The Obama administration has taken a different tact than previous administrations in dealing with illegal immigration. Rather than hundreds of agents pouring into one factory or farm, 1 agent pours over records of hundreds of different factories and farms looking for evidence of illegal immigrants. According to the New York Times:
While the sweeps of the past commonly led to the deportation of such workers, the “silent raids,” as employers call the audits, usually result in the workers being fired, but in many cases they are not deported.
Over the past year, Immigration and Customs Enforcement has conducted audits of employee files at more than 2,900 companies. The agency has levied a record $3 million in civil fines so far this year on businesses that hired unauthorized immigrants, according to official figures. Thousands of those workers have been fired, immigrant groups estimate.
Employers say the audits reach more companies than the work-site roundups of the administration of President George W. Bush. The audits force businesses to fire every suspected illegal immigrant on the payroll— not just those who happened to be on duty at the time of a raid — and make it much harder to hire other unauthorized workers as replacements. Auditing is “a far more effective enforcement tool,” said Mike Gempler, executive director of the Washington Growers League, which includes many worried fruit growers.
Immigration inspectors who pored over the records of one of those growers, Gebbers Farms, found evidence that more than 500 of its workers, mostly immigrants from Mexico, were in the country illegally. In December, Gebbers Farms, based in this Washington orchard town, fired the workers.
“Instead of hundreds of agents going after one company, now one agent can go after hundreds of companies,” said Mark K. Reed, president of Border Management Strategies, a consulting firm in Tucson that advises companies across the country on immigration law. “And there is no drama, no trauma, no families being torn apart, no handcuffs.”
President Obama, in a speech last week, explained a two-step immigration policy. He promised tough enforcement against illegal immigration, in workplaces and at the border, saying it would prepare the way for a legislative overhaul to give legal status to millions of illegal immigrants already in the country. White House officials say the enforcement is under way, but they acknowledge the overhaul is unlikely to happen this year.
Critics have complained that the illegal immigrants are still in the country and can just go work elsewhere. Business people, factory and farm owners have complained that they simply cannot get enough workers to conduct business. 69% of farm workers are immigrants.
Others have praised the program saying that families aren’t torn apart and workers aren’t led away in handcuffs.
It seems that if the noose is being applied to the employers in this manner, there is a desperate need for comprehensive immigration reform in order to be able to have workers legally in the country, whether this is done as part of a guest worker program or part of a path to legal permanent residency.
ICE seems to have the following goals:
John Morton, the head of the immigration agency, known as ICE, said the goal of the audits is to create “a culture of compliance” among employers, so that verifying new hires would be as routine as paying taxes. ICE leaves it up to employers to fire workers whose documents cannot be validated. But an employer who fails to do so risks prosecution.
ICE is looking primarily for “egregious employers” who commit both labor abuses and immigration violations, Mr. Morton said, and the agency is ramping up penalties against them.
Regardless, Americans will probably never agree on how ICE is to handle undocumented workers.
If many of these workers somehow become documented and are no longer illegal immigrants, some of those who most harshly criticize, the ‘illegal is illegal’ bunch, will have to regroup and find a new issue to attack.
In another thread, I recommended that these types of violations should come under the RICCO laws–first offense, huge fine; second offense, loss of business license for X months; third offense, permanent loss of business license.
Make E-verify readily available. Reinstitute the Bracero program or some similar farm labor program.
But not putting illegals out of the country doesn’t solve anything. They should be sent home when they are caught–period. No questions asked.
I don’t understand why all these free market enthusiasts have a problem when it comes to hiring illegal immigrants. Sees to me that if you favor free market enterprise and all, then you shouldn’t have a problem with employers hiring whoever they want to hire and paying whatever they want to pay. Either you support the free market or you don’t.
So Starryflights, you are against the federal minimum wage law?
@starryflights
I don’t understand why all these free market enthusiasts have a problem when it comes to hiring illegal immigrants.
Perhaps they want to follow the law? Just a hunch. In days gone by, it was understood that doing something against the law was considered illegal. How I miss those olden days.
Sees to me that if you favor free market enterprise and all, then you shouldn’t have a problem with employers hiring whoever they want to hire and paying whatever they want to pay.
Sure. So support your local mafia! It’s a business, yes? Supply meets demand. They hire who they want and pay what they want. Retirement packages can be great, but I hear that severance packages can be iffy. And, of course, medical benefits are included, but only after a stellar Performance Appraisal.
Either you support the free market or you don’t.
Either you follow the law or you don’t.
Personally, I’d like to see the free market flourish AS LONG AS all local, state and federal laws are followed.
“They should be sent home when they are caught–period. No questions asked.”
But George, how will you know they are illegal? it seems like an awful lot of brown people from Mexico will lose their livelihoods.
ICE would have already identified them.
What is the cost of sending home undocumented workers, just out of curiosity?
Ring, why must everything be expressed in binary terms? Is everything a yes or a no? I would not like to see free markets flourish like they did up until the financial crash of 2008. Most of the things that destroyed our financial security were not from broken laws.
This is further institutionalizing total confusion. The opposite of leadership. But politically expedient.
Uh? Tell us Rick, what would you do?
@Emma
C’mon Emma. How will we know they are illegal? Duh–no papers–no passport, no visa, no green card, no evidence of legal presence. I don’t mean they go right from where they are caught–they should be given the opportunity to provide the necessary paperwork. No paperwork–bye, bye.
@Moon-howler
I guess it depends on the mode of transportation. By bus, probably not much. Whatever the cost, it may well be less that what is being spent by various government agencies to provide services that others pay taxes for. A reminder–I don’t sanction a witchhunt. Let me repeat that–I don’t sanction a witchhunt, but if folks are here illegally and they are caught,then they have to go. They knew when they came in that this was a possibility. No sob stories about breaking up families, they understood that also.
There are extenuating circumstances. There are kids for starters, who through no fault of their own are here. They were brought in by their parents. How about the older ones?
We have a blogger who is part of the ‘howlings family whose husband has been unable to adjust his status, after 10 freaking years. That just isn’t right. He has an American wife and an american child.
I just don’t see this entire issue as an up or down question in many cases.
“I would not like to see free markets flourish like they did up until the financial crash of 2008. Most of the things that destroyed our financial security were not from broken laws.”
Actually that financial crash was directly due to “broken laws” or, more accurately, bad law.
From “mark to market”, repeal of Glass-Steagall, forcing banks into making bad loans, lax enforcement from Congress, overemphasis on Fannie/Freddie for political gain, and other laws passed by Congress over the past couple of decades, this collapse was predictable. Even with my rudimentary knowledge of economics, the repeal of Glass-Steagall, to make US banks more like the European banks, I could tell that trouble was coming.
With each new law, the financial markets adapted. They can only play by the rules that they are given. The financial companies took advantage of the laws and lax oversight. Those that were politically connected thrived, and even had former employees become persons of power in government. Governments down to the county level jumped on the bandwagon, in taking advantage of the bubble along with huge numbers of people that didn’t take time to do due diligence. Loan companies both lent recklessly and took advantage of people. But no one forces anyone to sign a loan.
Moon,
The kids go with their parents. If our government can force Elian Gonzales away from family, against the wishes of his mother, who died trying to flee communism, then we sure can tell illegal aliens to take their kids with them. Or, leave them with legal family or guardians. Don’t care which.
@Cargo, I was speaking of older kids who might even be young adults. They were brought here as young children.
I will have to disagree about laws that had been broken leading to the financial crash. Bad laws are still laws of the land.
@George S. Harris You apparently have a problem with Latinos who are coming to this country just to make a decent living and provide for their families. You know that this process will capture people who are largely Hispanic, so this sounds an awful lot like ethnic cleansing to me. But whatever floats your boat, George.
Emma, you are baiting. Why?
Emma,
You apparently don’t have a problem with illegal aliens that are coming to this country to illegally take jobs, steal identities, use our social services, make it harder for legal immigrants to get accepted, and keep their primary identity with their country of origin. You apparently don’t notice that the evidence that 70-90% of ALL illegal aliens come from south of the border, so therefore, they will be the primary suspect. Calling the removal of illegal aliens ethnic cleansing is an insult to the actual victims of such atrocious acts. Apparently, you don’t care to differentiate between mass slaughter and removal of non-citizens, non-citizens whose rights are respected, and in many cases, put above other law breakers, in such that they are NOT deported, or even picked up by ICE, when they are notified by local LEO.
Or, am I missing some sarcasm? Because the comment pushed a big button.
@moonhowler
There is definitely the problem of young adults who were brought here illegally as children and grew up in the US, but are essentially illegal. Once they turn 18 they are responsible for their own illegal status and can be deported. This is unfortunate because many of them do not have anywhere to go or family back in their country of orgin. To compound the problem, if they remain here, many cannot find employment because their SSN’s are not valid for employment, and many cannot get a drivers license, and they cannot get into college, nor can they join the military. So basically they just languish here.
However, I know of two such cases in which illegal young adults have attempted to right their status. One young lady is 19, came to the US at the age of 2yrs and graduated from school in the US. She is married to a US citizen and has a 2yr old child. She went to an immigration lawyer and filed papers requesting to remain in the US legally. She brought her school transcripts, marriage certificate, SSN card (stamped “not valid for employment”), her family’s tax returns, son’s birth cert, husband’s birth cert, and underwent a criminal background check. Now all thats left to do is wait and see if she will be allowed to remain here. There is always the risk she will be deported. But because she is attempting to right her status prior to deportation, she will be allowed to reapply for a visa to re enter the US within a relatively “short” period of wait time (2-3 years). But there is a good chance that she will be allowed to remain here.
@ DB,
I hope you are right and you have described the situation well. The girl you know might have a long wait. We have a blog member who has been waiting for a long time. Keep us posted how her situation is going and thanks for your input.
@Moon-howler
“We have a blogger who is part of the ‘howlings family whose husband has been unable to adjust his status, after 10 freaking years. That just isn’t right. He has an American wife and an american child. ”
Well Moon, I have one simple question–Is he here legally? If not, I have little, if any sympathy for him. Sorry. If he is here illegally he has known this from the time he came. The fact that he married and American and sired a child doesn’t change the fact that he is here illegally. He knew he was here illegally when these two events happened. Sorry again. As I have said, I don’t believe in witch hunts to ferret out illegals, but if they are discovered, caught or whatever term you want to use, then they shouldn’t come around sucking their thumb and trying to justify their illegal status. Do the right thing–and that is come in legally.
@Emma
You obviously have not read what I have said. I will repeat it for the umpteenth time–
I AM NOT FOR WITCH HUNTS TO FERRET OUT LATINOS WHO ARE HERE ILLEGALLY, BUT IF THEY ARE DISCOVERED, THEY NEED TO MAN-UP OR WOMAN-UP OR WHATEVER TERM YOU WANT TO USE FOR ADMITTING THEY ARE HERE ILLEGALLY AND THEN DO THE “RIGHT” THING. IF THIS MEANS GETTING DEPORTED, THEN THAT IS THE COST OF BEING CAUGHT.
As I just said in #20, getting married, having kids, etc. don’t count for getting around the law. The person knew from the beginning that they were here illegally–THAT is the issue here.
I strongly suggest you go back and read what I have said. I am not against anyone coming here LEGALLY–repeat–LEGALLY. I fully understand the desire to live “the American Dream.” but do it LEGALLY
@Emma
You obviously have not read what I have said. I will repeat it for the umpteenth time–
I AM NOT FOR WITCH HUNTS TO FERRET OUT LATINOS WHO ARE HERE ILLEGALLY, BUT IF THEY ARE DISCOVERED, THEY NEED TO MAN-UP OR WOMAN-UP OR WHATEVER TERM YOU WANT TO USE FOR ADMITTING THEY ARE HERE ILLEGALLY AND THEN DO THE “RIGHT” THING. IF THIS MEANS GETTING DEPORTED, THEN THAT IS THE COST OF BEING CAUGHT.
As I just said in #20, getting married, having kids, etc. don’t count for getting around the law. The person knew from the beginning that they were here illegally–THAT is the issue here.
I strongly suggest you go back and read what I have said. I am not against anyone coming here LEGALLY–repeat–LEGALLY. I fully understand the desire to live “the American Dream.” But do it LEGALLY. I don’t care where they are from, what their race or ethnicity is. All I ask is that they come here LEGALLY like millions have in the past–probably including members of your own family and mine and most people who post to this blog unless you are a native American.
Ethnic cleansing–you gotta be kidding me. I have railed against such a thing and will continue to do so.
George,
What of the minor children brought here illegally? At what age do you think they realized they were illegal? 8, 10,12, 14 16, or 18? And what are they supposed to do when they realize that they are illegal? Self-deport at age 12? What happens to them when this is the only country they’ve known, the only place they’ve ever lived, and in many cases English is the only language they are literate in? These youngsters didn’t “know” they were illegal when they arrived, and they didn’t come here on their own. What are they supposed to do now, 10, 15, or 20 years later? Return to a country they’ve never been to? Speak a language in which they’re barely proficient?
My legal (?) Irish relatives showed up here in the 1800’s prior to the civil war with NO documentation. Shit, none of them were even naturalized. My German grandfather was naturalized prior to WW2, but none of his siblings bothered. My great uncle was a WWI hero and all his parents did was get off a boat from Ireland, find a place to live, and have kids and nobody asked THEIR KIDS about their parents status, NO COLLEGE DENIDED THEM, not Cooper Union or Fordham U. Getting here legally NOW vs. getting here legally THEN, well it was easier then, much, much easier.
I doubt if before the Civil War there was legal or illegal. Considering how many of those Irish men right off the board fought in the Civil War, I expect someone rolled out the red carpet for them.
I don’t see any easy answers and I certainly don’t feel this is a binary problem with only 2 answers, right or wrong. The children of illegal immigrants who come to adulthood really does expose this flaw.
@cargosquid That was sarcasm, of course, Cargo, because George is talking out of two sides of his mouth. In a previous thread George was using that exact terminology regarding “ethnic cleansing” and “profiling,” yet he wants illegal immigrants deported. So it’s OK for him to want that, but when the rest of us here voice our concerns, George accuses us of racism. Glad your motives are so much purer than the rest of us, George.
“I AM NOT FOR WITCH HUNTS TO FERRET OUT LATINOS WHO ARE HERE ILLEGALLY, BUT IF THEY ARE DISCOVERED, THEY NEED TO…”
George, how do you “discover” “Latinos who are here illegally” (your words, not mine) if you can’t even check their status when they are caught doing something illegal? I sense you are just blowing some smoke here.
@Emma
How are they caught? Many ways–someone uses E-verify and discovers they are illegal and turns them in. The new program of scanning hiring records discovers them and they are picked up and deported. There are still “raids” that pick up illegals. In those locales that have laws that direct the LEOs to support ICE, people get checked when they are stopped for something and they are discovered. Again, I am not for witch hunts–is there some part of that you don’t understand? If so, please tell me what and I will try to simplify it so you can.
I have never discussed ethnic cleansing or profiling as a way to deal with illegals. When I have discussed those things it has been to point out that they are wrong.
I have said said I want all illegals deported, which apparently you do. I say if they are discovered, the must go. I seems tome you are for rounding up all 12 million, loading them in cattle cars and hauling them south. Now that is ethnic cleansing.
@DB
I don’t know what you do about illegal kids and apparently no one else does except a few on this blog who want all illegals deported. We have neglected the problem so long that there are no easy answers except for adults who illegally came here as adults. I have no sympathy for them when they are discovered/caught/uncovered or whatever term you chose to use for finding out they are here illegally. They came, they knew, they got caught. While I don’t know what the immigration laws are in other countries, from what I read and hear, they are very harsh with few, if any, exceptions.
@Moon-howler
You’re right about those kids and there has to be an answer. But what is it? I don’t have a clue.
I don’t know. I would suggest the dream act but not all are going to go to college. I suppose that should be part of CIR. But those kids have to have some accommodations, if they have finished school and/or gotten a job and kept their noses clean.
Now if they have joined gangs or stacked up a sizable police file, then ship them out of here. I have no mercy for habitual offenders.
@George S. Harris ” I seems tome you are for rounding up all 12 million, loading them in cattle cars and hauling them south. Now that is ethnic cleansing.”
I’ve never said any such thing, George.