The Prince William County School Board has passed a resolution asking the BOCS for permission to apply for federal Education Jobs Fund money to hire teachers in the current school year. The county school system ended up with an additional 807 students for the current school year which made the current teacher shortage even more severe. The cost for this many students is just under $8.7 million, or just under $11,000 per pupil.
According to News and Messenger:
Prince William County Public Schools has been allocated about $17 million through the Federal Education Jobs Fund Program, but the school division can’t use that money unless the county approves it.
The School Board voted 7 to 1 Wednesday to ask the Board of County Supervisors to allocate $5.8 million of the federal money to the school division in the current school year to help pay the costs for the additional students who enrolled. The other $2.9 million needed would come from state funding.
Neabsco District representative Lisa Bell cast the dissenting vote.
The School Board’s resolution also proposes discussing what to do with the remaining $11.2 million in federal money during its budget process for fiscal 2012.
In August, the Board of County Supervisors passed a resolution stating that they would not address the federal education jobs fund money until the fiscal 2012 budget process.
The School Board is hoping they will change their mind.
One has to question Ms. Bell. What plan does she have to pay for educating over 800 more students? Meanwhile, it will be interesting to see what the current BOCS does in response to the School Board resolution. Last August the BOCS got hysterical because they thought Superintendent Walts was issuing contracts to teachers without permission from them to take stimulus money. They called an emergency meeting even though Corey Stewart, Maureen Caddigan and John Jenkins were out of town.
The School Board had not been briefed and Chairman Johns requested that the BOCS not take permanent action until a presentation could be arranged. Mr. Johns was ignored. Supervisors Stirrup, Nohe, Covington, and May all voted to turn down the stimulus package. Supervisor Principi left the room in hopes of stopping the decision from being made that night.
Moonhowlings blog has been highly critical of the County Board of Supervisors for this hasty action. Teachers were needed before the 807 new students arrived on the scene. Nothing affects quality instruction and the classroom environment like class size and most class sizes in PWC are too large. Even if our students could have better conditions for one year, that is better than nothing.
We realize that the supervisors will be running for re-election next year and nothing says ‘good politician’ like voting NO on spending money. The supervisors need to get over the idea of placing re-election ahead of what’s best for Prince William County students. Classrooms with 35 kids are not going to be productive. If PWC doesn’t take the money, then someone else will.
We call upon the County Supervisors to do the right thing and accept stimulus money to ease the classroom burden. 800 students is a lot of kids to educate. All the excuses I have heard simply aren’t going to play out. Not the continuing contract excuse (write a conditional contract), not the VRS contribution (stimulus funds can be spent here) and not the hysterical ‘what will we do about next year’ shrieker. (worry about this year , this year.)
Hats off again to Supervisor Frank Principi for trying to do the right thing. Maybe this time the other supervisors will join him.
The BOCS decision to decline federal funds for educating our county’s children, in order to win some silly ideological battle, is sickening, revolting and disgusting.
Sit the BOCS in a crowded classroom for a day. Or make them change classrooms at a middle or high school. Give them a flavor for the environment they are inflicting on our children.
True. Those are our dollars (or debt). Let’s try to get some benefit locally. I see no problem with provisional contracts. They might give us an idea of where our strengths or weaknesses are.
What are the strings attached to that money? Will the funding stop in a couple of years, leaving the district liable for increased salary needs? Free money is like free puppies.
Oh, and the federal government DOESN’T HAVE ANY MONEY. So, are you comfortable using borrowed money or printed money to pay for this?
TANSTAAFL.
Cargo, The only strings are what it can be spent on. It can’t be used to build a new school. It can be used to hire teachers, assistants, bus drivers. It also covers employees benefits when hired. I can’t remember it all but nothing out of the ordinary.
Are you comfortable letting someone else have it when you ultimately have to pay the debt to whoever? You refusing the money doesn’t mean it won’t be borrowed.
Unlike social security and other debt spending for current “requirements” , at least here the kids will pay for the benefits recieved. 🙂 Maybe we should ask them and not the School Board or the teachers. I read somewhere that 37 cents of every federal dollar spent is now borrowed – with interest. Even these kids will undertand it if you explain that Dad is now going to take back 38 cents (interest) of every allowance dollar to pay for his boat.
@TP
I hope you are making sense to yourself. You aren’t to anyone else.
No solutions, just blather. Typical.
Moon,
I have no problem letting someone else become dependent upon money that is politically fickle. I’m unemployed, yet had no problem with Virginia turning down the “extended benefits money” because I know that in the next few years, that money would disappear, yet strings attached to that money demanded that VA change the way it does things and would make VA liable for the costs WITHOUT federal money to pay for it.
If one takes fed’l funds that will cause future costs locally and you then have to pay back that borrowed money in fed taxes AND increased local taxes, then how are you saving money? If someone else uses that money, in the long run, you only are liable for the taxes to pay for that borrowing and NOT the local increases.
If enough people refuse the money and convince DC that it can’t buy support anymore, maybe we can get the debt under control. TANSTAAFL means There Ain’t No Such Thing As A Free Lunch.
Currently, 42 cents of every federal dollar is borrowed. 53-58% of the current budget goes to entitlements. That means that our taxes are now funding nothing but the entitlements. EVERYTHING ELSE IS BORROWED. Its time to stop looking for Uncle Sugar to help us out. Perhaps if Virginia kept more money in state, and didn’t have to route it through the Education dept, we would have that money.
Even England is cutting 500,000 government workers. We are the ONLY western government that thinks that it can spend its way out of debt.
@CArgo, England isn’t cutting education funds. Our BOCS would be stupid to let some other county relieve their problem with money allocated for us.
The BOCS didn’t wait to find out facts. They voted no. Wonder why that was? Elections?
Taxpayer,
What about new non-profits that solicit the BoS for a cool quarter of a million dollars? And for something that the county is already invested in with the CVB and NPS. Remember, the southern gentlemen didn’t even have a plan for the money he was asking for. Oh, and let’s not forget to mention he sold that bill of goods to the CoM and their money. I guess it’s ok for that money to come from WE the taxpayers?
Cargo, get your squirrel gun !!!
TP, enough. You aren’t going to start insulting people on here.
Moon, please, I would not and do not beleive I have ever started the doing of that.
@TP
I hope not. No more squirrel remarks please.
Won’t the schools simply dig into their rainy day fund if the request is denied?
@Moon-howler
But…what happens if the squirrel shows up? We all know that there’s really only ONE squirrel.
I suggest ignoring anyone you consider a squirrel. I don’t agree about there being only one. Certainly TP is not in any position to be name calling on here.
Marin, I don’t think it is enough and I don’t think that is what it is for, legally.
Moon, from the same article.
Right now, the school division has about $7.5 million in the general reserve fund. If the school division used that money to fund the additional students, they would be left with less than $2 million.
Am I missing something? The school has the money if they want to do it without going to the federales and taking money with strings attached. Or, why not cut something like music or archelogy?
The strings attached are minimal. I posted all this in late august. It is still in the archives.
When you spend your rainy day fund then you no longer have it.
Since 1970 the amount spent per capita on students has risen from $38K to $150K with no appreciable improvement in test scores. There is no significant correlation between student performance and funding. Given this fact, there is no compelling reason to take the funding. If enough counties were to refuse federal funding perhaps we could turn the tide on the debt which has grown by $3,000,000,000,000 in the last two years.
You might want to ask yourself why it has gone up so much, Kelly. Start with the runaway costs of special ed and the federal mandates that accompany them.
Not even sure what you mean by ‘spent per capital on students.’ Obviously in PWC the per pupil cost is less than $11k per year.
If you measure everything in test performance you are going to get a very inaccurate picture.
Actually there is high correlation between student performance and class size. Since smaller class sizes aren’t free, I would beg to differ with that statement also.
Why do you think that is? I mean, it’s rather obvious that students would receive more individual attention in a smaller class. Correlations are easy to spot, but causality is sometimes less apparent. When I was in college, lecture and class sizes exceeded 500+ on a regular basis. If the professor happened to be a Nobel Laureate or National Medal of Science recipient or some other type of hotshot you were lucky to even get into the same hall with them – watching the lecture via video link in the overflow auditorium was as close as you could get.
with the new schools opening, retirement, and attrition, the number of hires that this short term funding covers is minimal. PWC is going to hire many more teachers than this in the next few years. Hopefully by then, our tax base has recovered enough to pay for all these new teachers coming on line for the new schools, for the new houses that the BOCS just approved.
Pat, that still leaves this years bumper crop of new students in a lurch. Frankly, things were already in a lurch. It’s difficult to discuss also since you and I don’t know exactly where the shortages are.
PW won’t be hiring many more teachers if there isn’t money to do so. At what point do we start putting education above poltics? I know that much has been said in the news lately about teachers ‘unions.’ Unfortunately the real unions that have binding artitration and strikes are the ones getting everyone else in trouble. Virginia has no teachers unions. Yet the professional organizations get thrown under the same bus. That’s too bad. Apples and oranges.
When is the last time we read about a Virginia teacher’s strike? You haven’t and you won’t. Teacher’s strikes are illegal in Virginia (and most other right to work states). Strike and the state pulls your license faster than greased lighning.
Cato, You hit the nail on the head and we need to go no further. Fewer kids means more individual attention. If you tried to educate a bunch of third graders in a lecture hall I doubt if anyone would learn a damn thing, even if Piaget or Big Bird was the guest speaker.
Does anyone have a citation for a study that relates class size to student performance? We have heard this repeated so often that I am curious as to the details. For example, I have no doubt that student performance suffers when class size changes greatly (i.e. go from classes of 15 students to 30 or 35 students). But is there really a difference for smaller chclass size changes from say 25 to 30?
Kelly, I don’t know of one. I am sure there are bunches out there. I tend to be fairly skeptical of many of the educational studies out there.
25-30 students? I would say it depends on the class composition. If you have a room full of students with average motivation and support systems at home and few behavior problems, the increase might not be significant. Throw in an extra 5 in an unmotivated, class of hooligans whose parents don’t give a you know what and you might have just lost the ball game.
Conversely, removing 5 kids from a classroom makes all the difference in the world. Just walking around space and being able to arrange seats can make a difference.
Probably seeing it for yourself is the best convincer..although if you volunteer someone will probably put you to work.
If funding were the main driver of quality education, then DC schools ought to be among the best in the country. It spends about $25K per student, which is more than double the rate spent in PWC. I think we can all agree that we would not trade our school system for that of DC.
@Kelly, no one would trade, anywhere in the United States.
However, let’s not do a cause/affect there. Pouring money into the system didn’t make it a horrible school system.
Imagine a lecture hall filled with K students:) You’d need to belt them in their seats.
Class size may not matter as much in HS or college, but in the early years Pre K – 3, the students in a classroom vary widely in their social maturity, developmental level, background knowledge, cognitive level, fine motor skills, and self help skills. And the age and sex of the child also has an impact on learning readiness. A K student who turned 5 the week school started is, in many cases, going to be at a different developmental level than a student who is a month away from their 6th birthday. A 6-9 month age gap among students in a classroom does have a significant impact, especially among Pre K – Grade 1 students. And many of the younger students may require additional attention and help.
Then factor in time spent tying shoes, snapping pants, buckling belts, locating backpacks, turning jacket sleeves right-side out, cleaning noses, settling disputes among students, dealing with toileting accidents (which are pretty common in the beginning of the year), AND TEACHING and you can see how class sizes are important to consider. And yes, most K teachers have assistants, but when you have 33 K students in a class (which was the case at Baldwin until the new teacher began in mid-oct), that size does negatively impact student learning more so than a class size of of 22, assistant or no assistant.
In a perfect world, all schools would have smaller class sizes, but that not only requires funding, but requires space as well, and most elementary schools do not have the space to create more classrooms. So 22-28 students in K-5 classes pretty much remains the norm in elementary schools through out the area.
@DB
Thanks for that response, it was very informative. I don’t know much about such things but we’re expecting our first child and thus just starting to tune into the education debate.