Post election open thread–thank goodness! No more election commercials. Fimian is giving his good night speech. It is/was a very close race. Will there be a recount? Did he concede? Not really.
Fimian thanked Corey personally. Hmmmmm…is Corey Fimian’s new bff?
I expect there will be a post mortum. I would be interested to hear what ideas people have rather than what they hate.
Connolly is in the lead but not by much.
@So Slow, there is absolutely nothing you like about the health care plan? How about the pre-existing condition clause?
How about being able to keep your kid on until age 26? (like if they graduate and don’t have a job or the job doesn’t have benefits?)
My point Moe. You said it well. Obama kicked butt in 2008 and people stayed home this time because many felt like Obama had sold out and had done little to defend his agenda and legislative accomplishments. He showed little pride, along with is democratic bretheren. THe republicans do a FABULOUS job of sound bites and always look they are having WAY more fun than the Dems.
WHAT are the solutions to health care et al by Republicans? Is it this free market and shrink government fairy tale?
I recall the story recently of the man who did not pay the county’s fire and rescue bill of 75 bucks. You know what happened when his house caught on fire? NOTHING, he didn’t pay the bill and so the house burned to a crisp. Republicans and TEA party members want govt to shrink and allow the free market with little regulation to rule, I shudder to think what that means if it is put into practice. No social security, no medicare, no medicaid, banks will police themselves. I say, if Republicans don’t want health care to be regulated, they want to repeal the health care reform bill, fine, I dare them to do it. But in its place, how about really letting free market reign.
If you don’t have health care, and you get sick, unless you can demonstrate that you can pay your bill fully, you should be denied care. A large part of what increases our health care costs are paying for those who cannot pay for themselves and leave US their bills to subsidize. So the Repub’s really want to repeal that mandate, fine, put in its place some other way to protect the consumer who does have health care. Oh, and for those who live a hair above poverty and don’t qualify for medicaid, but their children do, who will care for those children when their parents can’t pay to get well?
The reality is that when people are sick they will ALWAYS seek medical attention, NO ONE will EVER, in the right frame of mind, CHOOSE to die if they could live.
These laissez fair free market principles are fine until real people bear the brunt of the consequences.
http://www.truecrimereport.com/2010/10/gene_cranicks_house_burns_down.php
Cindy, thanks for the link. If I were home, I would embed it as a thread. Maybe tomorrow, when I get back to real internet rather than fake internet.
Corey obviously has no shame or he couldn’t continue to lie. He is simply full of crap.
@Slowpoke Rodriguez or “put lipstick on a pig.”
… is just down the road from the John Ensign, Dick Morris, Larry Craig, David Vitter, Mark Sanford, Newt Gingrich, Rush Limbaugh, and Ted Haggard Family Values Whorehouse and Turkish Bathes.
Up until recently, Democrats never looked like they were having less fun than Republicans.
—and across the street from the John Edwards, Ted Kennedy, Eliot Spitzer, Jesse Jackson, James McGreevey and Gary Condit Marriage Counseling clinic.
@Moe,
Apparently you and I are the only people who remember the Dick Morris ‘affair.’ He is Mr. Wonderful on Faux News.
Pre-existing conditions are fine, I don’t know about the 26 thing…..it sounds OK, and I don’t think it should cause an undue burden on insurance companies. It’s paid for (or not paid for) all wrong. They made darn sure the bottom-feeding lawyers could still run away with all the money, forcing us all to pay more. I don’t even have a problem with insurance covering abortion, if it’s medically necessary or rape, but not because someone couldn’t keep their legs closed. Also, you should be able to describe health care reform without creating as many agencies as there was people at the Stewart event (gozillions), and in fewer pages than the Encyclopedia Britannica.
Whenever I see that hypocritical bag of wind on Faux two words come to mind: “hooker toes” … which most people know you don’t put in your mouth.
@Elena
The flaw in your story is that the ‘free market’ didn’t allow that home to burn down – the government did. Those weren’t AIG Firefighters. They were City Firefighters that provide services to City residents because of tax revenues and to County residents that pay for the service.
A child is not a child at the age of 26. S/he’s an adult. They become adults at 18. They might be your child forever but to an insurance company they should be treated as an adult. If you want to ‘add’ that person to your policy if the insurance company allows it – the charge for the addition should be like any other adult.
Using your hypothesis, why do people stop being treated as adults when they reach 65?
STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My sides are hurting from laughing 😉
@Slow,
It sounded like we could agree on things until you started the ‘keeping her legs together’ thing. What about cutting off the ….oh never mind. How did those legs get apart? Was anyone else involved or was it parthenogensis?
As for abortion, I don’t particularly care that abortion isn’t part of some of the health care program. Now if I am paying for my own policy out of pocket, I would expect that. However, if I am ‘subsidized’ then …maybe not.
Marin, kids can stay on your policy now until age 22, some even higher. It isn’t free. The parent pays for it. You can’t just add non relatives to a policy. The employer won’t allow it and the insurance company won’t allow it.
Many younger people have jobs that don’t have benefits. This is just a safety net.
MH, my company allows ‘kids’ upto 25 and now this year that’s being shifted to 26.
Think about that. Company A is subsudizing Company B because Company B doesn’t want to or can’t afford healthcare and then the adult instead of going into the competative market to buy coverage simply tags along someone elses policy. Doesn’t this seem counter to Company A’s best interests?
If Company B doesn’t provide healthcare and other companies are willing to do so won’t Company B fail after awhile because labor will move to those companies? Why should Company B be able to continue to operate in a competative system? Heck, even Starbucks and McDonalds offer some benefits. They might not be gold plated Union plans but you get the basics covered.
MD, because the government takes care of things………..
Any objection from the peanut gallery on something like this?
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204251404574342170072865070.html
I like the idea of high deductable ‘affordable’ plans for emergencies. I think we’ve covered Mr. Mackey’s suggestions before but the above link is good material for those that weren’t around.
Never taste a rental.
I usually watch evening news with my daughter. Once in a while we catch a glimpse of Dick Morris and my regular comment is: “Oh no, not the toe sucker!” I can’t understand how that guy can command any respect whatever.
FOX also has a commercial abt gold featuring J. Gordon Liddy. Yes, THE J. Gordon Liddy who served four and a half years in prison for his role in the Watergate burglary. – Ah, how quickly we forget.
Good, then let’s get rid of social security and medicare taxes too.
@Slowpoke,
Not that it has anything to do with anything but regarding polishing a turd, you need to see Mythbusters episode 113.
MH, I too remember the Dick Morris “affair”, but personally, I found the Wilbur Mills incident more amusing.
Divided government … beats having either of our “major” parties in full control.
The funny thing about Morris is that he had the hooker on the phone listening while he strategized with Clinton … THAT’s why he was “let go” so quickly, genuine anger by Bill and Hillary. And his pathological anger towards the Clintons is fueled by knowledge that BILL was conversing with members of Congress later WHILE MONICA HAD A MOUTHFUL.
marin – a very good article, although the states may not want to give up the right to regulate their insurance companies. Now, can I ask, why have we all failed in HC Reform?, Just like SS Reform, we have been talking about it for 20-30 years, and yet we have accomplished very little. What have we done to shore up SS since Reagan increased the retirement age?
Marinm,
You have proved my point actually. The fire protection “fee” was voluntary, the county govt had opted out of a group plan and instead wanted to save money. Each home owner was responsible for paying the fee, and if not, you “opted” out of fire and rescue.
Now, the question is did people not pay because they chose not to or because they were that stretched for funds and decided to take the risk. I would suggest here that my point regarding health care requirements is EXCACTLY the same. People either choose because they can’t afford it of believe they will not need health insurance. However, the reality is that insurance is needed because you CANNOT predict the unpredictable.
Had this county simply included the fee in its property taxes, this mans’ house, along with his pets and all his personal belongings, would have had a chance. The neighbor next door who paid their fee had protection but he fire dept was unwilling to give their services for free, I mean, what kind of precedent would THAT send, then EVERYONE would want something for nothing and reap the rewards of those who HAD paid.
Now, apply that logic to health insurance. For those of us who pay, we end up picking up the added cost of those who are not insured. People WILL not suffer when they are sick if immediate medical attention can save their lives.
Health insurance should NOT be a choice, because when people get sick they WILL seek help, just like the guy whose house burnt down. The difference is that in a civilized society, you cannot allow people to die because they don’t have health insurance….PERIOD!
Mom,
I saw that episode, what a hoot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You can polish a turd, who woulda thunk!
Marinm,
Very interesting article, much of which I can agree with. The deductible is less than what we pay for our annual health care plan. However, how do you get THAT plan to other people? I believe in personal responsibility, I make sure my family eats healthy that we spend more on good food because I believe in prevention.
The problem still is that too many people either can’t afford or choose not to have insurance. Without those people in the “pool” we all still pay for their care which increases our over all health care costs as a nation. Mr. Mackey does not address this problem.
I have a chronic illness, one that has nothing to do with what I do or do not eat. So personal responsibility only goes so far. Also, I was infected with a very serious tick disease, it could have killed me. I spent five days in the hospital and then out patient treatment for two weeks. I shudder to think what that bill cost. Probably 30 grand. There must be a way to morph both ideas, personal responisbility and acknowledgment of reality that many people, for various reasons, do not have health care.
@Pat.Herve
Pat, nothing. Instead of treating it as a lockbox (I hate the term but I think people get it) we treat it as an additional revenue source.
Elena, as you said; the homeowner assumed the risk by not paying his premium. He got burnt (pun intended!) on his risk calculation.
Have we looked into the reasons why costs have gone up? Has anyone done any research on to if costs went up when Congress mandated that all ERs would provide coverage regardless of ability to pay? Was our healthcare wound, self-inflicted?
I think some people don’t have healthcare because it’s not a priority to them (in response to #79). They’d rather buy a bigger TV or a nicer car. If your thinking in the moment the idea of planning for emergency medical care doesn’t come to mind and if it does people just figure that the govt will take care of it. We started the moral hazard and now we have to live with it (unless we take it away which to be honest isn’t going to happen)
I’ll be the first to say I don’t have an answer. But, I think we have to look at the root of the issue and causes and not just treat symptoms.
Marinm,
That is my point, people don’t think they will get sick. I wonder how many people would buy car insurance if they were not required. To me, its the same premise. Some schmuck doesn’t have car insurance and runs into me, I have to use my insurance and then MY premium increases. To me, that is NO difference than requiring people have health insurance.
Look, I am all for change too, more freedom with health care. I saved my insurance company ten thousand dollars by having a home birth with a midwife. But I had to FIGHT tooth and nail to have the measly three thousand dollars freakin’ money reimbursed to me, WHY was that?! Why did I not HAVE a choice in whom to choose as my birth provider? I was willing to put the cost out front, why should I have to fight so hard to SAVE them money?
Marin,,
Are you suggesting that people should be turned away and allowed to die if they do not have health care coverage?
Elena, change the above to ‘ability to pay for services’ and my answer is yes.
I have no issue with the govt mandating true emergency care to stabalize a person. However, that’s been stretched to ‘see everyone in the ER to make sure they’re not an emergency’ so the hospital doesn’t get sued into bankcruptcy.
There is no easy answer to all of this. But, something that we have to accept when we ‘fix’ the system is that the system isn’t the only thing that needs to be fixed but also the people that use (and abuse) the system.
Off the thread I’d like to ask you something. I’ll email Moon to have her give you my email address.
Do you mean if they “do have the ability to pay for services” they should be turned away and left for dead”
Part of the health care problem is that people wait, BECAUSE they do not have health care coverage, to seek proper medical intervention. This is a holisitic problem, one that has no easy fix for sure. It will require people being more pro active in their own health and that is something you cannot mandate.
Moon this is for you as we approach the land of a thousand bull dances: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gog4RR41sV4
I think everybody who can pay should pay and then pay again for those who can’t without limitations. It should be done by the government since your protection from crime, the protection of your personal property, your access to health care and even to basic retirement is a Government obligation. A $1million dollar house should get the same protection as a $10,000 house – and BTW why is the Government not responsible for the contents of the house if it is responsible for the protection of the house. I cannot imagine using income as a surrogate for how much health care or retirement I am entitled to. I want it all and I want it all on the government’s dime through taxes. Which reminds me, the best part is the unions that drive their companies into bankruptcy with benefit demands, spend millions on political influence and then shift their pensions over to the taxpayer. France anyone?
we are sure to get far with partisanship like this – NBC’s Ken Strickland reports, McConnell will defend his statement that defeating President Obama in 2012 is his top priority It could very well backfire on McConnell.
That’s a dumb statement. I’m surprised he’s doubling down on that.
@Cato the Elder
Why Thank you, Cato. I rather like the bulls running today. You have to ask yourself why people are dumb enough to run with those bulls in Spain.
I’ll have to take a loss on my previous predictions on the Euro. (Thankfully I don’t do FOREX, so it’s just a loss of reputation and not real money.) We didn’t expect anything like QE2 which has nuked the dollar this week, with more to come depending on how much the Fed decides to ease. I sure hope the whisper numbers of $2 trillion aren’t true. $600 billion was bad enough. 3x that could lead to a Euro at 1.75.
I’m always very reluctant to claim I know better than some really smart guys at the Fed, but I just don’t get the logic of devaluing the dollar when the nation is a net IMPORTER. I fear all we’ve done is greatly expand the trade deficit as oil and other imports adjust to the weakened dollar. I don’t see our major exports having a high degree of elasticity so I’m not sure putting America on sale is going to boost the domestic economy anywhere what is needed.
(And the funny thing is that I’m sure there are some people who think that the rising equities market yesterday and today are good signs.)
@Pat.Herve
I have a real problem with that part of politics. McConnell seems to think that defeating the president is his only job. How about the ‘making the laws’ part of being in Congress?
This past election cycle reminded me of why I hate hate hate politics. The plotting, scheming and gotcha moments serve to remind us that we aren’t really that far from the being the warring lords in medieval times.
@marinm
That is unusual. Most companies don’t allow you to keep your kids on your policy that long. Mine had to come off at 22.
MH, the company wants to maintain a high level of talent and offers fairly generous medical benefits and some benefits are mandated because of the state where they’re based out of (Peoples Republik of Maryland).
But, yes. Odd. I’ve seen some companies go upto 24/25 if the ‘kid’ is in college but outside of that they’re off the policy.
I think I was 19 when I had my first health insurance policy working at good ol’ Best Buy. 😉
I know a lot of people that work for my present company that may earn more elsewhere but refuse to go because of our medical benefits.
MH,
It’ll get uglier. Think of HCR in terms of Prohibition. If HCR is overturned than how does BHO get recorded in the history books? He won’t let that happen. So, it’ll be an interesting time in terms of subpoenas and hearings on ‘how’ HCR was formulated. The defense of HCR (and getting -D’s to eat votes FOR it) that they’ll have to defend to the electorate on the next election cycle.
Bush Tax Cuts will get extended and give a positive victory to the new -R/-TPs but also show that the -D is interested in the middle class AND can work in a bipartisan manner. But, the win will be chaulked up to the new TP’rs.
I think we’ll give British Parlamint a run for it’s money for the next two years. 😉 I’m just gonna munch on my popcorn and play my fiddle. 🙂 🙂
Moon, didn’t you mention carjackings earlier on this thread? Looks like there’s one being investigated as I type this message. This is from Insidenova’s FB page.
InsideNoVA.com PWC police working a carjacking with passenger still in the car — happened in the area of Ashton Ave and Sudley Manor Drive
9 minutes ago · Comment ·LikeUnlike · View Feedback (1)Hide Feedback (1)
@Formerly Anonymous
I think one of the objectives is to break the Asia dollar peg, frankly.
Agreed, really poor choice of words. Replace with irresponsibility on anyone’s part. Actually, it was the least important sentence in the post.
@Slow
Ah…. but one that jumped out at me…..
You were not addressing me, but I must say: I’m suggesting that YOU pay for it, not me.
@Moon-howler
Understand totally!
@Slow, that’s what I like about you, despite our political differences.
But Slow, WE ARE paying for it NOW!
In the Republican Pledge, they promise to cut the budget $100B the first year without touching defense, veterans or seniors. That means $1 out of every $5 of what is not exempt from the budget ax has to be cut to keep the pledge. I wonder what the consequences are for our area, where so many work for the government, government contractors, or related businesses.
@Moe,
It sounds like bread lines for Northern Virginia to me.
Cato,
I can see where depegging might be an unspoken goal of QE2, but I’m not sure it will work. I’ve always thought that too many people look at China’s low currency as an international issue and worried about Chinese hegemony or something like that. My own personal view is that the dollar peg, at least for China, is a domestic issue for China. China needs to export goods to keep people working. Large scale unemployment would upset the social balance in China much more so than it does in Europe or America. I may be wrong, but I think China may weaken the dollar peg by emphasizing other currencies in the proverbial basket, but I don’t see a large scale move away from the dollar. I think the Chinese government is willing to loose a couple hundred billion dollars to maintain political stability.
Once again, I’m left hoping that I’m wrong and that the Fed knows what they are doing, because I see QE2 as doing real harm to our economy (rising fuel prices going into winter is going to take real money out of people’s pockets) while having negligible impact on exports. As for lowering long term interest rates to boost lending, consumers are deleveraging and companies are hoarding cash. I don’t see a major uptick in lending in the cards.
Thoughts?
Morris,
The GOP left themselves a little more wiggle room than that on their pledge. They pledged to cut $100 billion from the ten year CBO projections within the first year. So it will be more like $1 out of $50-55. And the sad part is that I’m still skeptical that they’ll do it. (Needless to say, $100 billion isn’t even a start in my book. We need to cut something like $5-7 trillion off the ten year CBO projections.)