I am actually horrified at Phillip Dennis’ rhetoric, starting the the double quarter-pounder and Rosie O’Donnell and finishing with him telling Hilary Shelton his organization is simply irrelevant and an extortion group. The sad thing is, I don’t even think Phillip Dennis realizes how inappropropriate he is.
How does someone tell the oldest civil rights organization that it is no longer relevant?
Phillip Dennis just made the NAACP’s case. Case closed.
Folks here are always demanding proof as in ‘how do you know they’re illegal?’ yet the NAACP can make condemnation resolutions on pure hearsay, and you defend them? Look, from what I understand there was a designated path around the demonstrators for the congressman to walk, and instead they decided to instigate a confrontation and walk directly through the protestors. Even if what they say happened, one incident by one or two individuals can’t be protracted to the entire population, otherwise you’d have a real problem defending illegal immigrants as a population. Blacks are always fighting stereotypes, and yet we have to listen to the NAACP stereotype a group of people solely because they are majority white! Talk about racism.
Actually I haven’t defended them. I spoke out against Phillip Dennis’s rhetoric. It certainly wasn’t helpful.
I was speaking only of the video.
I think everyone needs to go on the offensive about stereotyping.
I simply am not buying that there is no racism within the tea party movement. Sorry, they aren’t all saints. Plus I have seen and heard enough with my own two eyes and my own two ears.
Same can be said about the NAACP I’m sure. When was the last time they came out against any Black centric racist group? Did they apologize for the recent actions of the New Black Panther Party? This entire effort is to demonize an entire group of people over the actions of a very few. Gee, does that not sound familiar to you? How about the actions of the congressmen in trying to bring forth something that they could then use against the group? How about the fact that there hasn’t been one shred of video or audio evidence that the accusations have merit? You couldn’t win a court case based on the evidence, yet they can convict an entire group in the court of public opinion, or so they think. I think those days are long past, as we’ve seen far too much of the race card tactics to really care.
SA, Moon and others here need the tea party racist lable to justify that they are the centrists and that the tea party is not a large and growing grass roots response to the Obama agenda. Grass roots and conservative hyperbole is inexcusable while liberal and progressive agendas are only unreasonable to racists. This is why she is never going to agree with you that the NAACP is a racist and hypocritical group. Let it be.
I haven’t apologized for the Nazis either. I am white, they are white. Shame on me.
I have been thinking about this for a few hours. I feel certain that the BPs aren’t members of the NAACP. Why on earth should the NAACP apologize for the Panthers and their nasty behavior?
SA, I have seen signs and have heard remarks that I consider real bad taste. Other people might consider what I have seen to be racist. I saw some mighty questionable behavior that day everyone is denying back in March. The fact that no one recorded insulting remarks doesn’t surprise me. Wouldn’t that be rather self incriminating?
More to the point, when there is a collection of loosely connected groups nationwide, wouldn’t it surprise you if there weren’t people in it who display some racist behavior?
TP, you woke up another morning and are still full of crap. Tell me, what’s the difference in liberal and progressive agendas?
I don’t believe I have said that the Tea Party is a racist group, now have I? I said that there has been distasteful behavior displayed by some people who claim to be tea party people. That behavior might be considered racist by some people. Actually I am not very comfortable calling people racists so it has to be pretty blatant behavior for me to tote out the racist charge.
The Tea Party movement has an important message, a message that is inspired by the severe economic conditions that this country is currently experiencing. We have some serious problems: the short-term economic funk that we’re now in, the national debt and above all the retirement of the baby boomers. All of us can agree that we as a nation have some serious challenges ahead of us as well as some very serious decisions to make. The Tea Party is in response to that.
Whether you agree with their message or not or if you wonder why they didn’t bring up their message 8 years ago or 28 years ago, it’s still a voice in an important discussion.
Now here we find ourselves discussing racism instead of dealing with the pressing issues. Who cares? BFD! If some tea partiers are racist, so what? Does that invalidate their message?
How we as a nation deal with racial issues is paramount to our success as a country. To ignore these issues and not discuss them dooms us to repeat not only some of our own problems but also problems experienced by other countries.
There is also a strong link between how we deal with racial issues and the stresses placed on our economy.
It is perfectly obvious why ‘the message’ wasn’t brought up 8 years ago.
“How does someone tell the oldest civil rights organization that it is no longer relevant?”
They are clearly not relevant to anything much at all.
They are mainly known to younger people for putting on a prime-time awards show once a year at which black singers and actors validate their blackness (which is marketable) and which “Image” awards are laugahbly doled out to large contributors regaredless of the image the actually project during the year.
It’s pretty evident that the NAACP is way past archaic.
So you think that meathead who starts off his conversation talking about Rosie O’Donnell is the person to enlighten the NAACP that is it no longer relevant? Give me a break. He was totally inappropriate and has no business telling anyone anything.
I don’t think it is up to me to evaluate the NAACP’s relevancy. They have been around a long time and the organization provides a focal point for America. That organization is probably the one that comes to mind the most when one free associates about black civil rights groups.
Who would you have replace them? @ Rick
Really, its perfectly obvious why “the message” wasn’t brought up 8 years ago?
Was the economy tanking 8 years ago? Was there out of control, trillion+ dollar deficit spending 8 years ago? Was there a Congress that passed enormous bills that take control of large sectors of our private sector 8 years ago? Were there industries being bought out or controlled by the executive branch 8 years ago? Were there bailouts 8 years ago? Was there a Congress that showed contempt for Americans 8 years ago? Calling us nazis? Saying that we’re racists because we protest policy? Lying about violence on our side while ignoring violence against us? Are you saying that the Tea Party needed to suddenly spring completely whole into existence at the first sign of GWB’s deficit spending 8 years ago?
Let me be clear. Are you implying that the Tea Party didn’t show up 8 years ago because there was a white President in office? Are you joining with the NAACP to state that the Tea Party is racist? Is that what’s supposed to be obvious?
I just watched that idiot Shelton debate, again, about the NAACP “condemnation” of racism in the Tea Party. His stance, NOW, is that the Tea party isn’t racist, but that it needs to repudiate any racism in its ranks. That the leaders need to do so. He is ignoring or ignorant that the TP does not have central leaders and that we have been doing so since the beginning. His evidence are signs that have been seen at rallies. Of course, his side has said that they infiltrate the rallies to show racism, etc, for bad PR against the Tea Party.
He continues to spread the lie that the racist slurs were used at the DC rally and that the Congressman was spit upon. He states that there is no evidence because “if it happens where there is no filming, it doesn’t happen?”, while ignoring the fact that Congressman Jackson was FILMING THE ENTIRE MARCH with not 1 but 2 cameras. That supposed witnesses have changed their stories many times. That there were hundreds of cameras there that day and that witnesses for the TP state that it didn’t happen. So, whose witnesses have more evidence?
The NAACP has been backpedaling because they have been getting a lot of flak for their racist condemnation. When Shelton was called on the fact that the group has not condemned the New Black Panther Party, he had to resort to double talk and dance around the issue, mentioning that the group had called for civility in politics. They CAN’T name the New Black Panthers as a racist group because some of their members support them. The NAACP has morphed from a fine civil rights org into a racist organization that acts as a support group for the Democrat party.
Btw, in a roundabout way, the NRA is the oldest civil rights group for blacks. They advocated that EVERYONE should be allowed to own weapons, not just whites. Why does the NAACP support civil rights restrictions on blacks when it comes to the 2nd Amendment.
In the end, I think that the NAACP is afraid of the Tea Party and its colorblind ideals. I think that, unless the cry of racism is continually shouted, that many black Americans would gravitate towards such groups. It was only a few years ago that the NAACP was bemoaning the fact that new members were few and far between; that the younger blacks looked down upon and considered irrelevant, the NAACP.
In this way, the NAACP and the NRA resemble each other. Without an obvious threat, they lose power. The NAACP is trying to ramp up the “threat” prior to the elections in order to get out the black vote. Without that vote, many Democrats are losers. And then comes 2012……this is only a practice run.
Dennis was abrasive, yes. And Shelton was a blowhard devoid of content or purpose.
Who should replace them? NO ONE.
@Moon-howler
If they do fade away, why replace them at all? Why do we need an organization for the “advancement of colored people” anymore? Why do we need to separate ourselves according to race?
What we need is COLOR BLIND organizations. Its a new world. We need to put actions to MLK’s words and judge by character not skin color. As long as the NAACP associates with race hustlers like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, the NAACP will be perceived as a racist organization by those of us that refuse to use the color of skin to judge anyone.
I can’t speak for the NAACP. Perhaps THEY feel relevant. I would say they can have whatever organizations they want.
First, telling any organization they are irrelevant is illogical. If they were, they would not exist. Apparently, many, many people believe the NAACP still IS relevant because they have a national membership.
Second, dismissing any group, even one you don’t like, is foolhardy. All groups have something to say, and there is a reason they are saying it. That said, you have a choice. You can ignore the group, but you might be missing out on something important. You can endorse or join the group, or you can speak out against the group. Sure, this might validate the group is relevant, but as I said before, all groups are inherently relevant.
Finally, the NAACP is very much alive and needed in our communities. The local NAACP does studied on minority communities, identifies socio-economic problems and works to alleviate those problems. They do public outreach, perform community services and work with other groups. How is that irrelevant?
Pinko makes some good points here. The NAACP, however is not the only community oriented organization that coud provide those services. Is it relevent on a national scale – no, not really and that is why its senior officals are calling the Tea Party – generically – racists – to get some attention and to feed into the Democarat Party’s clearly coordinated talking points. They need to reactivate the Obama base. I think liberal and progressives should be embarassed by this appeal to racism, but then we are talking about it and, unfortunatley, some idiots are talking as if the charge had validity.
I think that any group that concentrates on those things is relevant. However, the inclusion of a race based element is irrelevant. The leaders of the the NAACP increasingly use their power to hector those that they disagree with. Not racists. Not bigots. They hector private enterprise and conservatives/GOP targets. They hey increasingly use the tactics of Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson to extort concession quotas. They increasingly INVENT enemies. The LA chapter demanded that Hallmark remove cards talking about, in context, “black holes,” saying that it sounds to close to “black ho’s.” Really? This is a sign of relevance? This is advancing civil rights?
Michelle Malkin says it better than I do: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columns/NAACP_s-long-march-toward-irrelevance-1000359-98419834.html#ixzz0trOl7PtB
The group no longer represents the best interests of oppressed minorities, but the thin-skinned whims of the black elite and the ravenous appetite of the Nanny State. Establishment civil rights leaders now use their once-compelling moral authority to hector, bully and shake down corporate and political targets.
As Ward Connerly, the truly maverick opponent of government racial preferences who is black, wrote recently, “the NAACP is not so much a civil-rights organization as it is a trade association with clear links to the Democratic Party, despite the claim of its chairman that ‘the NAACP has always been non-partisan.’ Such a statement doesn’t pass the giggle test. The NAACP uses the plight of poor black people as a fig leaf to hide its true agenda of promoting policies that benefit their dues-paying members, not black people in general or poor black people in particular.”
The NAACP resolution calls on its chapters across the country to “repudiate the racism of the Tea Parties” and stand against the movement’s attempt to “push our country back to the pre-civil rights era.” Yet, it’s the NAACP that lobbied the Obama White House to dismiss voter intimidation charges against the thugs of the New Black Panther Party, according to Justice Department whistleblower J. Christian Adams.
It’s the NAACP that opposes the 21st century school choice movement to free poor minority students from rotten government schools, as black parents in Washington, D.C., have suffered firsthand. It’s the NAACP that elevates “diversity” above academic rigor as its primary education goal. And it’s the NAACP that backs retrograde, race-based set-asides and classifications that encourage cronyism of color championed by their water-carriers at the Congressional Black Caucus.
And it’s the NAACP that tolerates racist sneers and smears like those leveled by the St. Louis NAACP chapter against black limited-government activist Kenneth Gladney, who was derided by civil rights leaders as an “Uncle Tom” after he was beaten bloody by Service Employees International Union henchmen last summer.
TP, they didn’t call the Tea Party racist. They called upon the various tea parties to repudiate those followers who had racist behaviors. Big difference. Don’t take my word for it. Listen to the video.
I have very bad blog burn out at the moment because I have never heard so much negativity in many decades. I hear a lot of unsubstantiated charges against the NAACP.
As for the constant hue and cry that there are no videos that show anyone in that huge crowd of people being racially mistreated, I am simply not going to by that as proof nothing happened.
You put a couple thousand people in an area …with raw emotion and statistics in not on your side. Additionally, logic tells me that the people standing out on the Capital grounds wouldn’t hone a camera in on someone ‘misbehaving.’ I sure wouldn’t.
To me, its one person’s word against another. That doesn’t mean nothing happened. What I saw on tape sure looked like something was going on.
Just out of curiosity, let me try to figure out who the enemy du jour is….is it illegal immigrants? NAACP members? Panthers? Democrats? Obama? RINOS?
All must be hideous human beings.
@cargosquid
My impression is the national chapter is much different from the local chapters that don’t care as much about media coverage as they do the issues.
PWC, why do you think this has to do with parties? I’m curious.
“However, the inclusion of a race based element is irrelevant.”
That’s how I see it. The NAACP is as valid and important as a NAAWP if there is one. Most people don’t care, and they shouldn’t.
The NAACP has been shown the polls for November. Panic time. Desperation measures needed. Dept. of Labor stats for 2 July showed the following unemployment numbers: Asian 7.7%; White 8.6%; Hispanic 12.4%; Black 15.4%. That’s just for those looking for work and doesn’t include those who have given up. The numbers are not budging, especially for Blacks. Need to distract our voters. Play the big race card. Sort of like bread and circuses, you know.
Nice move, NAACP. In the long run you are going to lose a lot of goodwill built up over the past several decades. Wonder exactly who induced you to go this route only a couple of months from what could be an electoral disaster for the Dems?
I don’t think this is necessarily uncharted waters for the NAACP.
To imply that their request for the tea parties to weed out racism in the ranks is a fairly simple request. Why doesn’t the tea party (collectively or independently) simply say we do not and will not tolerate racial depictions or statements in our ranks. That is a real simple thing to say and would probably satisfy most of the membership of the NAACP.
Then all the lawn jockey statues, racial pictures on posters of the Prez, and inappropriate remarks that I have personally witnessed should stop. If I know someone considers themself to be a tea party person and that person has pictures of the President as a lawn jockey statue, then what conclusions do I draw?
How many times do these denials have to be voiced by people in the Tea Party? Every day? Every week? Shall we put it on tape and play it at a specified time every day? Didn’t Phillip Dennis make that very denial in this video? What is ultimately required here by the NAACP? Sackcloth and ashes? Tea Party people engaging in self-flagellation?
No matter how many times you say it, there will always be those who insult you by claiming your denial is insufficient. Getting pretty damned sick of that myself. The NAACP has been hearing people in the Tea Party express these denials ever since the alleged incidents in that Washington D.C. demonstration against health care reform. And they still require that it be said over and over again? Nope. In my opinion, this current brouhaha is a political gambit by those who have realized that they may well be in political extremis on far different grounds.
The lawn jockeys, the racial posters, the “inappropriate” remarks may come from individuals claiming to be a part of the “Tea Party” movement. You can scold them as individuals. I can deny any alliance with them as individuals But what none of us can do is form a posse and hunt them down like a vigilante group, because we will run smack dab into the First Amendment. Tough to accept sometimes, but there it is.
So, let me continue with this idea of generalizations. Not only have certain radical members of the African-American community called openly for the killing of White babies and other “Crackers”, some have also called for killing all the “Zionists” in Israel. So, now those guys have got me pissed off royally on two counts. Let us hear the NAACP roundly denounce these people and clearly exile them for their midst. If that does not happen, then perhaps I should conclude that these are the sentiments of the bulk of the African-American community. (Understand that is not actually the way I think, but it sure is easy to translate the actions of the few into a general condemnation of the whole. It seems to be getting more common in this country every day.)
Quite frankly, I am personally getting sick and tired of hearing the word “racism” tossed around all the time. You can hardly express an honest opinion on any issue anymore without someone piping up with this sort of accusation. If this keeps up, the following may well happen with regard to those unjustly accused: (1) outrage; (2) angry retorts; (3) refusal to engage in further communication; (4) long-term hostility; and then possibly the big, big kahuna of them all: true racial enmity born of constant conflict — the very thing about which the accusers seem so deathly worried.
I don’t want this country going down that path. I think a lot of us have to start cooling those jets and start talking to each other without the accusations. I have long been a supporter of much of what the NAACP has done in the past and is still trying to do, but the NAACP in this instance is not helping. I mentioned in several previous posts the great problems being encountered by African-Americans in the unemployment area and the absolute moral imperative on the part of all of us to help those citizens whose ancesters have been here longer than most of our own. It is not for nothing that I just brought up in a previous post the current 15.4% base unemployment rate for Blacks, the highest of any group in the country. Let me hear the NAACP address that critical problem instead of lumping Tea Party people like myself in with individuals they deem to be racist and over whom I have absolutely no control.
Wolverine, why is Phillip Dennis’s word more important and valid than Hilary Shelton’s?
Why are the men who said they were called names and spit on not believed? A huge crowd like that? I imagine there would be people in a crowd that large who demonstrated unacceptable behavior. Ever been to a huge demonstration? IN the first place, no one can be everyone at once. No camera can be on every group.
The denial is getting pretty ridiculous. Human nature being what it is, I am betting on a few racist remarks being hurled. By whom? Who knows.
What is so difficult about saying, we do not condone racist behavior rather than stonewalling?
Furthermore, the black panthers have nothing to do with with the NAACP. I have heard people on TV insisting that the NAACP apologize for the panthers. How absurd. That insistance in itself is fairly racist. Why would the NAACP be responsible for the Panthers? Because they are black is the only reason I can think of…and that just doesn’t sit real well with anyone.
I rarely use the word racist. I, like you, got tired of it a long time ago. It is too often bandied about. On the other hand, what other word does one use for the Panthers?
As for other issues, the NAACP addressed many other issues. This is just the only one that got any headlines. And do I need to ask what news media started beating the drum slowly on this one.
Apparently the NAACP only condemns white racism. Black racism is ok.
http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/2010/07/oops-naacp-should-have-scrubbed-their-rally-video-with-farrakhan-before-they-started-pointing-fingers-at-tea-party-patriots-video/
We call for the repudiation of racist NAACP leaders. We condemn the bigoted elements within the NAACP and ask for them to be repudiated
We take no issue with the NAACP. We believe in freedom of assembly and people raising their voices in a democracy. What we take issue with is the NAACP’s continued tolerance for bigotry and bigoted statements. The time has come for them to accept the responsibility that comes with influence and make clear there is no place for racism & anti-Semitism, homophobia and other forms of bigotry in their movement.
We ask that Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and other leaders of the NAACP repudiate the racist elements of their group and disassociate themselves from racist elements.
@Moon-howler
The NAACP LOBBIED for the charges to be dropped against the New Black Panthers. That is why the NAACP finds itself aligned with an apparently terrorist style group.
Hilary Shelton’s word is less convincing because the supposed actions took place in a specific area, within the focus of 100’s, if not 1000’s of recording devices, including those of the supposed victims. The only thing that could possibly be said is that one man was sprayed with spittle when he walked closely in front of a shouting protesters. He was not purposely spit upon. When the first story lost traction, the story changed to a different location and time with other supposed witnesses. That witness said that he was not there and heard no slurs when he was with them earlier. They are repeating unproven accusations. One is innocent until proven guilty. If one makes an accusation, then provide proof. The Black Caucus is not a group of innocents. They are used to making accusations and having the alleged perpetrators run away in fear of the word racist. The Black Caucus has discovered that the story of the “Boy who cried wolf” has a basis in truth.
If the NAACP is going to call for the Tea Party to dissociate themselves from bigots; bigots that have a right of assembly too, and are not specifically invited, then they should do the same to the bigots with whom their group is voluntarily associating with.
It seems so much easier just do say we don’t tolerate racist behavior rather than all this one upsmanship.
The issue wasn’t just about the capital grounds. It is about the continual sightings of inappropriate signs at rallies and remarks on blogs. Any time there is a large gathering of grassroots people there is the risk of having people latch on to you that perhaps you are uncomfortable with.
I once had to get rid of someone in an organization I chaired, here in PWC, who said they were a klan member. It isn’t easy but you suck it up and handle it. It wasn’t an organization where you might expect to find a klansman.
Cargo, people who say they are tea party have done some thing that I have found to be questionable. ….at least questionable enough to think the R word. If I have seen it, its out there. Maybe I just know bigger low lifes than everyone else. I would never deny that I don’t know people who say and do things that could be construed as …dreaded word…racist.
The Tea Party continually repudiates hate of any sort. Are there hyperbolic signs? Yes. But out and out racism is repudiated. The NAACP, with its calls for our “leaders” to repudiate racism is a no win situation. When the spokeswoman on Fox, at the latest debate, did so, Shelton immediately used it as a “See, there is racism in your organization.” The Tea Party does not have leaders. Shelton’s reported use of Armey’s name as a leader is also a trap. The TP has never acknowledged Armey as a leader of anything Tea Party. That’s why, in my previous comment, I used Sharpton and Jackson as leaders of the NAACP. The most recent attack on the Tea Party associates the movement with StormFront and the KKK.
http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/2010/07/disgusting-naacp-leader-ben-jealous-links-tea-party-to-kkk-storm-front-and-david-duke/
That statement that Duke has said that “thousands of TP members” support him does not seem to have any basis in reality. He is trying to jump on the bandwagon. When you see Tea Party statements supporting him in the press, then I’ll believe it. Of course the KKK and Stormfront will claim support. Again, when you see the support statements from the Tea Party, that’s when you can call the TP racist.
As to those signs? Just a sampling of what the Tea Party has to put up with:
http://www.rightklik.net/2010/07/think-progress-lies-and-deception.html
Are you even sure that Sharpton and Jackson are members of the NAACP?
I don’t see why this situation has become a 10 in the national news. It should be a 1. the NAACP has called for the collective organizations know as the Tea Party to repudiate racism amongst their ranks. I would just simply say, we don’t condone it and will quickly act to remove it if we see it. How simple. That is a win/win situation.
I see that the one example I was thinking of here in Manassas as vanished…gone. Tea Party blogger must have listened, finally, to his friends and acquaintances who told him to take down a blog thread with very questionable material on it. Those are the things I am talking about.
And now because it is gone, there is no audio or visual record of it…or is there? Does that mean it didn’t happen?
All it takes is one situation like that to paint an entire movement. Just one. Saying there is only one doesn’t change things. That’s why it behooves the various spokespeople of TP just to say they don’t accept it and won’t tolerate it rather than arguing that it doesn’t exist.
I used them as an example of straw men. Armey is NOT a leader of the TP. Yet, Shelton continues to say that he needs to repudiate racism in the Tea Party. So I used them in the same way.
The Tea Party ALREADY refuses to condone any racism. How many times do the members of the TP have to say that? The NAACP doesn’t accept the statement. They continue to ramp up racist associations that have no basis in reality. The TP does not state that racism doesn’t exist. We state that the Tea Party is not racist. We have as many racists showing up at rallies as the NAACP has racists showing up at theirs.
This concern about racism is not about racism. It s a political weapon to rouse the NAACP’s members and blacks in general and to put the terms racism and Tea Party together in the news. The NAACP refuses to accept the fact that nothing happened at the DC rally. They continue to spread lies. They associate the TP, now, with Storm Front and David Duke. Those people claim that they have TP support. Unfortunately, for them, no Tea Party group has come out in support of them. Individuals may support them. But no Tea Party group.
The NAACP is trying to state that because individuals, that do not show racism while at Tea Party events, that show support elsewhere for racism, that the Tea Party is racist.
And then, any protestations by the Tea Party, or big refutations that state “we repudiate racism” is used by the NAACP to state, “see! they are a racist organization.”
The Tea Party should do what the NAACP wants when the NAACP repudiates the racism of THEIR members. And disassociate themselves with Nation of Islam, Sharpton, New Black Panthers, etc.
@Cargo, #33 Armey was instrumental as an organizer of TP. I guess if there are no leaders and everyone is just free wheeling then it is hard to pin anything, good or bad, on anyone.
Frankly, I don’t care. The TP and the NAACP can do the words sparing thing until the cows come home. NAACP is being asked to take responsiblity for everything anyone black does that is negative. I wouldn’t want to claim Armey either. If the TP has no formal organization and no leadership, how can anyone say it isn’t racist or anything else for that matter? You do see the why the perception is out there, don’t you? Mind you, I am not saying the TP is racist. I am saying that I have seen some things that are very questionable come from TP ‘members.’
I don’t accept that nothing happened at the DC rally and I am a long way from being an NAACP member. I have been to enough rallies in my day to know that not everything is seen and not everything is captured on camera and if it is, it sure isn’t going to be turned over to someone who is going to make it public. Human nature and experience has taught be that. A not guilty verdict doesn’t necessarily mean innocent. More than anything else, I believe in the law of probability, as it relates to mankind and demonstration mentality.
Not all blacks belong to the NAACP. If one of their members does something in while under the NAACP banner, then they should condemn that person. they shouldn’t have to go condemn someone not acting on their behalf, just because that person is black. I feel confident that fool with the panthers is not an NAACP member. I don’t think the Nation of Islam is an NAACP member either, or Sharpton. He runs his own show. Jackson, maybe.
Finally, on the subject of NAACP, I think that organization is mostly the old guard…people who still feel the need to be the nation’s watchdog on discrimination. Perhaps they jump the gun sometimes, but I think it is good that they feel they are still watching over things. There were too many years they had no voice. I can forgive that.
I don’t know who storm front is…and I thought David Duke was totally irrelevant.
I have lived around this kind of crap my entire life and nothing I do will change anything.
You know what? Forget it.
I’m tired of repeating the obvious. Apparently the Tea Party is to be held to a higher standard. “All it takes is one situation like that to paint an entire movement. Just one.”
If that’s the standard to which a national, de-centralized, independent movement has to live up to, and the NAACP can associate with bigots, homophopes, race hustlers, and violent rabble rousers, then….forget it. I’m done.
Same thing with the finance problem and health care, etc. Every time that evidence is shown that the left, the progressives, the corrupt, or the liberals are enacting bills to enrich themselves and their friends and give the federal gov’t more power, it seems that everyone involved has halos.
We bring up the GOP involvement when it relates. We try to show the evidence impartially. And ….nothing. Are you looking at any of the links? Are you judging what we say by the evidence? Or are you just so comfortable with the idea that the Democrats are “for the little guy and evil corporations are out to get us” that you can’t see that the current crop of corrupt, evil bastards in Congress and the White House are trying to change the government into an unaccountable regulatory system that will continue to push the progressive and liberal agenda no matter who is elected?
This executive branch has seized unprecedented authority over the economy and this Congress has enable it. Apparently Congress doesn’t care if it loses its authority as long as it still has its perks and can now push off any blame toward the “regulatory agencies.”
If you can’t see this, or even believe that its possible, then ….bye.
I am not in either party. In my life I have been both a D and an R, at different times of course.
Truthfully, there has been so much demonizing of the Democrats by Republicans and conservatives that I have more sympathy than I usually do.
Cargo, I just don’t see the TP as impartial. I see that is has its own world view/agenda and I am not comfortable with it. I can almost predict what is going to be said. I can’t stand what is being spouted by Beck, who is a self annointed TP cheer leader.
We will never agree on Dodd or the financial package. I don’t see him as an evil corrupt person like you do. I have admired Mark Warner for many years. He feels the bill is a good one. We all aren’t going to agree.
As for the NAACP, it isn’t my favorite group and has never been. It is interested in ethnic issues for the most part and I feel it has exaggerated situations at times. I pretty much ignore the organization. Again, listening to the Tea Party People talk on TV and listening to Fox News, I am not dismissing them as I normally would.
I think to the average joe on the street, it is all just becoming one big turn off.
All this race crap is making me sick. Who on earth takes the black panthers seriously? I didn’t take the first batch seriously and I don’t take these little racist thugs who have been named as a hate group by both SPLC and ADL seriously either. The charge got dropped because no one person complained that their voting rights were taken away or that they didn’t vote because of it.
Cargo, we are just going to have to agree that we don’t have the same world view on this sort of thing. I doubt we will ever agree. If I could just talk to you or Wolverine and if I didn’t have to continually hear Fox News skew every iota of news and if I didn’t have to listen to that absurd crybaby Glenn Beck I might be able to have a more productive conversation. The media simply has too much power nowadays. We have dueling world views being played out on TV and on the internet.
Moon, in response to #25:
Dennis or Shelton? Quite frankly, your question of comparative importance and validity never crossed my mind. Both men had something to say but said it badly. Hilary made claims of racism that were generalized at first and only later tried to parse it by referring to specific elements allegedly connected to the Tea Party. All he succeeded in doing was to make me angry at his generalizations. Dennis’ response, even though it contained the denial, was lousy in its choice of words and expressions. They had a chance to have a productive intellectual exchange on the subject, and both blew it. In my opinion, the video represented no forward movement of any kind on the part of either man toward understanding. They only succeeded in fanning the flames on both sides.
The Washington Demonstration: Even if there were such incidents, they had to be extremely few and far between. You and I have been around this city long enough to know that every demonstration has its “bad actors.” This cannot be a justification for a condemnation of an entire demonstration or group. I once described here an unfortunate incident at the Arlington grave of a young Air Force officer killed in Vietnam. Not long after that, on campus, I came across an anti-war protest consisting largely of speeches and read-ins. I did not agree with the opinions of those protesters, but I recognized their right of free speech and thought. Nearby, I ran across a young demonstrator dressed in parts of an Air Force uniform decorated with Cracker Jack prizes and with a toy propellor on top of his cap. His disdain for and insults to our military personnel were plain for all to see. My inclination was to kick the ass of that young demonstrator, especially so soon after the incident at Arlington. But I would have been dead wrong to lay his sins at the feet of those other demonstrators, who were peacefully going about expressing their freedom of thought and expression.
Stonewalling? Virtually every disclaimer I have heard from anyone claiming to be a spokesman, if there really is any such thing on a national basis, for the Tea Party crowd, has either included the expression “do not condone” or something with the same meaning. That started immediately after the demonstration. I myself have expressed the view that I do not condone a display of racist actions or weapons at Tea Party events because that just serves to harm the true and genuine intent of the movement. I ask once again: how many times does this have to be said before these disclaimers are accepted as a true expression of our majority views? I intend to say it no more unless I actually see someone attaching himself or herself to the Tea Party movement in the future and conducting themselves in a manner unacceptable to me. Then I will speak. But I refuse any longer to go around repeating the denial as a required mantra because someone else thinks I have to do that in order to justify my overall political position.
The NAACP and the New Black Panther Party (NBPP): The statements of the members of the NBPP are given much play by a media always seeking the sensational. Those statements have become an express intent to create hostility and fear. Whether the African-American populace likes it or not, those statements will get reflected back at them in general unless the leaders and others among them stand up and condemn such calls for violence against another race. They would rightly expect the same from Whites like myself if the KKK began to march again and called for violence against Blacks and Jews. Unfortunately in my opinion, the DOJ decision on the NBPP incident at Philadelphia did nothing to calm this thing down. Once again, a bad decision served only to fan the flames. Sometimes it seems to me like certain people on both sides of the aisle are either intentionally trying to stir the flames of racial divide or are too dense to see the likely results of their actions; and we too often let them get away with it.
The NAACP and other issues: Agreed. There are other issues. The media, left or right, always seems anxious to focus on the sensational. Like me, you probably remember when the applicable expression was a need to sell papers. In that context, it is imperative, in my opinion, that any organization must endeavor to cut this kind of media play off at the knees and make every effort to refocus the debate on those issues which are critical. That is precisely why I applauded the speech of the First Lady at the NAACP convention. She started off with the usual bow to history and the great work done in the past by the NAACP and then urged a continuation of that work, but then she launched into an immediate need and priority on which so many of us can agree regardless of ethnicity. Unlike what transpires at so many other public events these days, she left me not angry but very satisified that someone at her level has determined to try to do something about such an issue of common concern. The color of her skin had no role in this whatsoever, no matter what she looks like and where she was giving that speech. Damned good job on her part.
Wolverine, I agree 95% with pretty much everything you say.
Shelton and Dennis might have had a more productive conversation in a less volitile environment with a moderator who attempted to find common ground rather than to throw out raw meat for the lions.
You did applaud the First Lady’s speech. Yours was the only applause I heard though. There was lots of criticism out there. I don’t think we have the right, as white people, to tell a predominently black group that they are irrelevant. They don’t feel they are and it doesn’t matter what I think.
The racial blasts from last week make me very uncomfortable. Presidential lawn jockeys are horrible taste. The president shown as a monkey is horrible taste. Because the Prez is the first black president, people do have to be careful in their presentations.
And yes, you and I have kicked around enough to know this stuff, especially when it comes to demonstrations. Bad apples will glam on. Years ago, my husband and I had gone to a demonstration over women’s issue. Everyone took a bathroom break up in one of the national buildings..the arbitorim as I recall. When I came out my husband complained that a group of young militant females had come charging in the men’s room, told all the men to get out and that they were commandeering the bathroom. Nothing like pissing off the very people who had come to support them. Bad apples. Their behavior was NOT helpful to anything.
I just wish the NAACP would call out the racism in their own group… federally appointed NAACP member admits not fully helping a farmer because he was white:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_xCeItxbQY&feature=player_embedded
@Hello,
You don’t know that she wasn’t renounced. You also don’t know that she was a member of the NAACP. She might very well have been a guest speaker.
The fact that Hilary Shelton says that the NAACP denounces racism is a step in the right direction. Removing Williams from whatever position he held is a step in the right direction. This is not a tit for tat situation. It sounds like middle school from the on-lookers. ‘Well he did it. no he did it first.’ It shouldn’t be going on out of anyone.