I have had many debates about this Cultural Center near the remains of the World Trade Center. For me, it is not just about upholding our constitution, it is about expressing to the world that as Americans we truly believe in our Democracy, that we are not hypocrites, that we are NOT afraid of Islam.
My brother who lives in NYC fully supports this center. People who I know that survived the attack on 9/11, support this center.
I read a wonderful article on the Imam, sent my way from a dear friend who is Muslim, and we had a wonderful exchange. Before people go screaming in fear and hysteria, I would recommend reading this very informative piece on the imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, the man who had the vision and dream for this project.
I wanted to share story by NPR, for it gave me hope that maybe in all this fear, anger and hatred, their is hope 
after all.
There apparently were some ugly moments during Sunday’s dueling protests in New York City over the plan to build an Islamic center and mosque near Ground Zero.
Salon.com and John Cole onBalloonJuice.com pointed out the nasty moment that occurred when a black man wearing a skull cap like those many football players use under their helmets, walked through the crowd of anti-mosque protesters and became the target of the bile of some in the crowd who thought he was Muslim.
Turns out, he wasn’t. Watching the video, it isn’t hard to imagine how badly the situation could’ve turned out if cooler heads hadn’t prevailed.
But while some who protested the mosque clearly weren’t the best role models of how to behave in crowds, it would be unfair to suggest that they all were, as John Cole puts it, “mouth-breathers.”
In the very same video, there’s a man who appears to be with the anti-mosque protesters, who puts himself between the black man and a beefy guy in a construction hat who seems to want to escalate the confrontation.
The New York Times also describes another redemptive scene. When a pro-mosque protester carrying a sign that said religious freedom is what made the U.S. great, confronted the antis, a man got in his face and said if the police weren’t around, he’d be in trouble.
Fortunately, the police escorted the pro-mosque man, medical student Michael Rose, away.
But the anti-mosque protester who had gotten in his face followed and caught up to Rose after a few blocks .
The NYT goes on to report:
Then the man stuck out a hand and, in a terse voice, said, “I’m sorry.”
“You have a right,” he told Mr. Rose. (He would not give his name.) “I am sorry for what I said to you. I disagree with you completely, but you have a right.”
Maybe the unbuilt Islamic center which is, in fact, fairly far from getting off the ground, is having a positive impact as it generates such scenes of random kindness amid the furor.
The right-wing, blinded by its own hysteria
By Eugene Robinson
Tuesday, August 24, 2010
When did the loudmouths of the American right become such a bunch of fraidy-cats and professional victims? Or is it all just an act?
The hysteria over plans for an innocuous Muslim community center in Lower Manhattan — two blocks from Ground Zero, amid an urban hodgepodge of office buildings, eateries and strip clubs — is wildly out of proportion. It would be laughable if it didn’t threaten to do great harm to the global campaign against Islamic terrorism.
It is by now firmly established that the project, dubbed Park51, is promoted by a peacenik Muslim cleric whose sermons often sound a bit like the musings of new-age guru Deepak Chopra. It is also undisputed fact that the imam in question, Feisal Abdul Rauf, is such a moderate that the U.S. government regularly sends him as an emissary to Muslim countries to preach peace, coexistence and dialogue.
Yet right-wing commentators and politicians have twisted themselves in knots to portray the Park51 project as a grievous assault — and “the American people” as victims. Victims of what? Rauf’s sinister plot to despoil the city with a fitness center, a swimming pool and — shudder — a space for the performing arts?
The whole “controversy” is ridiculous. Yet conservatives who should know better are doing their best to exploit widespread ignorance about Islam by transforming it into fear and anger. They imply, but don’t come right out and say, that it was Islam itself that attacked the United States on Sept. 11, 2001, rather than an extremist fringe that espouses what the vast majority of the world’s Muslims consider a perversion of the faith. They paint Park51 as a “victory dance” over the hallowed ground where thousands of Americans died — never mind that there wouldn’t even be a sight line between the building and Ground Zero — and suggest that the project, even though it would be run by an imam who’s practically a flower child, could somehow serve as a recruiting center for terrorists.
Message to anyone who will listen: You’re a victim. Be very afraid.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/23/AR2010082303743.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
Good points. These right wingers are the biggest babies and whiners I’ve ever seen in my life.
I heard one solution on Cspan yesterday. Have the Imam donate his $100M to rebuilding the trade center and reserve the topmost floor for a mosque. All sides win.
You scared me there for a minute, I thought you were talking about the ground zero mosque, but hey a cultural center why who could object. Has anyone interviewed people who were friends with the 9/11 bastards? I bet they had the same flowing praise for them also.
Be careful what you wish for!
BS in VA, that’s a great idea only don’t let them use the elevators!
Excellent cover story in Time this week on this very subject. It’s called something like “Is America Islamaphobic?” By reading some comments on this proposed center, it certainly seems so. In this article, they cite a Muslim doctor in Ohio that wanted to building a mosque on land he owned and he was shocked when the crazies showed up at the board meeting to speak against it. One guy said “it is not American” to build a mosque. What the H%*%! What is wrong with people?!
I honestly just don’t get the outrage. People have anger and they seem to be misplacing it all over the place these days. I just feel like people need to get over the fact that Christianity is not the only religion in the world, not everyone is heterosexual, not everyone was lucky enough to be born in this country, but that doesn’t need to mean that we act as though we are superior and can’t let anyone else in that didn’t have that good fortune. The minds seem to be getting narrower on every issue. It’s scary.
I just read the Time article also, and I know that the acts of 9/11 coupled with all the reported acts of terrorism around the world help to instill this dislike of all Islam. I think it only natural, and until those of Islam start showing more support for the US and fight terrorism openly, then we in the US will always be suspicious of their true motives. The one underlying theme was that the most vocal people are calling the Muslim religion one of violence, and I certainly can understand that based on world events. Christians are taught to ‘turn the other cheek’ while Muslims commit jihad. Big big difference!
Whats scary Twinad is the compulsion to give into the fears of retribution and to political correctness while spitting in the eye of those who sufferred directly and indirectly from the attack. There is absolutely no reason why this mosque, this monument to Islam and to the attackers, this counter monument to those who died in the attack, this conscious, manipulative provocation to energize muslems to hate america – knowing full well what the vast majority’s reaction would be — has to be built here. Just as the Pope stopped the nuns from building a convent next to Auchwitz, so too must Muslems step forward to stop this insult. The reaction in Tenessee and other places would not be occuring if a bit of sanity, understanding and manners were expressed. This “cultural center” will stand as a monument to indifference, hate for America and the horror of 9/11. Perhaps you don’t think that that is what Iran has in mind when if offers financial support to the effort.
I am no big fan of the ex British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, but I do respect her intelligence. She poignantly said, “Europe was created by history. America was created by philosophy.” I couldn’t agree more. It’s that philosophy of a higher ideal which makes America much more than a mere political entity. And today, that philosophy is being tested!
I am a Muslim. My cousin, in his mid-20s, died at the WTC on 9-11. His pregnant wife went into a shock as she heard the news, was rushed to the hospital, and gave birth to a girl just a few hours later – the first baby born of a 9-11 victim – a Muslim baby who stands as a resounding challenge to everything the so-called Muslim terrorists believed. We need more challenges to the twisted outlooks of all who believe in hate.
Thank you, dear Elena!
The Network of Terror … or as the blindly obedient call it, Fox News. Here’s an article on how Rupert Murdoch doesn’t just “pals around” with Saudi Prince Al-Waleed, they’ve invested billions in each others businesses. http://www.bobcesca.com/blog-archives/2010/08/whoops_fox_news.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter (For those of you who like to stereotype with broad brushes recall that Bin Laden and 15 of the 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia). Al-Waleed is a primary backer of Imam Rauf, the man behind what the bigots … I mean patriots … call the Victory Mosque at Ground Zero. Beck and Hannity and Billo and Rove are on contract to Rupe and Rupe is in bed with Al-Waleed and Al-Waleed is best buds with Rauf (I wish I had Beck’s chalk board so I could connect the dots for the blindly obedient who depend on that sort of thing to achieve clarity in their thinking). Might as well get Beck some overalls and a trowel and let him get started on his boss’s buddy’s BFF’s mosque.
According to the United States Constitution, all of us have the right to worship as we please. Muslims have just as much right as Christians, Jews or atheists.
Also, what we do with private property is none of the government’s business. Private property rights are also embedded in the Constitution.
We must respect the United States Constitution.
Claudy bomb: Police Ombudsman report due into NI attack
Nine people, including an eight-year-old girl, were killed in the village of Claudy in one of the most controversial incidents of the Troubles.
There was an alleged deal between the UK government and the Catholic Church not to arrest Father James Chesney.
Fr Chesney was moved across the Irish border by the Church after the attack.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-11064647
Perhaps we should stop building churches too?
Moe,
Not to worry, Jon Stewart did a fabulous show last night on just your connections of “terror” funding! I plan on posting it!
TP,
I believe it would stand for the exact opposite. What did you think about the imam himself, being villified by the very extreme in Islam? Isn’t he EXACTLY the person we WANT to embrace and lift up? What hypocrisy when Americans decry that all of Islam is extreme when CLEARLY, given the message of this imam, it is NOT. How do we help those Muslims regain their religion if we are so unwilling to support them?
More people should seek out what they fear to challenge their prejudices. When something is no longer unfamiliar, it is a lot harder to be categorically afraid.
Just like people of any other religion, there are so many wonderful Muslim people in this country. In college, I had a lot of Muslim friends. My freshman roommate was Palestinian Jordanian, one of the sweetest, funniest people you would care to meet.
When I started teaching, I regularly had elementary school students who were Muslim. I tutored one student a couple of days per week and then brought her home since her mother didn’t drive. This amazingly giving woman would always invite me to stay and break the fast during Ramadan. and her little girl delighted in trying to teach me some letters in Arabic.
I had another student who really wanted to try fasting during Ramadan, but of course, it was a struggle. He chose to stay in another room during lunch. Some of the non-Muslim kids in my class, completely on their own, came up with a plan. They asked their parents if they could take turns fasting and spending lunch with this student. I will always remember the level of support and friendship those kids had for each other.
For a little while after teaching, I had a job going to different schools, churches, and community centers to teach health and safety lessons all over Northern Virginia. I remember regularly going out to a mosque/Islamic cultural center in Loudoun County. I always felt very welcomed there. My colleague and I would teach large groups of children about bike safety and other things on weekends. I was so impressed by the beauty of the center and the dedication and professionalism of the female principal (I wish I remembered her name). It was much like teaching in any other religious or community center, and the students were the same…little kids full of joy.
If you are afraid of Muslims and you find a mosque or cultural center such a foreign or scary concept, go out and TALK to actual Muslims. Go out and visit an actual center. Face your fears and you may be surprised at what you find.
Thank you for posting Mukit and sharing your story. Just so people know, Mukit is my friend that helped open my eyes to the imam who hopes to spread peace and understanding with this cultural center.
DG,
Your story gave me goosebumps. Children are amazing! What a wonderful testament to the human spirit such a simple act of fasting with your friends just to offer support! Yom Kippur is coming at at least Jews only fast for ONE day, I can’t imagine an entire month!
@Elena
Nieve in the extreme – dangerously so to believe that these people are as they seem and are of good will – who then insist on a mosque that could be built anywhere else in NYC except in the attack zone, in the cloud of ash, in the rubble. The mask does not fit the profile of the Imam or the source of his funding. He is laughing at you Elena – he knows exactly what he is doing and its a win/win for him. He creates hatred for Americans throughout the muslem world if he is prevented from building it in the attack zone and he has a heros welcome by putting a stick in the eye of America to the whole muslem world at ground zero if he does.
You do not really believe this Imam is seeking an agenda of reconciliation do you? Nobody – nobody – has said that you cannot or should not build your center – just not here – not now that’s all. And, separately, where exactly are the moderate muslems that understand the reaction and would publically argue against this insult to America and NYC and all the dead of 9/11? Must be on CNBC cause I sure have missed their demonstrations/voices.
TP,
Why not have a conversation with Mukit? We have created our OWN reaction in the Muslim world by OVER reacting!
No you do not have the right to sacrifice humans or animals, commit crimes, mutillations and cannot have sex orgies and be called a Church with Government recognition. Perhaps you would support the stoning of a woman buried up to her head for adultry, but its not protected under the Contitution nor is the absolute the use of private property which is why we have Zoning laws. Way down the crazy lane.
I think you will enjoy living under Sharia which is the goal of this Imam to bring to America, as he appreciates your support today.
TP,
You sound very uniformed right now. When did the imam EVER talk about Sharia law. You sound paranoid and hysterical.
I find your comparison to Islam and human sacrafice offensive. Sharia law is NOT coming to the United States. THAT is why we follow our Constitution as opposed to making it up as we go along, i.e., freedom of religion.
TP, There are good people and bad people in all religions. Too bad that you decide to ignore that fact and blather on with you own prejudices and hate. Doesn’t holding all that baseless hate up give you digestive problems?
Hate those who do wrong, who do evil but geez…give those who reach out to assimilate a break.
The proposed Islamic center is NOT AT Ground Zero. It is over by the Titty Kitty Strip Club wedged in between the dollar store and the Polish Sausage Roach Coach.
Both of you smokin from the same crack pipe?
TP,
You are demonstrating how unable you are to have a credible conversation. If you represent the people who are against this center, that does not bode well for a civil society.
Personal attacks again – who would have thought it. But then in your world where everyone who disagrees with you, offers an alternative regime, supports the constitution, offers up a morality based on doctrine not the Church of me and/or puts America first is a hate monger or a racist, what else is there to expect.
On this issue, as with so many, you are once again voicing the minority opinion and doing so with a tone of certaintly that is offensive.
TP, you are the biggest hypocrite at all. You are Mr. Personal attack. Has the indigestion made you obvious to the fact that is what you do? You started in on Elena right out of the gate because she disagrees with your world view.
Your world view isn’t very condusive to much of anything positive that I can see. Elena has pointed out that there are some Muslims who very much want an end to extremism that has sprung up within Islam.
Do you honestly feel like your words contribute bridging the gap that exists between moderate Muslims and moderate non-Muslims? I feel your words condemn everyone of that faith. Have I misunderstood you?
@Elena
Thanks! I recorded The Daily Show and Colbert Report on DVR but haven’t had a chance to watch it.
Sanjay Gupta, sitting in for Anderson Cooper, had an interesting interview with Rep. Ron Paul last night. Ron Paul said the whole mess is “all about hate and Islamaphobia.” I don’t know that I’ve ever agreed with Ron Paul before, but he seemed to nail it. Sanjay Gupta kept trying to get him to say his son, Rand Paul, was wrong to oppose the building, but Ron Paul wouldn’t take the bait. I thought Sanjay made a bit of an a** of himself by his repeated efforts to get a dad to say his son is wrong and I thought Ron Paul did a nice job saying his son is entitled to his own opinions and then laying out his own argument for why the neo-cons are full of it on this issue.
Oh paleesse. This center is not about reinvigoarating the muslim faith and I NEVER SAID that all muslims were extremists – so stop creating your own world in order to support the center over the wishes of the vast majority of Americans, New Yorkers and the victims of 9/11. You remind me of the picture of the hippie chick putting a flower in the barrel of the guardsmen at Kent State. Grow up! By their own actions it is clear that these folks are not on the side of moderation, they are not seeking reconciliation. They are seeking a symbolic victory over the site.
You appear to believe that the center is a good thing for NYC. I and the vast majority of Americans strongly disagree. You appear to believe that the Imam is a soft hearted voice of reason and never blamed America for /9/11 or sought funding from Iran. I and the vast majority of Americans strongly disagree.
And as to all those Muslims who very much want an end to extremism that has sprung up within Islam – lets hear from them – see them in the streets and lets see them acknowlge that this is not the place or the time to build this center there.
Is that the best you can do, Mr. Taxpayer?
Read Mukit’s post above, stupid.
How would you possibly hear from those Muslims who want to end extremism, TP? You seem to be shouting hate at them so loudly you would never hear what they had to say.
I have heard lots of Muslims denounce and even ‘refudiate’ Muslim extemism. How many Muslims have you personally discussed this issue with?
How close is too close? How far away would be an acceptable distance for anything that has to do with Islam? What time would be a good time to build a mosque? Would NJ be too close?
I see no connection between the mosque plans and Kent State. I actually neither support or don’t support the Islamic center several blocks from Ground Zero. I feel it is a land use issue the people of New York have to sort out.
Not sure who you are referring to when you say ‘the victims of 9-11.’ The one survivor of 9-11 I have personally spoken to about this issue says it doesn’t bother him and that people need to sort out the difference between Islam and the misguided evil people who bastardized the religion and used it, like Reider who shot Dr. Tiller, to advance their own twisted version of religion and God’s will.
Further fanning the flames isn’t going to convince the ignorant.
Moon, with the exception of your continued never ending rantings about Stewart and Ken the man Cuccinelli, I do see how you try to see the best in people and hope for the best in society. Its does have a very old fashioned sweetness to it until you dig your heals in on everything Stewart does. The problem here is that by their own actions it is clear that these folks are not on the side of moderation, accomodation, respect for the injured or for reconciliation. As noted, they are seeking a symbolic victory over the site for all the world to see. I don’t understand why you cannot see that. Would that I could come up with an analogy to help you see the duplicitness of their words and actions on this matter – from the blaming of 9/11 on America, to the acceptance of terrorist state funding of the building of the center where so many have asked in so many ways to do it – but do it outside of the destruction zone.
Calling anyone who opposes the plan ignorant and hateful or racist without any acknowledgement of the vast numbers of people who oppose it and their views is increasingly typical for this blog.
TP, actually I called Muslim extremists ignorant. Do you now disagree with that?
Stewart and Kook are individuals. I will continue to rail about them and include facts to back up why I am railing against individuals who are involved in continually making bad policy.
I don’t see the best in many people. I just don’t assume that an entire group of people (1.5 billion) is evil. You really have no proof that those who want to build an Islamic center have any eveil designs on anything. you are listening to rumors and people who have an agenda. Listen to Murdoch. He can tell you all about it since he cozies up to the Saudis who are helping to finance the center.
arrigant
You have no idea what they (the Islamists) are trying to do. You think you know what I am thinking, what Elena is thinking, and now all of freaking Islam. That sounds mighty arrogant to me.
America was not blamed for 9-11. Did you even listen to what the man said? Selective hearing.
and where should they build the Community Center??
Is three blocks from ground zero ok, 4 blocks, 10 miles? Often times, education and information resolves many issues – perhaps the location of the center will allow rational Islam people to educate the masses they they are different from the radical Islam people who were responsible for the events of 9/11. Does a prayer room with no minarets constitute a Mosque? I know several people of the Muslim faith, and I welcome them into my home all the time, and have no fear that they will turn jihad on me.
I’ve spent a lot of time thinking, blogging and discussing and arguing this issue over the past couple of weeks, and I can’t really believe where my head has actually settled on this issue. One the one hand, I do agree that it is a needless, vicious provocation to trumpet this Ground Zero “cultural center” and to insist that it open on the 10th anniversary of the attacks. That does not say “bridge-building” to me.
However….
We are Americans. We die to protect our liberties. We uphold religious freedom at all costs. We don’t always do it well, because we know that our system is loud and messy. So if they build their mosque, it becomes a monument to religious freedom and tolerance, the ultimate irony, I think, simply because our laws allowed them to do that. People will protest in front of the mosque, they will get loud and probably hateful sometimes, but hopefully relatively peaceful compared to other countries who know no such freedoms.
And no, I haven’t suddenly gone all HuffPo here–but this is what the mosque has come to mean to me–the ultimate symbol of liberty. And I hope to God I’m not wrong about it.
Thanks for sharing Emma, a very honest and heartfelt response.
Agreed Emma. I also don’t think it can or should open on 9-11. Is that a rumor or something verifiable?
Thanks for your opinion. I don’t think there are clear cut answers here. I do think it speaks to what is really good about America. You have said it best.
TP, stop saying you know what everyone thinks or what their intention is. How arrogant. You have no clue how I felt about Kent State. Not even a clue. You also really have no idea how I feel about the Mosque issue.
All I know is that you are reading rumors and right wing propoganda and really have no clue what the intent of those proposing the mosque really is. You have told everyone here that they are naive, (although not spelled that way) and act like your opinion is the only one that could possibly be valid.
Sorry. Right wing rhetoric just doesn’t cut it with me. I actually believe I might have been wrong in my original opinion. It is people like you who have convinced me that I might have been wrong.
Can you put yourself in timeout?
You need it.
Elena,
Please read this article ( http://www.analyst-network.com/article.php?art_id=3453 ) which reports on the Imam’s discussion of sharia law. He even rates countries for their sharia law compliance.
I lost 5 minutes of my life that I can never get back by reading Eugene Robinson and that puff piece above that you linked to. So I am hoping that you can return the favor by reading the article that I linked to on the Imam’s history and bio (with actual links to references; not unsubstantiated, emotional reporting).
Beck, Geller push falsehood that Ground Zero “mosque” will open on September 11
August 10, 2010 9:47 am ET — 38 Comments
Glenn Beck and Pamela Geller advanced the false claim that the New York City Islamic cultural center will open on September 11, 2011. In fact, both the executive director of one of the groups spearheading the project, as well as the Imam involved, have flatly denied that the center is slated to open on September 11.
http://mediamatters.org/research/201008100011
@Moon-howler
I have never suggested that I Know what Everyone thinks never said it or suggested it — I can only react to what they say/write about a subject. You are also correct, as always, that I do not and could not really have any idea how you really feel about the Mosque issue either – notwithdstanding your attempt to shout me down as a hate monger. I do have confidence, however, that your DNC performance metrics require you to keep to the DNC’s talking points – which you do exceptionally well. And in that your support of the Muslem Victory Mosque is well documented. (thanks Morris that was great) It is unfortunate, IMHO that you appear closed to the idea that the Imam is not what he is trying to portray as noted above in Kelly’s note. And if that right wing concern is true – those who support the victory Mosque have a great deal to answer for – for their political correctness. THROWING THE VAST MAJORITY OF AMERICANS AND VICTIMS OF 9/11 UNDER THE BUS ON THIS ISSUE IS HURTFUL IN ITS OWN RIGHT. Getting kinda common with this Administration though isn’t it.
Holy smokes, the Communist News Network (CNN) really did associate opposition to the Victory Mosque to being a supporter of the Nazis. Now I know where you are getting this stuff.
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/kathleen-mckinley/2010/08/22/cnn-compares-ground-zero-protestors-nazi-sympathizers
WHAT Starry, a false claim by FAUX news? I find that too unbelievable…….NOT.
There goes that vast majority again. I don’t believe the vast majority of people care, actually. And no, you don’t have any idea how I feel about it.
I have neither supported it or not supported it. And as for the DNC, their number isn’t on speed dial. I am not that much of a party animal. I am not sure about that Iman dude. I could make a point against just about anyone if I wanted to take the time.
I said the one survivor of 9-11 that I have spoken to on this subject is hardly DNC and he has told me he doesn’t care one way or the other if an Islamic Center is built there or not. I don’t guess his opinion counts.
Actually I thought putting a mosque there was in bad taste. However, I felt it was up to New Yorkers to decide what went in there and what didn’t. I live in Virginia and really shouldn’t have a say so.
Now I have listened to you, TP, I am thinking perhaps I was wrong to come down against the Mosque going in there.
Oh, and during Kent State, I was about as far from being a flower child as a person can get. Wrong again.
It sure doesn’t take much to get you to start calling people and agencies ‘communists’ does it?
The Nazis were good liars. Goebbels perfected the art of lying. You said that the mosque would be opened Sept 11 which was a lie. Calling it a victory mosque is a lie. So the comparision is apt.
Yeah, you don’t strike me as the “former flower-child” type.
@starryflights PWC Taxpayer didn’t say the mosque would be opened Sept 11, I did.
http://www.interfaithing.com/cordoba-house-promote-interfaith-dialogue-313/
The current version of the story is that there is not yet funding for this project, so that it may not even happen for another 3-5 years. But the story earlier this year was that the desired opening date was 9/11/2011. That did not come from Fox.