Alamo has an interest; kind of like how an “activist judge” tends to be the one that doesn’t share your particular point of view.
Finally, where do you draw the line on bigotry and prejudice? Second-Alamo claims Sheriff Estrada is more loyal to Hispanics than to American citizens and American laws because of his Hispanic heritage. Six of eight members of the Prince William Board of County Supervisors are Catholic and represent constituents that overwhelmingly are not Catholic. Would S-A assert that the BOCS is more loyal to the Vatican than the PWC voters? If not, why? Your argument is that heritage shapes how public officials behave, so which traits do you include in your list of things that taint judgment, or this an area where you selectively apply bigotry?
@cindy b
>>>Wish more people would listen to what law enforcement has to say.
Absolutely. Like Sheriff Arpaio of Maricopa County, Arizona.
I say again, listen to the first several minutes of the video where he refers to both communities on opposite sides of the border as being one and the same. You’re trying to tell me that he is truly dead set against ‘those’ folks crossing ‘that’ border, and would do everything in his power to stop them? I don’t think so. For example, many Italians still won’t admit there ever was a mafia, and so you draw the conclusions. Sometimes blood is thicker than law, hence laws may get overlooked at times. Just saying!
So MD, you are only critical of those in your own ethnic group you are saying, for to be critical of another ethnic group would make you a bigot by your definition. Ok, fine, I admit that I don’t agree with some of the characteristic traits of certain nationalities. You know, the observed general actions from which stereotypes are generated. Sorry, that’s my right as much as it is my right to find fault with a neighbor who does something that annoys me. Don’t tell me that I must embrace all other ethnic groups while only being allowed to find fault with those in mine. Call it bigotry or whatever you please, but I call it human nature. Birds of a feather flock together and all that. So what did you think of the recent BET awards? Now that wasn’t bigoted was it? Of course not for only whites can be bigots!
This debate goes on and on. Year after year.
Am I wrong in thinking that, regardless of how the minority of Americans feels about it, our elected officials who deliberately don’t fund border security measures and don’t enable workplace enforcement mechanisms are derelict in their duty? Particularly a Presdient who swore to uphold our laws and now rather obviously doesn’t want to unless he can negotiate a “comprehensive” solution.
How is there any room for negotiation on anything at this point? The people who run the country won’t play fair. Entrust them to enact YET ANOTHER “comprehgensive” solution? No way! Manwhile we can all talk about this until we’re blue in the face. There’s one way forward and dammit someday we will move forwartd on this issue when we have real leadership in this country.
“These folks are hired to ENFORCE THE LAW, hence law enforcement. ”
Exactly. That’s why Charlie Deane should be fired.
I am not just critical of those in my own ethnic group, I’m critical of jackasses. I’ve never found that jackassedness is limited to a single ethnic group, or religion, or gender, or age, or pick your choice of demographics. It’s a state of mind, or probably more accurately a narrowness of mind, that makes one a bigot. I don’t buy the “birds of a feather” stereotyping that infers the name Estrada predisposes the Sheriff to act one way or another. Take someone like Humbert Roque Versace. Does the name Versace mean anything to you? He was Hispanic and from Albuquerque, New Mexico. He’s buried at Arlington National Cemetery. His family accepted the Congressional Medal of Honor on his behalf from President George W. Bush in 2002. I’d include MOH winner James Anderson, who was black, who threw himself on a grenade and saved the lives of his fellow soldiers without regard to their races or the origins of their last names. I’d include Senator Daniel Inouye, who is Asian, who won the MOH and lost an arm in WW II. Thanks to sacrifices of people like that – genuine Patriots – others can sit comfortably at home and hide behind pseudonyms and say that when it comes to stereotyping, “that’s my right.”
How interesting that this sheriff does not see illegal immigrants as a factor in his local crime rates. How can Nogales be so different from my own community thousands of miles away? As I posted here prevously, our Neighborhood Watch is a non-discriminatory operation. Skin color or national origin makes no difference when we report wrongdoing. Yet I can point to my own records to show that, in a community which is about 40 % Hispanic immigrant, approximately 8 in 10 cases of violation of law and/or HOA rules dealt with by our NW have been within that ethnic group. And I have volume after volume of written reports to back up that statement. Moreover, the quantum jump in police patrols and activity, including the various anti-gang task forces, came only after a distinct spike in the crime rates coinciding with a big jump in the immigration population in the community. Well, all I can figure then is that the portion of the immigrant community with a penchant for ignoring the law and the rules must pass right through Nogales and keep on going north and east. Must be nice for that sheriff. And Morris, I hope you understand that, given the above, I am not sitting at home comfortably and engaging in stereotyping.
I see you selectively paraphrased the last sentence of my comment and skipped over the hiding behind a pseudonym part, but hey, it’s your right to hide. You say you are pointing at your own records, so why not post them so everyone can see the data? I don’t know that loose estimates unsupported by objective data posted on the internet by a person who is anonymous is much of foundation for setting policy.
Well Morris, you can come here only to bash us bloggers, or you can offer a solution to the problem. Somehow I feel you don’t think there is a problem to begin with. What say you? BTW, free speech is for all not just those who trash people they don’t even know. Now what was that word you used, jaskassedness, yes that was it…….hmmmmmm.
Sorry if you don’t believe me, Morris. Gotta shake my head though when a guy who was once a military prosector suggests that private Neighborhood Watch communications with law enforcement should be posted on the internet. Brilliant suggestion, counselor.
Mo–you are on the right track and as I say, Never wrestle with a pig, you just get dirty and the pig enjoys it. I don’t know if Wolverine lives in Prince William County, but facts and figures in current county crime reports don’t support his allegations. Interestingly enough, crime by illegals make up only 6% of our problems and most of those crimes are related to traffic violations. Yes, yes, I know SA , Rick and Wolverine–they are here illegally and that in itself is a “crime”–a misdemeanor BTW. But has been written on here before by others–what is the definition of “CRIME”? As MD points out, police selectively DON’T prosecute certain “CRIMES” because there are more serious “CRIMES” to prosecute. City, County, State and Federal prosecutors don’t prosecute ALL “CRIMES”, rather they pick and chose and more likely than not strike plea bargains to save the taxpayers time and money.
I would also say that the people of Santa Cruz County probably don’t pay one heck of a lot of attention to ridiculous HOA “crimes”–much more important things to do. And unless Sheriff Estrada is out and out lying, Santa Cruz County has a lower–much lower homocide rate that even the city of Manassas Park, much less Prince William County.
Yes SA, Rick and Wolverine (although he denies any stereotyping), bigotry and stereotyping are your “right”–I’m just glad you don’t live near me when my black son-in-law or mixed race grandchildren are visiting. So you look over your shoulder when you use some ethnic slur to describe the people you are talking about? I suspect you do–the first true sign of a bigot.
Again, I have asked a question that everyone choses to ignore. Who should we believe? The guy out there where the rubber meets the road or the woman who wants to be re-elected?
Just reading the comments, I know what the answer will be and that’s too bad because the answers are coated with everyone’s own feeling on the issue as they know it.
Jackassedness is a great word. It sounds like one of those words that is born out of one of those contests. I have no idea what they would give as a prize.
Rick, Chief Deane did everything he was directed to do. There is no reason to ask for him to be fired other than you listened to too many black velvet lies. You are too smart to fall for that.
Wolverine does not live in Prince William County. He lives in nearby Loudoun County and has stated that here so I am not giving away information. He has worked several years in a neighborhood watch group that he was instrumental in founding, if I am not mistaken. The NW is for his community.
I have have always known Wolverine to look at behavior rather than ethnicity on this blog.
However, there have been some remarks made here about ethnicty today, not by him, that are being challenged.
Unless I’m mistaken, Sherriffs in Az. are elected, just like Sherriff Joe. If Sherriff Estrada has served 5 terms, it appears that the residents of Santa Cruz County approve of his work. If not, they can always throw him out at the next election.
Sheriff Joe is Maricopa County? That doesn’t appear to be a border county, from the map above. Glad I included it.
There is an attempt being made to roll all issues we have with the Mexican border into one package. There are so many different issue. Border issues, border crossings, border towns, border violence, illegal immigration, undocumented workers, illegal crossings vs overstaying one’s visa, drug cartels in Mexico, drug cartels in general…..these are not items that necessarily have one fix. Surely SB 1070 is not the silver bullet for all these issues. In fact, I don’t see what SB 1070 has to do with any border violence or drug cartel issue. There are laws on the books, as Sheriff Estrada says to handle those problems.
1 hour of training? Our 287g officers had to have hours upon hours more training than that.
Btw, did everyone watch the video or just comment? Judging from some of the comments I have read, the later is true. It really is an insightful interview and I learned a great deal during it.
Ok, George and Morris, listen to what I’m saying and stop with the name calling. I’m trying to make the point that people should be allowed to discuss dislikes with or about people of other ethnic backgrounds without all the ‘bigot’ labeling. Am I to believe that you both have never had any differences with other people in your lives? Come on, get real. What I’m saying is that just because someone is from a different ethnic group doesn’t mean that I can no longer find fault. Simple as that. Our insanely PC world has made it so that at the first sign of criticism you immediately label the person a ‘bigot’ for simply stating that there may be a dislike of one characteristic or another. Not the group as a people, but only a certain characteristic of the group. How is that not allowed, yet I could voice hundreds of faults about my group and no one gets upset.
BTW George, unless you can prove I’ve ever uttered an ethnic slur, then you better keep that comment to yourself. I don’t play those games.
George, I would be happy to encounter your mixed-race family and would feel right comfortable in doing so. That would give me a chance to introduce you to my Hispanic immigrant son-in-law and my half-Hispanic grandchildren, not to mention my Black grandson and my Brazilian granddaughter, both adopted. Is that enough for you, Captain, or will you still insist on calling me a bigot? George, my friend, there are times when you really surprise me. That’s nasty stuff you threw at me without any knowledge at all.
By the way, George, my stats are garnered by actually working the streets, just like I used to do when I was one of those guys who had to track down the type of individual Morris prosecuted at Gitmo. Which might explain for Morris why I post under a pseudo. Anyway, definitely not the watching-from-the-window type of NW around here. Actually, our crime stats are down now also. Took a lot of hard work, mind you. You might imagine their surprise when malefactors have been spotted by someone who recognizes instantly the street tradecraft they try to employ. Kind of fun in a way. Brings back a lot of memories, especially of that police force I was a part of where everyone was Black but me. I kind of like to think that those chaps on the that Numero Uno detective squad would be proud of the old man yet.
@Moon-howler
M.H. You deserve an answer to your question, The Sheriff is saying he is not equipped to handle the increased responsibility that comes with the new law. Regardless of the indignation of the “various flavor bigots”, you can’t pass a law without giving the enforcers the assets and training required.(obviously you can but it’s not fair). I don’t know what’s in the Sheriff’s mind (unlike some of the previous bloggers) but to me he just sounds like he’s trying to do a good job and this new law will make it more difficult, if not impossible
SA, you are entitled to think and say what you please. However, your comment in #2 was laden with ethnic overtones. When we make remarks like that…..you have to know some people will challenge you. That too, is human nature.
Bear, thanks. When I balance what Estrada is trying to do with what Brewer is trying to do….it seems so obvious.
Ok, I just thought of an example that may clarify things a bit. Lets say there is an ethnic group other than mine that has the characteristic, be it customs or whatever, that they treat women as slaves. Even though most people would find that unacceptable I dare not voice my opinion for fear of being labeled a bigot simply because I’m of a different ethnic group? Something is wrong with this PC dogma that focuses more on who made the statement than what the statement was about! Now days they sometimes refer to it as the race card I believe.
S.A. You most certainly have a right to express your opinion. But people not agreeing with your opinion doesn’t make them automatically wrong (even if they are not on Your ethnic group)!
MH, #2 wasn’t laden it was the point. He stated that the majority of those in his town are Hispanic. Where do you think they came from? They came from the other side of the border most likely. I can’t imaging that a predominantly Hispanic town would reelect a Sheriff that was tough on illegal immigrants, and certainly not 5 times in a row. So when I insinuate that he may not be the best person to prevent illegal immigration (the fox in the hen house analogy) perhaps you can understand why. I have no clue why all this bigot talk came out of that simple analysis, but frankly it’s a waste of time.
@Moon-howler
Again, I have asked a question that everyone choses to ignore. Who should be believe? The guy out there where the rubber meets the road or the woman who wants to be re-elected?
You show your well-known bias when you refer to the Chief Executive of the State of Arizona as just a “woman who wants to be elected.”
Our sheriff had somewhat the same attitude as Estrada at one time. Not enough deputies. Not enough training. Not enough funding. Takes too much time away from other crime fighting. The problem may be a tad exaggerated. Federal responsibility. In essence, the whole ball of wax. But things did change. No PWC-style “Resolution” No Arizona-style law. Just the citizen-voters exploding in anger at the obvious crime in their neighborhoods. About the time when gangbangers tried to put the arm on my son-in-law just a block from my own home, with Anglos like me being the specific target, is when I decided to strap on the gear once more. I’m a lot happier now about the situation — still vigilant but happier none the less. Will probably even vote for that sheriff next time around.
Also, the Sheriff just wants to be re-elected.
Now, in his case, the situation appears to be this. His priorities are to handle “real crime”. His community probably is just one large cross-border family. Those people are not the problem. They are just associating with family and community. Sometimes arbitrary borders do cut through communities, like it does through some of the Indian communities down there.
The illegal aliens are not STAYING in his county. There is only about 40,000 people in the entire county. The only town is Nogales. The income runs about $25K. Very rural. Very Hispanic. However, enforcement of immigration laws is necessary. He doesn’t want to rock the boat because his priorities are different than the Governor’s. The new law WILL make his job harder. Sorry. Do it anyway.
When the immigration laws are ignored on such a large scale, the “invaders” feel that they belong wherever they go. The lax immigration law is part of why La Raza, etc can get away with their BS about the Southwest being their land. Illegal aliens are squatters. And if you don’t stop squatters, they actually do start having “rights” to where they live.
I have no problem criticizing conduct regardless of who commits it, but I do think it’s wrong to attribute the conduct to an entire race, or gender, or religion; that’s how internment camps came to be during WWII. If you single out Estrada’s last name and infer from that do you do the same to former Attorney General Alberto Gonzalez? I met journalist Andrew Lubin down at Guantanamo Bay when I was chief prosecutor for the terrorism trials back in 2006 or 2007. He’s just returned in the past week or so from being imbedded with a Marine Corps unit in Afghanistan and he posted a 4th of July article that touches on immigration. It’s available at http://kitchendispatch.blogspot.com/2010/07/special-guest-andrew-lubin-our-234th.html I don’t have a 5-point plan on how to deal with immigration — Republican Mayor Michael Bloomberg said this week that there needs to be a way for those in the US to stay — but I believe it is unrealistic to believe we have the ability to swoop in, apprehend, and detain 12 million people and transport them all out of the country.
On second thought, why is this going to make his job harder? He’s only going to be questioning those that his deputies will be stopping for OTHER reasons. The reason that he says his job will be harder is that his community will not cooperate. That sounds like a PR problem. How will picking up an illegal alien on a stop caused by suspicion of wrong doing prevent others from reporting crime? Is he saying that people would rather live in fear of violence than report it so that the ONE DOING THE CRIME isn’t arrested. The law does not state that witnesses or complainants will be questioned, only those being questioned for other reasons.
I hope you guys get my meaning. I’m having a hard time spelling it out.
@Morris Davis Well said, sir.
Just because Maricopa isn’t “on the border”, doesn’t mean that its immune.
Thousands of acres are closed to Americans because of illegal activity.
The closed off area includes part of the Buenos Aires National Wildlife Refuge that stretches along the U.S.-Mexico border.
Pinal County Sheriff Paul Babeu told Fox News that violence against law enforcement officers and U.S. citizens has increased in the past four months, forcing officers on an 80 mile stretch of Arizona land north of the Mexico border off-limits to Americans.
The refuge had been adversely affected by the increase in drug smugglers, illegal activity and surveillance, which made it dangerous for Americans to visit.
“The situation in this zone has reached a point where continued public use of the area is not prudent,” said refuge manager Mitch Ellis.
The Sheriff of Santa Cruz county may not be having increased crime due to illegal aliens because his county may not be a good route into the country.
“Yes, yes, I know SA , Rick and Wolverine–they are here illegally and that in itself is a “crime”–a misdemeanor BTW. But has been written on here before by others–what is the definition of “CRIME”? ”
To me there is an inherent issue with ever rewarding people for breaking the rule. It only encourages more people to break rules. So, I hold that no Amnesty is sensible. Rules, laws, crimes – we can’t just ignore them for convenience.
And at the same time with the borders wide open and bad crimninals having total freedom of movement, it’s inherently unsafe for our community to let people waltz around illegally, even if most illegal immigrants are not a threat.
“Yes SA, Rick and Wolverine (although he denies any stereotyping), bigotry and stereotyping are your “right”–I’m just glad you don’t live near me when my black son-in-law or mixed race grandchildren are visiting. ”
My family’s black – so I win this contest “I know more black people than you do”.
Have I said anything bigoted or steotyped recently? Don;t think that I have.
This needs to be mentioned as well – PWC is largely “non-white”. If one was a (white) bigot, this would hardly be the place to live. There seems to be this prevalent and nonsensical vision on the part of some people (like the young woman I heartd claim that militias in PWC were trying to keep Latinos out of 7-11s) to pretend that PWC is or has been mostly white. This isn’t anything near reality.
SA was inartful here and there in expressing his? point of view, but I agree with most of what he said. (Though I would encourage him to embrace all cultures, if not all of their characteristics).
Politics, increasingly, is race-based. The Democratic Party, increasingly (and this was very very obvious as far back as the 2000 Presidential campaign) seeks very much to fracture our country to mine the black and Latino population for votes. Our President is absolutely exploiting race and exploiting stereotypes for political gain, in a way that I’ve not seen a Presdient do in my adult lifetime. Absolutely.
Against that backdrop, to try to say to SA that he shouldn’t doubt that the Sherriff on a majority-Latino town is probably biased is kind of laughable. Let’s not miss the big picture. Both our “major” political parties play racial identity poltics every day. Particularly the Democartic side.
(That’s apart from the other issue of the Presdient’s anti-white bias evident in the Gates/Crowley affair, and in the dismissal of the Black Panthers intimidating voters – have you seen this video? – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neGbKHyGuHU)
(I don’t know what to do about that issue, it seems to me just a reflection of what a bad Presdient Obama is, how unable to handle the job he is, that he would so injudiciously comment against law enforcement in a matter he wasn’t informed of, and that he would dismiss a textbook case of voter intimidation because it didn’t fit in with his worldview. He has the right to be a bad President, and he’s being one).
[Rick….Moon here….I think we should be discussing the panther situation and I keep forgetting…remind me. I just want it under its own thread.]
For someone who was supposedly denied an end-of-tour medal for resigning and speaking out against practices at Guantanamo, you should understand why people would want to discuss issues anonymously. McChrystal was recently forced to resign for openly expressing a critical opinion of the president. There is a time and place to fall on your sword, but a blog discussion does not necessarily qualify.
I would like to point out that Wolverine has always been reasonable, accurate, and gentlemanly. Perhaps you can learn from him …..
Morris, that was a good link in #34. Having taken up genealogy as a retirement hobby, Lubin’s words certainly resonated with me. I fully agree that you never slander an entire race for the deeds of a part of them. No argument there.
The problem I have had over the past few years with Neighborhood Watch is not so much the illegality of presence in this country as much as it is the number of those present who seem to have a disdain for the rules by which we govern our society, our communities, and, yes, George S. even our HOA’s. What I saw was a disdain for and an ignoring of the laws and rules which was starting to turned an ordered quality of life into semi-chaos. Moreover, it was that semi-chaos itself which, if continued, could well start the actual fires of racial bias.
Now, there is certainly a part of the law breaking which is a direct result of the original infraction of illegal residence — the need to get around while undocumented; the need to find a job in a society where that is officially against the law, etc. But what really frustrated me was a tendency to break laws and rules which could not be classified as absolutely necessary for survival in the shadows. In my view, any person operating outside the law with regard to immigration status should be smart enough not to draw attention to himself by breaking laws and rules which do not have to be broken for him to survive. My frustration came in seeing these immigrants do this kind of thing over and over again.
Aside from the first priority of tracking and reporting of serious criminal activity, we have had to engage the immigrant community head on with regard to repeated behavior which was beginning to damage the entire aura of the neighborhood and the community at large. Not only were long-time residents selling out and leaving in fear and disgust but we were getting a reputation as a place to which you did not want to visit, much less buy a home. Crime plus a degraded quality of life was doing a double whammy on this community. That is, until the pot really boiled over in the form of an angry citizenry — or at least those citizens and legal immigrants who had elected to stay and fight.
When I report something on this blog, you can be assured that I am reporting on what I have seen and recorded and what I have worked so damned hard to fight against. I will not slander an entire race . But I will not hesitate to point out that, in the cases in which I have been involved, 8 out of 10 have involved recent Hispanic immigrants. That is my experience up close and personal. It is not the result of racism. What really ticks me off is the tendency of some to take any criticism of the behavior of certain members of a particular ethnic group as a general condemnation of that ethnic group. That is, in my opinion, nothing but the use of scolding from a politically correct standpoint to avoid hearing the truth.
When this thing was at its worst in my community, my Hispanic immigrant son-in-law asked to speak to me privately. He told me that he and my daughter feared for the lives of myself and my wife. He had come from a society filled with violence and political unrest. He told me flat out that, in his judgement, if we did not sell out and leave, we would regret it because we could well wind up living in a “barrio.” I told him that fleeing was not an option — had never been an option ever in my life. So we stayed and fought back, largely because we had the experience and knowledge of how to fight effectively. And a lot of our neighbors of varied ethnicities took heart at that and decided to stay on themselves. We are not about to quit. Nor we will we stop telling the truth as we see it simply because someone else prefers not to hear it.
SA, you are failing to recognize that there are people, especially those living in the west and southwest, that might have Spanish last names but who have lived as Americans for generations.
This is just an area where you cannot and should not broadbrush. The fact that Sheriff Estrada has a Spanish surname should really have nothing to do with what he says or his veracity. The fact that Governor Bill Richardson has an Anglo last night should really not detract from what he says about immigration because his mother was Mexican.
First off, would you have been happier if I called her ‘lying bitch’ rather than ‘woman who wants to be elected?’ Didn’t think so.
So now which of my well-known biases are your referring to? Am I being biased against women, Arizonans, Anglos, women seeking office, or perhaps legislation I don’t think is a good idea? Why is it that when I have political thoughts, I am biased, and when you have them, they aren’t biased? Don’t you even see your hypocrisy?
Seems to me Brewer is fighting for the safety of her people. Seems to me she’s one of the more honorable characters in this saga.
I suppose all of us should walk a mile in the shoes of the people of Arizona.
Wolverine-I have some problems with your comment in #24:
“By the way, George, my stats are garnered by actually working the streets, just like I used to do when I was one of those guys who had to track down the type of individual Morris prosecuted at Gitmo.”
Of all the people who post on here, I would say Moe Davis has the best reason in the world to hide behind a pseudonym, but he has chosen not to do so. Say what you want about your “stats”, but Moe faced these guys head on, day to day. Maybe he used a pseudonym while at Gitmo.
Who do we believe Moon? Perhaps both–Governor Brewer believes she is doing what is best for the people of Arizona although I doubt the law will stand the judicial test. What it does do is continue to raise awareness of a problem that just cannot be swept under the rug.
As to Sheriff Estrada–I suppose there must be stats available to support his claim about crime in Santa Cruz County. As to the flow of people back and forth across the border, I suggest folks go up north and they will see a very similar thing between us and the Canadians; however the drug trade might (and I say might) be a different issue. But as I have already noted, I doubt that Sheriff Estrada worries about HOA “crimes” etc. I purposely don’t live in an area with an HOA because I don’t want nosey people telling me how I will live on my own property. If your county doesn’t have laws governing how property should be taken care of, I suggest you spend some energy making that happen. We have them in PWC and they are used. Concerned citizens duly report offenses and the county enforces it laws.
Moe is right–we will never be able to deport all the illegal/undocumented people who are here unless we wish to resort to something very close to ethnic cleansing or what was done during the Holocaust. So, we must find a way to bring them into the fold, and make them legitimate, tax paying citizens. If they can live without fear of reprisal, they will help solve some of the crime since a good deal of it is crime against themselves.
After knowing what Corey Stewart did here regarding regarding little laws created by FAIR it is hard for me to think Brewer has that honest of intentions, right before an election.
I see someone capitalizing on the emotionalism of the Immigration Issue. Apparently so does Fox News.:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/06/10/immigration-law-breathes-life-brewers-election-campaign/
After what I have seen in my own county, far away from the Mexican border, it would take a great deal to convince me that this woman, who has been caught in several exaggerations of the truth, isn’t using this usual to get re-elected. Corey Junior.
And Ring, you are right, I have no respect for her. She isn’t my governor and I wouldn’t vote for her. Calling someone a woman isn’t disrespectful. Maybe you had better think about how you have spoken of the President of the United States on this blog.
This isn’t a binary situation. Simple answers don’t do it justice.
Let me make this clear (again), I work with people from all over the world on a daily basis, judge others only by their character not their skin color or dialect. We collectively have discussed illegal immigration from south of the border, and they are as angered by the situation as I am and even more so. More so, because most are naturalized citizens who have spend huge amounts of time and money to be able to relocate their families to this country while the border crossers just walk on in and then get support from a lot of people for doing so. If you have any sense of fairness, then that alone should make the argument against illegal immigration valid.