Hats off to Frank Principi who tried to postpone a decision regarding the federal stimulus money until the next regularly scheduled BOCS meeting on September 14. That sounds like the right thing to do. However, that was not to be. As it stands now, pressed on by the urgings of CXO Melissa Peacor, stimulus funds will be considered during the next fiscal year.
In the first place, this was a mighty important decision to be decided on such short notice. 3 board members were absent: Caddigan, Jenkins and Stewart. The time line is fuzzy. Superintendent Walts wanted to begin hiring up to 180 new teachers. That’s understandable. He has a school system to run and that school system starts up Monday, August 30 with kids coming in the Tuesday after Labor Day. Walts doesn’t have time for the BOCS to grand stand and posture for their upcoming elections in 2011.
If there are strings attached to the stimulus money, then naturally the BOCS needs to be aware. If 3 of them aren’t there….there is a problem right from the git-go. It seems to me that the stimulus fund issue ought to be discussed during the Sept. 14 regular BOCS meeting. The School Board and the Board of Supervisors need to find a more effective way to communicate.
If PWC schools do not apply for or take the stimulus money, someone else will take it. The no new taxes crew would have us believe that saying no avoids our liability. That is simply not true. There are kids who need to be educated. Everyone knows that kids in a classroom of 35-40 simply isn’t the best practice.
How much did lobbying by the local Tea Party and their no new taxes or we dump you in the harbor mentality have to do with the decision to vote against the stimulus money?
How many BOCS members have children who either attend or have attended Prince William County Schools?
Why doesn’t the BOCS have the their considerations (ordinances, resolutions, etc) read before each vote is taken? I never know what they are voting on. The yeas and nays get confusing after all the discussion. Perhaps it should become policy that the consideration be read aloud before the final vote.
I was out of town and therefore could not view the meeting. Reading between the lines, it sounds like some supervisors were running scared of the tea party. Please tell me I am wrong. Overcrowding in classrooms will continue to get worse unless new teachers are hired. If Dr. Walts was going to hire 180 new teachers, that should be an indicator of how short handed things really are. I guess it doesn’t matter if your kids don’t go to public school anyway.
The matter should have been postponed until the September 14 meeting. To do anything else short-changes the students of Prince William County Schools.
Do ANY of the BOCS members have kids in public school?
Their elitism is sickening. They obviously don’t care about crowded classrooms or disabled students who need assistance. Many of the positions open were for SPED students. When it comes to these students, I don’t give a damn WHERE the money comes from.
I just love those meetings that give no one time to respond. Once again, this is an example of PWC’s lack of democratic process.
Don’t say you didn’t ask, as much as it pains me to agree with Peacor, Wally & Marty, you’re wrong.
This truly had little to do with overcrowded classrooms, political philosophy regarding stimulus funds or “the children”. This fiasco was brought about solely by the actions of Superintendant Walts. He stepped so far over the line on this one that I would suggest he consider Hari Kiri or shopping for a blindfold so he can’t see the fusilade of bullets headed his way.
Marty was right (oh saying that hurt), this is all about procedure and spending authority, not just the authority to spend the stimulus funds at the front end but the long term costs and consequences at the back end. Solely through his actions, Walts was encumbering the county to the tune of millions annually, not just in salary but also in benefits, deferred retirement contributions and additional administrative costs.
I’ll admit I’m no fan of Walts but the arrogance of this manuever was stunning in its breadth. He clearly took a page from the “its easier to ask for forgiveness than permission” handbook.
The only thing more disturbing than Walt’s Labor Day Suprise was the childish behavior of Principi. If he wants to take a stand, fine, just behave like an adult. BTW Frank, if you don’t know or understand the rules of procedure I would suggest either a crash-course in Robert’s Rules or better yet, shutting your pie hole.
Mom, I am out of town and did not get to watch
the proceedings. So I asked for a reason. I will watch when I get back.
Actually I still salute Frank for trying to get the item on the agenda for Sept 14. He pulled a procedural move. It didn’t work. MoM, not everyone is a Robert’s Rules expert like you are. I will wait to decide if I think he was childish. I probably won’t.
I go back to saying the SB and the BOCS need to communicate better. Regardless of who tries to outsmart who, it is all about students. There aren’t enough teachers. Woe be to the poor kid who has to sit in a math class with 37 students, 15 of whom are learning disabled and 10 of whom are ESOL. Then it becomes all about money and hiring teachers.
You think this is a futuristic scenario? Email me. Names, dates, places and that was before the budget crisis.
And Walts might have been over the procedural line. No arguement on that one. Picking up the phone and asking for a joint session seems to be a fix for that one.
Thanks to Ivan for alerting me to the fact that I had comments turned off on here.
@Mom
I see your point, Mom, but why does Walts have to take such drastic measures to get kids what they need? Perhaps he did step over the line, but the BOCS has traditionally battled to lower funding for the schools, particularly in areas that need more funding. I say this because my kids are in SPED classes and teachers have been replaced by paraprofessionals. Now I am not saying that that the paras are not qualified or that they are doing a bad job (my mom has been a para for years in MA and now in FL). I AM saying, though, that the county has been moving to cheaper and cheaper alternatives, including increasing class sizes.
Furthermore, the BOCS has never wanted to accept stimulus money because they hate Obama. They didn’t want to use the money to give teachers’ raises, they didn’t want to give it to fund more teachers…what more excuses will they make, I wonder?
Because of the economy, we have had to take it day-to-day. YES long-term planning is necessary, but sometimes, we do have to take what is given even if it’s just for now. If you were starving, would you accept a small gift to feed your family today or just say, “It’s too small and not enough to feed them tomorrow so I won’t get them in the habit of eating.”
After watching, I’m pretty sure this wasn’t the fault of the SB, BOCS or any lack of communication between the two, they were both blindsided by Walts. Sure Betty Covington and Milt tried to give Walts some cover but I didn’t sense that either was willing to fall on their swords for him this time.
As to Frank, it has become obvious that he likes to grandstand, the only problem is he doesn’t know how to do it properly or effectively. My issues with Corey aside, at least he understands the ground rules (and how to use them and/or break them). When it became obvious a vote was going to be cast he should have stood his ground and made his moral stand, instead he chose to act like a child, pick up his ball and go home.
I have to agree with Mom. It pains me greatly to say it as well, but I have to admit that Wally, Marty, Corey and Peacor were right here. For the record, I support Mike May on this issue.
Moon is right that schools need more resources. This sort of behavior is not the way to do it, however. Walts has lost a tremendous amount of credibility on this and I would not be surprised to see him ousted because of it. He deserves that for these tricks. The meeting announcement was so vague that I had really no idea, and I think the same holds true for others, of what they were up to until I actually watched the meeting.
The correct course of action would have been for Walts to request special meetings of both the School Board and BOCS prior to taking any action. Had he done that, he might have gotten the result he wanted. As it is, he was clearly trying to lock in both boards to what he wanted with no ability to represent their constituents as they are elected to do.
Pinko is right and para is para. Some para-professionals are excellent. The point is that they aren’t teachers.
Corey has has a lot more time to learn the art of grand-standing. I have no problem with trying to break a quorem. The deck was stacked and the entire BOCS is stacked.
Frank gets a pass from me on this one, without even seeing it for myself. I reserve the right to retract my pass but I don’t think it will happen. However, I am not a republican. I also want Walts to get that money to go into the schools. I have some little Howlers who don’t need to be in a classroom on 40.
Getting ready to press the GO button is a lot different from pushing it. The school board shouldn’t have been surprised by Walts. They hired him to run a school system. He can’t pull teachers out of thin air. Obviously he is way short. Anyone sticking a toe in the water the past 2 years knows that the shortages are horrible. They will get worse.
Those who are trying to pull in new teachers are also competing with every other jurisdiction in the area who is trying to do the same thing.
If Walts weren’t ready to go, everyone would be bitching and complaining that he was letting moss grow on him while all the other jurisdictions who are short teachers snatched all the available teachers up.
Unfortunately, that is exactly what will happen. It can’t always be about effen politics. Sometimes it is about reality.
Warning to all, making kids and teachers political pawns really pushes all my right buttons.
And the BOCS need to show a little confidence in the county they govern by sending their kids to public school. Name me one current supervisor who sends or who has sent their kids to public school. Just one.
I have a high school kid who has always been in PWC Public Schools and other little ones who will attend PWC Public Schools when they are old enough. My mom is a retired public school teacher and I went through public schools. My sentiments are completely with Moon in that regard.
If the key criterion for being elected to the BOCS is having kids in PWC Public Schools, I would win a seat hands-down!
In any event, as much as I agree philosophically with Moon I can’t excuse Walts’ behavior. Like what they do or not, the School Board and the BOCS are elected to represent us and Walts tried to usurp that authority.
I’m no expert on Robert’s Rules myself. However, last night was the first of heard of “voting with my feet” meaning he walk out. He did just that.
I watched last night and it was entertaining indeed. I see NO need what so ever to use one time funds on teachers that we will have to fund for years to come or tell them we don’t have the money this year and you will need to find new employment.
I was glad to see Delegate Marshall and Cathy there to speak out. I agreed with them. As I often do when they speak at Citizens’ Time.
Walts totally jumped the gun. It’s not even clear if The Commonwealth will apply for funds.
Moon,
Wally and Corey have kids in our public schools. Maureen, John J. are past that point in their lives. Then there’s the one Supervisor that is a product of the PWC school system and his kids are homeschooled. Mike’s kids are not school age yet. Not sure about Frank’s kids they probably attend a Catholic school. I do know a few years ago there were two Supervisors that had their children attending private schools not even in the county. Geesh.
I’m not sure about Stirrup’s child.
We don’t know what Walts really did. The N & M wasn’t clear. Let;s cut Walts a break until we we find out through ears and eyes that aren’t filtered by the BOCS who I trust less and less.
Lafayette, you don’t have to fund those teachers forever. They were being given special contracts that reflected temporary status from my sources.
There is plenty of need for new teachers because they don’t have enough. Retirees weren'[t replaced.
What did Marshall say? Save every sperm, they are sacred? He sure doesn’t support public schools.
@Lafayette
My understanding is that these new hires would be hired as “temporary employees.” This means they know coming in they might not have jobs next year. So there should be no worry that teachers won’t know what might be coming next year.
@Lafayette
Thank you for the information, Laf. That, at least, makes me feel a little better.
Moon, sure they all 180 teachers could get one year contracts, but to what avail. What if due do these economic times teachers are retiring at the same pace. It really seems as though Walts was counting his chickens before they hatched. I guess you’ll just have to get back to civilization and watch with your own two eyes and listen with your own two ears.
The Marshall’s didn’t say a word about sperm, frat boys or love canals.
Melissa Peacor stated the Walts was writing contracts.
I agree with Mom’s review of the BoS sit-com.
I’m not a Republican, and don’t think all of the stimulus programs are worth the costs for generations to come.
You and I will NOT agree on last night events.
Nice to see you giving those passes to Walts and Principi. However, I think Prinicipi acted like a middle schooler when he stated he’d be “voting with his feet.” I’m sure Principi will still get the howler pass. What about Marty? He usually get a pass with you. He was not for this money.
I would also add the application approval for the money would not come until mid October. So, let’s just say Walts signed these teachers up temporarily. What happens then if the money isn’t sent to PWC and we’ve paid these teachers for 6weeks?
They may have signed on the dotted line for a year, but what happens if application for the funds is NOT approved by the Feds? They then only have employment for 6 weeks. Last time I checked 6 weeks is a mere fraction of 52 weeks that are in a year.
@Lafayette
Is there any indication the stimulus money won’t be approved? How much do we know about the process? I am just asking because I thought the funding was a done deal so long as the money was accepted.
As an aside, if Walts waits until October, there will be a lot of shifting around which is logistically confusing and takes up instructional time.
Of course I don’t think that having children in the system should or should not preclude you from being elected to the BOCS or SB but now I’m curious….
Which Supervisors and SB members have kids in the system or were products of the system? Not a gotcha game, I’m just interested now..
And if the funds aren’t approved or there is less than they thought or there are more strings than anticipated, any of which could result in the temporary hires being permanently unhired, would there be any less “shifting around which is logistically confusing and takes up instructional time”.
@marinm
I listed the Supervisors above. As far as the SB goes. I think only Lisa Bell and Gil Trennum have kids in the system. Don Richardson’s kid(s) attended our public schools. I don’t follow the SB, like I do the BoS. I think there’s a SB memember that kids are homeschooled or were.
@Posting as Pinko
Not sure if there’s any indication that it won’t be approved. However, with any application there’s always an approval or denial of application. I think Mom summed it up nicely as usual.
I still this use of funds for hiring teachers as putting the cart before the horse. Which happens ALL to often in this county.
oops… I still *THINK* this use of….
Lafayette and Mom, just wanted to say that I appreciate the information above and the analysis. Overall I think the BOCS did what they had to do. The SB should take note of how this all went down and correct as needed.
I wouldn’t hold my breathe waiting for the Walts appologists to “correct as needed”. During his tenure they have tended to do exactly the opposite, even when he has greviously erred or overstepped his authority. I suspect the only corrections as needed will occur at the ballot box and I know a certain Gainesville School Board Rep. that has to go.
Sorry, MH, I know you adore him but I have my well-founded reasons.
@Mom
haha!! I don’t think adore is in Moon’s vocabulary. You know I had been a fan of Don’s until that fiasco at Stonewall Middle they wanted to shove down our throats. I still can’t say I’m ready to vote him out. Of course, who says WG will be in the Gainesville come next election.
I also agree with Mom’s assessment. I am disappointed but not surprised Principi would support Walts’ attempt for an end run around the BOCS and School Board because he also supports similar behavior from the Planning Office.
Walts made a slick attempt to manipulate elected officials. This looks more like a power play than an effort to get more teachers.
Kudos to Mike May for his quick thinking and commitment to transparent public processes. Republicans and Democrats should agree that Mike May is the type of leader we need on the BOCS.
Probably we won’t Laf. I will always come down on the side of education and what I know about what happens in PWC Schools. If the funds didn’t come through, the new hireds would be without a job.
I am most concerned that a decision was made without the full board there and I am also concerned that the matter couldn’t be tabled until they were all there.
Writing contracts is not the same as issuing contracts to individuals. If Walts needs to be reined in, it is up to the school board to do so, not the BOCS.
I am not a big Walts fan. I am just not ready to crucify him for preparing to get money. You don’t get it one day and hire the next.
And yes, I am supportive of Don Richardson and will do all I can to see that he is re-elected. I know what he has done for the system. He has been fair and accountable.
I think there is an awful lot of second guessing here by people who are not and have not been in the educational process. I might end up agreeing with everyone but only after I talked to a few people in the know, spoken with PWEA and watched the meeting.
I still see no reason why the funds couldn’t be revisited in Sept. I really dislike that such an important decision was voted on when only 5 board members were there. Sorry. That just isn’t right.
Remember the words of Sharon Pandak…THE POWER OF FIVE!!!! They only need five and they had them. It’s NOT the first time they’ve taken important(and not) with only five. That’s just Robert’s Rules.
It was short notice for ALL parties concerned about the funds for all to make it for the meeting. August is typically thier vacation, kids to get off to college, etc..
I hope you’re enjoying your vacation!
oops
It’s NOT the first time they’ve taken important(and not) *vote(s)* with only five.
I might forgive someone for doing something I don’t like. However, no one has a permanent pass with me.
Of course it isn’t the first time only 5 have voted. That doesn’t make it right. Don’t forget that there was a call to arms by the famous PWC tea party. I think some of our BOCS is running scared, personally.
As for the power of five, I believe Ms. Pandak meant that 5 wins, not that only 5 should be voting. There were people on vacation and the vote should not have been taken. The BOCS should have told the SB to hold their horses. Protocol works both ways.
And the real question is underneath all the politics and everyone’s egos. There are kids sitting in classes that have 40 kids in them. That is not acceptable. That is what needs to be fixed.
Moon, I completely understood the context of SP’s Power of Five. However, Five present allows them to meet and vote.
Here’s another question. Everything is in place for school as the budget has been approved for a few months now. Schools are going to open on time with or without that money. Do we know what the guidelines are for the money and does it have to be used immediately or can sit until next budget cycle?
What is legal and what is wise are too different things. I don’t want to see folks slithering out of having a public opinion. Is there a reason why the vote couldn’t wait until Sept 14? The only reason I can see is that the 4 were running scare of the tea party. If there is another reason, please tell me.
I have no idea. I don’t think it can be carried over. It is supposed to be for this year.
Geesh, and I thought I did. 😉
This is all I have at this point. This appropriation should not be a surprise:
https://www.moonhowlings.net/index.php/2010/08/20/veas-robley-jones-update-2-good-reasons-to-watch-your-school-boards-deliberations/#more-8734
There were only 2 comments on the Robley Jones post. This should not have been a surprise. Walts is only doing what he was hired to do. He prepared contracts that would be appropriate for this kind of conditional hiring. Had they been issued, that would be another thing. He didn’t issue anything. There will always be a huge gold rush to get to unhired teachers and furloughed people. Prince Wm can no longer compete with its neighbors with an alluring salary.
No one gave a damn until it became a political issue. That’s what makes me sick. When everyone can weigh in with political opinion and show who wants to raise taxes blah blah blah or who doesn’t blah blah blah….or get your self elected or your friend…blah blah blah…then everyone gives a damn.
Good for Frank for voting with his feet. He made a symbolic gesture. If that is middle school then perhaps he is the only one who can relate to whom this education stimulus fund is intended. School kids. Try a science class with 40 students. That’s too many students.
I just dug this out of the NY Times:
I see what is happening now. Rather than relieve the current situation with huge classes, the BOCS will accept that money for next year and then they won’t have to pony up as much for the school board. Think I am wrong here?
@Mom
I see what you are saying.
I wonder if there is any way the schools themselves could look into their budgets and contribute to the costs. I don’t know how this works, but I do know schools and systems in general have a little excess money, like the rainy day fund, in case of emergencies. I would qualify 35+ students in a class as an emergency.
There is no reason that the matter could not have been postponed, as Frank Principi proposed, until Sept. 14.
If anyone thinks this isn’t a policial issue, think again. Walts should have dealt with his bosses, the SB. They should have dealt with the BOCS with Walts being on hand as the educational expert.
Peacor might know budget but she is no educational expert.
Every year that overcrowded classrooms can be avoided is a good thing. As it is, the BOCS can simply use stimulus money in place of what they would have to shell out next year for the 2012-13 school year. Meanwhile, try to pass AYP with 40 kids in a class.
I am not any Walts apologist, however the people I know who like him feel he knows his stuff, especially about money and about educational issues.
Actually the people I know who can’t stand his guts also say he knows his stuff about money and broad based educational issues.
@ Moonhowler
“I see what is happening now. Rather than relieve the current situation with huge classes, the BOCS will accept that money for next year and then they won’t have to pony up as much for the school board. Think I am wrong here?”
It remains to be seen whether you are right here, Moon. But the converse must also then be true. The schools want to spend the money this year to increase the amount of money the BOCS will have to pony up next year. So, it looks to me like both sides are playing politics.
I am appalled that school board member spoke as individual. As long as he is serving as a school board rep, he needs to speak through them. You cannot wear two hats. His politics are showing. TG, shame on you.
Mr. Johns, on the other hand, spoke as a part of the school board. He simply asked that the BOCS not make any permanent action tonight.
He was disregarded.
The tea party woman simply doesn’t know what she is talking about.
If her words are any example, good reason to reject the local tea party.
Bob Marshall throws figures around and he failed to connect the dots. How many of his kids attended PWC schools? I hear crickets.
Want to sell your kids short? See that they don’t get an education.
You cannot put kids on pause. County taxes won’t increase because of this stimulus package.
The funds will go elsewhere.
Waiting for the supervisors now. Right now the nay sayers have been very unimpressive.
Food, unless things have changed, the contracts are written contingent upon stimulus money being allocated. It is for this year.
I would be very surprised if I am wrong but I would sure like to be.
The contracts were indeed contingent upon stimulus money being approved BUT, they were being written so that the new teachers could be hired and installed immediately. Now, lets presume the stimulus funds are not accepted/allocated/appropriated and that decision making process takes some time. If we accept the average starting pay as something akin to $40,000 per teacher for a nine-month contract for 180 new hires, the School system will have to shell out just shy of $1 million a month to pay for the prospective employees. If the funds then are not appropriated, bye-bye new hires and suddenly you have a $1 million per # of months they were temporarily hired hole in your budget. I do not believe the Schools have a spare million just lying around to cover Walts’s speculative manuever.
As for the School Board members testimony, none of them could speak on behalf of the School Board as the issue has not yet been officially addressed. Gil gave his personal opinion and Milt danced a mighty fine line.
And that should not be the issue. I have not seen one of the contracts so I voice no opinion there.
I believe that the the BOCS should have discussed this topic after the school board meets, at their next bocs regulary scheduled meeting. They listened to gossip and had a knee jerk reaction. They passed a resolution without proper notice for citizens’ input.
Johns and Covington both spoke as school board members. Trenum needs to decide if he is fish or fowl. He couldn’t keep the politics out.
All Principi was trying to do is postpone a final decision until more facts could be gathered. Hats off to him. He gave it his best shot.
The politics are ugly and obvious. I see who the losers are also. Kids.
Food, why would the school system want to spend money so the bocs has to pony up more? That doesn’t even make sense. The school system wants to spend the money this year because there are hard times at Ridgemont High. There aren’t enough teachers to go around so classes are huge.
As for the classroom question? I have seen people teaching in a janitor closet and in stair wells. That isn’t a new thing. PWC has been the fastest growing county in America many times. That isn’t without consequences.
If you line up experienced teachers (not the first year ones, they still have stars in their eyes.) and ask about the one thing they would want to improve their teaching experience….most would say reduce class size. Doing so is critical. That is what this money will do.
At least find out the facts and talk about it rather than trying to please the nay sayer voters.
Actually the county does have a few spare million because if I understood correctly, the VRS has not yet been paid.
The little loan was never fully explained until today. I thought the state just borrowed the money as in helped itself. Actually, if I heard right, the various localities and state don’t have to start paying back for a couple years. What I thought was the state I now find out is all the localities also.
I hope someone can tell me that I am dead wrong about this. I can smell a default a mile away.
That few spare million was already used to balance this year’s school budget, no spare millions lying around and the deferral of the payment is another reason the hiring was a bad idea because it just increased the debt load on the back end. Again, this isn’t really about the kids or politics, it is all about Walts overstepping his bounds and unilaterally increasing the debt load without authorization.
Moon-
Who pays for those teachers once the one-time federal grant runs out? They either get fired or the BOCS has to pony up more money to pay their salaries. How does that not make sense? These are simple facts, not attempts to please “naysayer” voters. (Honestly, I don’t even know what that means).
Actually I was being snide when I spoke of the extra millions hanging around.
However….yes, it is about politics. Otherwise Principi’s motion would have had a second and would have been considered. All Principi was offering up is what Johns asked: Don’t do anything permanent until after the SB has had a chance to meet. There was absolutely no reason that the issue could not have been revisited at the regular meeting, after facts were gathered.
As it stands now, there are no funds until next the next school year. If it was really not about politics, then Principi’s motion would have gone through. There will be the same debt with VRS 2012 as there is 2011.
I have lived in PW too long to not know politics when I smell it. There was a strong wind blowing that wanted to punish Walts.
Actually, the bocs needs to start doing more fact finding and less listening to and repeating rumors. No one is defending the fact that he had to cajones to email Peacor. He should have ‘danced with the ones who brung him.’ However, there was a huge over-reaction and a strong urge to teach old Waltsie a lesson.
The VRS deferment makes me sick, by the way. We don’t really have a balanced budget. I thought it only pertained to the state’s obligations. I didn’t realize every piddly a$$3d county got to defer also.