Yesterday July 3, 2010, , the Washington Post printed an editorial entitled: In Prince William County, a call for a tough immigration law. The editorial castigates the chairman of the board of supervisors and his ilk for being an opportunist.
ARIZONA’S SPASM of xenophobia has inspired copycats as well as critics around the country, a disparate response that reflects Americans’ ambivalence toward illegal immigration. In a Washington Post-ABC poll last month, a majority of respondents said they favored the Arizona law, which allows police broad discretion to check the residency status of people — “your papers, please!” — based on an arbitrary “suspicion” that they may be undocumented. At the same time, a majority in the poll said they favored amnesty for the estimated 11 million immigrants living in this country illegally — that is, allowing them to remain in the county, shift to legal status and eventually become eligible for citizenship if they pay a fine and meet other requirements.
That ambivalence, and the political impasse around immigration reform, framed President Obama’s speech on the issue Thursday — his first since becoming president. The president accurately diagnosed the political dimensions of problem: that mending the nation’s broken immigration system is stalled in the absence of Republican support in the Senate. Unfortunately, he offered no new ideas to fix the system. His speech, prompted mainly by immigrants’ groups unhappy with his administration’s inaction, seemed more an attempt to keep Hispanic voters within the Democratic coalition than to inject new life into a moribund debate.
With Congress incapable of acting, other states are now likely to come under increasing pressure to do what Arizona has done.
A test case may be developing in Virginia, where a local politician who has ridden the wave of sentiment against undocumented immigrants wants to push the issue even more. Corey A. Stewart, the top elected official in Prince William County, has proposed a legislative agenda that takes Arizona’s law as its template but goes further. Mr. Stewart, a Republican who faces reelection next year, has proposed what he calls the “Virginia Rule of Law Campaign,” a package of legislation that, among other measures, would authorize police to ascertain the immigration status of any individual upon “any lawful contact.” If that’s not an invitation to racial profiling and harassment-on-a-whim, nothing is.
Mr. Stewart, chairman of the county Board of Supervisors, was the driving force behind Prince William’s crackdown on undocumented immigrants in 2007, which bred intolerance in the previously relatively harmonious county. The law he sponsored requires the county police to determine the immigration status of suspects upon arrest. Its passage, and bluster from Mr. Stewart and his allies, prompted some illegal immigrants to leave the county — and probably go to neighboring jurisdictions. Mr. Stewart, with his characteristic disdain for facts, asserts that their departure is responsible for the county’s falling crime rate. In fact, the drop in crime mirrors regional and national trends
Virginia Gov. Robert F. McDonnell (R) has wisely kept his distance from Mr. Stewart’s attempt to take his crusade statewide, saying only he’ll study whatever comes up. The governor correctly notes that the federal government has failed to fashion a workable immigration system, and that the nation’s laws should be obeyed “and lawful immigration . . . encouraged and facilitated.”
Americans remain deeply divided over immigration, and politicians like Mr. Stewart have enjoyed some success in stoking tensions over that divide. Until Congress reforms the nation’s immigration system, undocumented immigrants will remain in limbo, and Mr. Stewart and his ilk will make political hay by hounding them.
The Washington Post sees right through Corey and his ambitions. Both the News and Messenger and the Washington Post have been around to see the debacle unfold, going back to 2007. Johnny-come-latelies like Fox News don’t know the background and won’t be asking the difficult questions like both of the Post and
N & M ask. Say what you want about print media, they are the ones who will ultimately make you look in the mirror. Both the Post and N & M have done just that.
Speaking of which….where are Corey’s old cronies? Who is going to crawl out from under a rock and cheer Corey on? Perhaps this latest move has thinned the ilk herd a bit. Perhaps the ilk will be more selective about whom they associate with.
I stopped reading at the fourth word: “xenophobia.” An interesting word that one. Reminds me of a fellow named Vortigern. He was said to have been the prince of the Britons in that long ago era after the Romans had abandoned Britain. Vortigern had a labor problem. It seems that the Irish from Ireland and the Picts from Scotland were constantly invading Britain or at least attacking and looting Briton settlements The Britons simply did not have enough troops to counter these attacks — or maybe some of those Britons just didn’t want to do that kind of dirty job.
So Vortigern started his own little guest worker program. He hired some Saxon adventurers from northern Germany to come to Briton and fill out the ranks of his army. In the beginning, it seemed to work out pretty well. The Saxons were natural warriors and gave a good account of themselves on the battlefield. After awhile, however, the Britons noticed that there were more Saxons in Briton than they thought. For, while the Britons were not paying enough attention, the Saxons began bringing over mamma and the kids, then Uncle Dieter and his family, and nephews and cousins and old buddies from the village — eventually whole darn villages. They even convinced some of my own Frisian ancestors to come along for the free ride. Pretty soon it became a veritable tsunami of Saxons and Angles and Jutes plus a few Frisians. Poor Vortigern and his successors could scarcely go take a wee-wee without tripping over a Saxon or two or three in the outhouse.
To make a long story short, England soon became Anglo-Saxon England and the poor Britons had to take refuge in the mountains of Wales or on the desolate coast of Cornwall. All this because of a labor shortage and because the Britons did not pay adequate attention to immigration policy. Now, I suppose that, if the Britons HAD decided to get tougher and set a firm immigration policy, the WaPo would have labelled them all as xenophobes. After all, those Saxons and Angles and Jutes just wanted jobs and a better means to feed their families. Things must have been kind of tough in Germany, what with unemployment and persistent tribal warfare amongst those vicious Teutons.
Actually, for a long time, there was much sympathy for those Britons among the intellectuals of later centuries. From this era was born the legend of King Arthur and his Knights of the Roundtable. The intelligentsia certainly did not refer to Arthur as one of those horrible xenophobes. What they didn’t mention, however, is that Arthur never did win back England from the Saxons, not even in the most stretched of the legends. They say he did manage to keep the Saxons out of Wales and Cornwall; but the only ones to take England away from the Saxons were my other ancestors, the Norsemen, who had founded Normandy, dallied around with some French lasses, and then came to Hastings in 1066 to eat their slice of the English pie.
Somewhere under a pile of earth and rubble, probably to be found someday by a persistent archaeologist, lies an ancient tomb. Perhaps the inscription will say: “Here lies Vortigern, once the Prince of the Britons. Let all the world know that he was NOT a xenophobe — just a guy with a flawed immigration policy.”
Aw, I’m just funning you guys with a dash of real history. Have at it. It’s going to be a long, hot summer.
“Ilk herd”. LOL!
Wolverine, interesting history. I know people object to words such as “racist” or “xenophobe”, but often they are accurate descriptors. Many of the problems that Prince William County encountered during the period leading up to the immigration resolution – over-crowding, noise, trash, etc. – could have been handled by ordinances already in place. (In my neighborhood, we’ve had similar problems – caused by white US citizens). Ethnicity didn’t have to enter the debate, but on the most vocal blog at the time slams at ethnicity were everyday occurances. Corey Stewart’s campaign echoed that tone. He didn’t make solving particular neighborhood problems his campaign focus but rather chose immigration – an issue he has little control over.
There are only so many ICE agents, immigration judges, etc. to deal with felons. If every jurisdiction in the US had a 287g program and turned over every immigrant here illegally, those agencies would grind to a halt. And the more states and counties that follow Corey’s suggestion, the less impact our 287g program in PWC will have. By advocating that enforcement be thinned by spreading Corey’s gospel across the state and country, he weakens PWC’s program. Additionally, where does the money come from to defend states/counties from inevitable lawsuits except from the coffers of the already cash-strapped jurisdictions? Everyone gets to pay for Corey’s politcal ambitions. If elected to another term or office, he will quickly forget the issue that garnered him votes. His campaign is based on fear – particularly fear of “the other”.
“Many of the problems that Prince William County encountered during the period leading up to the immigration resolution – over-crowding, noise, trash, etc. – could have been handled by ordinances already in place.”
Is that so, then why was Manassas unable to handle the overcrowding problem, and went to great lengths to prevent it only to be sued by, you guessed it, the ACLU? The overcrowding in Manassas would now be unimaginable if it weren’t for the passage of the PWC Resolution, and so for that we can all be grateful.
Hey, your poster boy Fernandez really decked out his property for the 4th. Cruise on over to the dark screen and enjoy his decorations!
SA, I addressed the Fernandez issue before the dark screen last night. I am not going to give him free advertising on this blog.
As for being MY poster boy….you must have forgotten yourself. This blog has never stood in support of any of Fernandez’s signs. They violate the City’s zoning ordinances. Period.
I am now speaking for myself: I think many of his messages have been hateful and racist and have no place in public. It is his right to say what he thinks but not where he is saying it. It is also my right to call his message racist. I rarely say things are racist…I will make an exception in his case.
Does that clarify my position any?
Wolverine, you have not had to live through Stewart’s discriminatory actions–the way he ignored thousands of protesters outside Chambers on the day the initial resolution passed, the way he pandered to hate groups, the way he refused to stand up for those of us who refuse to allow this county to become a police state and haters of all things Hispanic.
He has no regard for the county he is supposed to protect, has opened us to costly lawsuits and has ruined our good name. We are now known as a bunch of rednecks who can’t deal with demographic changes.
Say what you want, but the discrimination he supports through his political stances is unconscionable and Unconstitutional.
He definitely represents only one side of the equation, that’s for sure. And in America, when you don’t feel your point of view is being represented, then its time to vote for someone else.
Cory is sitting back preening himself thinking he can beat his opposition. Actually, he doesn’t really know who his opposition is. That has to be unsettling. Corey would do well to study up on Operation Overlord.
Don’t take it so hard MH. Those other folks know to whom I’m referring, not you. Sorry.
Ok, SA. Probably the only person who would have taken that any harder would have been Poor Richard, who is probably frothing at the mouth at the moment. I sure am glad you didn’t mean me. See how fast I rose up on that one? 🙄
Well Pink, we are better off today than we would have been the way things were going at the time, and THAT is where the rubber meets the road in my book. Perhaps the Hispanics should be held accountable for THEIR actions. It was their actions that brought a needed response from the disgusted citizens to begin with.
SA, what aspects of over-crowding would you like to see addressed? Too many cars? Where they’re parked? Too much trash? Are you willing to support parking by permit in sub-divisions? Do you want to see any truck or van with a permanent sign on it banned from residential areas? Those issues can be addressed apart from the ethnicity or immigration status of a property’s residents. Do you want to limit the number of people in a house? What do you do about large (12+ people) families? Do you expect to be able to inspect every existing house to see that there are no additional kitchens or that the bedrooms all have egress? Do you notify the county or city when you’re aware of construction on existing houses in your neighborhood?
I think Neighborhood Services went through an ineffective period. Maybe there are enough people working there now to address the problems more effectively. But if neighbors don’t get involved and merely phone in complaints, little changes. Corey’s emphasis should have been on adding more staff or involving neighborhoods in problem-solving rather than using immigration status to propel his ambitions. Our state doesn’t need to follow his suggestions. Our taxes are too valuable to waste on lawsuits defending the indefensible.
It would have been less expensive to start adding positions to neighborhood services and to stagger the times that the agents worked. 9-5 doesn’t do much good with working people. Making sure they had bilingual agents would have also been a good idea.
Of course, none of those types of ideas are good to use at election time.
I hate to keep harping on election time. We are a year and a half away…but the early bird gets the worm. Voters need to be asking themselves who has gained the most from developer money. Who was and still is giving the developers the green light? And what group was working for the developers?
The very person who some folks on this blog are claiming to be their savior gave the freaking green light to the developers who hired the illegal immigrants who built the houses that brought the traffic and required the schools that made the county obligations go up. NTK is right about the jobs. People don’t go where there is no work.
So Corey helped create the very situation that he can now pick up the battle axe and charge forward with…getting rid of the ‘illegals.’
Don’t take my word for it. http://www.vpap.org Run the filter on real estate/construction.
Ugh. I have to agree with Censored. It’s no business how many people live in a home to the government. Unless it’s a true fire code violation (and even then I can make an academic arguement that fire codes are an unconstitutional invasion upon property rights) I don’t see it needing to be a concern of govt.
If I want 2 people or 15 people in my home. That’s for me to decide. As long as I’m not running a hotel or boarding house – what’s the big deal?
I disagree with having bi-linqual anything. That raises costs to the taxpayer and the knowledge of and use of english should be encouraged at every venue outside of private enterprises.
To me this is a question of civil liberties and telling the govt to pound sand.
Its not up to you, Marin, when you live in a neighborhood and your behavior affects the quality of life of your neighbors.
Overcrowding was a huge problem in this area and it compromised the quality of life for homeowners daily, 24/7. If you own a ranch out in the middle of no where and want to put 100 people in your house, that’s one thing. You aren’t bothering anyone. (other than fire code)
However, in an area with residential zoning, it is very much the governments business how many people live in a house.
@Wolverine
Wolverine, that was entertaining.
I think the problem here is some people don’t appreciate rules or how rules should be made.
When I was growing up, I found people very confusing. We were suppose to use proper English, tell the truth, not steal, not envy others, — all that stuff we find in the Ten Commandments, our customs, and our laws. I was not exactly a good boy, but I tried to do what I was told by my parents and my teachers. I also noticed all the people who like myself had less than perfect success, and I noticed that some people don’t like rules at all. The latter insisted upon living by their own rules. In fact, they seemed make them up as they found it convenient.
Consider something simple and obvious, like the speed limit. Try driving the speed limit. Sooner or latter, someone will get mad at you because you are in their way, and they will consider you an idiot — for observing the speed limit.
For a long time I did not know what to make of this behavior. Even though I had my troubles obeying them, I could at least understand the need for rules. The alternative, chaos did not strike me as pleasant.
Finally, it dawned on me that some people want everything to be the way they think it ought to be, and they will not take no for answer. Consider the “rule” broken in the socalled editorial and in this post. Instead of debating Corey Stewart on the merits of his proposals, we are suppose to debate Corey Stewart. That is, we are suppose castigate Stewart’s character. Effectively, we are suppose to believe Stewart is wrong because Stewart is bad.
Because there is no sensible argument against what Stewart has proposed, actually debating Stewart on the merits of the issue is out of the question. We are simply suppose to ignore contrary evidence. How do we get to such a point? Because pride is a great hater of truth, reason requires humility.
Some very interesting comments here. It seems to me at times that you guys in PWC are so close to the action that you tend to overplay the idea that PWC has been given a national black eye. That, mind you, is not unusual and, indeed, quite normal in most conflicts in my opinion. We all tend to do that when we are at the very vortex of an issue. But, from what I can see, you are not being labelled in a widespread manner by the citizens of Peoria or Wichita as a bunch of southern redneck xenophobes. When you do come to the attention of others it is more like a recognition that a national battle of sorts is being played out to some extent on a particular local scene. In fact, Arizona has now stolen your act clean as a whistle because it is on a larger scale and so close to the actual leaking border.
In fact, I don’t even find that kind of condemnatory attitude in Loudoun, your neighbor next door. Because of the proximity we know there is a conflict and we know that the conflict has been bitter at times. But what we see is a very active debate on what is the best and most correct way to resolve an important and vexing issue. Some side with the Stewart faction and some with those opposed to Stewart — replicating in a way your own battle and a reaction to similar local problems on our home ground. Most also seem to believe that all of you were forced into this battle by the failure of the federal government, regardless of party, to do the job to which it has been assigned by law.
When the citizens and legal immigrants of Eastern Loudoun rose up in wrath against the Board of Supervisors and county government over crime and the degradation of our communities, PWC’s Stewart was cited at times as a place where our own BOS ought to seek some knowledge about how to handle this problem. But, on the whole, I don’t think many of those complainants even understood the details of the conflict in PWC. I know that I myself was running on rather thin fumes with regard to that, improving my own knowledge only be reading the BVBL and the anti-BVBL in order to get a better understanding of both sides. Having been much too busy with Neighborhood Watch and other things to pay much attention to the blogs, this was when I actually began to sense the hostility engendered in your bailiwick by this conflict.
The “education” so acquired caused me to reflect upon what I had seen during that revolt against government on the same issues on my own home turf. Eastern Loudoun has always had a certain level of ethnic diversity. What I saw during our own often bitter debates was a genuine effort by many to avoid the trap of anti-Hispanic bias because that was foreign, so to speak, to the nature of people who have lived near and worked with other ethnicities as a matter of course. But what I also sensed was that this effort was being harmed by the genuine distress over behavior issues involving some of the new immigrants. When you have lived in a home for X number of years and faithfully paid on a mortgage and then find that the house next door has been purchased by an unscrupulous landlord and turned into an unsightly and ill-kempt dormitory for workers in violation of the zoning laws, when your nights are interrupted by loud salsa music and the noise of parties, when your mailbox is being repeatedly knocked over by careless drivers, when the trash is stored in the neighbors’ back yard and the rats start burrowing into your yard, when you see police cars responding to a stabbing at a party in a neighborhood where police cars were not seen all that often, when the real estate agent tells you that conditions will make it tough if you want to sell your own home, you tend to get mighty pissed off, not to mention frightened by the prospect of crime and by an unspoken threat of retaliation if you complain loudly enough to the authorities. (One of my more active Neighborhood Watch participants recently had his tires slashed.) In all of this you can fight hard as Hell to keep falling into an ethnic bias pattern which may not be part of your basic nature; but when you see that the sources of your daily angst are people with the same color skin and the same or similar countries of origin, that fight for the angel side of your nature becomes very, very tough to win.
Having lived and worked for many years in countries where just one’s tribal origins and religion (never mind that the skin color was the same) could lead to deadly violence, I found myself unusually sensitive to these internal psychological fights between anger at behavior and anger at ethnicity. So did Mrs. W, whose own overseas activities took her into aspects of foreign culture different from those experienced by myself. One of the principal psychological reasons for starting our Neighborhood Watch and going so hard and heavy at it was because we did not want to see the anger at behavior turn into a raging anger based on ethnic bias, an anger that could be turned even on the Hispanic elements of our own nuclear family. It was our view that, if we could successfully modify many of the worst elements of bad behavior, either by persuasion or by the use of the law and the HOA rules, we might be able to tamper down any root causes for ethnic bias. We hope it is working. We live on a street with Caucasian Americans, African-Americans, African immigrants, Arab-Americans, Oriental immigrants, Hispanic-Americans, and recent Hispanic immigrants. When we started this thing, we found ourselves in the midst of rising anger among the first six groups against the last group. We do not see that so much anymore. The angry complaints made to Neighborhood Watch have dropped significantly. We hope it is working. And we hope that the recent Hispanic immigrants realize what has caused this drop in hostility and begin on their own to modify some of the behavior in question. We are seeing signs of that as well. We are not there yet; but our constant NW patrols are much, much more eventless than they used to be.
Censored, you keep mentioning things like Neighborhood Services in PWC and other ways to attack this problem in order to mitigate ethnic clashes per se. But what I am not getting from this blog are examples of how the people in PWC are trying right now to make this work, particularly in places like Manassas, Manassas Park, Woodbridge, Dale City, and the like. My own “foreign”meanderings these days seldom take me further than Haymarket and Gainesville, so I have no first-hand feel for the rest of PWC. Is something substantive being done on a serious scale?
Wolverine, CindyB and Lafayette might be able to tell you which groups have been formed to attack problems in specific neighborhoods by getting neighbors involved. I know that one neighborhood with past (and present) problems has formed a Neighborhood Watch. Neighborhood Services has classes which train people how to assume leadership roles in their neighborhoods.
I believe the City of Manassas makes yearly (?) exterior property inspections to enforce upkeep of property. I think that a couple neighborhoods there have rental inspections as well.
I’m of the opinion that many problems are caused by a clash of socio-economic classes. Sub-prime lending enabled people to buy more house than many of them could afford or keep up. Many firmly middle class people bailed out of older neighborhoods and headed toward Gainesville or Haymarket. Many people who would have been limited to renting bought older, smaller homes in established neighborhoods. They were lured into buying by promises of ever-rising equity, but when the market stalled and then crashed, they were left with escalating mortgages and no way of paying them without doubling and tripling up. Money (and time) for maintenance was non-existant in many cases. When established residents became concerned about upkeep and looked around at the demographics, they saw “Hispanic” instead of working class people who bought into more of the American dream than they could afford. – forgetting that many middle class people in Gainesville overbought as well.
The real issue is quality of life rather than immigration. The past three years should be enough to convince anyone that local jurisdictions have virtually no authority or enforcement capability regarding immigration laws.
Local government does, however, have a great deal of authority over zoning, crime (287 g), fire and safety, noise, and many other quality of life issues. If someone buys, rents or invests in a home in a neighborhood zoned single-family they must obey the law. I don’t want to hear BS from “rule of law” people in one breath that we are a nation of laws and in the next breath a statement that the property is theirs and they can do as they please with it. Tough – you knew the zoning and your disregard of the law diminishes my quality of life.
Neighborhood Services needs more staff and a fire lit under them to enforce zoning codes and overcrowding aggressively. However, I’m afraid that won’t happen until Steve Griffin and Melissa Peacor join the ranks of the unemployed. Thanks again, Corey. Concomitantly, PWC’s noise ordinance is very weak compared to other jurisdictions such as Fairfax County. Fairfax also uses a state code to allow parking restrictions in residential neighborhoods. We can go on and on about these problems, all of which are much easier and cheaper to address than trying in vain to enforce immigration laws at the local level.
Taking this route does not generate as much excitement and publicity as Corey has given us, but I prefer to take the quiet road with effective results for the community. But, I’m not trying to get elected Lt. Governor or to Congress or anything, so that might just be me.
I’ve written extensively in this blog about residential development. Developers are the primary employers (exploiters) of illegal labor. Corey reminds me of that character “Two-Face” in the Batman movie. Out of one side of his face he decries illegal immigration, and out of the other side of his face he takes thousands upon thousands of dollars from and serves the interests of the biggest source of employment for illegal aliens. We’re never going to solve any problems by electing such cynical, hypocritical, self-serving politicians.
If all of these issues are addressed effectively (overcrowding, noise, parking, overdevelopment, deportation of illegal aliens convicted of crimes, etc.) immigration would not be a concern. No community becomes a pariah because of seeking to create a high standard of living for all of its citizens regardless of whether they are immigrants or not.
Citizen Tom, This blog has spelled out time and time again the problem with Corey Stewart’s behavior. We have also pointed out that he is a likeable person and has good qualities that serve him well in the social world.
You would have us going point by point with Corey’s little election ploy? Don’t waste my time! Let’s start with why a county supervisor is meddling in an attempt to make state law. Let’s talk about why he stabbed our local state lawmakers in the back and strongly implied they were ineffectual.
Corey needs to tend to the business of Prince William County. Its ALL about behavior and his behavior is unacceptable to many of us.
Thanks to Censored, Wolverine and Need to Know for some very substantive discussion.
I would also have to say that Neighborhood services has improved by leaps and bounds since I have been involved in discussing neighborhood problems.
@Wolverine
But see, Wolverine, that is the difference. You created a neighborhood watch in order to avoid social conflict. You discussed maintenance and neighborhood issues. You attacked the source of the problem which was not illegal immigration.
Illegal immigration is a different problem. Illegal immigration should be handled at the jails, not in the neighborhood.
Why did our leadership not do the same thing? Obviously, we elected the wrong leaders.
Incidentally, I’ve had many people from out of state comment (negatively) on where I live in relationship to the immigration ordeal. Unfortunately, our name HAS been splattered across the news, and we have Stewart to thank for it.
@Moon-howler
What a perfect example of pride obscuring the facts! I point out that you are making Corey Stewart the problem instead how we deal with immigration, and you respond by saying that that is exactly what you have done — as if we did not already know that. Then in the very next post you pat yourself on the back. 🙄
Let’s just look at the one issue you actually mentioned in your response, “why a county supervisor is meddling in an attempt to make state law.” Stewart is doing what he was elected to do. He is representing his constituents concerns.
Our government is a system of checks and balances. We all familar the differing roles of the legislative, excutive, and judicial branches and how they check and counterbalance each other. Unfortunately, because we have a socialist education system, little mention is usually made of the fact that local governments, state governments, and the federal government also check and counterbalance each other. Socialists want one Big Government, not a federation and certainly not limited government. That is why they skip over that point.
However, we still have a federation, and that federation still has the capacity to provide checks and balances. In fact, in response to the federal government’s outright refusal to enforce immigration law, state and local governments have responded.
Instead of doing the job the Constitution actually charters them to do, many of our national leaders have busied themselves gathering power to themselves (by nationalizing the banking industry, health care, automaking…). Insteading of enforcing national soverreignity, national leaders have invited illegal immigrants into our nation. These immigrants threaten to radically change the character of our country. Those changes happen first at the local and state level.
In addition to increased crime, increased cost for public services, and making the USA bilingual; the voting patterns of poorly educated immigrants can easily alter our political system for the worse. Look at where most illegal immigrants come from. They moved here because they did not like it there. Unfortunately, these people did not know how to fix the political systems in their homeland, and nobody has taught them what they need to know here.
So the People are complaining. What they are seeing frightens them — as well it should. And the politicians closest to the People, local and state officials, are voicing their complaints. As I said, Stewart is doing his job. He is trying to fix a difficult problem that other people would just as soon ignore.
And I disagree with you, CT. Your initial premise and your logic. Stewart needs to tend to Prince William County, not start a statewide campaign which is a not so clever disguise for getting reelected. It worked for him once. He has no reason to think if he retreaded his idea, it wouldn’t work again.
You are free to tout anti immigration messages all you want, on YOUR blog. The same thing could have been said about the Irish, the Italians, the Poles, the Jews….the list goes on. All of those people came over as poorly educated immigrants for the most part. Most immigrants move because they dislike conditions in the old country. Why else would they forsake friends, family and life as they know it?
Tell me CT., did Corey send you or are you still part of the herd?
I cannot decide, did you come to bash me, defend Corey, or deride the school system?
Next time, let’s go with a little less arrogance. please. I don’t tell you how to run your blog and I would like the same courtesy extended to me.
“Look at where most illegal immigrants come from. They moved here because they did not like it there. Unfortunately, these people did not know how to fix the political systems in their homeland, and nobody has taught them what they need to know here. ”
We can’t seem to fix OUR political problems, either. And half the people who vote now don’t know what they are voting for or against. Too many don’t vote at all.
Maybe we should kick out everyone we think is beneath us. Once the country is vacated and we have killed off those we think inferior, we can start over, eh?
@Moon-howler
Moonhowler – Saying what is neither an insult nor a plot. It simply is.
Let’s consider an analogous problem, the disabled and politically correct language. If someone loses the use of their legs in an accident, they are crippled. It is just a fact, not an insult, but some hate being associated with the word. Because it marks them as less than perfect, it offends their pride. Yet to avoid offending anyone, every few years the politically correct insist we come up with a new expression to replace the word “crippled.” Eventually, event the replacement just becomes a synonym for “crippled.”
If you cannot argue your case, either you don’t know enough or you are wrong. Accusing others even if they have sinned does not prove you right. It just invite observations on your own imperfections.
For fun, let’s consider the silliness of your charges. For example, you have just called Corey Stewart ambitious. Fancy that! An ambitious politician! Let me know when you find one who is not ambitious. Even George Washington wanted to get elected. Washington did not gain fame because he lacked ambition. He gained fame for being honorable. He did not carry his ambition to excess and try to become our first king.
You said I am anti-immigrant, but you did not substantiate that charge. You said I am a pawn of Corey Stewart, but you did not substantiate that charge. You accused me of deriding the school system, but all I did is point to the fact we have a socialist system. It’s not?
Instead of debating the issues, should I accuse you of making frivolous charges? At least I could substantiate that charge. But what would be the point? That too would not involve discussing the issues.
@Moon-howler
There is nothing to debate, CT. You don’t set the terms here. I tend to discuss things with the contributors. I don’t debate them.
You may accuse me of anything you want. That’s up to you.
I asked you questions. You chose not to answer them. Specifically, I said anti-immigrant message. I don’t know if you are anti-immigrant or not. I don’t know if you are a pawn of Corey’s or not. I asked were you. You chose not to answer.
Our record on the behavior of Corey Stewart is well-documented. We are not going to reinvent the wheel just because you are here. Feel free to browse through the archives.
[…] here: on why people attack the messenger […]
@Moon-howler I was suppose to take those questions seriously? Well, here is a “serious” question for you.
It is an old joke. To anyone not familiar with that old joke, my question, like your own, contains three fallacious premises.
1. The question is worth taking seriously.
2. There is some possibility that you might be beating your wife.
3. You expect me to dignify the question by defending myself from such stupidity.
The point? The question, “Are you still beating your wife?” presents the same problem as your well-documented record on Corey Stewart. Your record of guilt is upon a false premise. Being opposed to illegal immigration does not make one either anti-immigrant or racist. Nonetheless, that is your starting point.
Corey is out for Corey. He sees the election coming in November, and needs to deflect all issues, and point it towards one villain – the illegal immigrant. All other issues are to be ignored, so that the illegal immigrant is the reason for all our woes. If we just stopped hiring the illegal immigrant, he would leave, and/or not come here for the jobs that we pay them to do.
Wow, I am gone for a week and its like freakin’ “Groundhog Day” with Bill Murray! Same circular conversation. This blog, along with Antibvbl had, ad nauseum, demonstrated why Corey could care less about “illegal” immigration except as an election tool. We have discussed, ad nauseum, the misuse of crime statistics, we have discussed, ad nauseum, the history of immigration and the creation of laws to deal with those issues, most issues being fear of “others”. The reality is that this nation as MUCH bigger fish to fry than a population that compromises less than 5% of the total population. We have global warming issues, economic issues, education issues, affordable housing, joblessness, healthcare etc etc. This issue of an “invasion” and the scare tactics is simply a ruse to prevent people from looking at the REAL issues that effect this country.
Citizen Tom, why was it again that you had issues with Greg Letiecq?
Tom, I have not said Corey is a racist. I have not said he was opposed to immigration.
Quit making stuff up. You don’t need to explain ‘when did you stop beating your wife.’
More arrogance and frankly, you are being a pain in the ass. If you do not like the political positions of this blog, don’t come here.
Our position is that Corey is a political opportunist. We don’t need to explain it to you or debate it with you. As I said earlier, you are free to rifle through the archives.
Moon, it is obvious that Citizen Tom is a Stewart shill. His blog is full of GOP rhetoric and pointers to Stewart’s garbage. I think it is really gutsy that someone would steal the good name and reputation of Thomas Jefferson in order to so spurious business.
I figured that Citizen Tom needed material. He likes to comment on our threads on his blog and highlight where he has told us off. I was right. That’s exactly what he was up to.
Tom would also have his GOP buddies think we support open borders. Nothing is further from the truth. Both Elena and I believe that our borders should as secure as possible. This is particularly critical with the drug cartel violence that is currently happening in Mexico.
I do have one question for all of you who are residents of PWC. As far as I know Corey Stewart is not the King of PWC. If you are like Loudoun, you must have supervisors who represent specific districts of the county and who are charged with representing the interests of the residents in those districts. Do none of these supervisors operate in a sphere apart from that which would seem to revolve around only Mr. Stewart?
I ask this because, when that explosion came among the residents of Eastern Loudoun, the primary responders were the separate supervisors who represented those districts most in anger and anguish. At the level of county government we wound up with a lead team composed of a conservative Republican and a liberal Democrat, both of them having realized that the way to put out a potential political fire was to place a heavy focus on a revamping of the tools of local government which could best address the most pressing quality of life issues. These two supervisors had and still have rather opposite views on the issue of illegal immigration itself, but they dampened that personal fire in the interest of showing substantive government response to constituents in a time of crisis. They also got behind a big push for activist citizen involvement in the solutions, not just the complaints. The citizens themselves were asked to research and report on the problems in more detail and help to devise a plan of attack. We still have a long ways to go, but that move has gotten us off the dime. This unlikely tandem also took the lead in dragging the rest of the BOS into the fight in a positive response mode, even though other supervisors often lived in districts not touched nearly as much by the crisis.
Quite frankly, what I seem to being getting from this blog and from your local media and even from the WaPo is a sense that governance in PWC is sort of like having a prime minister (Stewart) surrounded by his cabinet rather than a board of supervisors of independent parts. Are any of your supervisors from districts with quality of life issues rolling up their own sleeves and seeking to generate purely local (district) citizen responses to the problems. If so, are they doing this fairly and with consideration for all sides or are they just prone to play ethno-political games for future votes? Are any of them putting politics aside and teaming up to make some postive progress on quality of life issues?
Sorry, Elena, but I have to disagree. Yes, indeed, this nation does have many other issues to resolve beyond that of illegal immigration. But, hey, when the home you have paid for and cared for all your life is suddenly situated next to a flophouse (or, in my case previously a blatant bordello) in what was once a peaceful, family neighborhood, things do tend to veer unavoidably toward the local. It seems to me that life has always been that way.
Couldn’t sleep, and so is it sheer coincidence that the rise in neighborhood problems and the uprise of illegal immigration occurred at the same time? Fact is they are one and the same. You can’t fight one without fighting the other. The residential problems encountered didn’t involve long time residents, but instead involved the new comers who through no fault of our own were mainly from south of the border. Many came from a third world environment, and brought their living customs and habits with them. Not many US citizens would want to move where they once lived for obvious reasons, and it is their responsibility to conform to our way of living, and not for us to accept the degradation of our communities through acceptance of their lifestyle. Lifestyle incompatibility was the real problem. Discovering that many were in the country illegally just made the situation that much more unacceptable, but also provided a built in solution. Simply enforce the immigration laws, and most of the residential problems will disappear along with the people creating them in the first place. So basically that’s what happened.
Wolverine, the reason that the PWC resolution incorporates physical arrest rather than probable cause is because of other supervisors from the 8 magisterial districts. Corey Stewart said that the physical arrest component would pass over his dead body. As you can see, he is still alive and kicking. After losing that round, he acted like that is what he wanted all along.
So yes, to answer your question. That is what we are referring to when we say that the PWC Immigration Resolution was neutered. The Antibvbl crowd was pleased with this end result. Alanna was there when the vote took place. I want to say April 20, 2008.
Corey thinks he is Prime Minister, thus the attention-seeking behaviors.
SA, how did you learn the status of all of your neighbors? I sure didn’t know the status of mine and it isn’t something I would ask them.
Overall, some of the neighborhood issues were definitely conflicts of culture and socio-economic class. I would say from what *I* saw, many of the problems stemmed from poor people moving in on top of middle class homeowners who had lived in a neighborhood for years. They afforded the homes because of doubling and tripling up.
I saw something similar happen when I lived in a townhouse community many years ago. It turned crappy fairly fast. Pretty much the same kinds of behavior…trash all over the place, not in containers, rats coming in, too many people in a house, parking issues, NO salsa music. And yes, its horrible and very little you can do to fight it.
Let me just say that Georgetown South used to be an up and coming place to live in the late 60s and early 70’s. Something happened. Irongate used to be filled with middle class people with young children just a few years behind Georgetown South. Something happened. What was the common ratio? Number of owners to renters.
This latest round had one unique component–an super-hyper-overly inflated housing market with loose rules for purchase.
SA, which immigration rules did you want enforced? I don’t think that was or is the issue here. I think what probably needs to be enforced are employment rules. But then its pretty hard to come down on those who employee illegal immigrants when they are contributing heavily to your campaign fund. If you go to Corey Stewart’s website, he does not mention putting the squeeze on those corportations who hire undocumented workers.
He wants to bust up day labor sites (day riders at the 7-11?) but he sure doesn’t mention anything that might influence how his developer buddies hire bulders and contractors. Check it out for yourself: http://www.coreystewart.com/ruleoflaw.
@Moon-howler
If you support racists through racist policy, you are a racist, a particularly loathsome form of racist, at that. Why? YOU have the power to set the tone and the law. Stewart does not use his authority responsibly.
“In addition to increased crime, increased cost for public services, and making the USA bilingual; the voting patterns of poorly educated immigrants can easily alter our political system for the worse. Look at where most illegal immigrants come from. They moved here because they did not like it there. Unfortunately, these people did not know how to fix the political systems in their homeland, and nobody has taught them what they need to know here.”
WOW Tom, in a different era I guess you would have supported Jim Crow laws or shipping the Irish back to whence they came in order to prevent our political system from being altered. Can’t say I completely disagree as history indicates that many of our recent ancestors, many of whom moved here largely to escape political systems in their homeland that they couldn’t fix, did IMHO alter our political system for the worse by electing FDR for four terms. Of course a large percentage of the population would disagree with that premise but nevertheless, it proved not to be the end of the republic.
You accuse other of obfuscation or for personal reasons, focusing on an individual and not the underlying issue. I would suggest it is you who is actually laying a smokescreen unless of course you actually believe the drivel you spout. If the latter is the case, I would suggest some remedial courses in US civics as it is clear you don’t understand the structure and responsiblities of our various elected offices.
You seem to be under the impression that Corey, through his focus on immigration, is representing the desires of his constitutents and that may be true for some percentage, but it is the job of the office to which he was elected. Though there are costs and problems created by the issue, it is by no means the only issue nor IMHO the greatest issue facing local governments. Perhaps if Corey gave more than lip service to those other issues, our crumbling infrastructure, undue influence by developers, diminished funding from the state and the Feds, unprofessional if not incompetent county staff, an iminent crisis re: senior care, etc., etc., etc. those condemning him might back off a little.
As I don’t forsee that happening, consider yourself in the relatively small minority of informed Corey supporters (a subset I used to be a part of).
Citizen Tom said: “The voting patterns of poorly educated immigrants can easily alter our political system for the worse. Look at where most illegal immigrants come from. They moved here because they did not like it there. Unfortunately, these people did not know how to fix the political systems in their homeland, and nobody has taught them what they need to know here.” Huh?
Altering the political system for the worse? If not blindly adopting the right-wing nationalism ideology constitutes “for the worse” then I suppose that statement is true. It is an interesting argument that if they are unlikely to agree with Citizen Tom’s personal view of what’s “for the better” they automatically make things “for the worse.”
Don’t know how to fix the political systems in their homelands? Like we’ve cracked that nut here? We call ourselves a democracy yet in the 2000 presidential election almost 550,000 more Americans voted for Al Gore than voted for George Bush, but Bush was declared the winner because he got 1 more vote than Al Gore among the 9 votes cast at the Supreme Court. That was such a huge farce that even Fidel Castro offered to send observers in 2004 to ensure we had fair elections. And only 1 in 5 Americans give their Congress – their elected representatives – a favorable rating. We send troops to other countries and provide security for their citizens to walk miles and risk their lives to cast a vote (voter turnout in Iraq in 2010 was 62%), yet when it’s time to vote here we’ve done good if we can get half the eligible voters to do their civic duty and we rank near the bottom of voter participation of all countries in the world (the 2008 election was a banner year where 57% of those of voting age voted). Our political system is a dysfunctional mess, so to argue that immigrants aren’t welcome until they fix the political systems in their places of birth is hypocritical.
The WashPost notwithstanding, America is not ambivalent about illegal immigration and those that are using the issue to attack Corey Stewart – are not PWC independents. The WashPost has long ago given up their claim to be a news organization – its an arm of the politically correct Democratic party. Yelling racism in a political debate is debasing – even more so when the subject is illegal immigration – to all of us – but it is the Democrat’s only retort to their lack of patriotism, and by that I include cultural patriotism, respect for our history, limited goverment and respect for individualism.
Has anyone on this bolg argued against tougher sanctions for employers caught hiring illegals? That and many other sanctions are needed – to include access to schools, and other benefits – with the risk of deportation made real.
Swooping Buzzard, those who know me know I rarely call people ‘racist.’ I don’t think we know what is in people’s hearts. I grew up in the south during a time when probably you would have thought everyone I knew or came in contact with was a racist. Therefore, I am real careful before I use the R word. Example: If someone drank from the white water fountain, did that make them a racists or someone who followed the rules of their society?
The word racist makes me extremely uncomfortable and I have heard it very much over-used. Racism very much exists. However, when we use it at every turn, no one really notices when it really comes along.
I suspect many of us who are military veterans and who have supported Democratic candidates and Democratic policy positions take exception to the “lack of patriotism” label. That charge was particularly insulting when Corey Stewart hurled it a few months ago. To the best of my knowledge the closest Corey Stewart has come to putting himself in harms way is driving on the mean streets of Woodbridge.
TP, feel free to look through the archives. I am not doing remedial courses on what this blog has said about illegal immigration since its inception on Feb. 26, 2010 or its parent’s (antibvbl.net) inception in early 2008. Need to Know speaks almost daily about penalizing employers. That is his mantra.
Wolverine,
I lived in a neighborhood that changed dramatically, it was in Centreville and the residents were not Hispanic. They were from other countries. NEVER, would I have tried to pass a resolution to change the ethnicity of my community. I simply reached out to my direct neighbors and built a relationship as best I could. I made pies when my one neighbor was battling breast cancer, her lawn wasn’t mowed, her husband was clearly a jerk, they did not know, after the car battery sat out on the sidewalk for a month, week after week of non pick up by trash company, that the dump did not take batteries. We finally told them where it needed to be taken. Our other neighbors who had mutliple mattresses, rotting, on their deck, who had too many people living in their towhhouse, also had their issues. One time, in fact, I knocked on their door because I was concerned the wife was being abused. I had a private talk with her and let her know if EVER she needed help, I was there. THAT is how you deal with community issues. IF they had been hispanic should I have assumed they were undocumented? Would THAT have changed my circumstance in that neighborhood?
Moe, you ROCK!
Point taken, Elena. Direct citizen involvement in quality of life issues. Not unlike what I and Mrs. W have been doing in our own locale. However, my question goes a bit further than that. Did you in your personal efforts as described in #45 ever have the occasion to call upon instruments of local governance (police; zoning inspectors; county health department; etc) when situations arose which were not responsive to your personal efforts at persuasion? And was there, in your opinion, an adequate and effective response when you asked for such help?
That is a big part of the problem which we had in Eastern Loudoun and still have to some extent, although we are working on it. Except for the police in an emergency situation or under a Community Policing Program, government response was either not forthcoming or very slow and usually ineffective. That specifically is what caused the anger of the citizens to break out into the open. An immediate change in that situation was the primary demand of the angry citizens. Although anti-illegal immigrant sentiment was certainly present in the hearts of some, the debate did not center on a demand to remove the illegal immigrants from our midst by any means possible. Rather, the emphasis at that moment was to use the lawful power of local government to oblige these same immigrants to respect our laws and our community’s quality of life. In the end, local government did not respond to the immigration issue per se. It responded to citizen complaints about its own ineptitude and dereliction of duty.
What we have found personally in all of this is that, while some can be responsive to persuasion, there are many who respond not at all until the force and punishments of law, whether local law or HOA rules, are visited upon them. There have been many occasions when our only recourse for resolving a difficult situation was to call for help from an authority with greater power than our own. For instance, I as the Neighborhood Watch guy have absolutely no law enforcement or judicial power in any way shape or form. I can report and I can dissaude just through presence and , indeed, have done so many times. But, in the end, I need that concerned supervisor, that responding police officer, that honest and effective zoning inspector, and the power of the HOA under state law to levy fines for rules violations. Without that critical backup, I really do not have much of an arsenal. Which is exactly why I am curious about the concerned citizens of PWC. Do you have such an arsenal to back you up when you try to become directly involved?
Attack mode — on. I wonder what Corey did to you , you sound like jilted lovers – what is the real anger here?
I disagree with those that say Corey is out of line. Look, he is an elected official doing what those who elected him want him to do – give us the tools to enforce existing law. As such, it is perfectly appropriate for him to expouse those views to State officials – who he should and does have better access to.
I am all for neighborhood watch and the way the program has been used and coordinated by the PWCPD – its good policing – but remember it also comes with risks of neighbors getting over on neighbors, and nosy neighbors. When appropriate, the police need specialized tools to do the things we are asking them /expecting them to do. Asking a drunk for a driver’s license is not inappropriate – finding that drunk to be here illegally should raise the stakes for that individual. Being called into a domestic disturbance – where all too often the officer is at risk, is no different.
@TP
That kind of reference is out of line. It is unacceptable and disrespectful to both Elena and me but also to Corey and Mrs. Stewart. Please stick to his political behaviors.
Our paper trail goes back to early 2008. Our grievances with Corey’s politics are clear.
Feel free to think what you want.
Wolverine, I know what you are asking. It is hard to say. I don’t feel govt was as unresponsive as it was just perhaps ill-equipped and over burdened with complaints.
Example: a friend saw some people taking appliances out of the house they were squatting in. She called the police. N othing could be done because one of them had mail addressed to him at that house. The cops didn’t know who lived where and that the squatters had been evicted. They can’t take a citizens word for it.
When I saw a similar thing happen near me, I didn’t bother to call. I knew the drill. Truthfully, a small part of me felt it served the land lord right for renting to people that had caused the rest of us trouble.