Today, the Prince William County Board of Supervisors unanimously cut 8 more officers from the police department budget. That makes a total of 8 officers and 12 support staff in the past 2 years. In addition, a million dollars has been removed from their supplies budget. This would have covered training, radar, and other equipment. Another half million dollar cut is looming on the horizon. The cut became effective today.
There have been no new police officers added in the past 3 years. Supervisor Nohe asked if they were really cutting police officers. The answer is yes. Even though there were 8 vacancies, there are still 8 fewer uniformed officers out defending public safety today than there were yesterday because these positions were abolished and cannot be filled.
Perhaps one of the most devastating areas to be cut is in the schools. Starting 2011, there will be no police officers in middle schools. The school police officer program has been a highly successful one which cut down on neighborhood crime, bullying, gang membership and other annoyances that seem to plague kids of middle school age. These officers knew the kids, the teachers, the administrators, the bus drivers, and many of the parents and had a good working relationship with all of the above. They were able to ward of f potential problems. After this year, the schools will just have to call and get whoever responds.
There are still 6 officers who are authorized to process 287(g) related matters. These officers in the Criminal Alien Unit only work on issues dealing with illegal immigration and continue to be funded.
Prince William residents are going to have to decide how important public safety is to them. Most folks don’t give it much thought until something happens and they need a police officer, on the double. The wait time might be getting a lot longer as retiring officers are no longer replaced. This might be the time to start asking how much more of a loss can we take.
Reading the paper, it seems that PWC is plagued by more crime that is associated with inner city crime. Any time something large happens, many officers are tied up on the scene and cannot respond to other calls. When officers work a large crime scene, that means they aren’t out in your neighborhood or mine. Are we willing, as a county, to let this happen? Or should we start howling and demand that PWC begin to budget for these losses from the state. A few pennies added to our tax rate might make a great deal of difference in public safety in Prince William County.
How incredibly short sighted of the BOCS. SRO (school resource officers) are integral in helping steer children in the right direction. Often times, middle school, is the turning point for so many kids. That this county is so shortsighted, not to see the fiscal and social advantages of prevention is beyond my comprehension. Ever heard the saying……”an ounce of prevention…….” ?????????????????????????????????????
Being a middle school counselor in one of the most challenging schools in Fairfax County, we relied heavily on the relationship our SRO developed with our most at risk kids.
All I can say is unbelievable.
Yeah, kids and cops seem to be getting the short end of the stick here in PWC. Impressive.
“There have been no new police officers added in the past 3 years.”
What about the 21 PWC officers who graduated from the academy in December 2009 and the 14 officers who graduated this past June and are now assigned throughout the county?
It’s my understanding that the BOCS cut six positions, all of which were middle school resource officer positions and not officers out on the streets. These are tough decisions, but I would have to ask what you would be willing to let go of in a budget crunch. Something’s got to go, and everyone has a different idea of what should be the sacred cow in the interest of public safety. Do you choose the street cop or the resource officer? I would argue that if the schools bothered to actually enforce their own rules from the get-go, there would be no need to devote full-time police resources for that kind of oversight.
Emma, I will get those answers for you. I expect it is the attrition balance.
I wouldn’t make cuts to the police dept. for starters. I would increase the tax rate enough to cover public safety. I would tell the no new taxes people to bite me and explain how a civilized society prioritizes public safety, libraries and education.
If the state, [which is blowing and bragging about its surpluses and defers paying its VRS obligation yet claims a balanced budget], reduces what it kicks in to localities, the localities have to make up the difference.
That becomes you and me.
Throw a few more pennies onto the tax rate to compensate. That’s all we can do. The real estate assessments are still low. There are 2 components are work here. PWC needs to make the rate and the assessment balance to cover our quality of life demands.
What I find ridiculous is, No one asked Chief Deane if he felt he could loose 8 officers.
Here is the blurb regarding the resource officers.
http://www2.insidenova.com/news/2010/oct/05/county-eliminate-middle-school-resource-officer-po-ar-544557/
I will update the numbers in the body of the post above as new information arrives. The information above is preliminary. Expect changes if those figures need tweaking.
So maybe the kids in PWC are better adjusted than those in Fairfax, and so the PWC officers were redundant. Whine to Fairfax, but don’t bring up Fairfax when discussing PWC, two different worlds. One American, one not so much.
Agree Second Alamo – different demograhics and different expectations. EXCEPT, why does our BoCS ask everytime – Well, how do they do it in Fairfax??!!!
The placed rated guides used heavily for business development, retirement and relocations sure focus on schools, public safety and hospitals. Two are being targeted here. Let’s not forget Fire and Rescue. I like more of them as well. So does my insurance company. I’ve never heard of redundant cops. How many is too many? I’ve never needed any or been in a dangerous situation – did have a friends son at NOVA last year. That day I didn’t once think there were too many there. Not at all. Too bad we can’t keep half of them off the payroll and only call them in when there is a big gas leak, double/triple homicide or shooting. But I don’t think that works too well. So I will say, in this case and in Fire and Rescue’s case more is better!!! And if they know what to do when they arrive (because of good training) that’s even better 🙂
I would place Public Safety as close to a sacred cow as anything else. What would beat it?
@Emma
“These are tough decisions, but I would have to ask what you would be willing to let go of in a budget crunch. Something’s got to go . . .”
How about the $721,565 for Corey Stewart’s Wartime Museum cronies?
So when a kid brings a gun to school, I guess we don’t need police officers, eh? Happened at Marstellar a couple of years ago. And we all know bullying runs rampant in middle schools. A police presence in schools helps alleviate some of this, and a cop at a meeting with kids, parents and administrators is even better.
Apparently public safety is only a priority when it comes to tracking down “illegals.”
Which one’s not American?
What I find incredible about this $1.38 million budget cut is just a few short weeks ago (in the sole August meeting) the BofCS “found” an additional $712,000 of our tax dollars to fund raises for their office staff, albeit subsequently one Supervisor “donated” their $89,000 share to the Rainy Day Fund and the other donated their $89,000 share to the Montclair Library Fund. But why weren’t those funds returned to the General Fund to fund these budget cuts? In fact, why wasn’t the entire $712,000 returned to the General Fund? None of them knew this budget cut was coming? In addition, has anyone noticed the Dias upon which the BofCS sit has been renovated? Look at the archive videos of the last meeting in June and the first meeting in July, a five or six week span. The dias was renovated to what appears to be white oak. And there is obviously a new microphone communciation system. Now how is it they can find several thousands of dollars to renovate the Dias and they can find $712,000 for staff raises, but then cut $1.38 million primarily of Education and Public Safety budgets? The inconsistency regarding citizen’s priorities is simply amazing.
@Second-Alamo
I completely agree do NOT bring up FX when discussing PWC. My husband is a FX boy, and I’m a PWC girl. We have many heated debates over the two counties. I’ll take P-Dub over FX any day of the week. Juturna does bring up a good point that our BoS likes to invoke FX into the discussion. Public Safety should be the LAST thing to be cut from our budget. However, if cuts have to be made in the PD, I think the middle school SRO’s is ok to cut. Has anyone ever visited a middle school and seen the SRO’s in “action”. Back in the day guidance counselors and principals handled “misfit middle schoolers”. There’s no reason that can’t happen again. I agree with Emma on this one. I’d much rather see the SRO from Stonewall Middle out on the beat in WestGate/Sudley area.
Hey, John! I noticed the new jazzy dias. I wonder how much that unneccessary improvement cost we the tax payers. I don’t think now is the time to be remodeling the county dias. Now, the sound system did need to be replaced. It had gotten almost impossible to hear with all of the crackling, etc. Then we do have the problem of those that do NOT turn their phones/blackberries off during meeting, and would set the sound system into buzz mode because of the interference of the devices.
The election is next year. The vote to cut Public Safety was unanimous. That leaves them all in a bad position come election time when they are all looking for that endorsement from the Fire Department and Police Deparment and their respective associations.
Further, many of the 1,300 employees that are in Public Safety do live in the county and last I checked even though they are employees they are allowed to vote.
This post should be saved for next October and brought back up. Particularly now that the video of the vote has been captured.
I know this site loves to bash the Board of Supervisors, but I just looked at the article and the very first line says, “Starting next fall, middle schools in Prince William County will no longer be assigned school resource officers thanks to more cuts in state funding.”
In other words, the state has cut funding to local governments for police and therefore the Board had to make corresponding cuts to their local police department. I suppose they could have used other county funds to replace those state cuts, but where is the criticism of the governor and the delegates and senators on this one? Didn’t the state brag about a surplus recently? Then why are they cutting local funding?
I doubt very seriously if most people would notice the school resource officer unless he was taking up the last parking place. They work behind the scenes with students, teachers, principals, parents, bus drivers. They go in to neighborhoods, put out brushfires, talk to parents. They are a wonderful liaison between home and school.
Middle school is where it all starts–whether a kid is going to be a toad or a knight in shining armour. Prevention is far easier to prevent at this age by the intervention of a school resource officer. By high school, all too often its clean up rather than prevention.
Prevention is always cheaper than the cure.
Food for thought, we also say good things about supervisors when they do the right thing.
Yes, the state did brag about extra money. We sure aren’t getting any of it.
The BOCS also knew that the public safety money was being cut. They have know for quite some time. They didn’t prepare and they didn’t do anything about adjusting their budget to take care of it.
There is a lot of spare money floating about in the county. How about the almost $800,000 used for supervisor staff raises? Did the rest of the county get a raise? How about the $700,000 used to prop up the War Museum? Was that an essential need? Do we need that rather than police officers? Are we going to shoot crooks with ancient tanks?
F 4F is right in that it is all about choices. We also have thrown state elected officials under the bus. I am running out of energy pointing out the state funny money discrepancies. For example, the state has deferred several BILLION dollars in VRS payments which violates the State Constitution. Their balanced budget is built on funny money and is an out and out lie.
This is exhausting…..
FFT – I think it’s more about how the locals use state funding – the provisions they make for large increases that can’t possibly sustain themselves….. like stimulus funding. Police funding from the state almost doubled or close to it during this decade…. I would not count on that continuing with my home budget so why would the BOCS and County officials count on something like that lasting and then being surprised?
I don’t think that’s good planning – not to discount what you say. County officials are to do the planning. Looking at the chart yesterday from the budget office this year appears to be an all time high and it’s just the beginning of the state’s budget cycle.
Food for Thought makes a good point (an one I am all too well aware of), yes MH you make several good points as well as this is not a simple cause and effect issue given the number of revenue sources available to the county, its more a matter of the BOCS making proper decisions regarding niceties v. necessities.
Back to Food’s point, if you think those cuts made by the Governor, delegates and senators are an issue, just wait until this year’s GA session. The impact of the M@T tax cuts on some localities has been elsewhere, the real threat to local government lies in the push to eliminate the BPOL tax. Some legislators (Keam, Fredericksburg) are making it the principal plank in their agendas. It makes for wonderful theatrics in Richmond as the delegate can claim they are cutting taxes while suffering no reduction in state funding that they have the power to appropriate and allocate. Its more smoke and mirrors from both sides of the aisle in the GA and would have a dramatic impact on local jurisictions funding, given that it comprises roughly 10-15% of their revenue streams (generally higher percentages for towns than counties). [XXXX], I know you’re probably monitoring/snooping around so before you start on the evils of BPOL, understand that generally as regards retail it is set at 10 cents on the hundred or one tenth of one percent. Most impacted companies spend more annually on the disinfectant cakes in the bathroom urinals. Moreover, those being charged BPOL do benefit from it as some percentage of those funds go to Public Safety services that businesses on average make more use of than residential units, think of the number of average visits by the PD to the average residential unit v. the number of times they have to go to Target, etc. to handle shoplifters.
[Ed. note: I removed the name used. Truthfully, I don’t know the identity of Food for Thought. I honestly don’t care. I certainly don’t know if the name used was correct or not. Anyone publishing here has the right to use a moniker and to not have that his or her real name exposed. Sorry I didnt catch this earlier. Mom–snarl! I have bent over backwards to protect your moniker and will continue to do so.]
Emma – the number of graduates fromt the recruit program are pretty low – it used to be about 30+. They are replacing people that left – that’s not an increase in officers That’s what was cut yesterday – people who left that now can’t be replaced.
I don’t disagree with you Moon. I was just pointing out that the cut was made necessary by the state cut. When I first read the post it gave me the impression that it was a Board initiated cut. Then I read the story that was linked and I learned that it was, in fact, due to the state. I read back through your post and you did, in fact, allude to the fact that it was a state cut (albeit in the last paragraph). I must have missed that the first time.
Anyway, sorry if I am adding to your “exhuastion.” I’m sure it’s hard work running a blog and trying to keep tabs on all the polticians (let alone have to respond to those of us that read your blog and comment from time to time).
Again, I will state that how any revenue is accepted, used and planned is the local responsibility. The County did cover this once in the past there is nothing stopping them from doing that again.
Moon said this is becoming exhausting. Indeed it is. Our County Government has become a banana republic. Campaign finance is regarded by some as a game to see what they can get away with. Our budget is regarded as a cookie jar of resources to pay off those supporters and contributors without regard to the needs of the community or fiscal responsibility.
Senior County management is now nothing but a collection of politically subservient hacks who are largely incompetent but serve the special interests and their bought Supervisors well. Don’t get me wrong – the vast majority of County employees including the various departments, schools, police, emergency services and others are fine people working hard to serve our community. If we were to rid ourselves of about a dozen or so at the top (primarily in Executive Management, Planning Office, HR, and Public Works) and replace them with capable public servants of integrity we would have one of the best County governments in the nation.
Some of our Supervisors are excellent public servants who just need to stand up to the bullies and thieves more often. I’m thinking in particular of Supervisors Stirrup, May and Principi voting against Avendale despite the enormous pressure Stewart and his developer pals created with those shameful theatrics featuring the Gainesville Grizzlies. There are other examples.
The BOCS election in November 2011 can’t come soon enough.
F4F, you aren’t causing the exhaustion, the BOCS and State are. Sorry, I didn’t mean to unload on your comment. I just wish they would….well….do right in the first place. You triggered something that was already there.
Emma, going back to your question….the people you asked about replaced those who left. That wasn’t adding a new position.
The goal of Public Safety is to be prepared. How prepared do we want to be in PWC? From where I sit we are now eight officers less prepared.
When there was a gunman at NOVA, everyone responded regardless of “assignment”. That kind of event happened here twice fairly recently. Response to any other large problem is not limited by assignment. Can we honestly say we can do with 8 fewer uniformed police officers when we have missing children, gunmen, airport issues, train derailments, unpredictable emergencies? I don’t think so.
I think discretionary funds should go before public safety issues.
Did we ever get the level of fire safety up to what was promised in the wake of Kyle Wilson’s death?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/09/AR2008020901323.html
Promises were made. Have those changes been made yet? I don’t think so.
I am a retired middle school teacher. I am horrified that the program placing police personnel in middle schools is to be dropped. These officers are like beat cops on steroids as far as their worth to the community is concerned. They are able to exert authority in both the school and the community and are perceived by students to have far greater clout than any school employee could ever have–simply because they ARE the police. They get to know the kids and parents and know how to head off many situations which would otherwise escalate into truly serious matters. They have a handle on gang problems and budding drug problems. Middle school is the place to stop these things when they are “wannabe” and relatively minor. I could go on and on. Surely there is some other answer to budget miseries besides getting rid of a program that helps to significantly diminish the need for police action for years to come.
@I. Hedrick
But IH, look on the bright side. You and all other PWC taxpayers have paid over $721 thousand with the meter still running to buy Corey Stewart’s promise of being able to have your picture made sitting on an old tank by 2014. Why are you worrying yourself with really trivial things such as the safety of our kids at school?
NTK, the tank farm is a ruse, they just wanted to rezone the property so they could build the “John Jenkins Memorial Chicken Ranch”.
Mom – We need to start a contest for naming exhibits at the Wartime Museum. How about the “Stewart 2011 Waterloo Memorial,” or the “John Jenkins Hot Air Balloon Ride?”
That might scare the kids too much. There won’t be any more police in the schools to control kids who act out from becoming warped by such things.
Pinko, schools are gun free zones. How does a kid have a gun in that zone? The law stopped him, right?
The last comment chills my bones.. Having an agent of the state with arrest authority standing over a meeting between a child, the school and parents.. Wow. Statism. Before you know it we’ll have the government telling us what to think and what to buy……..
Too soon?
Hear from solid sources that the BOCS want $120k next year for a newsletter. It’s already in the funding plan.
@Need to Know Don’t get me started. I’m tired of all of the sacred cows, including the Center for the Arts that my tax dollars just HAD to fund, because THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!! I love the arts as much as anyone else, but private interests can fund the arts, especially in times of budget cuts. Let’s apply a little Maslow’s hierarchy to what we should be funding–essentials first, arts and crafts later.
I don’t mean to diverge, but I was an early and vocal opponent of the City helping to fund the arts center. How many more ways do my tax dollars have to be used to aggrandize the Manassas Dynastic Trio of the Hyltons, Parrishes and Colgans? Enough already.
The last graduation class of the PWC police Academy were replacements for retirements, officers leaving etc. They were not additional officers to the department.
All School Resource Officers, aside from any work they do AT the school, prevent patrol officers from having to respond TO the school. That will end when they leave. Now, those of you who have Middle Schools in your beat areas may find your officer(s) tied up for hours (yes, juveniles take hours upon hours to deal with in police work) instead of being able to respond to your call or patrol your neighborhood. Because the Schools will call still call the police and the road officers will have to respond. So you do have a lot less service coming your way.
Ever notice that the first thing mentioned for cuts is always safety related? Anywhere? I see this in reports from all across the country. Then, people start arguing about the funding. They are then distracted by the fact that every government has people that are supposed to prioritize. And those people didn’t because they know that cutting law enforcement or fire safety is the best way to get a sympathy reaction.
I don’t know anything about the local politics in PWC, but, like elsewhere, I bet that a WHOLE LOT OF ADMINISTRATION could be cut………..
I totally empathize with your point and agree with your premise about prevention.
Thanks for sharing Lucky Duck, excellent points!!!!!!!!
Great comments here, especially from the experts who provided us with much needed information. Public safety should be the first of the sacred cows. It is the obligaton of goveernment to protect its citizens.
Cargo, I don’t share your doom and gloom. I hope you are wrong. We have always been able to right ourselves as a nation.
NTK, I take it you’re not a vet. That museum has been in the works for years. The land for it was donated by the Hilton family. Since you ask, how much money does the county spend supporting individuals who shouldn’t even be here? I guess that’s money well spent! At least the museum will be around, and not take off to some other county leaving an empty and unpaid house behind.
@Second-Alamo
SA – my veteran status is not relevant here. Please read the other thread about the Wartime Museum and this “donation.”
@marinm
Marinm, school shootings, bomb threats and lockdowns are rampant in the nation’s schools. We’ve had some incidents in the county. Do you think just because guns aren’t allowed in school that we don’t have them there? Cell phones aren’t allowed, either, but they are constantly found in lockers or in the hands of students. Bulling is not allowed either, but it happens all the time. The point is that kids (and adults) who are bent on breaking the rules will do so if they can.
I’m not trying to be a jerk, but I am wondering if you have had kids in middle school lately. Middle school has become the new high school in many ways. I swear, it seems the HS kids are better behaved. Maybe it’s that kids are growing up faster or are more streetwise or play violent video games. I don’t know, but I can tell you as the parent of two middle schoolers that it’s a mess and that most teachers and admin will tell you it’s probably the toughest age group to deal with.
Furthermore, we should not have to make the decision of having a cop outside or inside a school. Both are needed.
Finally, I am not sure to what extent cops are involved in meetings with admin, but I can tell you that bullies get a talking to from cops at the very least. Kids need a deterrent before they end up in juvie, and when kids spend most of their time in school, then school is where the cops are needed to address issues.
As to the museum issue, I would prefer the BOCS discussion take place as a separate one. Making fun of commemorating vets by applying names of BOCS members is not respectful, IMO. I neither advocate war, nor am I the queen of respect when it comes to the BOCS, but I strongly advocate respect when it comes to those who put their lives on the line for us. Merging the name of a bureaucrat with a commemoration of those in the armed forces is insulting.
Cutting adminsitrative support should be considered first (along with newsletters) care must be taken not to weaken infrastructure that supports key agencies. Therefore, it’s the upper management levels of adminsitrative support usually where there is the most redundancy that should be cut. That is very difficult to get to especially when the recommendations come from those that should be considered.
How many people recommend themselves out of a job? there is some reality here, even in Prince William County.
@Juturna
This is why we need a new BOCS that will cut the fat from senior management, rather than build bloated bureaucracies that will support them politically as has been happening in Prince William County.
We need a BOCS Chair who has no other political ambitions and will wield the ax with no concern for any consequences for their their political career.
How many days until the 2011 election?
Pinko,
No doubt. That’s why I was making fun of gun free zones. You know and I know that those that want to violate the law will just ignore it and carry within that ‘zone’. But, for whatever reason we’ll arrest law abiding people that carry into those zones for the crime of crossing a sidewalk or some other arbitrary barrier.
We have to make those decisions as a society and with respect to government. Government can only afford what we’re willing to fund for it. So, if you’re willing to cut a senior program or a welfare program to fund SRO’s…maybe that’s something on the table but inevitably everyone is a priority and needs funding at 105%.. So, sometimes even ‘good’ programs are cut. It happens.
I took issue with how you phrased the involvement of police in watching over a meeting between the school, a parent and a child. It smacks of an oppressive government controlling subjects (not citizens). Maybe you meant something else but it came off as a “let’s put the fear of government and authority in him”. Yuck.
While I have no issue with some kids being scared straight the initial statement didn’t come off as such.
Police and fire are not sacred cows to me. Nor is any welfare program. Everything is negotiable and nothing should be untouchable.
Good luck finding that person, NTK.
Too long until the next election. The internal auditor is doing nothing to examine these issues. His “reports” are out on the website. They read like a sixth grade report on “how to avoid brushing my teeth by spending all this time fooling my parents”. Zero accountability. Wasteful processes that when brought forward can’t be resolved due to lack of useful staff, poor interpretation and application of regulations and policies. Nothing proactive, all control, control control…..how OIT problem happened. No synergy among departments or between user and support departments (!)…..human resources is a disaster…………so the only thing to do to is to cut Cops
Emma and others…… not all VA jurisdictions that received reductions in state support for public safety cut public safety. They took it from other areas in their county budget. So, let’s not oversimplify the situation by blaming the state – the locals are to manage state revenue. That’s what they are paid to do. Manage and be strategic. That’s the hard part.
A very strong case can be made for having law enforcement officers on specific beats such as those for school resource officers. In my opinion, nothing gives a police officer a better leg up on crime and trouble than having an intimate knowledge of his beat, something not always available to a road patrol officer. For a number of years, our community had a Community Policing Officer (CPO) specifically assigned to this and nearby neighborhoods. He knew the people, was aware of the potential troublespots and troublemakers, had a sure knowledge of the streets and general layout of the communities, and knew where the miscreants usually went to escape or hide. He was here and visible. You knew him and you knew the way he operated. You also learned from him the do’s and don’t’s of the law and local law enforcement. One minute the CPO was tossing a football to the local kids and the next he was seeking out a gangbanger to be put into cuffs. He was the first one called by Neighborhood Watch when a police presence was needed or an important report had to be made. He was always missed during his off-duty hours.
Because of budget problems, we lost our CPO recently, necessitating double coverage by the CPO on an adjacent and very busy beat. That means that, when NW calls for police assistance, it is usually a road patrol which responds. This is not a criticism of any kind. Our road patrol officers are first class. However, there is a big difference between the speed and depth of NW consultations with the CPO and those with a road patrol officer who will likely not have the same depth of community knowledge. I think the same applies to school resource officers. Mrs. W also tells me how much of a psychological difference it makes for both faculty and students to know that there is a law enforcement professional on site. I am not from PWC, but I would certainly urge your supervisors to make every effort not to lose that in your schools, especially in the more difficult school settings. I think your retired teacher is spot on. Those middle school and high school resource officers can be instrumental in cutting trouble off at the pass before it gets out of hand. Without them, the burden falls even more heavily on the road patrol officers in the streets.
Thanks Wolverine, I totally agree and with you. Thanks for stating what you lose when you loose that personal police touch from your neighborhood or school.
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.