Prince William County has no abortion clinics.  There is one that has been in the City of Manassas for over 20 years.  There are several in Fairfax County.  For some reason the Prince William County Board of Supervisors feels it necessary to pass a resolution directing Governor McDonnell to make it more difficult for abortion clinic providers to be able to practice.  What a cowardly way, once again, to interfere with a woman’s most personal choice. Over and over again, Roe vs Wade has been reaffirmed.  This is simply a back door tactic to prevent clinics that provide abortions to be able to provide services.
 
 
Here is the agenda item:

 

 

****Approve – Request the Governor of the Commonwealth

of Virginia to Direct the Virginia Board of Health

and the Virginia Board of Medicine Promulgate,

Publish and Enforce Appropriate Regulations for

First-Trimester Abortion Facilities and Providers

– Supervisor Stirrup

Local politicians have a unique role as  public servants; they do not need to be ideologically driven.  Their job is to work on every day issues that effect our daily lives.  Abortion does not fall into this category.

Wouldn’t the BOCS energy be better utilized implementing programs to PREVENT unwanted pregnancies?  Comprehensive sex ed, not just teaching abstinence, but teaching about birth control,  has been proven, time and time again, to reduce unwanted pregnancies in young people.

How about targeting our most at-risk youth by providing quality after-school programs?  Do you think that the School Resource Officers that were just eliminated had an impact on making quality connections with kids to help foster self esteem?  Give me a break, if these Supervisors pass this  Feet in the Stirrups Resolution, they are simply abdicating their actual responsibility to work towards creating meaningful ways to prevent the NEED for abortion!  THAT they can do on a local level!

 

 

No woman chooses an abortion cavalierly.  It is a very personal decision, one that these supervisors have no place inserting themselves into.  Furthermore, the Feet in the Stirrups Resolution claims that “the potential complications of abortion procedures are numerous and well documented.”  That is a lie.  If these complications are potential then they haven’t happened so how on earth could they be well-documented?   There is no object research from any credible scientific study that makes any such claims.

The Feet in the Stirrups Resolution further claims that “abortions are rationally distinction from other types of medical procedures and so may be subject to separate and specific health regulation.”  Duh!  Yes, abortion is different from vasectomy.  A vasectomy is different that getting your wisdom teeth pulled and that is different from bunion surgery.  What sets abortion apart is that it is an emotionally charged issue.  There is nothing to make abortion any more hazardous to one’s health than any other procedure.

The Feet in the Stirrups Resolution, like its other Stirrup predecessors, is simply a house of cards, built of suppositions, misinformation, and emotion.  Our supervisors need to tend to the business of Prince William County. This Feet in the Stirrups Resolution is simply a deflection in hopes the citizens will be distracted from the  serious issues facing county residents.  Funny how conservatives (and I am sure most of the BOCS would proudly label themselves this nomenclature.) want small, non-invasive government that wants into every part of your personal life.  BOCS, stay out of a woman’s uterous.

To download and read  the entire Feet in the Stirrups Resolution click on the blue.

News and Messenger article

Elena

&

Moon-Howler

84 Thoughts to “Beware of John’s “Feet in the Stirrups” Resolution”

  1. Elena

    Not me Bubba,
    Don’t get me started on the health of our maternity care in this country. Our c/s rate is an epidemic, over 30%. The complications from c/s are numerous AND also deadly! Having fought to have a natural birth after my first c/s delivery, once you actually learn all the information, you see why insurance companies and doctors push for the most medical intervention possible.

  2. I said I would never post on here again, but here I go. You want to make a difference here?

    A. Write your supervisor.
    B. Go to the meeting on October 26.
    C. Vote the bastards out at the next electon.

    If you don’t want to do any of these, then you should quit chipping your teeth. Words without action don’t mean s@$t. My e-mail to Marty Nohe is on its way. And I sure as hell won’t vote for him.

  3. Elena

    George,
    You are correct, e-maills at a bare minimum, are necessary to all the Supervisors!

  4. Elena

    Here is the letter I sent:

    Dear Supervisors,

    I am wondering why this Board would be willing to insert itself into such a heated issue that does NOT concern Prince William County at all. We have no clinics within the jurisdiction of Prince William County. You all are elected to serve the local issues in this county, period.

    I was very disheartened when Supervisor Stirrup used his positon as Supervisor to rail against President Obama’s stimulus money as it related to schools. It is completely inappropriate to travel beyond the bounds of what is expected or our local board. Please, don’t MIS-use your position as Supervisor.

    If you want to have an impact on curtailing unwanted pregancy, implement real comprehensive sex ed in schools, THAT is where you can have an impact. Vote no on Supervisors Stirrup resolution. Maybe it is time for him to run for a state or national office if he continues to feel so compelled to introduce such far reaching resolutions!

    Sincerely,
    Elena Schlossberg

    Here is all their e-mail addresses.

    http://www.pwcgov.org/default.aspx?topic=040050000940000442

  5. George sent a great letter.

    We have all the supervisor emails listed in the horizonal tabs at the top of the page. If you want them all to get the same email, do the group hit Elena listed.

  6. George S. Harris

    Here is the letter I sent to Marty Nohe:

    Dear Marty,

    I have read Supervisor Stirrup’s proposed resolution concerning regulation of abortion clinics and I keep asking myself, “Why is it that the Board of County Supervisors continues to insert itself into issues that are the business of the Commonwealth and the Federal government?” This is not why you and the other supervisors were elected. You were elected to conduct the business of Prince William County not to be attempting to insert yourself into the vaginas of women other than your wife. Nor were you elected to force your religious beliefs on the people of Prince William County.

    Ever since this Board was elected it has continued to pry into things that have nothing to do with the business of Prince William County. Does that not bother you? How would you feel to be on the receiving end of some of the decisions you and other supervisors have made? You were not elected to be the conscious of the county.

    I hope that you will consider carefully before you decide to support Supervisor Stirrup and his cockamamie proposal. Remember, there will be another November coming.

    Sincerely,

    George Harris

  7. Lafayette

    Great letter George!!

  8. PWC Taxpayer

    So what I am hearing here is two things; first that a woman’s right to abortion is absolute and beyoned oversight, licensing, zoning or consideration of the father’s rights and, second, that the BOCS cannot and should not reflect or assert any community values, restrict zoning to reflect those values or petition the State for more direct medical oversight and licensing. Is that right?

    [Sort of…but I wouldn’t put it that way, exactly. MH]

    I am not convinced that the Supreme Court has said that the right to abortion is absolute.

    [It hasn’t said that. Read Roe vs Wade for clarification. MH]

    Your letters expressing your views are certainly your right, but at least the BOCS have publically offerred their view and are being honorable in taking the risk of stating that view. You may not like their view and may be angry that significant numbers of voters disagree with your view – as demonstrated through elections, but at least they took a public stand. Which returns me to the origional point – that suggests that a community should no longer have a right to express its values through oversight, licensing and zoning. That it seems to me is a very slippery slope and a problem for all of us.

    [There are no clinics in PWC. Abortion oversight (sic) has nothing to do with PWC. They haven’t voted yet. You sure don’t recognize political grandstanding when you see it, do you? MH]

  9. Elena

    If they want to get involved in politics outside of specific local issues, then run for state or national seat.

    Abortion, for adult competent woman, is absolute in the first trimester. Even for underage women, if they can prove fear of consequences from a custodial figure in states where there are restrictions, they can get an abortion.

    First of all, ANY citizen can express their view, it is MIS using their bully pulpit for their conservative ideological views that is so offensive.

    People have very diverse views on this topic, I can understand that and am certainly not angry. I have girlfriends who acutally HAD abortions when they were young women and now have suddenly decided that abortion for OTHER women is wrong now that THEY are married adult women. I find that VERY hypocritical.

  10. Not Me, Bubba

    You know….the constant volleying on the subject of a ‘father’s right” concerning pregnancy seems to keep popping up here…..and from only one perspective…that of a man who ABSOLUTELY wants his partner to keep the pregnancy…

    BUT….

    Should a man’s stance be given EQUAL weight if A) He demands she have an abortion or if B) He agrees with her choice to have an abortion???? If a “man’s right” is so paramount then a man would be the one making the choice, NOT the person who is ACTUALLY pregnant. YOu cannot have it both ways where a man can insit a woman come to full term without also permitting a man demanding his partner abort….if a man is to have “equal say”

    In addition, the views of the community are fully within their rights to be heard. HOWEVER, when that voice uses itself to deny a population of said community to a guaranteed right, the views become oppressive and maligned if adopted.

    And Elena…the double standard does not end at your friends…there are PLENTY of “pro-life” women and mothers who take themselves or their daughters to clinics to have abortions. Their view is that their abortion is moral, whereas anyone else’s is IMmoral. I have read plenty of accounts whereby clinic protesters get abortions one day and return to the picket lines a week later. In addition, I was pro-choice before I had children….I am even MORE pro-choice now after having children. It’s not a flippant and easy-going occupation to be a mother. Frankly, if one is against abortion, they do not ever have to get one. Unless they plan on adopting, raising and supporting all these precious “baybeez” then they should butt out and let a privae matter reamin a private matter between a woman, her conscience and her physician.

    1. @Not Me, Bubba

      Totally and completely agree 200000%, Bubba. Again, you hit a homerun out of the ballpark.

      I especially agree with you about being more pro-choice after having children, and I will throw in that having a daughter made me more so.

  11. Not Me, Bubba

    While having a daughter made you even moreso, haing two sons had four times the impact on me. Like the men here have stated – they do not get a say in what the outcome of a pregnancy will be. SO…unless they are prepared to become fathers at a very young age they had better take care to protect themselves (hey…AIDS is a very real threat too and isn’t going away anytime soon) AND protect their girlfriends as well from becoming a parent prematurely…or from having to go through the ordeal of a termination. In the eyes of the state, the state doesn’t care WHO is named father on a birth certificate. They just want a NAME upon which to place paternity so that THEY do not pay child support. That is a very tough burden to haul for a teenage boy. Abstinence or birth control are the ONLY two options a boy/man has a say in. So he had better take them seriously lest he wind up with a disease or with a paternity suit.

    On another note, secondary to that of men haing no choice, one of my children has some special needs….he has a brain condition called hydrocephalus. He has had neurosurgery and needs speech and occupational services. He also has some behavioral issues because of his condition. You never know what will be thrown at you in life – especially with your children – and I doubt a young mother…or even a single parent could have gone through what my husband and I have been though with our eldest. You either embrace parenthood or you reject it – for once the child is born you are solely responsible for its welfare…in good times and in bad. To force unprepared or unwilling women to go through that is not only unjust it is inhumane for all parties involved.

  12. “Men have a simple task if they want to end abortion. Keep their flies up”

    “Women have a simple task if they want to end abortion. Just say no.”

    See what I did there? I met flippancy with flippancy. However, both statements ARE TRUE.

    And I still haven’t seen that men have any rights at all under the current situation. There are two people having sex. Unfortunately, only one can get pregnant. Therefore, according to current ethos, the woman has all of the rights because its her body. No man, or anyone, has a right to demand that said woman have the baby.

    However, said woman can demand that the father of the child support said child, whether he wanted the baby or not, or even if the mother had told him that she was aborting, or on birth control. Some men have had to continue to support children that they discovered was not theirs; but, that’s a different story. (I’m not saying that men should not support their children, whatever the situation. I’m presenting another argument. All parents have a responsibility to support their children.)

    Either children are minors under the authority and supervision and responsibility of their parents or they are not. I find it astounding that daughters can get major medical operations without their parents consent or knowledge. In any other case, to deprive the parents of that authority requires jumping through social worker and court case hoops. That said child would not be allowed to carry aspirin to school, and said authorities could not dispense it without parental knowledge. But they can get abortions; operations that can cause physical, mental, and emotional trauma. And the parents have to pick up the pieces.

    If my daughter became pregnant as a minor, I would vehemently disapprove. But, I would also want to be involved in any decisions, as would her mother. AS IS OUR RIGHTS AS HER PARENTS.

    I do understand that many women do not want abortion outlawed again. I understand their reasons. I was reacting to the simple statement that abortions could end by men “keeping their flies up.” It was insulting. The attitude that I’ve seen in the arguments presented here deny men any rights or even value in the question of pregnancy. Then it is implied that it is only because of men unable to control their “urges” that women need to have abortions.

    And all of this because of bill to actually make abortions safer. It is this blog that decries that abortions should not be back-alley butchery. Other serious invasive medical practices demand strict medical requirements. Shouldn’t you be for increased safety?

    Yes, I know, the evil Cuccinelli is behind this to stop abortions. Except I’ve seen similar proposals in California, Louisiana, etc. And its always those that make the most money off of the abortion industry in America that fights it the hardest. If we must have them, make them follow surgical guidelines, since, abortion should only end one life.

  13. Elena

    Cargo,
    How does this bill make it safer? Do you REALLY think that Cuccinelli is in this to keep women safe or to stop abortions. Le’ts be real, this is about making access to abortion more and more difficult.

  14. Elena

    Cargo,
    I suggest if you are really concerned about the health and well being of women, especially as it relates to pregnancy and birth, advocate for better more accesible health care and comprehensive choices like trained midwives to support women.

    http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/usa-urged-confront-shocking-maternal-mortality-rate-2010-03-12

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20427256/

    http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2006/9/1/91707.shtml

  15. Actually, I like the idea of more midwives. That’s a good idea.

  16. Not Me, Bubba

    @cargosquid

    “Men have a simple task if they want to end abortion. Keep their flies up”

    “Women have a simple task if they want to end abortion. Just say no.”

    See what I did there? I met flippancy with flippancy. However, both statements ARE TRUE.

    ….

    YES they are. However since sexuality is also INGRAINED in our psyches as well as physical selves; to tell grown adults to “not do it” is telling them how to live their lives. And like I stated earlier birth control is not 100% effective 100% of the time. Lastly I would like to emphasize to everyone…while sex may lead to pregnancy – CONSENT TO SEX DOES NOT EQUAL CONSENT TO PREGNANCY. While a woman may have sex with someone she is not necessarily consenting to pregnancy…SAME FOR MEN….men may consent to sex but NOT to PARENTHOOD. EACH TIME you have had sex in your life were you trying to make babies?

    “However, said woman can demand that the father of the child support said child, whether he wanted the baby or not, or even if the mother had told him that she was aborting, or on birth control. Some men have had to continue to support children that they discovered was not theirs; but, that’s a different story.”

    Don;t blame women, blame the STATE. The state mandates that paternity be sought – NOT PROVEN for men to financially support children. If you don’t like that, tell your representatives in government that it should be changed.

    “Either children are minors under the authority and supervision and responsibility of their parents or they are not. I find it astounding that daughters can get major medical operations without their parents consent or knowledge. In any other case, to deprive the parents of that authority requires jumping through social worker and court case hoops. That said child would not be allowed to carry aspirin to school, and said authorities could not dispense it without parental knowledge. But they can get abortions; operations that can cause physical, mental, and emotional trauma. And the parents have to pick up the pieces.”

    Well, did the kiddies ask to have a major life event like having SEX? Did ma and pa KNOW little Johnny and Suzie were playing hide the salami in the basement rec room? FWIW, I think it is absurd kids cannot take asprin in schools. You have a headache, you take asprin. However for you to say that abortions would lead to physical, mental and emotional trauma…for young girls…WOULDN’T PREGNANCY AS WELL????? Wouldn’t teen pregnancy be a SHAME in school? WOuldn’t it cause people to talk and make her a social outcast? I would think that a teenage girl – who is in the MOST UNLIKELY POSITION to have, support and raise a baby would know this all on her own and have the faculty to decide for herself just what exactly she would want to do on her own. In nearly most cases like this girls DO talk to their parents…but for those who have abusive parents, or parents who would insist they have a baby…who are they to determine her whole future against her will?

    “If my daughter became pregnant as a minor, I would vehemently disapprove. But, I would also want to be involved in any decisions, as would her mother. AS IS OUR RIGHTS AS HER PARENTS.”

    YOur rights end as parents where her bodily autonomy begins. I would stongly be PO’d if one of my sons came home saying he was going to be a father at the age of say…fifteen. But since he chose to have sex, knew about all the potential outcomes, I would tell him that his future now rested upon his lover’s decision… If I had a daughter, I would again be extremely upset by a pregnancy, but would NOT impede her from making a decision that would be best for her…be it abortion or having it. If our kids are going to act like adults and have sex, then they need to face up to the fact that in doing so they accept the potential outcomes of their actions THEMSELVES.

    “I was reacting to the simple statement that abortions could end by men “keeping their flies up.””

    I would never say that, for it takes TWO to tango. Abortions could be greatly reduced if more teens were educated in birth control, pregnancy AND possible diseases out there. An educated child grows up to be an educated adult. Abstinence is 100% effective, but people LIKE SEX and will have it. Teens know this most of all.

    “And all of this because of bill to actually make abortions safer. It is this blog that decries that abortions should not be back-alley butchery. Other serious invasive medical practices demand strict medical requirements. Shouldn’t you be for increased safety? ”

    The regulations regarding abortion for 1st trimester abortions in teh state of VA are SO STRICT that clinics and physicians make sure that their places of work are up to code always and that the BEST medical care is always given. The scrutiny they are under all the time makes lax practices IMPOSSIBLE for them. There is a 24 hour waiting period in VA, women are mandated to be given anti-abortion literature before an abortion, women are told that abortion causes breast cancer (a lie, considering it has been denied countless times by the American Cancer Society), women are mandated to undergo an ultrasound before the procedure that they MUST view to try and sway them from their choice. The hurdles to get an abortion in VA are so many that this bill would add another level of inaccessibility for women to get a safe, LEGAL abortion. I would hope that if this passes and clinics must be located so far from a hospital and that their clinics must be set up like outpatient surgical centers that it will make EVERY physicians office who does ANY invasive work – regardless of their speciality – follow this rule. Dental surgeons, plastic surgery, LASIK, Dermatology, Gastroenterology, basically ANY practice whereby a surgical procedure is performed – no matter HOW SMALL. Afterall…it is about patient safety, no? Or is it about some lofty, pseudo-moralistic people who don’t think that women are capable of making their own decisions in regards to child bearing?

    “And its always those that make the most money off of the abortion industry in America that fights it the hardest. If we must have them, make them follow surgical guidelines, since, abortion should only end one life.”

    Ah the old “abortion industry makes so much money” line….Considering my two births cost $17,000 (a total of 34K) for JUST delivery and another 12K for prenatal care my MD made one hell of a lot more money from my pregnancy than did the MD who did my abortion in 1995 for the sum of $350. YOu do the math and tell me which was MORE profitable. And then let’s not forget the cut the pediatricians make once the kids are born….there is a lot more money to be made in BORN people than in the ones who were NOT born. It’s always the anti-choice people who trivialize the need for abortion and a woman’s well being for getting one.

    And FYI – Safe, legal abortion saves the life of the mother. Illegal abortion kills a woman AND her fetus. Do not get them confused.

  17. Cargo, it is not more insulting than telling women to keep their legs together, which I have heard many many times as a solution to not getting pregnant. And really, both cut to the chase. And don’t take it personally. It is a general statement.

    I have been at this many years and it is tiresome. If people don’t like abortion, don’t have one. That cuts to the chase also. Year and years of the SOS.

    I already said that Virginia is a parental notification/consent state. Frankly, I don’t think parents should have the right to say a child can’t have an abortion. Conversely, I don’t feel they have a right to force the decision TO have an abortion on an unwilling child. Notification is another matter. I believe pregnancy is a unique condition and should not be compared to anything else.

    As for bad child support situations–perhaps it needs to be discussed under a different topic. Same reason. It has nothing to do with abortion.

    The rights men have regarding pregnancy are those that have been given to them by their women. It really can’t exist any other way.

    And I am a strident bitch on this subject. I am old enough that I have seen both sides of the fence. My husband has 2 aunts who didn’t speak to each other for the rest of their lives over this issue. I have lived in a time where most of my life was controlled by the fact that I could get pregnant. Education, social rules, jobs, potential jobs, all were based on that one little biological hitch.

    I went to high school with girls who disappeared. I also went to school with girls who simply dropped out of school. Their educations were halted at 9th grade or something absurd like that. They were basically expelled. I also went to school with girls who never got to hold their babies after they were born. They never saw them and the records were sealed. That was their punishment for not keeping their legs together. (direct quote I am sure)

    It just goes on and on. Why should I think all that is cool and that now someone who doesn’t even know me should start making decisions for me and mine? You know what old Charlton Heston said about his gun? Wellll…….that’s sorta how I feel but it isn’t my gun.

  18. I left out one thing…too many men simply want to score without assuming any of the responsibility of prevention not only of pregnancy but also disease. They socially reward each other my a strong show of approval to those who behave that way, regardless of what they think privately.

    This approval is obvious. There is all sorts of knuckle dragging and fist knocking over he who scores.

    Somehow scoring, manhood and parenthood are never really connected in the minds of some of the man-children. Are all men like this? NO. Of course not. And I do apologize if I left the impression that I thought this about all men.

  19. Elena

    Cargo,
    Are you pleading “uncle” yet 😉

  20. Lafayette

    Good for John Jenkins and Frank Pincipi for abstaining from the vote. John Stirrup did make a couple of points I’d not thought of. They did make me stop and think for a minute, but I still believe our BoS has NO business moving forward with their “letter”.

    I’m sick of hearing Wally making plugs for sewer in rural crescent. Please, Wally we all know that you want sewer out there.

  21. Most of what John Stirrup said was a lie based on anti abortion rhetoric. Clinics are not unregulated any more than a dentist office is unregulated. They jump through all the OSHA hoops that any other medical clinic does. There is no proven link between breast cancer and abortion. That myth was laid to rest almost 20 years ago. It is irresponsible to make such a statement.

    I can’t stand to see someone sitting up there on the dais spouting misinformation and then having the others, except for Mr. Jenkins and Mr. Principi, up there buying his crap. They collectively do not know enough to even be voting. Furthermore, they were not elected to get involved in the abortion debate.

    Sewer facilities? Well perhaps. Actually everything he said was pure crap, although I am sure that isn’t what Covington meant.

    And PWC isn’t the feeding groups for the Manassas Clinic. Many women come from other rural localities in Virginia because there are so few providers. Going south, the next clinic is Charlottesville, unless a new one has crept in there. Going west, I expect Harrisonburg is next place you might find an abortion provider.

    I guess now every politician, down to the local dog catcher is going to now have to pass the pro choice test. What a shame that even local government can’t be free of the emotional wedge issues. The standard has been raised.

    BOCS, get YOUR job that you were elected to do right before you start on loftier goals.

    Mr. Jenkins and Mr. Principi are to be commended for abstaining from voting on a matter that has nothing to do with them.

  22. It isn’t concern for women’s health that is motivating this stupidity. It is simply another attempt to make abortion more difficult to obtain. If I thought any of the measures that might arise out of the Cuccinelli abortion regulations would make for a better medical environment or would or would improve patient safety I would be all for it. However, that isn’t what this is all about. The size of the hallways is significant.

    Again, let’s work on that pregnancy prevention. Preventing pregnancy stops abortion. That initiative I can support.

  23. @Elena
    Nope. I may disagree with you, but, that doesn’t mean I’m wrong. Just that we disagree. Today’s world has both men and women behaving promiscuously. My reason for responding was because of the “flies” comment. I feel that since two people have sex, it is both their responsibilities and both have equal rights. If one feels that the woman has more rights than the man, then, she should have commensurate responsibilities.

  24. Elena

    Cargo,
    I like your tenacity, even if you are wrong 😉

  25. Elena

    Moon,
    If this stupid resolution were REALLY about womens health, then why on earth did they support Cuccinelli’s endeavor to fight the health care reform? Do the board members that voted with their ideology instead of the facts KNOW that the women MOST at risk for maternal mortality are the least likey to have access to health care??????????????? Now that these 6 supervisors have made clear their concern for women’s health, they better put their money where their vote was, into health care services for women and start fully supporting people buying into medicare. To do anything else would bear out each and every single supervisors blatent hypocrisy.

  26. Elena,

    Because the Health Care reform is not about improving health care. Its about control. The HCR bill doesn’t improve health care if the new system kills the insurance products that women may need. Reform is necessary. That travesty that Congress passed is not it. Pull it out by its roots and start over. This time do it in public, with doctors, nurses, patient’s advocates, and insurance companies involved. No lawyers.

  27. I said the flies comment, not Elena. Surely Cargo, you cannot deny, that there are plenty of men out there who are totally irresponsible and who pride themselves on scoring?

    I never said ALL men.

    First off, let’s say there were ‘biological father rights.’ How do we seperate the good guys from the bad guys? Hopefully this works the way it should…and the women give the good guys rights and the bad guys get kicked to the curb. (I know, that often isn’t how it is in reality.)

    My wish would be that men stopped back slapping their friends and let their peers know that the behavior is unacceptable. They need to put a little pressure on their friends.

    Cargo, you are free to be angry at me over my statements but I have lived on this earth long enough to see enough women (and their children) be victimized by some real dirt bag men. There are dirt bag women also. Perhaps we can cover them another day.

  28. I know that it was from you, Moon. Didn’t mean to imply that Elena said it, just that I was replying to it.

    And can you deny that there are plenty of women that don’t care and sleep around and are as bad as those men? (OK, just saw your second to last sentence.) Its a new world even for me and I was a sailor looking for wimmen! But I was a few years too late, darn it.

    I’m not angry, just pointing out that there appeared to be a double standard. Did you notice that I never argued the idea that abortion should be illegal? I decided that fighting that battle was a lost cause here. In fact, I don’t think that I’ve ever argued to outlaw it. I know that doing so here is useless.

    1. @Cargo, I just wanted to own up to my own miscreatism. Is there such a word?

      I don’t think it is a double standard. I think it is biological differences in men and women. It’s an area where the playing field will never be level, regardless of how you look at it.

      Of course there are promiscuous women. They don’t call it the world’s oldest profession for nothin’. Seriously, I believe there is much more promiscuity in the world of men than there is the world of women. I site biological examples, political observations, and people I have known.

      Starting with biology, most scientists believe that the male of the species goes for sheer number to instill the mortality of his species. Females look for the male that offers the most protection so her young will survive to continue the species. Makes sense to me.

      How many political ladies have been caught with their proverbial pants down? (crickets)

      You get the drift. Women can be irresponsible, abuse drugs, neglect their children, abuse their children, and sexually abuse their children. However, the ratio of crude balls just isnt the same. And when women behave like that, their own gender turns on them like snakes. Rattle snakes. Generally the first person to go after them is their own mother, then the sisters, then the friends. Most women like that have few friends. T.hey have become pariah

  29. The world’s oldest profession is begging. Someone had to ask for it.

  30. Elena

    The reality is Cargo that health care for those living right above the poverty level is unavailable. The US ranks 40th in industrialized nations in maternal mortality!!!!!! Who tends to the be the most vulnerable for death, women with little access to health care! The health care bill addresses that very group to allow them to buy into medicaid. WHAT is your solution?????

  31. Elena

    BTW, there is not such thing as “commensurate” reponsiblity when it comes to pregnancy and birth. Until men can get pregnant and give birth, equality is impossible.

Comments are closed.