Probably no one is happier this morning than Democrats. They know that winning a primary is a whole lot different than winning in a general election. DNC Chairman Tim Kaine has compared the GOP to cannibals, saying that they are turning their energy and ferocity on each other.
According to the Huffington Post:
What we’re seeing in the Republican Party is that they invited the Tea Party in and it’s turning into the Donner Party, in some instances, because they’re turning the energy and the ferocity against each other,” said Kaine in response to a question by the Huffington Post, referring to the infamous group of 19th-century American pioneers who eventually had to turn to cannibalism to survive. He added that the divisions have given Democrats “some great opportunities in races that we wouldn’t have absent the Tea Party candidates.”
Perhaps the person to really watch is Karl Rove. Probably no one knows more about king-making than Karl Rove. Palin is a flash in the pan. Karl Rove knows how to do it for keeps and has built a career on doing just that. Karl Rove has spoken out against Christine O’Donnell and he is furious that Michael Castle has been ousted. Castle was expected to be the candidate who took back the Senate for the Republicans.
Rove to Sean Hannity, as reported in Politico:
“It does conservatives little good to support candidates who, … while they may be conservative in their public statements, do not evince the characteristics of rectitude and sincerity and character that the voters are looking for. … There’s just a lot of nutty things she’s been saying. … I’m for the Republican. But I gotta tell ya: We were looking at eight to nine seats in the Senate [of the 10 needed for the majority]. We’re now looking at seven to eight, in my opinion. This is not a race we’re gonna be able to win.”
Division in the ranks can be a good thing or a bad thing. Division can redefine a party or it can divide and conquer, much like the Ross Perot movement did to catapult Bill Clinton in to the White House. Republicans need to decide if they want to try to usher in a new brand of arch conservatism or if they want to get rid of President Obama in 2012 and Democrats. I doubt if they can accomplish both missions under the same banner.
Some of these fire-brand uber-conservatives who are winning these primaries have won because it is easy to get out a special interest base in a primary. Joe Liebermann is living proof. He lost the primary because of his pro-Iraq war sentiments. The anti-war group came in and tossed him out. Liebermann, a main stream Democrat showed them. He ran as an Independent and retained his seat.
Rove still doesn’t get it. It’s his style of politics that the the Tea Party and many independents are rejecting. The idea that Castle was the 51st Republican Senator is a long shot, anyway. Besides, having Castle in there does not necessarily mean, as shown by his support of major Democrat bills, that he would vote Republican, much less in a conservative manner.
The Tea Party is not doing this just to get Republicans to majority again. This is a long term project, giving notice to those that care, that their past performance has been lacking. Basically, the boss is here, watching, and firing the employees, and hiring new ones. The established pols are shocked that the environment has changed. They don’t want to change their procedures and customs. They are perfectly willing to not compete in blue areas so that more money can be used elsewhere. The idea that competing because its the right thing to do has been lost to them. Well, now they see that there ARE conservatives in blue areas. Now, will all of the candidates win? No. But at least, now, a definite choice can be seen.
Those new ones may not work out. But the paradigm of electing anyone with an R that might get elected has changed. Now we want the GOP to actually live up to those principles that they say they support. The opinion that there was little choice in some of these races always seemed to be very liberal Dem or a liberal GOP. Never a conservative Dem and a very conservative Republican.
Sometimes you have to play to win, instead of not to lose. Rove has been wrong on a lot of races lately. He has a vested interest in the old way of doing things because he has no pull in the Tea Party.
Remember, 18 months ago, no one expected ANY Republican support. And the Tea Party was supposed to be a flash in the pan. Now there’s national support for Tea Party Republican candidates.
Btw, not all of the Tea Party candidates are “uber” conservatives. They just want to reign in spending and restrict the expansion of federal government. They want a return to a government more responsive to the public and responsible to the Constitution.
I mean, Scott Brown, Tea Party Republican. Uber? Really?
Scott Brown was the selection of the Massachusetts Tea Party. I doubt that he nor anyone else considers him to be a tea party member. If I am wrong, then it is simply because of Massachusetts being an anomoly. Coming off 50 years of Ted Kennedy, what do you expect?
Maybe you are right. I don’t think so. Time will tell. Some candidates might win short term. Long term? It won’t happen. Politics will always drift back to the center.
The Tea Party IS the center. The actual center. The platform very simple. Stop Spending So Much Money and Follow the Constitution. They want smaller government. Social concerns are not a national concern.
In the last 19 months, this administration has spend more money than Bush did in 8 years. The federal government has expanded in unprecedented ways. And most of the worst hasn’t even been activated, even though the taxes have already kicked in. No one in this administration seems to understand 21st business since every plan is “Here’s more tax money.” That’s their ONLY solution. We haven’t even spent the first stimulus on shovel ready projects and Obama is touting ANOTHER one for infrastructure. I thought the first one was for that.
We’re tired of all the spending and the bailouts for the politically connected. Its not about the GOP or the Democrats. THEY ARE BOTH IN THE WRONG. Its time to clean house. The Democrats also have to do that. The Tea Party needs to get involved in the Democrat primaries too.
I predict a rise in conventions for choosing candidates. So, if you want to elect common sense politicians, become a precinct committee member in your local party.
I’ve been out of town lately but thought I would jump back in here. I agree with Cargo 100% that we need major change (and not Obama-style change). We must be careful, however, that we don’t replace people who are part of the old system that no one likes with crackpots, incompetents and self-serving opportunists. I’m looking for reform in the Republican Party that restores it to the days of Teddy Roosevelt and Ronald Reagan. Both were serious, well-informed leaders who had a strong sense of values and knew what they wanted to accomplish.
Many Tea Party supporters (and there really isn’t an organized Tea Party) are not people who can sustain a credible political party or movement over the long-term. For example, I researched Christine O’Donnell today. I knew nothing about her prior to her winning in Delaware yesterday. Karl Rove is not the only Republican who doesn’t take her seriously. Conservative publications such as the “Examiner” and the “Weekly Standard” raise serious questions about her qualifications and ability to serve as a U.S. Senator. Electing someone whose statements and views match your own, but who will not be able to advance your common agenda is meaningless.
I agree with many of the policies Tea Party people advocate. However, I am reluctant to join because the Tea Party appears to exercise no diligence in vetting the people they get behind. O’Donnell is one example. Sarah Palin is another. Palin is a great speech-maker and can fire up a conservative crowd. However, she is not a credible candidate for high office. My choice for McCain’s running mate was Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison of Texas, who has a distinguished record of public service and has written books (as opposed to not being able to name any publications she reads), but what do I know?
I was watching C-Span recently and they broadcast a speech by the current head of the John Birch Society. Many of his remarks were positions I could agree with, such as smaller government, reduce the debt, etc. But then he went into advocating eliminating the Federal Reserve, plots by the Council on Foreign Relations, the Bilderburg Group, and the usual litany of crackpot, conspiracy theories. One member of the audience rose during the Q&A, identified herself as a leader of the Tea Party in her state, and told the head of the John Birch Society how much she admired and agreed with him. Tea Party people should think these things through much better and employ a little skepticism.
Then we come to Prince William County’s shining example of a self-aggrandizing politician who has no core values or strong beliefs in anything, Corey Stewart. At one time Stewart is behind fiscal conservatism and sound land use, at another time he is chasing illegal aliens, at another he is the champion of moderate government, etc., etc. The best way to figure out where Stewart is at any moment is to check http://www.vpap.org to see where his most recent big campaign contributions came from. Stewart is now trying to position himself as a leader of the Tea Party movement. Be careful around people like Stewart – everyone who deals with him gets burned.
I want conservative reform as much as does Cargo. However, I do not want to associate myself with people who may say some things with which I agree but at the core are people I cannot support. As long as leaders of the Tea Party advocate John Birch Society conspiracy theories, and fail to vet or exercise any level of due diligence of candidates they support, I can’t sign up. Count me as old-fashioned, but I want solid, experienced conservatives who I know share my values and won’t stick a knife in my back when corporate campaign contributors pay them to take some different position. That might very well include some candidates who associate themselves with the Tea Party, but I want to know and understand the person, not what group(s) they have signed on with.
Kaine’s a dummy. He thinks that America swinging hard right is somehow a victory for the Democrats. It’s not. Tea Party members are going to vote GOP and so are Republicans.
kaine’s thinking here is bizarre and resembles much of the fuzzy empty-headed rhetoric that passes for thinking in his party.
“Probably no one is happier this morning than Democrats” – uh, sorry Moon but I would have to disagree with you here. I think I may be happier, in fact, I’m delighted and energized about this!!!
You know why? Because finally Republicans are purging themselves of RINO’s. Yes, I said it, RINO’s. They are getting back to their roots, dumping all of the types of ‘Republicans’ that ended up spending like Democrats under Bush.
Maybe, just maybe, for the first time in my adult life (to steal a partial quote from Michelle Obama) I am proud of the Republican party. Not the establishment, don’t get it twisted, but the party as a whole, the voters. You know, the REAL PEOPLE. A strong message is being sent, if you vote for Cap and Trade, if you vote for Obamacare, if you vote for spending after spending after spending… your not going to have a job any longer!!! (that is going to apply not only to R’s but D’s as well the next cycle, just watch)
Get back to principals, sure, it may cost the general election but we are SICK of the stausquoe, sick of incumbents not listening to the people, just plain old sick… It’s a real tragedy that Democrats don’t feel the same way, even with the country going down the $hitter they just can’t see what is happening to our future, to our kids future.
Go ahead and keep me in ‘moderation’ if you want Moon but damn it, this is a revival no matter which way you look at it. For the first time since my son was born I’m actually I’m actually hopeful for his future. If this continues then maybe, just maybe, he won’t be burdened with our generations debt. What is happening today with all of the spending is criminal! Short term gain, very short term, with LOOOOOONG term consequences.
Quit thinking about yourself, or your party, start thinking about your kids and grand kids for a change for the love of God!!!
It sure isn’t a victory for Republicans, Rick and the aren’t enough tpp to swing a general election, I do not think.
If they keep saying outrageous things like Bachmann, Palin, Paul, and O’Donnell, coupled with Cucinneli doing what he does best, center and leans towards left will be sure get envigorated and will flock to the polls. On the other hand, I always hear that the pendulum swings.
Kaine isn’t a dummy in this case. He is commenting and doesn’t hold elected office. If his counterpart can survive, anyone can.
Le’s talk about smaller government and reducing spending. Those are election slogans. Smaller goverment–where do we start? Fewer cops, teachers, firefighters? fewer TSA, snow removal personnel, librarians, military personnel, border agents? ICE agents? jailers?
As for spending, where do we start? Meidcare, medicaid, social security? Whose grandma are going to zap? Do we bring home more troops? Reduce our military? Cut back on war materials? Skip desert?
No one ever says where the spending should be cut or which jobs to abolish or cut back. Like I said, its just sloganeering.
After years of being told to hold our nose and finger the -R button in the polls even for a -R that we knew was a liberal.. I think the time has come that those RINO’s now are asked to hold their noses and vote for conservatives.
I think Cargo is very spot on – this is not as simple as one election. This movement must sustain. Where progressivism took hold in 08 the pendulum must swing back to it’s proper position. We’ll need to keep fighting the fight to restore our Constitution and sweep out those that seek to compromise for the sake of keeping their jobs rather than doing them.
I’m happy O’Donnell won. Glad that (Rand) Paul is polling well. And amused that the GOP High Command is scrambling to figure out future strategy – something that shows a failure in understanding both the TP and the current resentment at the Administrations policies and the reluctance of the GOP to challange them.
Kaine’s not a dummy? Well he’s doing a great job for the Democrats, pretty much analogous to the job he did as our Governor. he laves a trail of ruin everywhere he goes.
Rick, Kaine’s not my favorite governor. I can’t forgive closing the rest stops, but other than that, I have no major gripes. He brought in business to the Old Dominion. Works for me.
What is it you want him to do for the Democrats that he isn’t doing?
Hello, case by case basis. While I don’t agree with you, you discuss substance that fit the thread. Therefore, you are out for that remark.
One remark, the people you are calling RINOS were the people who held the party together for decades. The people you like are the johnny come latelies.
Do you think that someone like William Buckley or Barry Goldwater are RINOS? How about Sandra Day O’Connor?
Much of the Reagan thought of the day has morphed into myth and legend. Reagan was also a RINO.
Watching liberals (not referring to anyone specifically on this blog) trying to analyze this stuff is really funny. This is part of the cleansing process I talked about right after Obama was elected. And no, I don’t think anyone would beat Cuomo in NY.
It’s not about party, the Republicans are just as much to blame for the state of our country as Democrats, it’s about principle. If the Republican establishment can’t understand principle over power-grabbing, then we’ll burn them down to nothing. My favorite line of the day, from Bubba Clinton: “Bush looks like a liberal now!” No chit, Bubba! He IS a liberal! He always was a sly one, that Bubba!
There are few real liberals on this blog, at least by my definitions. We are as repugnant to them as we are to you.
Here’s my question for you slow: your candidates don’t know their way around. They might have the right talk but I haven’t seen them walk the walk. It will be interesting, if they get elected, to see how they function.
I want to see talk become a plan. So far, its just sound bites and slogans.
And lest I forget to say so, there is not enough wall between church and state with most people I have heard to say they are tea party.
How about specifics for reducing government and spending?
I realize it’s hard for some to see the benefits of freedom and living within your means, but many of us love those two concepts. Heck, some of us even have to LIVE by them.
That doesn’t answer the question. We are speaking of reducing the size of government and reducing spending. First off, are you talking state, local or federal and what would you chop and what would you eliminate, given the big money suckers.
It isn’t about living within your means. That is a platitude. I also don’t think that has to do with democrat or republican or liberal or conservative.
Somehow we are going to have to move past labels. I can throw out spending by Republicans until the cows come home and I will get this..well they are RINOS bs.
I want to know how, for example, we are going to cut out spending for medicare and SS? Those are two huge vampires? How do we reduce the size of government? I keep asking and I keep getting slogans. NO one answers.
My boy-cat, Phantom, who throws up quite often, can cut government spending. Those are the two things he knows how to do….throw up and cut government spending…I bet there are humans that could figure it out, too.
I was staying quiet because I thought the questions were directed to Slow or Hello. But, if the question is being asked to the peanut gallery in general….
We can slice and dice it a number of ways. We can return to a different budget year of spending. 2008 or even earlier.
Another method is a straight off the top cut. 5%, 10%, 15% or any arbitrary number we can come up with. All agencies and departments would be given the leeway to cut within their confines as long as the full amount of the cut is made and the primary mission is still maintained.
Eliminate certain departments or agencies. Department of Education is on top of most lists. Push out spending expenditures for x+ years. For example, instead of buying 300 Joint Strike Fighters right now, let’s buy 100 and then stagger additional purchases as we decommission something else.
Increase retirement age, lower medicare/medicade payouts by covering less services, and maybe think about contracting with HMOs to provide low-cost services.
Alot of out of the box thinking will be needed and the idea that sacred cows can’t be touched… needs to go into the rubbish bin. And yes fellow conservatives that means looking at the military, military benefits and military healthcare.
Also, this idea that was pushed by the current Administration that the turn around will occur in a year or during a Summer needs to be kicked to the curb. We took a big hit and it’s going to take a few years. That needs to be communicated out. Be honest with people. Japan had almost a decade of struggle when they hit their bubble.
As for SS we need to look at phasing it out. Bring back personal responsibility and get people to save and invest on thier own. SS was supposed to be a safety net not a living retirement wage.
Those are just some off the top of my head idears..
So Tim Kaine compares the GOP to cannibals. And the Democrats know NOTHING of circular firing squads. Wait until after this year’s elections to see the Democrats let loose on each other. The Democratic candidates are already running away from Obama, Reid, and Pelosi as fast as their little feet will carry them! Just wait ’till after the election! Both parties have internal issues they need to fix. The Republicans moved too far left, and the Democrats moved too far left. Both parties have issues to work through.
Slowpoke, Why not address what he said rather than deflecting to what the democrats may or may not do?
Are the Republicans turning on each other? Is it to be expected? Are there some people who were self centered and ran, depite party advice? I watched a symposium on Fox tonight and there was pretty much consensus that some people are spoilers and that mainstream Republicans should be mad.
Two questions to consider: Do you want to get rid of Obama and democrats or do you want to advance your own political agenda?
Finally, its now about Kaine or Steele. They are fundraisers bosses. Not much else.
Marin, thank you. I am sorry, it was a peanut gallery question. Most of my questions are. I actually agree with you in principle on some of your answers.
I see nothing wrong with most agencies, depts, etc taking a 5% cut. That was pretty much done locally with PWC govt. I would give leeway to agencies who absolutely need funds. ex. FEMA if we had 10 hurricanes. I would get rid of the Dept of Ed also. I don’t see why we need it. I would have an Ed agency. Agencies are much cheaper to run. No cabinet post and fewer workers. I am all in favor of the feds getting out of most of education.
The retirement, I do not agree with. I might agree more with phasing out SS to another plan if we hadn’t just had a financial crash of epic proportion. Perhaps if there could be a govt. run insurance that protected retirement funds…I don’t know. All I know is many people got pretty much wiped out in fall 2008.
TARP had to happen.
But you answered me and I thank you. We have both chopped Dept of Ed. I would change it to an agency and tell the feds to mind their own business.
On what planet does the media decide that a victory for “Tea Party” candidates bodes well for Democrats? And where Republicans will simply vote in droves for Democrats rather than for said candidates? And I thought “1984” was weird. To borrow an old phrase, “It’s the economy, stupid.” People are sick of the sluggish economy, the persistent unemployment and the profligate borrowing and spending. They’re not going to put all of their eggs into the Democratic party’s basket to fix all of that. And it works to the Tea Party’s advantage that there is no central leadership or even “party” per se, despite the MSM’s best efforts to tag and smear its purported leaders and paint the entire movement as “extreme.”
(yeah, I’m checking in late into the discussion. Busy day.)
Emma, when moderate ‘winners’ are bumped out, it helps the Democrats. The centrists move to the democratic party. I heard tonight that Castle is so popular with both parties that Biden’s kid wouldn’t run against him. He was pretty much a guaranteed winner in the general election. He obviously isn’t going to be now.
Have you heard O’Donnell? Do you seriously think she can win? I don’t know. Maybe I am overlooking a change in America. Let’s put it this way…Gray is no more unacceptable than O’Donnell and Angle. Shudder.
Remember spoiler Perot? Spoiler Nadar?
Did you really expect the economy to recover in 2 years? I sure didn’t. We are all sick of it but it was predicted.
No, I didn’t expect the economy to recover in two years. But I also never expected the unprecedented borrowing and spending to create artificial economic “growth.” Try as it might, the government cannot create wealth, and the jobs “created or saved” were either temporary or vastly overstated. And a majority of Americans still oppose the healthcare bill, cap and trade, and other capstone Democratic initiatives.
People will be looking at their pocketbooks when they vote this time around, and I think the Democrats’ flawed assumptions will be their downfall, regardless of the strength (or lack thereof) of the “tea party” candidates. I find it very hard to believe that the majority will vote for more of the same, and I think the primaries were the best indication of the desire for another kind of “change”. But that’s just my humble opinion. Will wait for the post mortems on November 3 to see if I was right.
You and I will both be waiting…I do think there are too many people out there who think they know the answers when they really don’t. I have no idea what the answer is myself.
We shall see. Special interest groups and extremism often win in primaries. I am still aborbing it all.
What really is amazing to me is how badly the Republicans turned on some of the primary winners.
I understand Liebermann. I don’t understand some of this. Liebermann might be a good model for what should happen with Mike Castle.
I have to say it, I cannot say how unimpressed I am with some of the tea party candidates. Sharron Angle and Christine O’Donnell are totally ignorant in my book. Actually Angle looks like a brain trust next to O’Donnell. I am embarrassed for them.
I am highly amused by the thought that I should now pay attention to the political prognostications of Karl Rove. In my view, he was among the chief architects of the electoral disasters of 2006 and especially 2008, not to mention the error-filled last four years of the Bush II administration. What amuses me even more is that the media and the Dems are focusing now on Rove’s alleged “political wisdom.” This is the same guy most them seemed to want to tar and feather not too long ago as an arch-villain of the Bush II camp. The worm turns. Any port in a storm, wot, wot?
There was a time not so long ago when these same media pundits and political “experts” were telling us that there wouldn’t be any afterglow in which we could bask.
@Need to Know
“However, I do not want to associate myself with people who may say some things with which I agree but at the core are people I cannot support. As long as leaders of…. and fail to vet or exercise any level of due diligence of candidates they support, I can’t sign up.”
Heck, you just described the Republicans that we are trying to replace. They don’t need conspiracy theories. They just need to support bills that ARE damaging to the US. How many Republicans should we re-elect that support the stimulus bills, cap and trade, pork, McCain-Feingold, etc?
The John Birch may be outspoken, but, they have no power. And those that run for office, that hold those positions, will not get elected. Well, except for Ron and Rand Paul…..
Was Castle a shoo-in? He was not popular enough with his own party to win a primary. McDonnell may have some problems. However, now they are all known. What will the Dems spring? And Coons is not a good Dem candidate. This is not a slam dunk for the Dems.
McDonnell has raised $750,000 dollars in less than 24 hours in individual donations. Will Coons have that kind of support? This seat is a perfect try out for her. If we win, GREAT! If we lose, we haven’t lost anything that we had in the first place. There is no way that Castle would have been 51. Besides, you need 60 to get anything done. The GOP is just worried about getting chairmanships.
Smaller government? Kill the education and energy departments. Bring the commerce clause back to the 21st century and stop abusing it, and we can get rid of, at least most of, the commerce department. Repeal Obamacare. Repeal the “stimulus bills.” Cut spending back to 2008 budgets, at least. Bring the deficit back to Bush years, at least. Allow SS account to become privatized. Reduce Medicare/Medicaid and introduce market based approaches.
Get entitlements out of the untouchable budget in other words. Put everything on the table. And have an open debate in Congress on CSpan to justify any spending. If Congress feels the need for Medicare, then justify it. Same with 10 Carrier groups. Kill the pensions of the politicians. Let them get their own medical insurance. Let them put their money into IRA’s.
If we can’t repeal the income tax, then flatten it. No more than 18%. No capital gains. No inheritance tax. Tax corporations on income earned in this country. Reduce regulation. Government should not treat business as an enemy or a cash cow. Government’s job should be as a referee, ensuring safety and fairness. Heck, even some of the safety regulations can be done by private agencies.
Kill the Department of Homeland defense and the TSA. Fold the ATF into the FBI. Alcohol, tobacco, and firearms should be a convenience store, not an agency.
Really want government to become smaller? Repeal the 17th Amendment, kill the income tax, and expand the House of Representatives.
Wolverine, I still want to tar and feather him. I have said, in this thread, that I do not like him but I respect his political power. You don’t have to even acknowledge his existence, I suppose. I have kept an eye on him for the past ten years, at least.
Many people were totally amazed that Bush was re-elected. Karl Rove pulled that off, rather cleverly, I might add.
Cargo, you might want to do just cursory investigations on Ms. O’Donnell. She seems to have ethics problems out the ying yang. Was Castle a shoe in? Who knows. He was thought to be one. I don’t need to tell you that primaries are easy pull an upset in because of special interest groups. People who aren’t special interest get lazy and complacent.
You would certainly reinvent the government. I would keep the dept of energy. It is a critical issue and will get even more so.
Homeland security…seems too large to be all that effective. I would keep TSA. I remember what it was like before TSA came along. You can’t pull the rug out from under people who are retired.
Too tired to think. So you want to repeal the 17th and the 14th?
14th? Um…no. I just want the jurisdiction clause clarified. I believe that it means the children of illegal aliens are not citizens. Others believe the opposite.
‘Jurisdiction thereof’ is problematic, as I see it, because if it is anything other than diplomatic immunity, then we have a real problem. Anyone within the United States is under our jurisdiction. We can’t have people coming in here and being under someone else’s jusisdiction.
Diplomatic immunity poses enough of a problem. Every been hit by one of those so and so’s? Try getting your car repaired if one of them slams in to you. It won’t be happening. They have been known to get by with murder.
Diplomatic immunity is something different. “Jurisdiction, thereof”, I believe, means that visitors to this country, of any sort, fall under the ultimate jurisdiction of their home country. If any of the visitors breaks a law and is arrested, that country’s embassy or consul is to be notified. Tourists’ children, born here, are not automatically American citizens.
MH, from a financial market standpoint we really didn’t have a crash. We had a large correction. Yes, a lot of people lost a good portion of their retirement savings and some had to re-enter the work force to make ends meet but a privitized retirement fund or a pension that invests in the market is not a guaranteed investment. If I want a guaranteed return I can open up a USAA Savings Account for my 1% annual return. If I want a larger return then I’ll have to risk it. Each person assumes risk based on their investment tolerance and strategy. And, to your point about protected retirement— bank deposits are insured by the FDIC.
So, I see it as a matter of personal responsibility. Lean heavier on the individual and less on the oppressive hand of government.
Now, that’s not to say that I agreed with how Bush wanted to do SS privitization — way too much of a carve out for the banking lobby. I’d do it more like how healthcare is done currently (pre-Obama) with payroll deductions authorized by the employee to a retirement plan set up by the Company. The infrastructure already exists at most mid to large companies — the key in my mind would be to get small businesses on the bandwagon.
TARP put a rancid bandage on the wound and may have stopped excessive bleeding but we now have a longer recovery that we’ll deal with than if we had just let the system correct itself.
I’m with Cargo in the reduction or elimination of DHS, TSA, ATF, etc. I’m not a fan of the DoI, I’d reduce it to a state agency with a shadow crew of Federales to write Federal policy but have the states apply it.
I think federal healthcare (not-ObamaCare but employee healthcare) should be handled via HMOs and not as a POS/PPO. Over 10 years you’d probably save a trillion easily with that one switch. And, of course elimination of the federal worker pension system.
I also agree with Cargo’s view on income tax. The biggest issue that we currently have is the bi-weekly collection of our federal income taxes. If we got rid of that so that people only paid taxes once a year and realized how much they’re giving to the govt………
Cargo, I believe they can be American citizens if their parents chose for them to be.
marin, It was very much of a crash. Have you talked to people who are in the financial world as an occupation? It was an incredibly serious situation that will have long lasting effects on our economy.
TARP absolutely had to happen to free up credit so payrolls could be met. Most tarp money has been paid back and the feds made some money to boot. I don’t think most people want to think about what would have happened to all of us if certain safeguards weren’t slapped into place.
We probably won’t agree on this. However, I talk to people who I have total trust in on such matters and they had very white knuckles. I am fortunate enough to have someone in my life who was able to explain a lot to me so I understood at the time…not well enough to retell it two years later, but at the time, it did sink in.
marin, as you cannot legislate morality, you can’t legislate responsibility either. Plenty of people simply won’t contribute. All sorts of states are suing the feds, saying you can’t force people to buy health care. Well…if that is true, then you sure can’t force them to put their own money in a plan. Its really the same thing.
SS needs to be fixed, for starters, by removing that incredibly low ceiling. Maybe aid to dependent children needs to come from a different fund. SS should be its own fund and NOTHING else should touch it. There has been too much dabbling over the years.
Riiiiiiiiiiight. So, if they don’t plan for the future and we remove the safety net they’re on thier own. I won’t lose sleep over it. If we’re to be free we have to be free to make boneheaded decisions.
I have no problem what so ever if someone decides they want to contribute 0% to their own retirement.
And because you live in a civilized society, that society will provide them with the basic necessities.
You are aware that some people simply don’t have life situations that allow for them to build their own nest egg? You have very middle class eyes, Marin. Sometimes you have to look beyond that.
I don’t like it that there are poor people. I don’t like even more that there are generational poor people who continue to reproduce at a greater rate than middle and upper class people. But there always have been and always will be. And some of those offspring escape what appears to be their destiny and become middle class people…and humankind moves on. Civilized societies take care of those less fortunate than themselves. This is where religion and the idea of charity should kick in.
Angela’s Ashes is a good reminder.
marin….you mentioned that some people had to go back to work to make their retirement ends meet or postpone their retirement even. So, what if they are unable?
You also mentioned social security as being something other than a safety net. The average ss check today is about 800 I think. that won’t even get you food and rent.
@Need to Know
I disagree with almost everything Need to Know says on policy but I finally understand what a true conservative is and I would like to send my thanks.That being said, I believe government must be part of social reform. Medicare, Social Security and the Interstate Highway system are examples. I agree with controlling spending at the appropriate time but not during this emergency of recession. The Republicans are all for reducing the debt unless it means the top 2% of the most wealthy don’t get their tax cut (in that case who cares about an extra 700 billion added to the debt).As for Bush ,He put both wars on the country’s credit card and didn’t even count it in his budget!
Now Bear has thrown me for a loop. While I disagree with NTK on many things, I also find myself agreeing with him. I think perhaps our core principles are different but our approach is similar. For starters, NTK defines himself as a conservative. I define myself as a centrist with libertarian leanings on the social issues, especially those that deal with reproductive rights and establishment cause.
I am not even sure what people are calling ‘big government.’ To me, big government has become a meaningless expression. ‘Cut spending ‘ is equally meaningless. Those sound bites are rarely explained.
I am all over Medicare and Social Security. Those were promises made to Americans before I even entered the work force. The interstate Highway system and its hook ups are critical to a modern country with modern transportation.
I prefer federal government over state government when it comes to reproductive rights and all the other social issues like gay marriage, etc. We shouldn’t be a checkerboard of rights. I went to segregated schools and rode in the front of a bus that had black folks riding in the back of the bus. Should that have been decided by Virginia? I am guessing things wouldn’t have changed much since those days had it been left up to the states.
For that matter, when I was a child, birth control was illegal in many northern states and if a black and white had married, they would have been arrested. Gays would have been put in jail. Also girls were butchered in back alleys.
In many respects, when we get those “pass them along ” emails talking about the good old days when we remember Tru aid, wax lips, teeth and mustaches, roller skate keys, black and white TV if you were lucky, Fess Parker and coon skin caps, pop guns, etc, we are asked to only remember the good things. There was a whole lot of bad also. No one sends out an email asking us to remember those things.
Hey kids, remember those air raid drills where you had to dive under your desks and you dreamed all night after that of being vaporized? No one sends those out.
Bear, how do you define yourself politically?
And don’t start singing “God is Great, Beer is Good and People are Crazy!”
Totally agree about the SS fund. The two parties colluded to make that a joke and robbed us all.
Yes they did rob us and they have been doing it for year. Now Virginia is robbing the state pension fund. Same difference. I don’t hear the hue and cry I feel I should be hearing.
Moon, that’s because the press likes it too. Both parties made it sound like a good idea and the press ran with it. Then, something else took a boring, wonkish, story off of the front page and out of view.
Moon, I think of myself as a Progressive (Liberal if you will) but I am not radical, I hope.
I don’t believe we can get by with no government and during a crisis I expect them to help everyone. I would like both parties to work together for the benefit of all with no obstruction just to make some statement or re-election. We all don’t have to agree but we should respect each other and try to understand. Did I mention : I think Obama is trying to do a good job.