Well, that didn’t take long. I try to change the top thread once it gets to 100 comments. Easier to manage.
We have quite a conversation going on about money…more specifically, retirement money. There seem to be no easy answers.
Continue on……
199 Thoughts to “Open Thread Sunday, October 17”
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- Blue Virginia
- Citizen Tom
- Counts of Monte Cristo. The
- Derecho, The
- Dixie Pig, The
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- New Dominion Project
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- The Jeffersoniad
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- You, Me and the Lamp Post
It’s a beautiful Sunday morning out here in western PWC.
In today’s WaPo, Pulitzer Prize winning historian David Oshinsky reviews WaPo columnist Dana Milbank’s new book, “Tears of a Clown: Glenn Beck and the Tea Bagging of America.” http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/15/AR2010101503609.html
In the prior Open Thread I mentioned Joe McCarthy as an example of a kook that was a popular Pied Piper of fear and hate for a while. Professor Oshinsky cites McCarthy as a basis of comparison to Beck. He notes:
“Both men created a highly suspect back story to their early lives — McCarthy as a bogus war hero, Beck with disputed tales of pain and redemption. Both men mastered the art of conspiracy, both learned that bad publicity is far better than no publicity, and both produced the perfect enemy for their times: the shadowy liberal elites who “run” the government, the corporations and the media.”
If what’s past is prologue, the fact that 50 years ago America eventually realized McCarthy was a huckster gives hope for the future.
@Moe,
Thanks for that link. Excellent.
Beck should be watched if for no other reason than to see which way the lemmings are headed.
Joe McCarthy made the claim that communists and their sympathizers had infiltrated the highest levels of the american government and other venues of public influence. that claim turned out to be correct, with much corroborating evidence brought to light after the fall of the iron curtain and the opening of soviet archives
and what exactly is beck’s disputed tale of pain and redemtion? he was a bum and a raging alcoholic, found jesus or the book of mormon or whatever, and exploded onto the national scene as a political commentator with millions of avid listeners/viewers. he doesn’t have the power to raise my taxes, bankrupt the country with multi-trillion dollar deficits, or just overall trash america with liberal guilt. there is a magical device called the remote control, whereby i can deplete my remaining brain cells and watch rachel madcow or keith overbite countdown to no ratings
Must not be many remaining cells if you see Rachel Maddow being anything like Keith Olbermann. One is composed and gentle. The other is a major blowhard given to extreme attacks of exaggeration and hyperbole.
Beck has become like a cult leader. He manipulates the truth in a way that is vile.
As for being a bum, I must have missed that part. I believe he was a semi successful DJ with alcohol problems, not unlike millions of other Americans. I believe he grew up Catholic so he and Jesus were not strangers. He and Joseph ,Smith probably didn’t know each other well, however. Maybe he wanted his God to have a wife. Who knows.
I don’t dispute for a minute that communism was a legitimate concern in the 1950’s just as dysfunctional government is a legitimate concern today. But McCarthy pushed that legitimate concern to illegitimate extremes. Many recall the famous commentary by Edward E. Murrow:
“We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. We must remember always that accusation is not proof and that conviction depends upon evidence and due process of law. We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason, if we dig deep in our history and our doctrine, and remember that we are not descended from fearful men.”
The excesses of McCarthyism hurt a lot people. It led to the federal government doing things – loyalty oaths, the FBI keeping files on law-abiding citizens, sham congressional investigations, people blacklisted and unable to work – that I think are the sort of “big brother” type stuff that cause the Glenn Becks of today to well up with tears (recognizing that it doesn’t take much to make Beck go moist).
The term “McCarthyism” isn’t used as complement. The fact that there was a kernel of truth at its core doesn’t negate that its excesses were corrupt. President Truman described it best: “It is the rise to power of the demagogue who lives on untruth; it is the spreading of fear and the destruction of faith in every level of society.” To me, that sounds an awful lot like what far right extremists are doing today. The “Insane Clown Posse” used to be the name of a musical group; now its a description of the militant far right candidates running for public office.
Agreed, Moe. He had far too much power and between him and J. Edgar Hoover, it is no wonder that people questioned the United states govt. There are huge lists of people who were blackballed. One that particularly offends me, to this day, is folk singer Pete Seeger. State Dept workers also were in the hot seat. McCarthy was UN American.
Communism was a danger. Specifically, Soviet Russia was a danger. But spying on and blackballing Americans and causing people to lose their jobs and their families to be shunned was also a danger.
Speaking of the foreclosure mess, I threw up a post over at TC because it was just too long for the comments section here: http://www.tooconservative.com/?p=7723
I’d be very interested on thoughts from people whom have legal backgrounds as to what the remedy might be here.
Let’s see how Mr. Milbank does against Obama’s Wars, Trickle Up Poverty, The Roots of Obama’s Rage, and The Coming Economic Armageddon.
All while Slowpoke holds out for Glenn Beck rescuing him? PUH-leeze
I am sitting here thinking about some things I have read on this blog this week and frankly, I am just disgusted. I just rewatched Escape from Sobibor. I am astounded that anyone could question why someone would might possibly be offended over a candidate who used to dress up as Nazi SS on the weekends.
I find it amazing that educated people aren’t horribly offended that some smug, arrogant blowhard like Bill O’Reilly can tell someone else to be quiet and listen to him so they will learn something. In a civilized world, that kind of behavior is unacceptable. However, he is coming out as the fair haired child on all the conservative talk shows. He should have had his mic cut long before he got to the mosque issue. I take offense that he would tell any adult that. I especially take offense that he would tell a woman that. Too many years. He should know better.
If this kind of thinking is running along party lines, I might have to join the Democrats, much as it would pain me.
Slow – If the basis a man or woman like you uses to judge merit is popularity then the subversive Charles Dickens is the most brilliant author of all times (“A Tale of Two Cities” is the all-time best seller at more than 200M copies) and the decadent “Harry Potter” series (the most popular books among the detainees at Gitmo, I’d note) is the most insightful collection ever published (almost a half-billion copies sold). On the current NYT best seller list, Jon Stewart is #2, five spots ahead of Billo’s “Pinhead” book if that tells you anything.
@Morris Davis
Obama is proof enough for anyone that popularity and merit have zero to do with each other.
@Moon-howler
Except that he fits right in with the two that left. They do the same thing on their show. Behar is worse.
As for party lines, ol’ Bill is a PROUD independent. And he was right. Muslims DID commit the 9/11 atrocity.
From the other open thread about foreclosures:
“Where are Lafayette and Cargo to comment on this?
The banks need a national butt whupping. Who was it that wanted to protect those blokes last summer?”
I’ve got about 10 threads that I’m collating into a post at UCV about banks, MERS, assignments, bundling, etc. I’m attempting to link it all together. Now I have to add more about Fannie and Freddie. More keeps coming to light faster than I can assimilate it.
Best I can tell…..buy gold, guns, and food.
Well then…. I just read Cato’s post at http://www.tooconservative.com/?p=7723.
I think I’ll save my self hours of work and just direct everybody there. He puts it SOOOOO much better than I could.
As a former title examiner, I always put the actual note holder in my search. EVERY SINGLE MORTGAGE listed MERS as the assignee. We did not put that as the note holder, but listed it as assignee. Other title companies listed them as the noteholder……….
In the old days, before MERS, each mortgage had to be assigned to whomever purchased it through documents recorded in the public records. Now, not all of them get recorded or are even used. MERS allowed quick assignment electronically. The problem is that each state may have different requirements and laws to do that.
Slow — Sometimes there is a direct correlation between the level of popularity and ultimate merit. Bush lost the popular vote to Gore by more than a half-million votes and then went on to be a meritless President. C-Span conducted a poll last year of 65 presidential historians who ranked the Presidents and Bush was 7th from the bottom on the overall list just ahead of Millard Fillmore and two spots behind Herbert Hoover (maybe there is some correlation between the Hoover Days and the Bush Bust). http://www.c-span.org/PresidentialSurvey/Overall-Ranking.aspx
@Morris Davis
There are also recent polls that show the country would take Bush back in a heartbeat over Obama. Obama is just Jimmy Carter II, and you know how he’s looking. We’re still too close to Bush’s terms to look at it from a historical perspective (but that wouldn’t stop an academic from doing it, though). I doubt he’ll be looked upon as badly as he is today. But today, people would already take him back over if it meant getting out of the Obama bust.
He has managed to monetize virtually everything that comes out of his mouth. Forbes April 2010
Here is a list of advertisers that have either pulled ads from or taken proactive measures to ensure that their ads do not appear on the Glenn Beck Program in the United States, the U.K., or both – it’s pretty amazing…..
• Aegon (added 9/14/09)
• Airmiles.co.uk (added 10/20/09)
• Allergan (added 8/17/09)
• Allstate Insurance (added 2/16/10) (statement)
• Ally Bank/GMAC Financial Services (added 8/17/09)
• Ancestry.com (added 8/24/09) (statement)
• Anheuser-Busch (added 2/16/10) (statement)
• Apple (report) [see note 6]
• Applebee’s (added 8/27/09)
• Ashley Furniture (added 8/28/09)
• AT&T (added 8/24/09)
• Bank of America (added 8/25/09)
• Bell & Howell (added 8/27/09)
• Best Buy (added 8/17/09)
• Best Western (added 2/5/10) (statement)
• BMW (added 4/1/10) (statement)
• British Airways (added 12/14/09)
• Broadview Security (added 8/17/09)
• Cadillac (added 5/8/10) (statement)
• Campbell’s Soup Co. (added 8/24/09)
• Capital One (added 9/2/09)
• Celsius (added 2/16/10) (statement)
• Citrix Online/GoToMyPC (added 10/6/09)
• Clorox (added 8/23/09)
• Coca-Cola (added 6/24/10) (statement)
• CVS (added 8/17/09)
• Dannon Co. (added 9/2/09)
• Discover (added 9/2/09)
• DITECH (added 8/24/09)
• EggLands Best (added 9/21/09)
• Elations Co. (added 8/24/09)
• Equifax (added 10/6/09)
• Farmers Insurance Group
• GEICO
• General Mills (added 8/27/09)
• GlaxoSmithKline (added 1/12/10) (statement)
• Healthy Choice (owned by CongAgra)
• History Channel (added 11/11/09)
• Hoffman La Roche (maker of Boniva) (added 10/6/09)
• Holiday Inn (added 5/12/10) (statement)
• Honda (added 1/31/10) (statement)
• Idaho Potato Commission (added 2/16/10) (statement)
• Infiniti (added 9/2/09)
• Intersections Inc. (added 2/16/10)
• ING DIRECT (added 01/07/09) (statement)
• Jack Daniels (Updated 12/28/09) [see note 4]
• Johnson & Johnson (added 8/24/09)
• Kaplan Tutoring (added 7/8/10) (statement)
• KFC (UK) (a Yum Brands! subsidiary) (statement) (added 7/12/10)
• KRAFT Foods (added 8/20/09) (read statement here)
• KRAFT Foods (UK) (added 11/13/09)
• Lawyers.com (owned by LexisNexis)
• Le Cordon Bleu Culinary School (added 2/16/10) (statement)
• Lowe’s (added 8/24/09)
• Mars (maker of Snickers, M&Ms, Pedigree, etc..) (added 10/20/09) (read statement here)
• Marriott International (added 2/16/10) (statement)
• Men’s Wearhouse
• Mercedes-Benz (added 9/2/09)
• MetLife Bank (added 8/5/10) (statement)
• Metropolitan Talent Management (added 10/6/09) [see note 3]
• Nestle (added 05/03/10) (statement)
• Polaroid (added 10/2/10) (statement)
• Premier Foods (UK) (added 11/18/09)
• Premier Inn (UK) (added 12/20/09)
• Procter & Gamble
• Progressive Insurance
• Radio Shack
• Sargento Cheese
• Sears (added 5/18/10) (statement)
• Sprint (added 8/23/09)
• StarKist (tuna) (added 2/8/10) (statement)
• State Farm Insurance
• Subaru (added 10/6/09)
• Sylvan Learning (added 2/20/10) (statement)
• Tesco (added 12/19/09)
• Toyota-Lexus USA (added 10/6/09) / Toyota (GB) (added 2/3/10) (statement)
• Travelers Insurance (added 8/27/09)
• Travelocity
• TurboTax (added 3/10/10) (statement)
• UPS (added 8/23/09)
• United States Postal Service (added 9/14/09)
• US Fidelis (added 2/16/10) (statement)
• Verizon Wireless (added 8/21/09)
• Virgin Atlantic (added 01/08/10)
• Vonage (added 8/24/09)
• Volkswagen (added 2/16/10)
• Walmart (added 8/17/09)
• Weight Watchers (added 2/20/10) (statement)
• Western Union (added 2/16/10)
Cargo, maybe you could open a new business and just do title searches for all the people who want their mortgage not to be on the up and up? How much will it cost for you to check on mine?
@Slowpoke Rodriguez
What people??? Those same people who denied they voted for Bush a second time.
This is beginning to sound like a bunch of good ole boys sitting around a bar shooting the you know what.
I would do the same thing today as I did elction day 2008. No way would I vote the McCain/PALIN ticket.
@Moon-howler
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/surveys/2009_Archives/PPP_Release_National_1209.pdf
Rasmussen did another. I can’t find the link to it right now, but it’s out there. Bush doesn’t quite beat Obama, but that’s how bad people want out of the nightmare that is the Obama administration. Wait a couple weeks, you’ll see what I’m talking about.
@Juturna
That looks like the list of donors to La Raza! Doesn’t it just grind your gears how high Beck’s ratings are, in spite of all these companies pulling sponsorship? 🙂
Not really. I dont’ see where I conveyed my opinopm about Beck – But since you have decided what I must be thinking I will say that I’m usually impressed he was able to overcome some tough hurdles in life. Don’t be so quick to assume – it’s it bad manners.
I’m not sure that many of these companies donate money to La Raza. Marriott/Ancestry.com -both Mormon owned, Idaho Potato Commission? Virgin Airlines? What is your source? Mine is Forbes. Or was that just another flippant reaction without thought assuming you ‘knew’ what I was thinking?
I did some further checking and the majority of the sponsors on that list are more inclined to donate to Republican candidates than Democratic candidates. So if Republican candidates are generally aligned with LaRaza, that is really news to me.
I simply found it interesting that they would be major FOX News sponsors but have asked to not have their spots during Beck’s show.
So by pointing out the facts I was “dressed down” just like The View or some FOX programs. I see no difference between CNN, FOX, MSNBC or The View any more. Just a bunch of angry people shouting.
Bottom line, everyone appears angry.
Morris, you take old Joe McCarthy to task for unfairly labelling other people — and I will not argue that point. But then you do sort of the same thing in pushing your own argument. “Insane Clown Posse”? Really?
@Juturna
The LaRaza thing was a joke.
And hey, folks, I don’t care about Glenn Beck. I’m not defending him. He doesn’t need me to defend him. You want a good book story? I hear “Mitt-for-Brains” Romney asked people who wanted to have him come speak to buy copies of his book in lieu of direct payment.
The Mars family was always known for their lavish support of ultra-liberal causes (I think pumping millions of dollars into the lobbying effort to repeal the “death tax” was just a ruse to make them look like diehard conservatives) and Lord knows those wild-eyed left-leaning elites down in Lynchburg, Tennessee, where they make Jack Daniels (their official town website may claim it’s a place of “small town values and perfect Americana living” that has remained dry (they make Jack, but you can’t buy it or drink it in Lynchburg), but their actions speaking louder than words) can’t be trusted. How dare they bale out on Brother Glenn.
No one is saying that Beck isn’t popular. I don’t even hate him. He is dangerous and I believe the comparison to Father Coughlin was sort of a ying yang experience. Look at Billy Graham, Rush Limbaugh, all sorts of people who have minions. There’s that word again.
Actually look at popular evangelical beliefs about the anti-christ.
Beck had better be careful once Murdoch and crew have gotten what they want from him. He will be ditched. He is actually a pathetic figure and he, too, is being used. I think he might even believe the garbage that he spews.
Rasmussen is generally know to be a Republican pollster.
Even I know how to sway a poll. Its not that complicated to set up.
@Slowpoke Rodriguez
I will remember to be less literal. Not liberal, literal 🙂
On ABC this morning Meagan McCain said Christine O’Donnell is a “nut job,” which is similar to what Karl Rove said before she won the party’s nomination. On the same show Matt Dowd, chief strategist for the Bush-Cheney campaign, said of those like O’Donnell, Paul, and Angle, “many of those candidates are either nuts or somewhat off or not competent.” http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/10/mccain-odonnell-nutjob/ Insane clowns was my term and nut jobs was the term leading Republicans used. I’m happy to change and use the Republican term if nut job is less disturbing than insane clowns.
I agree 100% Polls are like statistics. You can make them say whatever you like. There are lies, damn lies, and statistics. We can add polls to that, too!
Morris, and you give me Meagan McCain, Karl Rove, and Matt Dowd as examples of Republican political speak? Can’t stand any of them and never could. Try some other examples. Makes be laugh out loud whenever someone in the other camp uses a Bush-Cheney minion as a purported icon of truth and wisdom. That’s sort of like saying George III is a tyrannical bastard but Lord North opinions are worth buying into.
Meghan McCain…..nice rack……that’s about it.
I’m not enamored with Rove, McCain, or Dowd, but I give them credit for having the courage of their convictions, not hiding from their opinions, and putting their credibility on the line where even the men or women or boys or girls that hide behind androgynous aliases can take free shots while having no skin in the game. Exercising the right to choose secrecy is fine, but in my view there is an inverse correlation between cowardice and credibility.
Aw, Morris, I’m so sorry to disappoint you with my cowardice.
@Slowpoke Rodriguez
No. This is NOT a locker room. Keep those thoughts to yourself.
Meghan McCain hasn’t been around that long to hate. She is only 26.
Secondly, anyone who wants to use an alias on this blog is more than welcome to do so. I would prefer no fake emails. Occassionally I need to contact people. There are many reasons to do so–job, nut jobs on the internet, vengeful people…all are valid reasons.
totally off topic…just saw my 95 year old gma this weekend at her house. She confessed that after her most recent bout of bronchitisis, she’s NOW “beginning to feel [her] age”, yet she ranted on about the tea party, Hurt, “crazy Cuchenelli” (sp) etc. And I decided that when I’m 95, I too hope to be living on my own, reading the newspaper every day, doing the crosswords to completion, watching the news, and still be able to formulate an opinion of and discuss current events with others.
McNabb sells play action like no ones business. Wow.
That is quite an accomplishment. Good for her. Does she live around here, DB?
Cato, will you email me at [email protected] please?
I have a personal message for you from someone. It appears your email that I have might not be real.
I did
I hope I’m as spry as that grandmother when I hit 95!
Fall is my favorite season. Anyone else like it that much?
Bob Pugh will have Jim Bacon of Bacon’s Rebellion on this morning at 10 am.
Finance finance finance.
http://baconsrebellion.com/oldsite/Wonks_Jim_Bacon.php
Show page for Bob Pugh.
http://www.voiceamerica.com/voiceamerica/vshow.aspx?sid=1802
pinko, yes, it is my favorite season also. Always has been. My least favorite is summer.
Thanks for the plug Moon! Jim and I will discuss his new book, “Boomergeddon” about the mounting debt, its implications for our economy, and what retirees and those who ever want to retire should do. I’ve got an excerpt from the book and a brief video by Jim on my web site:
http://www.insightwealth.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=19&Itemid=19
If anyone wants to listen and misses the live show at 10:00 today, the recording and a free MP3 download will be posted in a few hours.
@Moon-howler
I am not fond of summer unless I am swimming or sunbathing. Otherwise, it’s too damn hot for anything and the AC runs day and night. I love being able to open the windows and get finally fresh air!
I’m with you Pinko. I spend all summer checking the temperature in International Fall, MN and being jealous!
@Posting as Pinko
Can’t tell you exactly why, but somewhere in my late 30s, Fall became my favorite season. There is just something about it that I can’t completely put my finger on. Maybe it’s a bunch of things. The smells, the coming holidays, the end of the brutal heat, the lawns coming back to life, the colors….it’s just a neat time of year.
Might sound corny, but I was walking into Wegman’s yesterday with my 3-year old son holding my hand and we watched the stock guys putting out pumpkins and I caught a whiff of the cinnamon brooms outside and I got a nice shot of “I love Fall”.
Colors and smells. I can still smell burning leaves from childhood.
Not corny at all, Slow. You are more than late 30’s?
Cinnamon Brooms? I want one!!!