John McCain has flip-flopped more than a fish recently. Gone is the moderate Republican. McCain has probably learned his lesson after being challenged by far right contender Hayworth. McCain has now jumped on the Tea Party express and has voted against the Dream Act and the repeal of DADT. 2 years ago he supported both of these initiatives. Not only did McCain flip flop on DADT, he led the charge. What’s more defense than gays in the military?
The Dream Act would have been a boon to the military also. According to Salon.com:
For the fifth time in a decade, the Dream Act died in the Senate. It’s one of those rare policy ideas that would benefit both the military and the budget — and it’s one that Tea Party-type deficit-hawk/hawk-hawks should have rallied behind. It was even a boon for states’ rights. Yet, it became the latest victim of xenophobia and partisan politics.
The Dream Act (short for Development, Relief and Education for Alien Minors) was designed to solve one of the most heart-wrenching injustices in our immigration system. Some 2.1 million undocumented immigrants were brought to the United States, through no fault of their own, as children. And despite having spent their entire lives here, their parents’ illegal status prevents them from obtaining legal residency. The Dream Act would give these children a chance to “earn” their green cards, allowing them to apply for temporary legal status; then, if they maintain “good moral character” (at a minimum, keep a clean criminal record), graduate from high school, and either complete two years of college or military service, they’d obtain permanent residence.
Right now, there are stories aplenty of children who discover the cruel fact that they are deportable when they apply for their driver’s license. Or of high school valedictorians who are snatched off planes and threatened with deportation because their parents never sorted out their paperwork.
Right now, these children, who are Americans in all ways except having papers, cannot serve in the military without legal residency paperwork. To reject the Dream Act is just foolish. We need good American residents. We need people who work hard and want to serve their country. Passing the Dream Act would be win/win.
McCain flip-flopped on this issue. First he was for it before he was against it. Shame on him. Do campaign promises not count if you don’t win?
McCain is an opportunist
Who has fooled himself and others into believing he’s a public servant
Obama is the same
Except that the Dream Act allows the terms for the “kids” to apply to those under the age of…wait for it……35.
From the same people that brought you “26 year old children.”
If they want to allow children of aliens to be allowed to become citizens, write a straight forward, simple bill that states that CHILDREN will have a path. However, that then allows them to bring their family to the states….oh, yeah, the illegal alien parents.
Send them home..
That said I’m glad the DREAM Act went down again. “We need good American residents” well rewarding lawbreaking is probably a bad, short-sighted idea.
Notice how Obama, Reid, the whole Democratic party doesn’t so much care about actually implementing a high-minded “comprehensive reform” – and accordingly, have no specific plan on the table – but intend to trot it out near election time in perpetuity to galvanize the Latino vote in their favor. it’s the same cynical ploy that the republicans use the “abortion” issue to do.
Oh, and this is why McCain was not popular with conservatives. He changes his position to easily to that which he thinks will get votes. His whole “bi-partisanship” was just crossing the aisle in order to be popular. True bi-partisanship would be his convincing DEMOCRATS to cross the aisle too, instead of just cooperating with Democrats and voting with them.
The Dream Act would not have been automatic citizenship. It would have give them legal residency if they went to 2 years of college or served in the military.
And @Rick, the kids didn’t break the law. Rewarding making good grades is never a bad thing.
Most kids who would take advantage of the dream act don’t know their country of origin.
As for kids 26 being on a health care policy….You got a grown kid? Some of them go to grad school. Some of them take entry level jobs that have no benefits. Its a safety net. And it costs no one but you any money.
35 on the dream act? Where is that written? How many people do you think would get caught up in that? Not many.
Who the hell is going to support the kids if you send the parents home???????????????????????????????????????????????????
What a cluterf*&%K of epic porportions. You have children WANTING to do more, be productive, and yet as soon as they turn 18, they have no where to go, no possibility of working and contributing to society in a meaningful and lawful way. Ah, but I guess since they aren’t MY kids, who cares. What is that saying , cut off your nose to spite your face?
Send the whole family home. Yes, the kids don’t have knowledge of the home country. THAT is the parents fault and is not our problem. Either we enforce immigration laws or we do not. Perhaps those kids can use their “Americanism” to improve the home country so that they don’t need to leave.
“the kids didn’t break the law”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_Service_System
Am I the crazy one for thinking that people should go to college generally in the nation they are citizens of?
Dream Act: Who it affects: http://www.americasnewsonline.com/immigration-reform-what-is-the-dream-act-909/
The requirements are that the illegal is between 12 and 35 years old and entered the U S before age 16, has been in the US for five consecutive years, and has a US high school diploma or GED. They must also display “Good moral character.”
If these requirements are satisfied, the alien would receive a six year temporary residence, in which time they must either complete a degree from a United States institution of higher learning, be in good standing with two years towards a bachelors degree, or have served in the uniform services for two years, having an honorable discharge if not still in the service. If he or she fails to do one of these things, they will return to the illegal status he had prior to receiving the six year temporary residence.
We have LOTS of foreign students in the country Rick.
Therefore, if they are 34 years old, been here since the crossed the border at the age of 15, they get rewarded for being an illegal alien for almost 20 years. I thought this was about CHILDREN getting a path to citizenship. This is nothing more than pandering to the “latino” population to get votes.
Once they have a temporary residence, they get a green card with all that entails. If they do this for five years, and then fail they return to illegal status? So are they then deported? Probably not. And if they have time to meet the age requirements, do they get to have second chance? Or a third? This is nothing more than a “path to citizenship.”
Illegal aliens already have a path to citizenship. Go home and apply like all the other immigrants who do it the hard way. What we need is true immigration reform so as to let LEGAL immigrants emigrate to America more easily. Anyone that wants to be an American is welcome as long as they follow the rules.
And if they do want to let children of illegal immigrants become American citizens, how do you document when they came to this country since they will be using false documents to begin with?
Personally, I think that we should put up some Ellis Islands on the border with camps to house people while being processed. If you enter from Mexico, you get processed. Put it out that we will take all honest people willing to become American citizens. Have them bring their families. Make the offer good for about 5-6 years. Watch Mexico and points south, but mainly Mexico, scream to high heaven about immigration. They will switch their position so fast that they will break the laws of physics. They will be forced to make their country more upwardly mobile. Right now, only the black markets offer an upwardly mobile existence.
Easy, take the kids with you and support them!
Blame their parents, who KNEW they were doing wrong!
I hadn’t seen the “X” word in a little while! Imagine Salon.com name-calling! Hard to believe!
“We have LOTS of foreign students in the country Rick.”
Absolutely. And they pay out-of-state tuition rates. The whole arguement with the Dream Act is whether we should use taxpayer dollars to subsidize college eeducation of other nations’ citizens.
“What a cluterf*&%K of epic porportions. You have children WANTING to do more, be productive, and yet as soon as they turn 18, they have no where to go, no possibility of working and contributing to society in a meaningful and lawful way. Ah, but I guess since they aren’t MY kids, who cares. What is that saying , cut off your nose to spite your face?”
Does it occur to you that the Dream Act provides yet another incentive to illegal immigration? The way one feels about the Dream act is going to be in line with whether one wants to encourage or discourage illegal immigration.
What a cynical political ploy. What’s next. You know, crack cocaine sentencing laws aren’t popular in the African-American community, since they’ve resulted in such a large population of black men being incarcerated. Maybe the Democratic party should undertake a “Dream act” for crack dealers. Maybe it should ensure that if they get incarcerated, any of their children will get in-state tuition rates in any state. How can anyone oppose this?
If you’re not a citizen, or registered visitor, you shouldn’t be in our college. Or high school. Or elementary school. Or living “in the shadows’ at all.
Yes, those evil parents who wanted more for their children, how dare they! Yes, my evil great grand parents for smuggling their young sick child through Ellis Island……..
Apparently your evil great grand parents were granted citizenship. We’re just lucky that said sick kid was not part of an epidemic.
They got away with it. Congratulations. What you you say if your ancestor was responsible for getting a bunch of people sick? Or worse, dead?
Either way, that does not excuse the current crop of illegal aliens expecting the US to take up the slack for their law breaking. Why do we have to continue to excuse the behavior of illegal aliens and let them have a pass because enforcing the law is unpleasant for the illegal alien?
Elena, should their be any immigration laws or should we just have an open borders policy that states, “if you can make it here, you’re a citizen?” That is effectively what you are advocating. It IS OUR FAULT that these illegal aliens have been here long enough to “grow up American” and to have no knowledge of their home country. It is the fault of all those unwilling to enforce our laws. If we, again, ignore our laws, we encourage and allow more of the same.
The penalty for being an illegal alien is supposed to be deportation. Anything else IS AMNESTY.
You forgot to mention 400+ tax payer funded elective abortion clinics!
If there weren’t a continuing and very large issue with people coming here from central and South America then I would have no problem granting Amnesty, In-State tuition, whatever to a small group of people. But point in fact we have a huge problem.
I don’t think taking hard working young people into the military or a college is a problem to society at all. I think the only thing preventing it is extreme stubborness, meaness, and being mired in ones own ideologues to the point of irrationality.
They are here. Why would you take a decent hard-working English speaking person raised in America and deport them?
Again,
Do we enforce our immigration laws or do we ignore them because its hard to enforce them? On its face, your scenario sounds good, Moon. But how does that prevent more illegal immigration?
Young People = the illegal alien is between 12 and 35 years old and entered the U S before age 16, has been in the US for five consecutive years
That young person? 34 years old, committing fraud for at least 20 years to stay in the US?
We keep talking about “immigration reform?” Why don’t the supporters of the current ideas just come out and state that they don’t believe that the current laws should be enforced? Because all the reforms being mentioned will just encourage MORE illegal immigration.
Make it easier to be a LEGAL immigrant while strictly enforcing laws against illegal immigration. I have no problem with taking every single one of the world’s hard working people and having them declare allegiance to the US. And ONLY to the US.
Heck, one of my ideas at the surrender of Hong Kong was for the US to drive a couple of carrier groups to the island, and tell the inhabitants, “next stop, USA.” There’s nothing wrong with our economy that 2-3 million chinese immigrants/new Americans couldn’t fix.
And again, let’s keep this on track. the question isn’t whether they can go to college. They can. the question is whether to make them eligible for grants and loans intended for US citizens.
The question is whether to give them a green card with all that applies.
I doubt seriously that the Dream Act is going to be an incentive for illegal immigration. Most immigrants I have known wouldn’t be motivated to come here by that.
The incentive comes from within the kids themselves. And that is something I would want to encourage, not discourage.
Kids really are victimized by it all. As for the 35 year olds. That is a stretch. I suppose that it lines up with the selective service act re age.
I saw no mention of in-state tuition. I did see no Pell Grant. Actually I could care less about in-state tuition. If the student has lived in-state for the required length of time, let them compete with everyone else for admission. If they pass muster, let them in. If they don’t, let them find a college.
Kids are victimized when their parents cheat on taxes, get arrested for burglary, etc. etc.
The Dream Act makes me sick. Instead of working to uphold American law, our elected representatives work to collude to make it a joke. A joke whose punchline is “mobilizing the Latino vote”.
I see what cargosquid is saying – the bill is really about giving permanent residency. wikipedia’s description – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DREAM_Act
Not eligible for Pell grants, but entitled to apply for student loans.
An estimated 65,000 illegal immigrant students[12] graduate from high school each year.[13] However, it is not known how many of those were eligible go on to complete the further requirements. It is estimated that currently only 7,000–13,000 college students nationally can fulfill the further obligations, a drastic drop from the already limited pool of those initially eligible.[14]
Another startling bit of hypocrisy – why is it that we’re told basic law enforcement needs to be part of a “comprehensive solution”, but something like this which is politically expedient for Democrats is cherry-picked out and rolled out by itself?
@Moon-howler
Stretch? That’s from the bill. That’s the requirements. This is not about helping kids. Its about providing illegal immigrants with permanent residency status by passing a bill that “for the children.”
The incentive will be for more illegal immigrants to come here for an easy green card.
@cargosquid
I’d check with Canadians in Vancouver about Chinese immigrants.
Cargo, who do you think the bill is actually aimed at? I doubt very few 35 year olds would be interested.
It is mostly for young people who have come up through the ranks of high school. There must be some reason the ceiling is that high. It might have to match selective service age limits. Hell if I know.
All I know is there is not point in having American young adults who are good students who could serve their country or enter academic fields. You might be intrested to see how many of our Latino students are enrolled in ROTC programs in this area. They take it very seriously and have really been an asset to our local programs.
Cargo, I meant I feel extending the age limit to 35 is a stretch but there might be a good reason, unbeknownst to me.
“who do you think the bill is actually aimed at”
Apparently from what I linked to before, at most 7,000-10,000 young people.
15 million? illegal immigrants here undercutting wages and increasing povert level and costing the rest of us thousands of dollars each year, and the Democrats have their people fired about about the “Dream Act” which affects maybe 10,000 people. It reminds me of the way the republicans used to use partial-birth abortions, which were hardly ever performed in the US to start with, as a wedge issue in elections. The dream Act is political gamesmanship, not a solution to a real problem.
@Moon-howler
Thank you, Moon howler. I really enjoy your perspective. It’s difficult to read the other posts. Hostile adults lining up against earnest, promising youth. The mob mentality won’t win, in the end. Those who hold such animosity for “illegals” in general and their blameless children in particular can hate pretty much anyone, including each other. Bonds based on shared hatred can’t hold. Love binds. Hate destroys. The mob will destroy itself.
With a little tinkering, I could support a variation of the Dream Act. If the college option were dropped and the Act required SERVICE to the country, then it would be worthwhile to permit illegals to “earn” green cards. Perhaps three years in the military or Peace Corps would be sufficient. These veteran soldiers should then be able to take advantage of the G.I. Bill to go to college after their service is complete.
Simply attending college should not be enough to earn a green card — service to the country should be a prerequisite.
I love ponies!!!
7,000-10,000 young illegal immigrants who have made good grades and have stayed out of trouble sounds like good news to me. I guess that blows the myth that they all join gangs to hell, doesn’t it?
Some will want to join the military, some might want to go to college. Some might want to go to technical skill such as an IT center. Great news! You can never have enough industrious young people who at least consider themselves Americans.
Bull crap. This is not happening. Right wing propaganda.
Hello, if you want to come back, why do you keep posting comments that aren’t part of the conversation and that are inflammatory? I explained it all to you.
I don’t care much for ponies. My mother always told me they were the invention of the Devil.
Boy31. Some of what they are saying is for shock value. But thanks.
Kelly, I disagree. The kids have done their part. They have gone to school and often, despite all odds, have succeeded. Many of these kids have defied poverty and have parents who don’t have much education themselves. Working hard is the value in many of these homes. That’s ok. That is what has caused their economic success. Yet, some kids don’t fall into the labor end of working hard. They keep their academics up and are often more successful than their legal counterparts.
Do you want to look these kids in the eye and say no, you can’t go to college? I sure don’t. Perhaps you have never known any of these kids and haven’t seen for yourself what they have accomplished. I have. So are the ROTC kids. Different strokes. All are good kids.
I simply don’t like people who hold the parents against kids. I have known too many wonderful adults of all stripes who have come from pure crap parents and have gone on to be leaders and have contributed over and over again to society. Kids can’t help what their parents do or who they are. They are powerless.
That’s bull. Anybody can get into a community college, regardless of grades. So long as a person has a high school diploma or GED, (s)he can get into some type of college.
I am not saying they cannot go to college. I am saying that they have to do something more than attend a few college classes to earn a green card. And no, I would have no trouble looking them in the eye when I told them that.
That’s bull? I am not talking about going to community college. I am talking about going through high school and making really good grades. Obviously, from what you just said, you really have no clue what you are talking about.
Why not plant your elitist tail in a high school with skewed demographics and just observe for a week. Still better, offer to tutor kids who don’t have someone at home to help them with their studies. No one is asking you to slum…take the brightest and best but make sure they are immigrants. Talk to the kids, get to know them. Then come back and tell me that they haven’t achieved much of anything.
I believe they have to complete 2 years of college to be eligible for a green card.
Not everyone is middle class. That may come as a shock.
@Moon-howler
Actually I have tutored (including disabled children) at the high school level and taught at the university level.
I do not disagree that some of these kids will have performed well in high school. But successful completion of two years of college proves nothing. It does not indicate that a student did well in high school nor that he is a serious student. There are plenty of diploma factories that will accept anyone and give them at least a ‘C’ as long as they pay up on tuition and fees. You see lots of these institutions near military bases, for example.
There is plenty of opportunity for this to turn into a scam in which a person simply pays an “institution of higher learning” to get his green card.
As for calling me an elitist, you know absolutely nothing about me.
You are absolutely right. I don’t know you. I can only judge you by the way you talk on a blog. And you sounded elitist in your post. And sometimes there is nothing wrong with being elitist. When it comes to kids though, I get a little edgy.
Right now, many kids, depending on what state they live in, can’t do the 2 years in college. the fact that they want to even go to college or be in ROTC or enlist is a big deal, at least to me. Right now they cannot enlist.
Not everyone is cut out for the military. Some people can’t qualify. There need to be several ways of doing this.
I basically dislike ceilings for people, especially people who are slamming into them through no fault of their own.