You know how you see the words WASH ME on the back of a dusty truck…I just got reminded, not too subtly, to change the Open Thread from last week. This the month of the witch…..
104 Thoughts to “Open Thread Friday October 1, 2010”
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- Citizen Tom
- Counts of Monte Cristo. The
- Derecho, The
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- One Libertarians's Point of View by Al Alborn
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- PW Conservation Alliance
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- PWCPolitics.com
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- Shad Plank, The
- She the People
- State of NoVA, the
- The Jeffersoniad
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- WDGolden.com
- You, Me and the Lamp Post
From the earlier thread about Whitman’s “illegal” alien
“Cargo, I think in this area the crowd that was the most vocal about illegal immigration was from within the Republican party. Nationwide, I couldn’t tell you but here, it was definitely Republican.”
The partisanship came from Allred. She’s the one that put her own client in legal jeopardy in order to score points against Whitman. Of course, the Republicans are making the most outcry about hiring illegal aliens. And, of course, the outcry in California is only loud in relation to the rest of California. And now, the truth is coming out that there is no story here. Whitman hired a woman she believed to be a legal resident.
Looks like the N&M is reporting on tomorrow’s “peaceful protest” and the organizer expects 50 people to show up. How, nice the mother daughter team put off their grand opening, but the opposition chooses to protest the same day as the Fall Jubilee. The protest might be staged at City Hall, and there will be plenty of people strolling by City Hall too. The parking situation is tight on the day of such a big event. People will be parking in the residential areas outside of the immediate area of the Jubilee.
http://www2.insidenova.com/news/2010/oct/01/1/adult-store-protest-planned-ar-536383/
Yes, she is trying to work with the City.
One of the ‘reasons’ I was given for opposing this shop (by an elected official) was that if people find out, they won’t come back. Bwaaahahahaha
So they have a protest when the shop isn’t even open and when the city is filled with tourists to stage a protest. I think that reason I was given was somewhat disingenuous, don’t you?’
Its all about bullying and power. The protestors ought to stay “uptight and outta sight,” just like Stevie Wonder suggests.
Let’s not forget they will be protesting a shop that is perfectly LEGAL and approved by the City of Manassas. The city got caught with it’s pants down on this one and have to let the business open. Afterall, the owners did follow the proper application process.
People might not want to come back when they see 50 people protesting on what is typicallly a fun filled day.
The fact that there are other stores in the City that have the same genre of merchandize is also misleading. Elitism reigns. The location is just a ruse also. People just don’t want their neighbors seeing them go in there.
Old Town Manassas only gets my business from the Farmers Market and this little shop that sells wines and teas and other things (I just can’t recall the name maybe my wife knows it). I’ll eat at Mackey’s too (yummy!). But, other than that I just seee empty shops or shops that just don’t appeal to me.
My wife and I will go to KK when it opens. If she wants something she can have it. I have no problem saying so publicly.
As a fiscal conservative I want the market to decide if the business will succeed or fail and not government.
The earth spins backwards. Marin and I agree. The shrimp at City Tavern on Tuesday are terrific also. I don’t have a problem giving them up if I dont find th ecity welcoming to anyone but the Uptight and Outta Sight folks.
I actually feel that war on women has been declared in the City. The fact that everyone targetted by the Uptights and the City is female cannot go unnoticed.
When I was a young person and in college, they controlled the boys by controlling the girls. It has been a long time since I was in college. I thought society had changed. Apparently not that much…
Btw, the national Tea Party convention is being held in Richmond this weekend. I can’t make it though. Some of you should c’mon down!
@cargosquid
Are you asking some of us to step over to the dark side?
Which of the National Tea Parties? That confuses me.
I actually feel that war on women has been declared in the City. The fact that everyone targetted by the Uptights and the City is female cannot go unnoticed.
So true. Nothing scares some men as much as female sexuality. Gotta control those women…
Hah, Censored, Mrs. W believes the exact opposite; and old W has heard an earful of that for a long time. She is a firm believer in much of what happened during the women’s liberation movement, including equal treatment in education and in the workplace, a learned respect for the capabilities of women, an opening to top level politics, smashing of the glass ceiling, and just about anything else. She also realizes that there is still a lot of ground to cultivate in most of those areas. However, she also says that the lib movement betrayed women in one sense. It gave an opening to men to encourage those kinds of female behaviors, including casual sex and the like, which ensured that the males of the species would have enhanced access for the insertion of Tab A into Slot B without serious consequences afterward. Now it has become too often “Slam, bam, and thank you, ma’am.” And she ends such conversations by claiming that “Women have done it to themselves by buying into the male scam. Acceptance of personal responsibility for consequences, modesty, fidelity, and personal probity seem to have become history.” She also fumes about what we have done to our young girls. She comes home from school grumping about how many of those girls, unless brought to book by management, try to advertise their physical wares like meat on the hoof and then throw themselves at the boys like they had just come over from the Red Light District. And many of the males seem to just love it when a plan comes together. No moral restraints. Really the “Land of Opportunity.” Easy pickings.
Women shouldn’t be bimbos. They should make good choices for themselves. Sexuality freedom doesn’t have to mean making bad choices.
Some women will always be encouraged by males. I noticed that when my mother was in assisted living, there were still some old women making total floozies out of themselves. It was fairly disgusting. However it hit me that 70 years ago this one old girl was making as big of an ass out of herself as she was at the moment.
Not all women bougbt in to the ‘male scam.’ Actually men have been issuing the same scam since there have been men. Some men are very afraid of female sexuality. I believe that Censored isn’t takling about people acting promiscuous (men and women can both be promiscuous.) I believe she simply meant women comfortable with their sexuality.
She is free to correct me if I am wrong.
As for Mrs. W’s observations- I don’t necessarily think that WE have done it to girls. I think she is probably as horrified as my great grandmother was during the roaring 20s. A great deal of blame can be laid at the feet of TV and advertising. Its difficult to insist your daughter wear shorts that cover her butt when you simply can’t find any in the store.
Perhaps Mrs. W and I are agreeing but blame a different culprit.
Schools don’t enforce dress codes as they should because they cave to parents who threaten to sue every time you make someone cover their cleavage or midriff. And while I am this subject, 13 and 14 year olds don’t need to be wearing thongs.
And while I am on a soap box…@ Wolverine….what ever became of first amendment issues and also respecting your elders and showing some chivalry to women?
I have been vilified and trashed because I have spoken out and stood up for 2 women. It doesn’t matter that I am someone’s wife, someone’s mother, someone’s sister, and someone’s grandmother. The same nasty disrespect has been shown to me (and to Elena and someone else) as if we were Afghani women ready to be stoned for our thoughts.
The thing is, and I believe this, short of burning down my house there is really nothing the Taliban-like verbal thugs can do to me. I don’t have a job and I don’t answer to anyone but myself. Nor does Mr. Howler (who still holds doors for women and treats those older than himself with respect.) So I laugh at them.
None of this as anything to do with Wolverine. He just commented and I picked up where he left off. Again, people’s hypocrisy is just endless.
Wolverine, I think every generation finds some reason to fault teenagers for how they dress. Nothing new there. It’s just surprising (well, not to me) that more criticism is hurled at females. I know, I know …some guys wear pants that practically fall to their knees. But most criticism is addressed to girls’ overly revealing clothes.
Actually, I wasn’t talking about teens and their fads, but about adult women…and not necessarily about their clothing. I believe in sex ed. in schools. I believe in easy access to contraception. It doesn’t bother me that women may be as sexually active as men. If they take precautions and know what they’re doing, why should I care? Why should a certain member or two of our local City Council care? And why should those Council members try to regulate women’s clinics or shops that cater to women’s sexual side? What are they afraid of?
Do you find it offensive that the Council has one female member? Our County Board is no better. Meddlesome men – that’s what we’re seeing lately. Paternalism at its finest. Even the argument that this shop degrades women is paternalistic. It ignores the fact that adults may be sexual beings. Women can exploit their sexuality just as men can. And I believe that it is this freedom of expression that has the local Puritans upset.
Storybook Land, two miles south of Woodbridge on US 1, finished
its first year exactly 50 years ago today with “over 40,000
happy customers for the season”. Remember taking my
children there in the mid 1970’s when it was a popular destination for
birthday parties – anyone remember when it closed and what is located
on the property now?
It’s a sad state of affairs when the best choice for who should be my congressman is none of the above. Picking between Fimian and Connolly is like picking between a colonoscopy and a root canal … I don’t want either one.
Storybook land had some big snakes lurking in there. @ Big Dog Kids loved it though. I just always kept my eyes peeled for slitherers.
@Censored Agreed.
I am sure my grandparents had fits over stuff I did. Now I am going to date Censored and me but there was a great deal of control over women when she and I were coming along as young women. The glass ceiling was a mile thick. Women couldn’t continue with their jobs if visibly pregnant and many jobs were closed off to women. Reliable contraception wasn’t all that reliable. Old town gossips kept everyone in line by talking about the girls. Meanwhile the boys didn’t have to bear the same scrutiny.
Example, I once heard my mother say that one of my brothers was getting married and ‘making an honest woman’ out of his intended bride. WTF!!!! I couldn’t stand it. I told my mother perhaps the ‘bride’ was making an honest man out of him. But seriously, that was the mind set.
I was lippy and independent even then…I also got those lips smacked enough that I knew not to push it too far.
You could know that Frank Wolf was going to be your congressman regardless of what you did. However, I would take 100 Frank Wolfs over 1 Fimian.
Censored, I think one of things that Mrs. W sees much too often is the fact that, even if you teach about “protection” loudly and strongly, you see far too often one of two results; (1) the contraceptives fail; or (2) somehow they are forgotten or dispensed with under partner pressure. She, as both a nurse and teacher, has seen far too much of the rise of STD’s in our youthful population, especially under the ludicrous idea that you cannot get an STD if you practice only oral sex. (She also says that Moon is right about those assisted living facilities. The STD rates are rising among the elderly as well. Go figure.) Mrs. W always adds that we, as adults, are increasingly having a hard time getting our kids to listen on just about anything and that the dangers of promiscuity and unprotected sex are far too often falling into that same category no matter how much you try to pass along the warnings. She also feels that these casual attitudes have contributed to a deterioration in personal relationships and fidelity, as evidenced by the huge divorce rate among girls younger than 23. It seems like every day she hears about youthful marital partnerships which are headed down the divorce trail over the most specious of reasons — sort of like “I just don’t love you anymore, so I’m leaving” or “I’m tired of this relationship and want something else.”
Wolverine is one of the male species who is old enough to remember when certain goals were far tougher to reach for most guys. Some time ago, Mrs. W came home from a day at school and asked me if I knew about the “Chicken Dance.” W replied that he certainly knew about that stupid dance one often sees at wedding receptions. Then she explained what she really meant. W stared at her for a moment, envisioning what she had just described. You mean at parties the boys all line up and….? Well, Hell, I’m not going to go into detail on this blog.
Ok, Wolvine. Poke my eyes out. blind me. I just had to go look it up. I am now praying for blindness and am totally scarred for life.
I don’t think what I saw is what you just hinted at. No line up of boys. Perhaps you need to get Mrs. W over to the computer to enlighten this old girl.
Wolverine, I think that contraception other than condoms should be available to sexually active teens. And, yes, education about STDs is important.
I’m not so sure that relationships are really more casual today. It was just much harder to divorce decades ago. Two years to get a divorce was not uncommon and along with that came an unequal distribution of property. I had several friends who married just out of high school or after a year of college. Faithfulness was not one of their top priorities and most were long ago divorced. I’ll agree that people now are used to getting what they want when they want it, and that contributes to not wanting to put much effort into problem-solving.
Moon, I think I saw why you may feel the need to wash your eyes out. But, that wasn’t it. I don’t want to put the details here. Suggest you Google up the Urban Dictionary under “chicken neck.” Look at the third item down. Then imagine a line of boys facing a line of girls. First one to complete the action wins. As Mrs, W has remarked, extracurricular activity has certainly taken a different and disgusting turn in some quarters.
UFB! Ok, so where does this happen? I have a mental image of the gym, sort of like they did the stroll when Mr. H was in high school.
I think one thing that astounds me is how people don’t seem to want or need privacy. I even was amazed by this when I was in college. It has only gotten worse.
@Big Dog
Big Dog, when we came back in 1989, there were still a few structures up and the parking lot was starting to get some grass in it. So it had to close probably in the mid 1980’s. I think it is just an overgrown patch of trees there but there may still be some remnants of the attractions in the woods.
I hope not since it probably would not be a safe place and kids would find it an attractant.
I haven’t looked closely at the property in years.
When we came back also, parts of the sign was still up. My kids used to call the place “ory ook and”
good grammar, Rez. parts of the sign WERE still up.
What is at that site now? re Ory OOk And
Nothing that I know of. I think it across from a junk yard–
old site on the left when going north from Dale Blvd. on US 1
@Rez, I cant even remember where it is in relationship to all the new stuff. I don’t frequent noute 1 much any more. I do remember going to the Lazy Susan a few times. Anyone else remember the old Hayloft days? That was fun for sure.
@Moon-howler
Ooooopps. Editing is not my forte, apparently. The convention is NEXT WEEKEND:
http://www.vateapartyconvention.com/
The Lynchburg Tea Party has good info too.
http://lynchburgteaparty.com/2010/06/tea-party-convention-october-8th-9th-richmond/
VIRGINIA TEA PARTY CONVENTION
Friday, October 08, 2010 8:00 AM –
Saturday, October 09, 2010 5:00 PM (Eastern Time)
Richmond Convention Center
(804) 783-7300
403 North 3rd Street
Richmond, Virginia 23219
As for national, I meant that members of the Tea Party are invited from around the nation.
Not a national Tea Party. There ain’t no such aminal….
It is, primarily, Virginia Tea Party members doing stuff.
Y’all should come down. If only to study the “enemy.”
United States
Censored, I don’t find it “offensive” that your “Council” and PWC “Board” have so few female members. I do find it rather mystifying though for a part of a metropolitan suburbia-exurbia where education and professionalism are so widespread. The Loudoun County nine-person Board of Supervisors currently has five women on it. The elected Mayor of Leesburg, the county seat, is a woman. In a couple of those cases I would place the “meddlesome” shoe on the opposite sexual foot, although two in the male minority really take the prize. But, then, that just comes from personal political perspective. Others around her would give you the opposite view.
Perhaps it is the women of PWC who should be taking a look at themselves. Without trying to start a debate over political ideology, I think these women would do well to start looking at the Sarah Palin model from a pure governance participation aspect. Town council to mayor to governor. Not a bad deal. I see a lot of PWC female citizen activists on or mentioned in this blog, but why is it that no one actually throws their hat in the ring and makes a strong move to sway the current ratio?
Wolverine – Nobody under 23 should be thinking about getting married in the first place. You have no idea who you are and what you are doing. That’s probably why the divorce rate is so high in that demographic.
Several city women competed for appointment to the Manassas council seat vacated by Steve Smith — Audrey Sensale (a neighborhood advocate) and Dora Brooks (former school board member) — that eventually went to Sheryl Bass.
I don’t think the “Grizzly Mom” model would be as effective as a Sue Sylvester – Glee type. That would certainly move things forward. Can you imagine these gems from the dias?
“Nobody quits…[the Cheerios]. You either die or I kick you off.”
“I’m about to projectile express myself all over your Hush Puppies.”
“Do you not understand the blackmail process and how it works?”
“Never let anything distract you from winning.”
“You three are boring me now. I’m gonna go do something else.”
Cindy b — “Grizzly Mom” per se was not exactly what I had in mind in my last post. You play the political game according to the particular circumstances of the place in which you are located. What works in Alaska as far as achieving local elected office probably won’t work in many places outside the Rocky Mountain states of the Lower 48. My point was purely the idea of actually entering politics and working your way up a chain until you arrive at successive places with increasing influence and power. It is being done in Loudoun in spades, and Loudoun in many ways has “cultural” similarities with PWC. As Teddy Roosevelt once posited, it is the person who enters the arena who deserves the applause. So, the point I was trying to make was, if it is found “offensive” that there is a lack of women in powerfull places in PWC, then more women need to enter that arena and do so with aggressiveness.
Thank you Rez – I couldn’t remember the timeline on Storybook Land.
M-H, the Hayloft has sweet memories for many folks. Great shows –
often highlighting a noted star or starlet, gourmet food, reasonable cost
and not a long drive. Many young parents with modest budgets and sitters
to get home, found it perfect for special occasions.
Indeed it does have sweet memories, Big Dog. I was sad when it closed down. What a fun time that was. What was the cost of a ticket, approximately? 20 bux a person? Do you remember what year it closed?
Wolverine, I can’t imagine why anyone in this area, male or female would consider running given the political climate. We have females run for office and they are treated like pieces of garbage. It is almost impossible to describe.
The behavior directed by the junk yard dogs to political opponents is more like the Sopranos with spools of piano wire. Democratic men don’t fare much better other than most can weather sexual innuendo thrown their way a little better than the women can.
Most people aren’t that willing to serve…to run themselves through that guantlet.
@Disgusted
Welcome to Disgusted.
I tend to agree with you although I am not sure there really is a magic bullet age. I am not sure I had much more sense at 23 than at 20. I think I would up the age to 30 for women and 35 for men.
Cargo, thanks for the clarification. Thanks for the invitation to cross over to the dark side :mrgreen:.
Note: dark side is not equal to dark screen
To everyone who had to wait a long time to be let out of moderation: I am sorry there was such a long wait. I was out.
I know there are new faces/monikers here this weekend. Welcome to Moonhowlings.net.
A reminder to new posters: your first post will get hung up in moderation. It isn’t you, its everybody. Once you are approved the first time, as long as you use the same address, you won’t go to moderation on subsequent posts.
I am not the best at always checking for moderation hang ups. Apologies in advance.
Cindy, that really was very funny. You captured the spirit, if she even has one.
Try your hand at seating the Supreme Court in order of apppointment:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/supreme_court_seating/index.html?hpid=artslot
I like your moon phases gizmo.
I have to agree. I haven’t met many people who were really ready for everything marriage brings before 30. It does happen, but not much anymore.
People who love the Tea Party will hate Matt Taibbi’s Rolling Stone article “Tea & Crackers” (http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/17390/210904?RS_show_page=0) and will dismiss it as a liberal elite media hit job. People who loathe the Tea Party will find it reinforces the perception that many tea patiers are hypocrites who hate government and government spending, except for the programs and handouts that benefit them. (As Taibbi notes, many at the rally were complaining about entitlement programs while seated on their Medicare paid-for scooters.)
A point Taibbi makes that I hadn’t considered: Everyone who disagrees with them is a radical leftist who hates America. It would be inaccurate to say the Tea Partiers are racists. What they are, in truth, are narcissists.
@Slow
I can’t disagree with that either. Now here is a question–are people more or less ready for marriage before 30 than they were in say, 1950?
It seems to me, just dipsticking, that people married younger back then than they do now.
I was 25. In many ways I think that is too young even.
@Moe, I will have to read that article. I hope some of the TPP people here will also read and give their opinion. I have found that saying Tea Party Person really doesn’t narrow the field very much. They are as different as day and night.
Certainly Cargo seems to have little in common with Christine O’Donnell who has little in common with Paladino.
Of course, I thought we had been espousing a libertarian position regarding KK Temptations and all that entailed. Now I see that supporting free markets and personal liberty is a liberal approach. Go figure.
@Slowpoke Rodriguez
Er, didn’t the divorce rate start to increase during the hippie age and sexual revolution? The people then didn’t even believe in marriage as much which means the people who got married previously (50’s and early 60’s) started getting divorced more often.
I also think the divorce rate started increasing once women in general decided they weren’t going to put up with sexist shit anymore. This had nothing to do with the age at which people got married. It had to do with a cultural shift. More women entered the workforce and discovered they didn’t have to stick with losers for the sake of a paycheck. Women could support themselves.
(Incidentally, I am not saying all or most men are shitheads. I am saying, however, that many women stayed in unhealthy relationships because they felt stuck.)
I don’t think it’s fair to say that anyone under the age of 23 should not get married. I have met some young people who are far more mature than any 35 year old.
Cultrual shift probably has a great deal to do with it.
I don’t think that the hippie age didn’t believe in marriage. Most people then, compared to the general population, weren’t hippies.
Maybe we are talking about 2 different things. Age of marriage vs divorce?
Is there any link or are other factors such as those suggested by Pinko more to blame for divorce?
@Posting as Pinko
There’s always a danger in generalizing, such as my post on marrying under 23. I think of our brave soldiers, the young enlisted, who go through so much at such a young age.
As far as divorce is concerned, I think the fact it is easier to get a divorce, along with women having careers outside the home, is part of the reason there are more today than 50 years ago. If you can’t support yourself and the kids, it makes one think about staying. I don’t think divorce, and the higher number today, is all bad, per Pinko’s points. Many are handcuffed by thir faith as well. What I find sorta sad is that it is so easy to go to the courthouse, show ID, pay a fee and BINGO – man & wife ( or whatever). Divorce is a legal maze. Maybe if a marriage license was as hard to do as a divorce decree it would weed out a few more.
@Disgusted I don’t know about the rest of the country, but getting a divorce in VA is a HUGE PIA. I am not sure this is a deterrent, however. It could be more people stay separated instead of going through the whole process or that they stay in bad marriages.
You are right that getting married is pretty easy unless you want to get married at a specific church that requires classes (or if you are GLBT).
I don’t know about excessively regulating marriage through government, though. I don’t believe the divorce process should be so messy (unless children, who need protection, are involved). Government should have little to say about marriage except to make the binding a legal contract or to process the legal paperwork to break that contract.
And yes, those in the armed forces for the most part are incredibly mature at a young age! Unfortunately, it seems there is a high divorce rate among those whose professions require time away from family and high risk. I believe the divorce rate in law enforcement is high as well.
So much depends on what you’ve done and experienced before you get married. I was 25, my husband 30. We had both been engaged to others; both had mothers who became widows, each with two young children, who had to scratch and toil to make a living. Not much help in those days. Safety net was not invented. We knew what marriage might bring.
Most of our friends married before the guy went to war (WWII) or after they graduated from college (on the GI bill). Divorce was an awful thing to even consider. Most married women stayed home. (Actually, there were only three jobs open for women, i.e. nurse, teacher, secretary.) However, there’s always ONE who’s different. One very talented potter decided she had had enough of domestic life and took off in her MG convertible and left her two early-teen age daughters with her husband. She also wore HIP HUGGERS!!!
I have two daughters, both divorced>
Potter as in on who works with clay? Works on a potters wheel? Would that be you, Puncak?
I think that in yesteryear, divorce was something people were ashamed of. It was like having a gambling addiction or something. I know I got nominated to go tell my parents that my brother was getting divorced. I drove down to their house and went through aoll this who shot John. He was very worried about their reaction.
Once I told them they both jumped up and danced the parental jig and said hooray! So much for paving the way.
I believe that divorce is often a very good thing. I think the fact that people didn’t divorce because of stupid reasons was bad. Religion, family expectations, and not being able to afford it are all bad reasons if one needs to dissolve ones marriage.
I also think divorce is very sad if children are involved. I am not advocating the people stay together because of the children either. I just think that any time kids live through divorce, their world changes. It is sometimes for the better and sometimes not for the better. I have rarely seen a child not affected in some way.
No, no, Moon, it wasn’t I. She ended up with her own pottery studio and gallery in So. Calif. and has a great relationship with her daughters.
– I had the good luck of falling in love at first sight and the love stayed with us for almost 50 years, when death ended it. I’ve been very, very lucky!
As for parents dancing at the news of divorce, I was glad for it, especially ONE of them. Oh, the wasted years!