From Fox Channel 5:
Kim Skokan, co-owner of KK’s Temptations and Steve Thomas, a Manassas resident who opposes the store, joined the FOX 5 News at 10 to debate this sex shop battle.
The debate has been ongoing for about a month. Tonight one of the leaders against KK Temptations, Manassas City resident Steve Thomas, squared off against co-owner Kim Skokan. Evaluate the debate for yourself. Was there a clear winner or did both ‘sides’ make their point?
As most people know, Moonhowlings has been supportive of KK’s Temptations. I was glad to see Mr. Thomas narrow his objections to the store to being only against adult videos rather than trying to condemn the entire shop. Having a specific objection makes a lot more sense than some of the other people I have talked to and those I heard making preposterous statements. Mr. Thomas also resisted calling their store a ‘porn shop.’
However, tomorrow KK”s Temptations opens officially. Stop by and tell the ladies hello.
UPDATE: The Ribbon Cutting Ceremony was held this morning. It is my understanding that none of the Manassas Council attended. Shame on them.
The Red Hat Society ladies were cute. Beth Parker sure pointed out the hypocrisy about the Candy Factory. Kiddie plays and Last of the Red Hot Lovers. Too funny.
I am totally sick of hearing the kid card dropped. What a bunch of bull crap. It has nothing to do with it. The woman who spoke up and said something to the effect that the husbands would all want the wives to do things they didn’t want to do spoke volumes. That’s what’s behind all of this. Some of the good women of Manassas don’t want to be asked to ……nahhhh Moon Howler. Don’t go there. It was obvious.
Maybe some of the good women just need to say no if something is suggested in the marital bedroom that they don’t want to do. Surely these ‘weaker vessels’ have heard of NO and realize that they aren’t owned by their husbands? Tell me it isn’t this basic.
LMAO!!!!!! The same Steve Thomas at : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6c3jX_QsZA
What better way to send them back with LOVE 😉
Much LOVE. Thanks for the link, Red Dawn.
It sounds like a few of our local politicians have tried to make this subject THE issue of the year.
Ms. Kim did not sound like she was going to be backing down.
Us old school folks, are paying dear attention, after all we were the ones that had to defend the rep of Manassas and UNofficial zip codes…..LOL!!! They need to just STFU! 🙂
The above ^^^^^ was not PC & I admit that 🙂 🙂
I think Kim’s question to Steve Thomas was excellent…..”have you visited the store” ?
What I appreciated MOST about the debate was the civil tone. Honestly, I don’t know if there was a “winner” but what I would say is they were both winners for being respectful to each other and remaining calm.
@Red Dawn
It is perfectlyPC around these parts.
@Elena, I agree.
And Steve is to be commended for keeping the debate civil wherever he is posting. I don’t agree with him, but he articulates his position well and he has been polite and respectful of those with whom he disagrees in my online dealings with him.
I rewatched the debate between Steve and Kim. I don’t like it that he tried to personalize the debate to include a suggestion about her daughter starring in videos. Her daughter doesn’t and there is no reason to insinuate she would.
That kind of personalization is a red herring to distract.
What got most people’s attention is the City’s absolute hypocrisy over location. Nothing can be seen from the street. The kid card cannot be played. Not in a little city where there are 12 establishments that sell alcohol on and/or off.
agree completely Moon.
Great ribbon cutting, HMI was gracious, plenty of supporters, ages 20 – 80. As for the news segment, Steve was civil except for the comment about Kristina. Wouldn’t call him flustered — just tough being in front of lights & camera (not easy).
But why debate at all? The newscaster talked about neighborliness:
1. Kim did not open before the Fall Jubilee.
2. She is trained to fit breast cancer survivors with prosthetics at the store, a fact she didn’t feel she could promote with all the uproar, even though it’s breast cancer awareness month.
3. She not only joined the Prince William Chamber, she went the extra step to be a charter founding member and is meeting with a small business mentor this week through George Mason.
4. She’s already given HMI a check for part of the proceeds of the T-shirts she’s selling to go toward the sesquicentennial fund.
5. She invited the community to the ribbon cutting this morning and opened her doors for any adult to walk in and see. I think that’s plenty neighborly.
If people don’t like the adult DVDs, don’t buy them. No store owner is going to stock something that doesn’t sell, especially with that limited of a space.
I think the store fills a needed niche in Old Town for “woman friendly.” I go to Old Town for the great customer service and a personal relationship with store owners, not necessarily for “family friendly.” Besides, as I told the council, it was coming out of the Center for the Arts with my son after seeing “Godspell” that we encountered a drunk laying on a bench. You’re not going to close down the bars because of those negative secondary effects.
Thanks to the publicity, she has people coming from Maryland and DC to visit Old Town. Isn’t that the point? Whoever suggested the other niches like the cooking classes/school and Williams-Sonoma, those are great ideas.
The Gene Pitney song from the 50s keeps going through my head:
How can we keep love alive
How can anything survive
When these little minds tear you in two
What a town without pity can do
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9hztvf66qQ
@Cindy,
Great write up, Cindy. You bring up many great points that perhaps aren’t obvious to the public.
Gene Pitney music and everything…that says it all. I am glad that out of towners care coming to Manassas. I thought that would happen. It certainly has in other communities when they have specialty stores of that nature.
Maybe some of the council will end up eating their words. I am sorry they weren’t on hand for the ribbon cutting. Failure to be there doesn’t not speak well for the City. It would seem to me that Kim and Kristina are willing to work with the business community…more than willing. How about the City Council? Are they going to pick and choose which business leaders they associate with? Now that sounds to me like they are more worried about the next election than they are what is best for the City of Manassas.
Why is Steve Thomas representing the opposing view? He’s not selling me on the idea that he’s merely a Manassas City resident upset by the store’s opening. Could it be that he, as vice- chairman of the City of Manassas Republican Committee, is trying to dig the local Repubs out of the hole some of them dug by screeching “porn shop” before they ever set foot in the store? They (including Mr. Special Ops) were surprised by the support that the store received and are practicing damage control.
Hank Silverberg’s WTOP report:
http://www.wtop.com/?nid=730&sid=2086453
The segment tonight interviewed some – excuse me if I get this wrong – women that wear red hats and both said they were thinking about dropping by and shopping. That’s awesome. You go ladies!!
I do like that on Fox they showed the room in question at a distance where you couldn’t make out the finer details but did show the DVD covers. That was amusing.
I can’t stand the idea of govt intruding on the free market. And, until I can spawn a few broodlings I have disposable income to spend. Starbucks allow’s me to carry a pistol so I buy coffee like crazy to support them and I think I’ll do the same with KK. 🙂
Red Hat Society? http://www.redhatsociety.com/
Except I don’t think they sell coffee. I will have to check out fox tonight. I was doing a power nap during their prime news time.
Censored, I know who they are NOT going to send out for damage control–he who caused the most damage. nor he would stirred up the parishoners in his church. Both shouted PORN SHOP thus cutting off all productive dialogue.
Hey, Moon, you are getting me a bit confused with that business about the “kid card” being a bunch of bull crap. Seems like all the rest of the time when we conservatives get into a debate, all we hear from the other side is: “But it’s for the children!”
I wouldn’t know about that. I rarely argue for kids unless I am speaking of schools.
I might be guilty of arguing that class size makes a huge difference in the school setting. Actually, I am one of those people who stresses that kids and adults aren’t on the same footing and don’t have the same rights by virtue of age.
Those women were dragging their kids into an argument that had nothing to do with kids. Why would anyone take their children to an ‘adult shop?’
And that’s sort of the problem with conservatives…there is always an ‘other side.’
That’s because, these days, it seems like there always is.
I still haven’t the heard the “debate” from Tuesday night yet. Therefore, I can’t comment on that. I am curious if channel 5 realized that Mr. Thomas was the Republican Committee Veep. I think that fact should’ve been included in the segment. I gather from Censored’s post that that little tidbit of information was left out, if known at all. Damage control? Some damage can’t be controlled.
I’ve “interviewed” family members that are breast cancer survivors. It’s important to point out that all three live in the 50th and 29th districts. They are quite excited about the fact that they will no longer need to travel outside of Manassas/PWC for a prothstetic bra. These are voting individuals that are involved in several large groups of cancer survivors. I believe one or two of them plan to discuss this at one of their survivor groups. I doubt that those BC survivors will be too willing to support those that have in the past for their representation in Richmond. They are NONE to pleased with opposition of a store that will improve their quality of life. I suppose the “opposition” doesn’t haven’t any breast cancer survivors in their families. I seriously, doubt that. It’s hard to find a person that doesn’t have a family member that’s had breast cancer. They are fully aware of the players and the emails for the call to come out and oppose the store.
C’mon people, October is Breast Cancer Awareness Month!! And on that note I’d like to add that breast cancer is NOT just a female cancer. I know several men that are breast cancer survivors. Please, remember to do a self examination monthly and have an annual mammogram. Hopefully, a self examination isn’t considered some evil form of masturbation with some of the religious right folks.
I guess that works both ways. I always feel like there is a finger pointing. I never thought of myself as ‘the other side’ for most of my life. Now I do.
Here’s NBC News 4’s segment:
http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local-beat/You-Know-Where-You-Can-Put-Your-Sex-Toys-105333813.html
Hope the Red Hat ladies suggested Kim carry lingerie in their colors!
I see that Del. Miller managed to get his face on camera again. Isn’t he up for re-election next year?
IVAN, perhaps the folks in Jackson Miller’s district need to find a candidate willing to look at situations more objectively – from a fiscal as well as social stand point. His shoot-from-the-lip method appeals to voters swayed by emotion and not facts. Admittedly, that segment of the population votes. But it often overlooks legitimate concerns such as those Lafayette mentioned above about breast cancer survivors – or women in general.
Channel 4 makes City of Manassas look even more provincial. Miller is still running his porno pep rally: Just say NO to vibrators. Ahhh, that’s gonna have to follow the guy.
Is it just me or does he sound horribly paternalistic? HE hasn’t gone after the other PORNO shops? Give me a break.
What these politicians don’t seem to realize is, they have the support of their base. It’s people like me who aren’t their base who are going to become their worst political nightmare.
Watch me pull out a Fitzsimmons flag for the duration. It won’t be sincere but my vote for the Democrat or Independent will be once Fitzie is the Republican candidate.
Apparently Del. Miller thinks that there is a different set of laws for Old Town than other areas of Manassas. Doesn’t he know that going against these laws are going against “The Word of God”. I guess he hasn’t learned from his “Definition of Family” effort that has cost City taxpayers 3 million dollars. Apparently votes are worth more than taxpayer dollars.
@Ivan, this one was a cheapie. They are only spending $71,000. I think the City must print up its own money. They sure seem to have enough to throw around on causes. They also are more willing to invest seed money than the county.
Is the City where all the rich people live?
When is the City gonna get some pride and just start feeling silly? Or maybe I should rephrase and ask which business owner in the area is going to admit that their business is doing just a little bit better?
Lafayette,
Awesome post. The reality is that these people could have cared less WHAT was in the store ,they were so overcome with hysteria brought about by Miller et al, they thought sex and over reacted. I think this is where a little fact finding would have been prudent before their all out assualt in the shop.
Ha ha – “definition of family”! I’m familiair with that one. Miller cost the taxpayers big bucks on that one and then ran away – to the become a delegate. I attempted to defend the definition of “family” on a message board with national readership once and practically got run out of town on a rail. I think about 95% of the posters (and they were a mix of political persuasions) thought that Manassas was “yahoo central” after that episode. Beach towns and college towns deal with similar problems all the time and never resorted to defining “family”. I hear Miller leaned hard on staff to come up with something similar to Herndon’s approach.
BAWAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Look Ivan, only CERTAIN elected officials are “put here by G-d”, don’t be silly.
ELENA: Apparently he (G-d) put certain someones here to tell us who those certain elected officials are.
Thanks, Elena. I’ve discussed my post with one survivor. I’m seriously considering writing a LTE on this point that’s been painfully absent from the discussion of the new store. I really do find myself quite disappointed in my fellow mankind that have come out in opposition of shop that will improve a small part of a survivor’s life. What a slap in the face to each and every BC survivor in the area. 🙁 Furthermore, it’s going to be bringing MONEY back to our area that is typically taken to Warrenton, Fairfax or Vienna or prothstetic bras. It’s a shame that some can’t see the forest for the trees.
oops..
FOR prothstetic bras.
Lafayette, and that’s a big problem with current delegate Miller. Not only did he not see the benefits that a store such as KK’s would have for many women (and the City’s tax base), but his vote on the Machinery & Tools tax showed that he had little regard for the taxpayers of the City who would have a large budget deficit to deal with had he had his way. He represents City taxpayers even as a state delegate. However, he’s willing to screw them for the sake of a large business. (I can hear the argument now about businesses needing a break to create jobs. However, the City is lucky that a particular large business remains in Manassas. I doubt that job creation is forefront in its objectives right now. it’s probably trying to merely remain viable.)
MH,
First off, I would like to thank you for the fair treatment I was given in the original post of this thread, and I would also like to commend you, Elena and CindyB for keeping the discourse/debate we have had on this issue civil, respectful and based on substance. We have disagreed, without attacking each other personally, and I consider our discussions to-date productive. I thank you for your previous invitation to join the discussion here, and to present my side of the issue. This is your house, and I am your guest. I will do my best to be a good one.
Ms.CindyB, you are correct in your assessment that the physical environment of the studio was challenging for me. I doubt few of you on this board know that I have a service-related disability. Simply put, I am a retired marine grunt/artilleryman and I am hearing disabled. The earpiece provided was not compatible with my hearing aids, and didn’t fit well in my ear. Ms. Skokan and I were in separate rooms, and couldn’t see each other, as a result I couldn’t read her lips. Not to be disrespectful, but Ms. Skokan has a “little girls voice” and was difficult to hear, combined with the fact that she was trying to talk over the anchor on several occasions, and this made hearing and processing what she was saying very difficult, while the anchor’s questions were clear and easy to hear.
I would have to say that the on-air discussion was a draw. Ms. Skokan made her points, and I made mine. In fairness to KK’s owners I tried to be very specific as to what I find objectionable about her business model so that Ms. Skokan could respond to these, instead of speaking in sweeping generalities. I used specific terms (XXX-videos) to differentiate these from something that may include nudity, such as an instructional video on couples massage. I also tried to be specific as to why I find the XXX videos objectionable, in what little time I was afforded to do so. I even went so far as to say if they did not sell what I find objectionable, I would have no reservations about their business and would probably even shop there myself. I admitted that I had not gone into her store, because I find XXX videos offensive. Ms. Skokan made her points: She has a legitimate and lawful right to open and run her business and make a profit doing so. She sells XXX-rated videos, and will continue to do so, but sells more than just XXX videos. She has had customers from the community, and there are other businesses in the area and some citizens who have voiced support for her and her daughter. While it is my opinion that she does spin and stretch the facts when she can, I did not object to her points. I tried very hard to be civil, respectful, and specific.
This is a matter of principle: I don’t shop at MVC, and have never been in Fashion Fantasy either, but I can respect that there are those who would want to. I once walked into the little video store next to Virginia Arms on 28, and saw the swinging doors marked “adults only” section and turned around and walked out. I do wish that people didn’t feel the need to buy these, but they do. I wish they weren’t sold anywhere in Manassas, but accept that they are. I don’t believe that the sale of these videos is appropriate for the area (Old Town) in which they are being sold. I object to explicit videos, pictures or other media that show actual sex acts. I believe I was fair. Ms. Skokan conceded that she does indeed sell these XXX-rated videos, and will keep doing so “because her neighbors are buying them”, and will not stop selling them. So in fairness, why I should visit her store, just to verify what I know she is selling and she admits is selling, before I ,as she put it “make accusations”?
My opinion is this type of material is not innocuous, does nothing to further a civil society, causes actual harm to relationships (porn and sex addictions), objectifies women and fills both men and women’s heads with unrealistic examples of what a healthy relationship looks like. If anyone would like to discuss/debate this, I would welcome the opportunity to do so, but I digress.
I find it odd that while some folks here object to my question to Ms. Skokan, saying I made it personal, yet no one objects to her question asking me if I had ever been in her store, when it is clear her intention was to make it personal. Her question came first. She asked if I had ever been in her store. I had already stated that I find the XXX-rated videos objectionable on principle. She acknowledges she sells them, and states as long as she can make money doing so, she will continue to do so, not even to “be a good neighbor”. I stated that I would enter her store and even purchase lingerie or some other product I do not object to, if she no longer sold XXX rated videos. I don’t care if she sells instructional videos on nude massage. I don’t find nude bodies objectionable, and I don’t object to legitimate massage. I object to videos with titles like “Hot Adolescent Sluts” (an actual title she carries), which show all manner of actual sexual activity in all its graphic detail. Ms. Skokan is a woman. Ms. Skokan is a mother. Miss Skokan the younger is her daughter, and is co-owner. They both sell these XXX-rated videos. I asked what I believe is a fair question. Ms. Skokan’s question was meant to gauge and challenge my principles, and she in-so-many words implied that I am a hypocrite for judging her store, without actually stepping into it, even after admitting that she sells the very thing I object to, and does it for money. The intent of my question was the same. I wanted to challenge her principles as a woman, and a mother, who is engaged in a business practice with her daughter, selling videos of other women, other mothers and daughters being filmed having actual sexual intercourse, for money. I believe this is fair point of debate, because she has made much of the mother/daughter team. If her daughter was not profiting from the sale of these videos or otherwise involved in the business then referring to her would have been out-of-bounds, in my opinion. But the fact is, both she and her daughter are involved.
Remember, I answered Ms. Skokan’s question to me, when asked if I had entered her store. It was an honest answer. Considering the discussion leading up to that point, where I was clear in what I object to, and she freely admits that she sells what I object to, she asks me if I had visited her store. Fair question, perhaps. But really, to what end? Clearly, she wanted to paint me as a hypocrite. In the 2.5 seconds I had to process and formulate and answer I decided to answer as honestly and respectfully as possible, saying it was a matter of principle. I said I object to these XXX videos, and would visit her store if she got rid of them. But did she answer my question? No. She did not. She said “My daughter is not in those videos, so I am not even going to address that.” Fact: She sells videos of other people’s daughters g and being paid to have sex for money. Not “actors”. There’s no “acting” here beyond the fact that they are “acting” like they are enjoying it. They aren’t “acting” like they are having intercourse…they ARE, and they are getting paid to do it. And Ms Skokan is profiting from it. Well if it’s OK for them to sell these videos for money, then it must be OK to star in these videos for money, especially if you’re one of the people selling the actual videos. I think the question fair. She refused to answer the question. So I ask, who’s the real hypocrite here?
Now, for those who want to make a big deal about me being the Vice-chairman of the Manassas GOP, let’s look at this rationally. I’m a Republican. Delegate Miller is a Republican. Mayor Parrish is a Republican, and 5 of 6 City Council members are Republicans. If your argument is that I am speaking out against KK’s Temptations sales of XXX-rated videos because I am a loyal foot-soldier for the Republican party, you couldn’t be more wrong. Do I support the actions the City Council is taking to regulate sexually oriented business in Manassas? I do. 100%. I do this on principle, and I hope I was articulate enough in by statements above for you to understand what that principle is. I would support the actions of Council in this matter, regardless of party affiliation. Do I support Delegate Miller’s opposition toKK’s? Yes, because he objects to KK’s Temptations for the same reasons I do. However, I do not speak for Delegate Miller, or the City Council. If Ms. E.J. Scott (Manassas Democrat Committee Chairman) or Mrs. Jennette Rishell were to voice opposition to KK’s Temptations, I would publically support their actions as well. If you really think my actions politically motivated…go right ahead. This past Fathers Day, I rode with Vice-Mayor Andy Harrover in a 33-mile Tour-de-cure Diabetes Bicylce ride, after raising the donations required to do so. I finished, but I about died doing so. The Vice-Mayor is a Republican, and I am the Republican Vice-Chairman. I guess you could make the argument that my motivations for putting myself through that ride were political, and I was only there to support a fellow Republican. And I’ll make the argument that I think Diabetes is bad, want to see it eradicated and am willing to subject myself to some pain if it helps develop a cure. There were other things I could have been doing that day, like enjoying being a Husband and Father on the day set aside to honor Fathers, just like there’s other things I could be doing besides speaking out against these videos as something I see as harmful to the community. No one asked me to do this, not Delegate Miller, nor any other elected official. When I speak on this issue, I do so as a citizen of Manassas, Husband of a wife I whom respect and cherish, and Father of a daughter I adore. FOX5 asked me to come in studio, because I am a citizen who has been very publically opposed to KK’s from the beginning and am knowledgeable of the history of the issue…not because I am the Manassas City GOP Vice Chairman. So go ahead and make this a GOP issue. You are entitled to your opinion, but don’t holler “dirty pool” if a Democrat gets attacked for their silence either.
If you think that this is just another political exercise for me, or question my motivations, please consider the following:
-I am here publically, and not posting under a screen name, or hiding behind a cloak of anonymity.
-I trying very hard to not let my passionate opposition to the Skokan’s business model be communicated in any way except the most civil tone possible.
-I have publically condemned ad hominem attacks against MH, Elena, CindyB and any other person, man or woman, whose views are opposed to mine, and I do so again here and now. These ladies are all someone’s wife, daughter or mother.
-I have not engaged in ad hominem attacks against either of the owners of the store. I disagree with some of their business principles, and have restricted my arguments to these specific areas.
-and I have not attacked anyone whose engaged in a similar attack against me, made snide comments, etc.
In closing, I’d like to again thank Moon Howler and Elena for allowing me to respond to the comments, and present my opposing views. They have treated me with respect, and I will do likewise. Like my good friend Andy says; Democracy ain’t pretty and it can be messy, but it’s what we’ve got to work with. The community and the market will determine the outcome of this issue. All we can do is respectfully state our positions, clearly and rationally.
@Elena
Elena,
Even Ms. Skokan admits that no one reacted until they saw “Adult DVD’s, Lingere Lotions and More” on her sign, went to their website, and saw what “Adult DVD’s” and “More” consisted of. She pulled down her website when citizens reacted, and has primarily addressed the public via the press. She sent her lawyer to address City Council, who simply said she’d follow the law, and wants to be a good neighbor. Not a lot of facts to be had there, and I while I don’t speak for everyone, it’s the sale of XXX-video that most object to. Not the clothing, and for many, not even the “adult novelties”. We’ve already established that she sells these videos, well before the store was even open. So where did people get the facts wrong?
Ivan,
If you don’t think there are existing ordinances for the Old Town Historic district that differ from other business and retail districts in the city, then you are mistaken. They are called zoning ordinances, and they are in fact very different and much more stringent than those in other areas.
I seriously doubt he will admit he was wrong or that he was far too agressive with people who did not agree with him.@Ivan
Welcome Steve and thank you for responding. You cleared up some issues that perhaps weren’t immediately apparent during the ‘debate.’ I hate calling it that because it really wasn’t a debate but a chance for 2 opposing sides to speak to their issue.
I will have to say again that I am glad you were selected for ‘opposing side.’ I probably agree with you about the XXX type of film. I just react differently. As long as no one is making me watch, I live and let live. Your remarks about them containing someone’s daughter should not go unnoticed.
Above all, that is your opinion and you certainly have been very specific about exactly what it is you object to. You also extend your objections to anywhere in the city. I can respect that. It isn’t the sword I would chose to fall on but…to each his own.
Again, welcome and feel free to join in to any of our conversations. I am not sure we even have any Democrats here. There are some tea party people, some Republicans and lots of people who claim to be moderates. We might have 2-3 liberals.
Steve,
Nice to read your words here on moonhowlings. I don’t think it’s a “big deal” that your the Republican Veep. However, I do feel this whole store situation has been politcized by the city Republicans. Therefore, I do think it may have been worth mentioning. It’s hard to be just a private citizen when “offices” are held in organizations that are politically engaged. You are indeed a private citizen first. We need more engaged citizens on all sides and issues.
The problem is store is LEGAL with the existing laws/ordiances that are on the books in CoM. As a native of Manassas, I find it very hard to believe that the CoM had NOTHING on the books to prevent this store in Old Town. The very OTM that’s “family friendly”. City got caught with their pants down, and people got in uproar over a perfectly LEGAL business. I’m all in favor of retricitons in the future.
I hope those that oppose realize that not everyone is going in there for sex and should not be deemed a perv for shopping there. I know my family members will be there twice a year for prothstetic bras. These are ladies in their 80’s, 70’s, & 60’s, that for years have had to travel(Warrenton, Fairfax & Vienna) a ways for a basic item such as a bra. Those bras and prothstectics aren’t cheap. This is money that will be returning to Manassas. Don’t you think these cancer survivors deserve a store that suits their needs? I sure do. The sad thing is everyone has chosen to focus on the sex aspect and NOT the positive aspect of prothstetics.
“The woman who spoke up and said something to the effect that the husbands would all want the wives to do things they didn’t want to do”
WHAT? There’s OTHER THINGS TO DO!? Why didn’t someone tell me? What other things? Elaborate please! Inquiring minds need to know!
😉
@Lafayette
Lafayette,
I must ask, when the City Council acted, were they doing so as “Republicans” or “City Council Members”? Considering that the make up of council is 5 “Rs” and 1 “I”, I can see where it is tough to draw the distinction. If all I ever saw were green frogs, I could assert that all frogs are green. However, after digging a bit deeper, I would find that there are green, yellow, red and even blue frogs. Therefore my original assertion was incorrect.
However, I don’t see this as a Republican issue, or even a Conservative vs. Liberal issue. The Council is a pretty diverse crowd, with members falling all over the spectrum, but they are united and unanimous in their intent. But I know MANY Republicans who think this is a “market issue”, while others a “obscenity issue” . Some are very supportive of the business, while others are getting ulcers about it. The City did get caught flat-footed, I agree with you. There were many concerned citizens who were angry about the store, and either wanted to direct the anger at City Council for letting it happen, or were angry that Council wasn’t willing to rescind the permit without a solid legal basis for doing so. I spoke with these people and tried to point out the gaps in their logic. I did this by pointing to the fact that it had been many, many years since a sexually oriented business had opened in Manassas, and I don’t know of anyone who would have thought in a million years that a shop like KK’s would try to open in Old Town. This group of people who thought the status quo would last forever included myself. Can’t fault City Council for not having a Crystal Ball. Secondly, I tried to get people to define what they object to.
I am glad you agree that Council is right to set up tighter standards to regulate both current and future businesses of this nature. On this we can agree. I cannot speak for everyone, but I think I have been very clear about what most of the people I have spoken with find objectionable. I believe the only progress that can and will be made on this issue will occur only if we speak in specifics, instead of sweeping generalities.
I have said it before, and will do so again: I do not object to anything sold in her store, except for the XXX-rated DVD’s. I too was initially guilty of using the general term “Porn”. While XXX-Rated DVD’s may be “Porn”, “Porn” is too general a term for the discussion and too subjective a measure. If I say KK’s sells “Porn”, Ms. Skokan can say she doesn’t think she does, and a whole lot of people can agree with her. If I say she sells XXX-Rated Videos, nobody can say she does not, because it is a provable fact, with a clearly measurable definition. I think it’s great she sells prosthetic bras for cancer survivors. I think it’s just fine that she sells intimate clothing. And while some on my side may disagree with me on this category of product, I don’t have a problem with the vibrators and other novelties, as I don’t see where these items victimize anyone, and can see that they can enhance a pleasurable experience between two consenting adults. Profiting from the sale of XXX-Rated, graphic DVD’s is profiting from the victimization and objectification of people, especially women. I like a good T-Bone steak, but if you serve it to me on a trash-can lid, I’m not going to eat it.
I think XXX-rated media is harmful, and will even go so far as to call it “evil” because of the widespread damage it can cause. There’s way too much proof of these harmful effects have on the consumers of this media for anyone to convince me otherwise. It is a common factor in the background of rapists, child-molesters and those who abuse women. Children and Young Adults exposed to it get a warped view of what healthy human sexual relationships are all about. “Porn Addiction”, regardless of the delivery medium, can destroy relationships. Women think “How can I compete with the way those women act, look, and perform?” Men think “why can’t she be more like that?” They also think “Why bother putting the time and energy into a loving relationship, built on trust and respect, when I can get instant gratification without the effort by viewing XXX-rated material?” While some can point to couples who say “We watch it together, and enjoy it” Studies show this is the exception, not the rule. I would welcome the opportunity to discuss this in greater detail with anyone.
So, there it is. I concede that based on the prevailing law, The Ladies Skokan are running a legal and legitimate business. I hope my position is clear regarding what I object to, and that I have presented a compelling enough argument that one could at least say “while I don’t agree, I believe his reasons valid and sound, and he’s going about it in a civil manner”. I object to what is being sold, and where it is being sold, as I don’t believe XXX-rated DVD’s should be sold in an area where families frequent. I will not drop my opposition to the store, nor cease in my efforts to get them to either voluntarily stop selling them in that store, and will continue to support the Council’s efforts to regulate these types of businesses. The debate will broaden, because we are already seeing a “negative secondary effect” in the making, right next door to KK’s location. Anyone know about this?
Steve Thomas, do you think “porn addiction” is any more harmful to a marriage or relationship than “gaming addiction”, gambling, alcoholism, political obsessions, or any other addictive behavior which becomes more important to an individual than his/her relationship with his/her family?
Too many Republicans (not all, obviously) have a paternalistic attitude when it comes to women. They’re far too interested in what we do in our bedrooms, how we control/don’t control our family sizes, whether we buy sex toys, whether we’re gay or Lesbian. This voyeuristic interest in others’ sexuality makes it hard to accept the argument that women are victims and objects, little fragile flowers in need of some man’s protection. I saw “Pink Flamingos” in college. It was probably the most X-rated film I’ve ever seen, but I was not nearly as offended by that film as I am at the current political assault on women that I see being orchestrated by the far right-wing of your party.
Perhaps you’d be interested in telling us precisely how Jackson Miller came to lead the “porn” charge that resulted in the City Council’s public meeting on the issue. Did it start with a Councilman’s address at his local church? Did a particular group email Delegate Miller asking him to address the proposed store? Who came up with the idea of the green balloons and rally in front of the store? (I noticed when picking up my drycleaning that a space had been left open in front of the store. Why?)
Do you have any evidence that there’s increased crime or negative secondary effects in the areas surrounding the other two similar stores in the City? Do spill the beans about problems already cropping up next door to the store.
Hi Steve. (I wear hearing aids, too — don’t you love it when an organist hits a high note?)
Between Del. Miller’s urgent call to action and (according to the Manassas Observer), the mayor’s letter, I would call this politicized, only in that I never got either of these communications, and I’m a city resident. Did they go to political mailing lists?
Any time someone yells “fire” or another inflammatory word, you’ll get a rush of panicked, frightened people. Glad to hear you stepped in as peacemaker about the protest during the Fall Jubilee. More people need to step forward and take that role.
At least one elected official I talked to at the Chamber trade show yesterday is considering visiting the shop. I would encourage other decision makers to do likewise.
I still want to whine about the $71,000, which looks like a pie cooling on a window sill: $3K for a 2nd opinion (already spent); $50K to a national expert for the study; $10K for a 3rd opinion; $5K for a 2nd opinion on licensing & $3K for a map. What’s left? Two adult stores that haven’t had negative secondary effects in years, despite being close to a library, day care, school & school bus stop. A pretty, upscale store in Old Town that women are flocking to. And a map squeezing all future adult biz out of the city’s 10 sq. miles. Can’t we come to that conclusion for a lot less money?
PS – that’s more than once I’ve heard the store next door to KK’s trumpeted as a potential negative secondary effect. Sounds like someone’s trying to build a record.
Cindy,
I sure hope the elected official decides to stop by the store. I was there yesterday to get some information for family members. They did not want to risk be ridiculed for entering the store while it’s still the “hot topic”. While I was there I did see one elected official come in to check the store out for themselves. I told them I was so glad to see them there. I hope other follow his lead.
Steve,
I say it was Republican driven when I get an email from my state representive to come out against a CoM issue. I’m sure that email went to mostly R’s. Therefore, my perception is that is was republican driven. I saw the names of those that said they’d be attending the rally on FB and most of those people were known republican supporters. Of course I do realize that there and D’s & I’s that oppose and favor the store. All for various reasons. I’ve never aligned myself with either party. I am very much independent. I’m not one to broad-brush/generalize.
I’ve not been real vocal on this issue, as I am not a City of Manassas resident. We probably agree on this issue you than you may realize. I’m with you, regarding the DVD’s. They are not my cup of tea, but if someone else wants to look at them. That’s there business.
I’m glad to know that you reconsidered the use of the word “porn”. It’s too bad others haven’t followed in your footsteps in that regard. There’s no doubt in my mind that you tried to get folks to be logical. I have seen you be the voice of reason and sanity and prevail on a couple of occassions myself. I applaud your efforts. Unfortunately, there are just some that refuse to budge from their point of view.
The consumers will dictate if the business stays open or not. Perhaps, the novelity of the store that sells novelities will wear off. Time will tell.
I really do think more discussion is needed on this issue. I really think a friendly meeting between some would be good for all that have taken an interest in this matter. What ever happened to the idea of Andy H hosted a gathering?
You can call me Chris here, my real name is no secrect and never has been. 😉
A fellow city resident just sent me a copy of the mayor’s letter and said it was sent to everyone who wrote the council, so it did not go out to a political mailing list.
I could make a stronger argument for kids not being around all the restaurant/bars in Old Town. There is nothing less family friendly than drunkeness and alcoholism. Are all drinkers drunks? Of course not. All people who watch what you or I might consider porn do not become addiicts or rapists either.
As for secondary negative effects, that’s an easy one. Call your police chief and direct him to start making more arrests. There’s the trumped up evidence. I can’t see KK’s doing anything other than attracting more people towards Old Town shopping.
Not that is matters, but if asked what political party was leading the charge, I would have to say Republican. Steve makes an interesting point about the green mice, and one I cannot disagree with. It is sort of along the lines of hen’s teeth. However, my correspondence and communication on the subject of KK’s was very party specific and lead by party people.
Perhaps someone was wearing too many hats.
Hello, MH and all your readers! I have been reading the blog, and since Mr. Thomas alludes to the “secondary effect” next door to KK’s, and since I know what this ILLUSION of the effect is, I shall “spill the beans” as Censored asks.
The Convenience Store next door to KK’s is shifting to new management (according to the sign on the door). Mr. Aveni is raising the issue that it will be selling beer and wine, and also be a payday/car title lending place. My understanding is he objects to the lender part, as if it is beer and wine he objects to, then Opera House will have to go too.
I too object to the high interest of these secured loans, but that is a General Assembly issue. Over the last several years in both houses down in Richmond, bills are placed and die in the two Commerce Committees. Nobody wants to be like NC and slamdunk the high interest rates. The issue is does this fit in Old Town? Right now with no plan as to “what fits”, any store “fits”.
Regardless of what that store does, it should NOT be considered a “secondary” as that is no basis in fact. The former store sold Lottery Tickets which, by Gamblers Anon, is one aspect of abuse by someone have addiction. No outcry there, but since the VA Lottery placed $5billion into education over 10 years, guess that is “family friendly”.
Thanks, Moon, for clearing my posting!
Is the negative secondary effect a lack of parking spaces as new customers rush to the store? I hope it’s not an ABC license – can’t pull that card with a nearby 7-11 and gourmet shop.
Welcome Raymond Beverage. I am sorry you had to wait. Your comments should go right through from here on out.
I don’t like title lending either. But as you said, that is an issue for the GA. It certainly has nothing to do with KK’s.